Teaching vs. MSW / JD
January 10, 2011 8:20 PM Subscribe
Teaching certificate vs. MSW. Where can I be of more help?
I am currently two classes and student teaching short of completing this program in secondary Social Studies. I am considering switching to this MSW program, possibly combined with a J.D. Is this a horrible idea? I currently have a BA in Political Science.
Reasons I am considering the switch:
- I hate my program. Hate. The thought of spending another year to finish the MAT here makes me want to curl into a ball. I feel like it's nothing but busy work.
- I am unsure that I'll actually be able to find a job in my certification area.
- The general pay for an experienced teacher seems to be much less than I could make with either an MSW or MSW/JD.
- I feel like I could do more actual good for more people by taking the MSW route.
Am I totally misled? Would I just find myself a year into the MSW program and as miserable as I am now? Is there still a job market out there for MSWs? (I know there's not much of a market based on only the JD) I generally don't mind hard work / bureaucracy, but feel like I could be more helpful in a organizational / policy oriented position than actually as a teacher. Are those jobs out there? Is it worth getting the MSW if I don't really want to do clinical work? (That said, I would probably still take the three classes to have the dual concentration in MACO and clinical.)
I am currently two classes and student teaching short of completing this program in secondary Social Studies. I am considering switching to this MSW program, possibly combined with a J.D. Is this a horrible idea? I currently have a BA in Political Science.
Reasons I am considering the switch:
- I hate my program. Hate. The thought of spending another year to finish the MAT here makes me want to curl into a ball. I feel like it's nothing but busy work.
- I am unsure that I'll actually be able to find a job in my certification area.
- The general pay for an experienced teacher seems to be much less than I could make with either an MSW or MSW/JD.
- I feel like I could do more actual good for more people by taking the MSW route.
Am I totally misled? Would I just find myself a year into the MSW program and as miserable as I am now? Is there still a job market out there for MSWs? (I know there's not much of a market based on only the JD) I generally don't mind hard work / bureaucracy, but feel like I could be more helpful in a organizational / policy oriented position than actually as a teacher. Are those jobs out there? Is it worth getting the MSW if I don't really want to do clinical work? (That said, I would probably still take the three classes to have the dual concentration in MACO and clinical.)
FWIW...my fiancee is a social worker. She works for a very stable, hugely endowed foundation that primarily does foster care. This, as you know, is grueling emotional work. For her field specifically (and to some extent, social work in general), you interact with folks who have already made their way into the "system." Outcomes are marginal at best. You are reacting to a system that is to a large extent, broken. Nobody wants to spend money on a broken system which ensures it remains broken.
For her, the main reason she sees kids is because their day-to-day life and environment is unstable and lacking in many different ways. School is a refuge for almost all children, especially those with difficult home lives. There is always the hope of reaching people through education. You touch lives every day. Not just as an educator, but as a force for good. As someone who can provide stability, care, and hope for a future better than the present. Over time, and with a huge amount of patience, you become part of the community. You become part of the community's children. You become part of the community's future.
Where can you do more good? Hard to say. Hard to measure. I can tell you that my fiancee would see a fraction of the problem kids she sees if they had an educational experience that inspired them to pursue a different future than the one that pulls at them every day. Either way, I applaud your efforts and commitment. It's some of the hardest work on the planet. It's also some of the most needed. So thanks. Good luck.
posted by nickjadlowe at 8:44 PM on January 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
For her, the main reason she sees kids is because their day-to-day life and environment is unstable and lacking in many different ways. School is a refuge for almost all children, especially those with difficult home lives. There is always the hope of reaching people through education. You touch lives every day. Not just as an educator, but as a force for good. As someone who can provide stability, care, and hope for a future better than the present. Over time, and with a huge amount of patience, you become part of the community. You become part of the community's children. You become part of the community's future.
Where can you do more good? Hard to say. Hard to measure. I can tell you that my fiancee would see a fraction of the problem kids she sees if they had an educational experience that inspired them to pursue a different future than the one that pulls at them every day. Either way, I applaud your efforts and commitment. It's some of the hardest work on the planet. It's also some of the most needed. So thanks. Good luck.
posted by nickjadlowe at 8:44 PM on January 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
Are you good with groups of kids? Some people are, and some people aren't. I've spent a few years teaching, and what I found was that there are some really wonderful, caring teachers who work better one-on-one. Classroom teaching won't give you that opportunity. That's part of what made me decide to move into speech pathology.
Also, have you done your observation hours? How much time have you spent in schools? Could you shadow a teacher for a while? How about a social worker? (Sorry, I don't know shadow protocols for MSWs, but it helped me a lot for teaching.) Why don't you take a look up close and see which one works better for you?
posted by honeydew at 9:26 PM on January 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also, have you done your observation hours? How much time have you spent in schools? Could you shadow a teacher for a while? How about a social worker? (Sorry, I don't know shadow protocols for MSWs, but it helped me a lot for teaching.) Why don't you take a look up close and see which one works better for you?
posted by honeydew at 9:26 PM on January 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
I hate my program. Hate. The thought of spending another year to finish the MAT here makes me want to curl into a ball. I feel like it's nothing but busy work.
I'm not sure that an MSW program would be more satisfying and a JD would be expensive. Have you considered nursing?
posted by anniecat at 11:49 PM on January 10, 2011
I'm not sure that an MSW program would be more satisfying and a JD would be expensive. Have you considered nursing?
posted by anniecat at 11:49 PM on January 10, 2011
An MSW is a very versatile degree, significantly more versatile than a teaching degree.
posted by OmieWise at 4:59 AM on January 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by OmieWise at 4:59 AM on January 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
It sort of sounds like you're not sure what you want to do with your degrees other than help people. So, I would do whatever you can to get a degree as cheaply as possible, then start getting experience to try and figure that out. A JD is very, very expensive and if that means you're going to have a MSW and JD with $150K in debt, you're not going to be very useful to anyone, and you aren't going to make enough money to repay that debt trying to help people. If you can get scholarships/assistance that isn't loans to help out, then go for it.
Alternately, have you considered just stopping school and trying to find a job with the degree you have? Or at least looking at jobs for the kinds of things you think you might like and determining what degrees they would like you to have?
FWIW, you ask "where can I be more help", and I think that teachers are on the direct lines of impacting students, and if you're a good teacher, there is no one who can more positively impact kids. I have family who are teachers with Masters degrees in their subject areas, and they make what I consider to be very good money.
posted by dpx.mfx at 5:38 AM on January 11, 2011
Alternately, have you considered just stopping school and trying to find a job with the degree you have? Or at least looking at jobs for the kinds of things you think you might like and determining what degrees they would like you to have?
FWIW, you ask "where can I be more help", and I think that teachers are on the direct lines of impacting students, and if you're a good teacher, there is no one who can more positively impact kids. I have family who are teachers with Masters degrees in their subject areas, and they make what I consider to be very good money.
posted by dpx.mfx at 5:38 AM on January 11, 2011
Seconding Omiewise. You don't necessarily have to go into direct practice with an MSW. The program that you link to seems to focus on management and administration, which was also the focus of my MSW. I ended up working in the area of fundraising (database and budget management, prospect research) and have worked for several highly regarded organization. Not that it's fair, but I make much more that I would if I were working directly with clients (with maybe the exception of LCSWs who have their own practice), and I don't have the same sort of intense emotional wrangling that comes with that.
Although I haven't looked for a job in five years, I've been pretty fortunate in the job arena. During my last two job searches, I felt I was able to be picky about who I wanted to work for, and ended up having to decide between two job offers. I know that many charities and organization have been hurting since the economic downturn, but at least in NYC, everyone I know has kept their job, and I hear about job openings regularly. YMMV in your neck of the woods.
posted by kimdog at 7:04 AM on January 11, 2011
Although I haven't looked for a job in five years, I've been pretty fortunate in the job arena. During my last two job searches, I felt I was able to be picky about who I wanted to work for, and ended up having to decide between two job offers. I know that many charities and organization have been hurting since the economic downturn, but at least in NYC, everyone I know has kept their job, and I hear about job openings regularly. YMMV in your neck of the woods.
posted by kimdog at 7:04 AM on January 11, 2011
The best way to help is to find the job that you like the most and will do the best. Teaching is a helping profession if you're a good teacher, but it's a soul-sucking one if you aren't. It's hard to predict whether or not you'll be a good teacher, because the skill set required is astoundingly diverse.
The same with social work. If you're burnt out and bitter, then you won't be a good social worker.
As far as the JD, forget about it. I work in the LSAT prep industry, and I can tell you horror story after horror story of people who go into $100k+ of debt, can't find a job, or are stuck in a terrible job. Don't go to law school unless you're 100% sure that you want to. Even then, you probably shouldn't go. It's not romantic, it's not a fun school for most people, and you'll likely have trouble finding a good job.
Good luck.
posted by griseus at 7:10 AM on January 11, 2011
The same with social work. If you're burnt out and bitter, then you won't be a good social worker.
As far as the JD, forget about it. I work in the LSAT prep industry, and I can tell you horror story after horror story of people who go into $100k+ of debt, can't find a job, or are stuck in a terrible job. Don't go to law school unless you're 100% sure that you want to. Even then, you probably shouldn't go. It's not romantic, it's not a fun school for most people, and you'll likely have trouble finding a good job.
Good luck.
posted by griseus at 7:10 AM on January 11, 2011
Best career advice I've ever seen:
Don't ask yourself what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. - Harold Whitman
I agree with the previous answers that hating your degree program is not a good reason to quit, if you truly believe you will love the career it prepares you for. Stick it out for another year or so, then go on to live many happy decades in a fulfilling career. This one's a no-brainer, but it's hard to see when you're so miserable in this moment.
Law school in your case seems like a ridiculously expensive solution that would likely not be worth it if your goal is to help people. I know people who went to law school planning to work in the non-profit sector. They are either (a) miserable because they are always stressed about money, or (b) miserable because they went corporate to help pay off their loans, and feel like they sold out. I would strongly recommend against this course of action.
posted by vytae at 7:11 AM on January 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Don't ask yourself what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. - Harold Whitman
I agree with the previous answers that hating your degree program is not a good reason to quit, if you truly believe you will love the career it prepares you for. Stick it out for another year or so, then go on to live many happy decades in a fulfilling career. This one's a no-brainer, but it's hard to see when you're so miserable in this moment.
Law school in your case seems like a ridiculously expensive solution that would likely not be worth it if your goal is to help people. I know people who went to law school planning to work in the non-profit sector. They are either (a) miserable because they are always stressed about money, or (b) miserable because they went corporate to help pay off their loans, and feel like they sold out. I would strongly recommend against this course of action.
posted by vytae at 7:11 AM on January 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
One way to see if law school might be for you is to sit in on a class. I thought that the field I wanted to go into required a JD, and it does, even though only about a third of the curriculum is relevant. So I took a couple law classes--granted, they were taught by the same prof of questionable quality, but I knew after three or four sessions of the course that I could in no way spend three years of my life in law school. It's boring and a huge component from what I saw was arguing over semantics and rote memorization. Law school sounds really appealing for what you can do with it, and in theory what you'll be learning, but I agree with griseus, the profession is romanticized. I've gone on a different path, but the only way I would entertain law school now is if I had a science background and could pursue patent law.
If you want to help people, I say go for an MSW. Social work is an underrated skillset that is applicable to many many fields, and you can do a diverse set of jobs with an MSW. I know part of my success at business school is from my time spent at a non-profit being supervised/mentored by a LCSW. You can do counseling with people, you can run non-profits or programs within them, you can work with all kinds of populations. Maybe you can do some informational interviews with alums of the program you're interested in. It would give you a sense of what the real day-to-day is like, and it would look great in an application.Caveat: I wholeheartedly agree with the other posters who have argued that MSW work is grueling emotionally. Your boundaries will be tested nearly everyday, if not every day or hour. An MSW could possibly open doors to a higher level, management-type position, which allows you help people but step back a bit from the direct service.
vytae, that Whitman quote is great, thanks.
posted by emkelley at 7:34 AM on January 11, 2011
If you want to help people, I say go for an MSW. Social work is an underrated skillset that is applicable to many many fields, and you can do a diverse set of jobs with an MSW. I know part of my success at business school is from my time spent at a non-profit being supervised/mentored by a LCSW. You can do counseling with people, you can run non-profits or programs within them, you can work with all kinds of populations. Maybe you can do some informational interviews with alums of the program you're interested in. It would give you a sense of what the real day-to-day is like, and it would look great in an application.Caveat: I wholeheartedly agree with the other posters who have argued that MSW work is grueling emotionally. Your boundaries will be tested nearly everyday, if not every day or hour. An MSW could possibly open doors to a higher level, management-type position, which allows you help people but step back a bit from the direct service.
vytae, that Whitman quote is great, thanks.
posted by emkelley at 7:34 AM on January 11, 2011
I started in a special education program and decided teaching wasn’t really for me so I’m in an MSW program right now and the scope of practice is huge. Our program even has 5 different types of social work in which you can specialize. I’m in a medical social work program focusing on working with individuals in health care settings (hospitals, AIDS clinics, cancer centers, etc.). There are people working on child welfare, on employee assistance programs, on military social work, and on community organizations and planning. There are also folks doing the typical mental health/clinical focus as well. It is a very broad field that you can take lots of places. Do be aware that MSW programs require not only class work but extensive field work as well.
A teaching credential will only qualify you for teaching jobs. If you want to teach then I would say stick it out, if you want to do something other than teaching it might be time to change. You might want to think more about your passions and the type of vocation that will be rewarding to you than what will in theory do more good. Both fields do great things for others, but you’ll do more for others in your career if you are passionate about it. Personally I found the service of social work more rewarding than service through education so that’s why I left the one program and went to the other and it was absolutely the right call for me.
posted by Palmcorder Yajna at 8:09 AM on January 11, 2011
A teaching credential will only qualify you for teaching jobs. If you want to teach then I would say stick it out, if you want to do something other than teaching it might be time to change. You might want to think more about your passions and the type of vocation that will be rewarding to you than what will in theory do more good. Both fields do great things for others, but you’ll do more for others in your career if you are passionate about it. Personally I found the service of social work more rewarding than service through education so that’s why I left the one program and went to the other and it was absolutely the right call for me.
posted by Palmcorder Yajna at 8:09 AM on January 11, 2011
Here's an article about why it's a really bad idea to borrow money to attend law school right now.
posted by bluedaisy at 2:23 PM on January 11, 2011
posted by bluedaisy at 2:23 PM on January 11, 2011
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Teaching and social work are both 'pink collar' jobs with relatively low pay. And job prospects aren't great for anyone right now. The American Bar Associated (as you may know) just re-issued a warning to law school prospects to think seriously before heading in that direction. It'd be a lot of time and money to get that dual degree--and certainly you'd make less than you would if you were actually working.
You say you might not get a job. But have you started looking? And do you think you might actually enjoy teaching? You say you don't love your program, but would you love teaching?
Social work is also a pretty high burn-out profession.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:40 PM on January 10, 2011 [1 favorite]