My car seemingly bilocated?
November 27, 2010 11:48 PM Subscribe
To my amazement I just received notice of an Intention To Prosecute by my local UK police authority. What's surprising isn't the speeding ticket but the fact that it is dated and timed to a morning when my car was peacefully sitting on the driveway outside my bedroom window, listening to my snoring.
The Thin Blue Line claim they have me speeding on camera 60 miles away in a place I have never been. Damn, I neglected to take a timed photograph of my driveway that morning! Any British MeFite been in that particular surreal situation before? Do I need to worry? If their identification is based on a blurred image that may or may not correspond to my registration plate, can I beat the rap with ease? Is traffic court fun?
The Thin Blue Line claim they have me speeding on camera 60 miles away in a place I have never been. Damn, I neglected to take a timed photograph of my driveway that morning! Any British MeFite been in that particular surreal situation before? Do I need to worry? If their identification is based on a blurred image that may or may not correspond to my registration plate, can I beat the rap with ease? Is traffic court fun?
Either they've misread your number plate from the photo, or your plate has been cloned. If you're unlucky, the cloned plate is on a similar model car to yours, which makes proving it wasn't you much harder.
Here's the official advice.
- return any fines or correspondence to the issuing authorities providing them with any documentary evidence you have to prove your case
- write to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA), Swansea, SA99 1ZA or fax them on 01792 783 083, they will record your correspondence on the vehicle record for future reference
- contact the police, it is a matter for them to trace and prosecute the culprit to prevent this illegal activity from continuing.
It depends upon your police authority as to whether you can get a copy of the photo easily; although you do have a right to see it as evidence in a court case, same NIP's say you can only do so by pleading not guilty, and having a court date set - other authorities make them available online, and some will provide a copy for a small charge.
In your case, obviously you'll need to contest the charge, and try to get a copy of the photo. If they have just cocked up and misread the plate - which happens more often than it should - you should be able to get it dropped with a letter to the relevant plod department, i.e. the one on the NIP, no need to go to court.
If you're the victim of a smart cloner, i.e. one with the same colour and model car, you may well end up in traffic court. You can represent yourself and win, but in that eventuality I recommend getting a solicitor sooner rather than later as it seems to entirely depend upon the magistrate's whim* as to how something goes, and the bigger guns you have, the better. You can contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau to get a list.
Be prepared for a lot of letters back-n-forth. Send them recorded delivery, and get your solicitor involved in that if it looks like it's going to court. Also contact the DVLA if you've been cloned. Try to gather what evidence you can that you weren't there - any witnesses you were home at that time, a letter from a colleague at work, or a timecard, saying what time you were there - the timeline may show you couldn't have got from there to work for it to have been you, for example. Persevere, and you should win out.
If after all that, they still nail you in court - which being a civil matter, they only need to do on the balance of probability - try and get on a driver's ed course. Often nowadays for a one-off minor speeding offence, if you go along for a couple of hours, you can get the points removed, and I'm told they're even quite informative, not just banging on about 'speed kills'.
*speaking from bitter experience, having had the verdict overturned after about 5 minutes at the appeal in crown court, and how they treated my sister
posted by ArkhanJG at 2:28 AM on November 28, 2010
Here's the official advice.
- return any fines or correspondence to the issuing authorities providing them with any documentary evidence you have to prove your case
- write to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA), Swansea, SA99 1ZA or fax them on 01792 783 083, they will record your correspondence on the vehicle record for future reference
- contact the police, it is a matter for them to trace and prosecute the culprit to prevent this illegal activity from continuing.
It depends upon your police authority as to whether you can get a copy of the photo easily; although you do have a right to see it as evidence in a court case, same NIP's say you can only do so by pleading not guilty, and having a court date set - other authorities make them available online, and some will provide a copy for a small charge.
In your case, obviously you'll need to contest the charge, and try to get a copy of the photo. If they have just cocked up and misread the plate - which happens more often than it should - you should be able to get it dropped with a letter to the relevant plod department, i.e. the one on the NIP, no need to go to court.
If you're the victim of a smart cloner, i.e. one with the same colour and model car, you may well end up in traffic court. You can represent yourself and win, but in that eventuality I recommend getting a solicitor sooner rather than later as it seems to entirely depend upon the magistrate's whim* as to how something goes, and the bigger guns you have, the better. You can contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau to get a list.
Be prepared for a lot of letters back-n-forth. Send them recorded delivery, and get your solicitor involved in that if it looks like it's going to court. Also contact the DVLA if you've been cloned. Try to gather what evidence you can that you weren't there - any witnesses you were home at that time, a letter from a colleague at work, or a timecard, saying what time you were there - the timeline may show you couldn't have got from there to work for it to have been you, for example. Persevere, and you should win out.
If after all that, they still nail you in court - which being a civil matter, they only need to do on the balance of probability - try and get on a driver's ed course. Often nowadays for a one-off minor speeding offence, if you go along for a couple of hours, you can get the points removed, and I'm told they're even quite informative, not just banging on about 'speed kills'.
*speaking from bitter experience, having had the verdict overturned after about 5 minutes at the appeal in crown court, and how they treated my sister
posted by ArkhanJG at 2:28 AM on November 28, 2010
Oh, and if it does look like you've been cloned, contact your insurance company. Some policies now cover costs incurred due to someone using your plate number, and will also cover you in the event they get involved in an accident and your insurance company gets tagged for it because someone jotted down 'your' plate.
posted by ArkhanJG at 2:37 AM on November 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by ArkhanJG at 2:37 AM on November 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
People are cloning license plates now? Is that a UK only thing, or does it happen in the states? Are they actually embossing them into metal, or are they just colored cardboard?
(My advice if it goes to court: wear a suit and carry a notepad. As soon as the prosecutor saw me, they dragged me into the hallway and offered me a plea. No points, no class, no nothing. Just pay the court costs and get lost. I was ready to fight, because like in your case, I literally was on the right side of the law, but I had a busy day and it was "cheaper" to pay them and move on. I think the testifying police officer was more relieved than me; I'm pretty sure I might have been the first person he ever had to go to court on.
I know life and the courts shouldn't work like this, but they do. If you look like a principled but respectful troublemaker, they don't want to deal with it.
This might not be the same in UK courts, but it can't hurt.)
Make a file-folder for this event, and keep all correspondence in there. Even use the inside of the folder to make notes on. That way all information is right at hand when you need it.
(Other advice: always be nice. I got a ticket in my municipality for something silly, like a $25 fine. It applied to me, I did the thing, but it had the wrong license plate written on it and I probably could have gotten away with it. But I was feeling civic-minded and really didn't want to be the cause of this other person having to deal with what you are dealing with. I walked up to the window at the police station and explained the situation. Three minutes later the police chief is standing at the window, somewhat incredulous. I think he thought I was trying to pull some kind of scam- I was insisting on paying, but not until they guaranteed that this other person would be off the hook.
My point: so many people are always trying to get away with shit that it often doesn't even occur to law enforcement that you are telling the truth and not trying to play them. Being nice, looking upstanding and speaking in narrative usually works. What I mean by speaking in narrative is to use your own language, rather than trying to use language that you think they will better understand. I'm not a police office or a lawyer, and trying to act like I am one will make me look phoney. Rather, I just tell the story as I know it.
It's like when you see people at McDonald's. When they are asked for their order, they just bark "#2 with Dr. Pepper". They think they are being helpful by using the same language and tone that the employee uses with the kitchen- they just want to fit in and not be a bother. But the employee thinks they are rude, or even doesn't understand, because you aren't one of them and our brains can't switch context like that.)
posted by gjc at 8:11 AM on November 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
(My advice if it goes to court: wear a suit and carry a notepad. As soon as the prosecutor saw me, they dragged me into the hallway and offered me a plea. No points, no class, no nothing. Just pay the court costs and get lost. I was ready to fight, because like in your case, I literally was on the right side of the law, but I had a busy day and it was "cheaper" to pay them and move on. I think the testifying police officer was more relieved than me; I'm pretty sure I might have been the first person he ever had to go to court on.
I know life and the courts shouldn't work like this, but they do. If you look like a principled but respectful troublemaker, they don't want to deal with it.
This might not be the same in UK courts, but it can't hurt.)
Make a file-folder for this event, and keep all correspondence in there. Even use the inside of the folder to make notes on. That way all information is right at hand when you need it.
(Other advice: always be nice. I got a ticket in my municipality for something silly, like a $25 fine. It applied to me, I did the thing, but it had the wrong license plate written on it and I probably could have gotten away with it. But I was feeling civic-minded and really didn't want to be the cause of this other person having to deal with what you are dealing with. I walked up to the window at the police station and explained the situation. Three minutes later the police chief is standing at the window, somewhat incredulous. I think he thought I was trying to pull some kind of scam- I was insisting on paying, but not until they guaranteed that this other person would be off the hook.
My point: so many people are always trying to get away with shit that it often doesn't even occur to law enforcement that you are telling the truth and not trying to play them. Being nice, looking upstanding and speaking in narrative usually works. What I mean by speaking in narrative is to use your own language, rather than trying to use language that you think they will better understand. I'm not a police office or a lawyer, and trying to act like I am one will make me look phoney. Rather, I just tell the story as I know it.
It's like when you see people at McDonald's. When they are asked for their order, they just bark "#2 with Dr. Pepper". They think they are being helpful by using the same language and tone that the employee uses with the kitchen- they just want to fit in and not be a bother. But the employee thinks they are rude, or even doesn't understand, because you aren't one of them and our brains can't switch context like that.)
posted by gjc at 8:11 AM on November 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
@gjc: In the UK (and elsewhere in Europe), the government vehicle registration agency provides you with a registration number, but it doesn't provide the plate itself. Instead, you order one yourself from a company that makes them. The UK now has a system to register companies that provide plates, and to require them to verify the identity and vehicle registration number of every customer and to retain records of every sale. That's supposed to cut down on fraud.
posted by brianogilvie at 9:54 AM on November 28, 2010
posted by brianogilvie at 9:54 AM on November 28, 2010
Are UK licence plates guaranteed unique?
In some places, two or more vehicles can have the same plate, as long as they're not similar in make and model.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 11:36 AM on November 28, 2010
In some places, two or more vehicles can have the same plate, as long as they're not similar in make and model.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 11:36 AM on November 28, 2010
@AmbroseChapel: UK licence plates should be unique to each vehicle, in that there should only be one vehicle record held by the registration authority for each unique number, but I believe it was possible, at least in the past, for a number to be issued more than once accidentally (owing to the checks that are now made when new numbers are issued it shouldn't happen any more). Vehicle records were computerised in, I think, the late 80s, but many vehicles missed having their record computerised if, for example, they had been kept off the road for several years. When applying to reclaim old registration checks are made to ensure the registration number is only applied to the same vehicle it was originally issued to. In fact, if there's any doubt, a new number is issued, so I imagine that there are many more vehicles with more than one registration number issued to them than there are registration numbers that apply to more than one vehicle.
However as the certificates detailing the registration numbers are written by hand I daresay it wouldn't be impossible for a clerical error to be made such that the vehicle's keeper unknowingly gets the wrong plates made up. The error should be spotted when they then receive the vehicle registration document, but I've known more than one person who never bothers to check that kind of thing!
posted by kumonoi at 12:30 PM on November 28, 2010
However as the certificates detailing the registration numbers are written by hand I daresay it wouldn't be impossible for a clerical error to be made such that the vehicle's keeper unknowingly gets the wrong plates made up. The error should be spotted when they then receive the vehicle registration document, but I've known more than one person who never bothers to check that kind of thing!
posted by kumonoi at 12:30 PM on November 28, 2010
Response by poster: The mystery was eventually solved, and it was quite funny: The police computer got its knickers in a twist and registered all perpetrators of speed violations in the region on that day as having been snapped in the one location (this does mean that I was caught in a speed trap in my home town), but because of the clerical error I was let off - pheww!
posted by kairab at 12:08 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by kairab at 12:08 PM on December 19, 2010 [1 favorite]
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posted by tim_in_oz at 12:16 AM on November 28, 2010