Grating Expectations
September 15, 2010 10:05 AM   Subscribe

Early-onset Alzheimer's or deep-seated marital issues?

Marilynne Robinson wrote, “The ways in which we are strange we grow stranger.” DH has not been formally diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimer’s as the definitive tests will happen in two weeks. We’ve been struggling for years with an area where our strangeness runs in oppostite directions and, due to this condition or not, is getting worse.

DH is constitutionally incapable of discussing negative feelings directly so they come up in unconscious behaviors. This is very hard for someone who wants to make everything conscious, who thrives onpersonal and interpersonal growth. In every conventional way DH has always been extremely thoughtful and caring and he makes it absolutely clear that he wants to be together forever, so I'm at a loss to know how to respond when he does something that, were he not ill, would make me bolt.

Here is a typical example from today. We were preparing to go out (his idea) and as I was nearly ready I called from the next room, "Are your ready?" No reply. It turned out he was playing with our cat and didn't want to give away his position. When I told him that this made me feel less important to him than our cat he feigned exasperation because I'm always asking him to play with our cat.

This sort of thing has been happening with increasing frequency throughout our marriage but especially in the past year. DH is as afraid of counseling as he is of verbal intimacy. I've offered to stay away from his counselor so he can tell him/her anything he wants and this has made no difference. If I were to drag him I believe it could do more harm than good because I would have to betray confidences in answering the most basic questions. I've had my own analysis for years and it indicates that my relationship needs have grown beyond what we’re able to do together. It’s very emotionally satisfying for me to take care of DH but when these things occur this gratification is shattered by the suggestion that I'm not enough, contrary to his adamant verbal statements. When the same thing occurs repeatedly after I've made it clear how I feel it can feel a little sadistic, a quality present in some of DH's erotic interests and that I am unable to share with him. My suggestion that he seems to be trying to bring that quality into our relatedness has done nothing.

I’d be interested in any ideas. How much is it fair to expect of someone in this condition? How should I deal with the disparity between what he says he feels and how he sometimes behaves? Are there any exercises he/we could do that would be less threatening to him?
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (24 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
We were preparing to go out (his idea) and as I was nearly ready I called from the next room, "Are your ready?" No reply. It turned out he was playing with our cat and didn't want to give away his position. When I told him that this made me feel less important to him than our cat he feigned exasperation because I'm always asking him to play with our cat.

If that example is accurately portrayed, I'd be very surprised if the exasperation was feigned. He was playing with the cat (something you encourage) yet when he does it makes you feel less important than an animal?

Seriously?
posted by Brockles at 10:10 AM on September 15, 2010 [4 favorites]


Can you email the mods and post some other examples? The cat example makes no sense to me; I can't see it as being anything more than a minor annoyance for either of you.
posted by desjardins at 10:16 AM on September 15, 2010 [7 favorites]


We were preparing to go out (his idea) and as I was nearly ready I called from the next room, "Are your ready?" No reply. It turned out he was playing with our cat and didn't want to give away his position. When I told him that this made me feel less important to him than our cat he feigned exasperation because I'm always asking him to play with our cat.

I get the impression that you think the meaning of this exchange is self-evident, but it's really not. I have no idea what you're trying to illustrate here. Could you add some info, via a mod, that would tell us more about what's actually going on and less about what you think is going on?
posted by jon1270 at 10:19 AM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]


I'm with Brockles...the cat example seems really innocuous (on his part) and your reaction seems really odd.

Maybe a different example would help.
posted by murrey at 10:19 AM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]


If that is Alzheimers, then I hope someone has a nice room for me somewhere with lots of television and popsicle-stick crafts.

Sounds like you just need couple's counseling.
posted by hermitosis at 10:21 AM on September 15, 2010


The cause of the exasperation was not that he was playing with the cat, it was that he didn't reply when he was asked if he was ready to go out, because he was trying to avoid having to stop playing with the cat, even though strangely enough, it had been his idea to go out in the first place. So what does this person want? Furthermore, even if he did change his mind and decide that it would be better to play with the cat than to go out with his wife, he should say so, rather than remaining silent in the apparent hope of escaping notice. This is not reasonable behavior. You want to play with the cat, fine, don't say that you want to go out, and don't refuse to reply if you are asked if you are ready to go out. Say what you want to do.

That said, this is not such a terrible problem that it urgently requires remedy. In the future, I would take him less seriously when he says he wants to do something, and if he doesn't reply when asked if he is ready to go out, just assume that he doesn't really want to go out and find something else to do. He can ignore you, you can ignore him. It is not an ideal marriage, but then, few marriages are ideal. This does not yet constitute something on the order of Alzheimer's disease - although I wouldn't rule out Alzheimer's; he may have actually forgotten that he had just suggested going out.
posted by grizzled at 10:23 AM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]


Calling someone from another room, unless the house is on fire, is itself less than entirely respectful. Would you call your boss from another room? If you can't be bothered to go ask your husband to his face, and yet take umbrage when you don't get the response you want, I think you should consider the possibility that you're the one with the problem, the fact that you've been in therapy forever notwithstanding.
posted by bricoleur at 10:24 AM on September 15, 2010 [7 favorites]


Agreed that the cat example, which is all you've given us, is bizarre and not the kind of thing that seems likely to make one "bolt" a longterm marriage.

That said, you seem fairly sure he has Alzheimer's, and if this is true, I can only warn you - with greatest of sympathy and sadness - that you will need enormous reserves of patience and fortitude to handle what is coming.
posted by CunningLinguist at 10:26 AM on September 15, 2010


And I'm not suggesting that your husband is or should be your boss--bad choice of example. Substitute any other figure to whom you wish to show respect.
posted by bricoleur at 10:26 AM on September 15, 2010


I'm not entirely sure what your question is. You say he's having some medical tests done in a couple of weeks; the results of those tests will surely make a big difference in how you proceed with your relationship. If he does have Alzheimer's, you'll probably be exploring medication. If he doesn't, then taking another look at counseling is probably in order.

The way you've phrased this question is...a little odd, in a way I can't put my finger on. The one example you shared does seem odd, but your response was also odd. If your husband is in fact ill, and forgot that you were planning to go out, why on Earth would you make that about you ("You love the cat more than me")?

You say you've been in therapy for years, and I find that a little odd, too, given the rest of what you've said. I can't really put my finger on why, but the vibe I'm getting from you is that you've got these very specific and rigid expectations of your husband (who, you say, is wonderful "in every conventional way"), and he's not meeting them. If he's really unwilling to try counseling, maybe finding a new therapist for yourself might give you a fresh perspective on things. I just get such a "Why is he so wrong?" vibe from you, and it's possible that taking a closer look at your expectations with a fresh pair of eyes and ears might make a difference in how you approach your husband.
posted by Gator at 10:29 AM on September 15, 2010 [3 favorites]


Yes, early-onset dementias of several types can cause emotional problems as well as problems with memory function.

Absolutely nothing in your post would make me think your husband would even merit testing though. Maybe the assessment will show otherwise, but consider that this is not about Alzheimer's.
posted by slow graffiti at 10:31 AM on September 15, 2010


Agreeing with the above, we'd need more amplification on DH's behavior that makes you think something might be organically wrong. FWIW, my mother-in-law was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's when she was in her early 60s. The first clue to my father-in-law that something might be wrong was that he noticed MIL wouldn't eat - not even snack or munch - unless she was told to. (She had stopped cooking "regular" meals once FIL retired so they both sort of ate on the fly when they were hungry, on no particular schedule.) She also started cursing occasionally (this from a woman who'd never uttered so much as "damn" before) in casual conversation. Her doctor sent her to a neurologist and the first battery of tests "strongly suggested" early onset AD, but a "wait and see" attitude was still taken for about another three months, when she was re-tested and started on Aricept. This is strictly anecdotal, of course, but traditionally early symptoms of AD are more obvious behavioral aberrations than avoiding conflict with one's spouse.
posted by Oriole Adams at 10:39 AM on September 15, 2010


I hope we are missing much of the story here, because as written, it reminds me all too much of my own parents ... my mother decided to have my father tested for alzheimers, and kept on his case constantly about HIS aberrant behaviour, when it was obvious to every one else that SHE was the one with odd, obsessive and disturbing behaviour ...

FWIW -- he DID have some memory issues due to lack of oxygen, she has refused all testing and just gets more bizarre.

Now, I am NOT saying your situation is like theirs, but that the way you wrote it, the feeling reminded me of them.

I agree with other posters, more examples might be a better indicator to us of what is going on with your husband/marriage.
posted by batikrose at 10:53 AM on September 15, 2010


Although I agree that your question is unclear at present, I’ll take a stab at it, (excluding the cat example) -

You write: DH has not been formally diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimer’s. …due to this condition or not, is getting worse…I'm at a loss to know how to respond when he does something that, were he not ill, would make me bolt…It’s very emotionally satisfying for me to take care of DH…

He has not been formally diagnosed. Nothing you’ve written here is enough evidence to begin to suggest he has early-onset Alzheimer’s. Therefore, unless there are obvious symptoms you haven’t mentioned, I would just assume as yet that we don’t know for sure. However, I get the idea that if he were to have a positive diagnosis, you would want to take care of him and would be more lenient and forgiving when he hurts your feelings. Which is understandable. It is admirable that you would stay with him and care for him in such a way, but understand that it will likely continue to be frustrating and he may eventually require professional help or hospitalization.

We’ve been struggling for years…were he not ill, would make me bolt…gratification is shattered by the suggestion that I'm not enough, contrary to his adamant verbal statements… it can feel a little sadistic, a quality present in some of DH's erotic interests and that I am unable to share with him.

What I get from this is that you feel your husband is passive-aggressive, and is taking out his resentment on you by refusing to discuss your issues, refusing counseling, ignoring you, or forgetting what you’ve said. You say this has been worsening for years; in that case I would assume it is part of his personality that is unrelated to potential Alzheimer’s, but which may be worsened by it.

Now, here is what I suggest: You can’t really make any decisions until you know for sure what his medical condition is. In any case, it seems clear that your husband is unlikely to improve whether or not his actions are affected by his condition. Assume that he will never change. Do you think you could handle taking care of someone who may be very difficult and ungrateful? In that case you could prepare yourself through more counseling, support groups, and the like. But “put on your own oxygen mask before assisting others” also applies here. If you are depressed, if you are hurt, you may be unable to handle this whether you want to or not. But what you can do starting right now is try to be responsible for your own happiness. That might mean taking some time to yourself and trying to emotionally detach from your husband. Here is another quote for you: “Men are irrelevant. Women are happy or unhappy, fulfilled or unfulfilled, and it has nothing to do with men.” ~Fay Weldon. It will be difficult for you no matter what. Do what you need to do to take care of you first.
posted by Nixy at 10:57 AM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]


It’s very emotionally satisfying for me to take care of DH but when these things occur this gratification is shattered by the suggestion that I'm not enough, contrary to his adamant verbal statements.

Solid rule of life: When someone says something, believe them. If he says you are enough, then he thinks you are enough. So where is the idea that you are not enough for him coming from?

The calls are coming from inside the house.

What I'm trying to say is that you seem as if you are wrestling with a lot inside yourself and projecting this on to your husband, who, by your own admission, tells you that you are enough and has in every conventional been extremely thoughtful and caring and makes it absolutely clear that he wants to be together forever. What you are looking for, no husband can provide.

Take the cat example. Your husband was playing hide and seek with the cat and you called out to him asking him if he was ready. He didn't want to reveal his position to the cat and didn't reply to you right away. Perhaps this was fine, perhaps it was a little insensitive. But there is nothing in the behavior that says that the cat is more important to him than you are. Something (yourself) is telling you those things mean things that they do not. And you need to find out why.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:57 AM on September 15, 2010 [8 favorites]


When the same thing occurs repeatedly after I've made it clear how I feel it can feel a little sadistic, a quality present in some of DH's erotic interests and that I am unable to share with him

This is not his sexual proclivities bleeding into his interactions with you. This is his sexual frustration being expressed in the language most familiar to him: he is passive-aggressively displaying resentment that he generally tries to convince himself he doesn't feel. More and more it's creeping into his daily interactions.

Does he do much sighing? Eye-rolling?

The incident with the cat - again, resentment. He resents that you called from the other room instead of coming to ask him so he came up with a crappy excuse to have remained silent. It's how he strikes back, as it were. No, in the grand scheme of things it's really not fair, but it's how he works.

If you want this to work, you're going to need to be able to do a few things. You both need to be able to speak frankly about how you're feeling, what you're afraid of and what you're mad about, and you both need to have the stones to call the other out when they're being less than entirely up-front. Then, get thee to marriage counseling.

The deal is this: You both need to be honest and frank, and quit internalizng things. Get it out and be prepared to deal with it when it gets out, and be prepared for the fact that doing this all in a healthy way will take a long time and a lot of work and, again, marriage counseling. But also be aware that it's worth it, and your marriage can be saved and will be stronger for it. That is option one.

Option two is you accept that this is how things are going to be, and you accept that they will actually get worse as time goes on and he continues to resent you and that his paralytic approach to conflict resolution will seem more and more like mental illness to you because you're being shut out of his coping process which, as it stands, is sort of alien to you anyway. I can't say with any honesty that I recommend option two.

Option three is you leave.

And that's it. Those are the three possible outcomes, and there aren't any others. Pick one and act on it. Failing to do so indicates that you have chosen option two.

Again, this can be saved. It'll be work and it'll be worth it. Good luck.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 11:26 AM on September 15, 2010 [4 favorites]


Mod note: comment removed - want to talk about moderation - go to metatalk
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:32 AM on September 15, 2010


"Here is a typical example from today. We were preparing to go out (his idea) and as I was nearly ready I called from the next room, "Are your ready?" No reply. It turned out he was playing with our cat and didn't want to give away his position. When I told him that this made me feel less important to him than our cat he feigned exasperation because I'm always asking him to play with our cat."

Nthing that you probably need to provide us with better examples than this. I was confused at first by "didn't want to give away his position," but if Ironmouth is correct that he was playing hide-and-seek with the cat, it makes sense. If my wife did that, I would consider it at worst a trivial annoyance if I was in a hurry. Otherwise I would consider it cute.

On the other hand, a reaction of "I told him that this made me feel less important to him than our cat " seems like you were looking for a fight. Why would you assume that he was feigning exasperation? Many spouses would be sincerely exasperated at that sort of accusation. If you are interpreting his behavior in this case as "sadistic" or "reason to bolt" from a long-term marriage, than you are projecting a lot of stuff into his actions that are not apparent from your description.
posted by tdismukes at 11:34 AM on September 15, 2010


An email address would have been nice, but instead I will just be cryptic and annoying.

The other condition that starts with an A is Asperger's. Pathologically incapable of discussing emotions? Doesn't consider it necessary to answer direct questions when doing something 'more important'? Oh yes. On the other hand, I am not anybody's mental health professional or even their first-year psych student, and the only person I know who actually has an Asperger's diagnosis isn't like that at all.

The cat thing makes perfect sense to me (and if I've put my shoes on I'm not gong tromping all over the house looking for someone who's supposed to be capable of getting themself ready), but doesn't necessarily seem like an Alzheimer's symptom; you're saying that this kind of thing has been happening more lately and that's why you think he's developing dementia? But really, it could just be that he's sulking for unknown and inexplicable reasons? Good luck. I can't say DTMFA because that would be hypocritical, but if it gets to the point where the disconnect between what he says and what he does gets too great, maybe consider it.
posted by Lebannen at 12:20 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]


Solid rule of life: When someone says something, believe them.

What? No. When someone says something and their actions indicate otherwise, believe the actions. Classic example: abuse. "I'm doing this because I love you." No way. Someone's words are never stronger than what they DO.

I'm just as perplexed about the OP's example given as most everyone else seems to be. But if there seems to be a problem (whatever it is), and you can't go to couple's counseling, individual counseling is ALWAYS an option. A counselor is confidential; you can go by yourself and talk about private things and not be giving away confidences.

If you're stressed and unhappy about (whatever it is), going to a counselor can help you get perspective and to work it out as much as you can yourself. If it's a problem with the both of you, it won't change if you're not both working on it...but maybe it's something that you can learn to deal with, or learn to help him deal with, or at least learn to express what it is so he can *see* how it's a problem...or learn to make a dealbreaker.

If he does in fact have Alzheimer's, find a good, reliable, compatible therapist NOW. Go NOW and plan to keep going. Things will change in ways you don't have any idea how to handle; a therapist will help.
posted by galadriel at 2:07 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]


Mod note: From the OP:
Sorry the best bits didn't make it past my editing. Here are some more "episodes" from recent memory. DH and I both see early-onset Alzheimer's in severe memory failure. He forgets for a moment what a power strip is for or swears the sanitizer dispenser on the wall at the gym was automated. Words fail him, he bounces checks, doesn't want to see people, gets very irritable, etc. There is apathy, twice as much sleep, and other personality changes. His sister passed away a few months ago at age sixty from the condition.

We sat in a booth at a little Mexican restaurant equally perturbed by the deep bass coming out of the speakers. DH rails against any music at any restaurant and I just like to avoid that bass, especially while dining. THe music style was jazz so it was very odd. DH, an old DJ, explained that they might be pumping the bass into all music now. I hoped to hell not and when the waitress came I asked whether others had complained and wondered if the speakers might have been blown out. I indicated DH's idea, the waitress looked at him and he shrugged as if this was the first he'd heard of it.

My surgeon forgot to order pain meds for me after surgery. The gas wore off and that was it. We knew this was not right because at another hospital I'd been given several pushes of morphine both in recovery and once transported to my room. for two and a half hours I languished in bed in the worst pain you can imagine (there had been craniectomy, drilling through the temporal bone, peeling back of layers of tissue to get to the brain stem then replacing it all and sewing it up). DH was unwilling to insist I get my meds. I had to get up out of bed, march to the nurse's desk and do a Shirley McClaine myself to get the much-needed shot. Yes, I do take this as a testament to the quality of our relationship. Who wouldn't? If the roles had been reversed he would have had his shot within the first 30 minutes.

He did see a counselor for a few weeks years ago. This counselor actually called me, whom he'd never met, and cautioned me about the level of passive-agression he saw in DH. I'd never heard of such a thing but there it was.

DH has a strange habit of carrying luggage in every way except with the handle. Odd, I know, and very hard on his back. The other day he picked up a large bag by the small web tacked on for attaching other bags. I said, wait, hon, and he didn't wait. I said, "Stop, please," and he wouldn't stop. He didn't want the people in the parking lot to see him.

We had to drop a computer off at the FedEx store. There was construction out in front and this upset DH. I asked him to pull over into a nearby parking lot so I could carry it over or we could re-assess or anything except drive frantically to "get away from here!" as he wanted to do. This was the only place to take it in our town (part of AppleCare). We had to drive to the other end of town before DH was comfortable going back, from the opposite direction, about twenty miles out of our way. Roles reversed I would have heard his wishes and calm counsel in those crucial minutes and pulled over.

There are so many, weekly and now daily, but I don't want to reveal anything that friends might recognize. I hope this does it. No one we know would call me an over-controlling shrew. Thanks to those who've taken a more nuanced view and been able to see the essence of our situation. Your ideas have been immeasurably helpful.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 3:00 PM on September 15, 2010


Out of the additional examples you've shared, the only one that seems remotely disturbing to me is his reluctance to demand your meds in the hospital, but overall it really just sounds like the guy has a neurotic fear of confrontations, and is afraid of looking stupid or foolish in front of other people. This along with the forgetfulness may very well have a medical cause, but again, he's getting tested, so, wait and see what comes out of that.

Unless something was deleted, no one here called you controlling or a shrew. I get that you might feel a little defensive, but I'm still getting a vibe from you think you can't possibly be contributing to the problems in your relationship in any way, and I still think you'd benefit from getting some fresh insight into your own from a professional -- a new one, who'll be objective and who might not be too quick to validate you. That's really what it seems like you're looking for, validation, and while that's not a bad thing per se, it's just...There are two people in this relationship. You may be very fond of "I statements," but some of those "I statements" may need to point back to you.
posted by Gator at 3:16 PM on September 15, 2010


Thank you for providing more information. I feel for you, I really do. I cannot even begin to imagine how difficult this is on a daily basis.

Whatever it is that is affecting husband, I am in hopes there is some treatment that may modify behavior somewhat or slow down progress of it.

Please, continue therapy for yourself, as this likely will be the hardest thing you will ever do, to continue to deal with this.

"If" it becomes neccessary for you to look more out for yourself, and take steps that others may frown upon, please remember that YOU count to. No one else can put themselves in your shoes, and choices are not "one size fits all".

Do get a support team around you as much as you can ... including web forums, therapist, and whatever else may be available, including family members if that is possible. My best to you.
posted by batikrose at 3:23 PM on September 15, 2010 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure it's useful to think in terms of what you would have done had the "roles been reversed," because they're not. He's being evaluated for Alzheimer's and you're not. Even if he doesn't have it, let's say the worst-case scenario is that he's a passive aggressive jerk. Still doesn't matter; you can't "should" him into doing anything.

It seems very, very, very unlikely that he's doing these things because he doesn't love you or you don't matter to him. Or even purposely to annoy you. Nothing sounds remotely abusive here or even like "a deep-seated marital issue." My husband and I deal with more serious things on a monthly basis (except for the whole brain surgery thing) and I'd consider us very happily married. Consider recalibrating your expectations; they are directly causing your suffering, not him.

Having had several close relatives with Alzheimer's, you're going to need an incredible amount of patience if he indeed has it. If your wedding vows included something like "for better or for worse, in sickness and in health," well, this is your chance to keep them. I agree with batikrose; you need a strong support network ASAP.
posted by desjardins at 3:58 PM on September 15, 2010 [2 favorites]


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