Boy meets Girl. Boy utterly clueless
September 6, 2010 2:35 PM Subscribe
I've met a nice girl working at a festival. I think she might be also interested in me, but shyness/social phobia have so far kept me away from dating girls. Need some perspective on this, and ideas how to proceed from here.
Some introduction why I never dated before: 24 years old, clinically depressed for at least 5 years, but problems started as soon as I can remember. Short version: Mother is/was overprotective, manipulative, sadistic, won't listen to reason. Father completely lacks empathy. My parents did a very good job at destroying my self-confidence (to the point where I thought I'd make the world a favor by killing myself).
I've been in therapy for the last half year, and so far it has helped me tremendously. Paroxetine (SSRI-type antidepressant) also helps, as does the decision to completely break off contact with my mother (a step supported by my therapist).
A bit more of the situation: I first noticed her when she came to me and told me that I have a nice Tshirt. It was a really old Simpsons shirt I only wore because I knew it would get dirty/sweaty/torn apart. So maybe 'she has a really bad taste in shirts' would be the wrong conclusion. Next day or so she also told me that I have a nice 'skirt' (didn't wear it before). To which I replied 'that's a kilt!'. Um, okay, maybe the wrong answer. I then tried to save the situation by pointing out that we were almost in partner look (green kilt/shorts, blue shirt).
Unfortunately she never stayed in the evening. I talked with her about it, that she only worked and never stayed for the social part of the evening. She squirmed a bit, and somewhere even said something along the lines of 'well, nobody wants to hang out with me anyhow'. Hello, right in front of you? Positive thing, that implies that she doesn't have a boyfriend. It worried me a bit, but on the other side, I also only helped at the festival because I've had nothing else to do, and feeling insecure about it etc.
She also told me once that she likes nerds - but I do not know if she thinks of me as a nerd (I certainly do. I also consider her a book nerd, see below).
The way we said goodbye was also a bit strange... she said goodbye to me, called me the wrong name, but then didn't go but talked some time with someone from the kitchen where she helped the first few days. Felt a bit ignored that she didn't talk to me. After she left, I went to the next village to buy some things, and saw her again in the supermarket, where she apologized profusely about calling me the wrong name. I also made her promise that she comes to afterparty for all the helpers (but that exact event didn't take place, was something meant for the people who were there all the time, but there will be another bigger party for all the people who helped as little as two hours during the festival).
One thing that really makes me want to see her again: We had some leftover books (used as decoration) at the end of the festival, so I suggested that we have a good, old-fashioned book burning. To which she replied with a heartfelt 'noooooo!'. So endearing. Cute and nerdy... wow.
About contacting her: She's not on facebook, so no ultra-convenient way of contacting her. I know that she contacted one of the organisators via email, so I could ask around. I think I also found her phone number (she said she lives in an adjacent village. Found one person with her rather uncommon first name living in the next village). What would be better, email or phone? Email to indirect? Phone to stalkish? Phone would certainly be directer... dunno if _I_ would answer an email because I couldn't think of a good enough answer/general flakiness.
So... in summary, my questions are:
1. What's the best way to contact her/setting up a date?
2. How to interpret her signals towards me? General friendliness? Interest? Something in between, something undefined?
3. Tips how not to screw this up. I really want to see her again, and I'd like to make it clear that I have a romantic interest in her, not just being friends.
4. Everything else you want to say to me after reading what I wrote.
Some introduction why I never dated before: 24 years old, clinically depressed for at least 5 years, but problems started as soon as I can remember. Short version: Mother is/was overprotective, manipulative, sadistic, won't listen to reason. Father completely lacks empathy. My parents did a very good job at destroying my self-confidence (to the point where I thought I'd make the world a favor by killing myself).
I've been in therapy for the last half year, and so far it has helped me tremendously. Paroxetine (SSRI-type antidepressant) also helps, as does the decision to completely break off contact with my mother (a step supported by my therapist).
A bit more of the situation: I first noticed her when she came to me and told me that I have a nice Tshirt. It was a really old Simpsons shirt I only wore because I knew it would get dirty/sweaty/torn apart. So maybe 'she has a really bad taste in shirts' would be the wrong conclusion. Next day or so she also told me that I have a nice 'skirt' (didn't wear it before). To which I replied 'that's a kilt!'. Um, okay, maybe the wrong answer. I then tried to save the situation by pointing out that we were almost in partner look (green kilt/shorts, blue shirt).
Unfortunately she never stayed in the evening. I talked with her about it, that she only worked and never stayed for the social part of the evening. She squirmed a bit, and somewhere even said something along the lines of 'well, nobody wants to hang out with me anyhow'. Hello, right in front of you? Positive thing, that implies that she doesn't have a boyfriend. It worried me a bit, but on the other side, I also only helped at the festival because I've had nothing else to do, and feeling insecure about it etc.
She also told me once that she likes nerds - but I do not know if she thinks of me as a nerd (I certainly do. I also consider her a book nerd, see below).
The way we said goodbye was also a bit strange... she said goodbye to me, called me the wrong name, but then didn't go but talked some time with someone from the kitchen where she helped the first few days. Felt a bit ignored that she didn't talk to me. After she left, I went to the next village to buy some things, and saw her again in the supermarket, where she apologized profusely about calling me the wrong name. I also made her promise that she comes to afterparty for all the helpers (but that exact event didn't take place, was something meant for the people who were there all the time, but there will be another bigger party for all the people who helped as little as two hours during the festival).
One thing that really makes me want to see her again: We had some leftover books (used as decoration) at the end of the festival, so I suggested that we have a good, old-fashioned book burning. To which she replied with a heartfelt 'noooooo!'. So endearing. Cute and nerdy... wow.
About contacting her: She's not on facebook, so no ultra-convenient way of contacting her. I know that she contacted one of the organisators via email, so I could ask around. I think I also found her phone number (she said she lives in an adjacent village. Found one person with her rather uncommon first name living in the next village). What would be better, email or phone? Email to indirect? Phone to stalkish? Phone would certainly be directer... dunno if _I_ would answer an email because I couldn't think of a good enough answer/general flakiness.
So... in summary, my questions are:
1. What's the best way to contact her/setting up a date?
2. How to interpret her signals towards me? General friendliness? Interest? Something in between, something undefined?
3. Tips how not to screw this up. I really want to see her again, and I'd like to make it clear that I have a romantic interest in her, not just being friends.
4. Everything else you want to say to me after reading what I wrote.
1. email is the most convenient method.
2. She appears to be friendly.
3. My best advice for you not to screw this up is to remain calm and don't panic. Remember that most of us are not perfectly elegant, suave, or socially adroit, so a certain amount of clumsiness does not make you into a disgrace. When you like someone, you tend to forgive their imperfections, and no one really is expected to be perfect. Be yourself. Don't try to create a false impression of who you are.
4. At the age of 24 you have the advantage of youth, which is known to be the best of all aphrodisiacs. Youth is very charming. So, your chances are better than you think.
posted by grizzled at 2:56 PM on September 6, 2010
2. She appears to be friendly.
3. My best advice for you not to screw this up is to remain calm and don't panic. Remember that most of us are not perfectly elegant, suave, or socially adroit, so a certain amount of clumsiness does not make you into a disgrace. When you like someone, you tend to forgive their imperfections, and no one really is expected to be perfect. Be yourself. Don't try to create a false impression of who you are.
4. At the age of 24 you have the advantage of youth, which is known to be the best of all aphrodisiacs. Youth is very charming. So, your chances are better than you think.
posted by grizzled at 2:56 PM on September 6, 2010
Best answer: Intimate Connections. Follow the instructions to a T. You will be amazed.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:05 PM on September 6, 2010
posted by Ironmouth at 3:05 PM on September 6, 2010
Oh, and if you've never read Succeed Socially, do so. It has the benefit of being written by someone who is not selling anything. He's also got an entire site with dating/sex advice and guides, but I can't seem to find it.
posted by griphus at 3:08 PM on September 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by griphus at 3:08 PM on September 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
2. How to interpret her signals towards me? General friendliness? Interest? Something in between, something undefined?
She is so obviously interested. Reread your own question -- all the details you've described are signals.
To which I replied 'that's a kilt!'. Um, okay, maybe the wrong answer.
No, it's the right answer. Have confidence in what you say.
I then tried to save the situation...
Stop with the overly dramatic descriptions and negative framing. You're just talking, not on a rescue mission.
She squirmed a bit, and somewhere even said something along the lines of 'well, nobody wants to hang out with me anyhow'. Hello, right in front of you?
If that's what you were thinking, you know who you should have said that to instead of AskMetafilter? Her! She gave you the perfect excuse to say, "I want to hang out with you."
3. Tips how not to screw this up.
Yeah, don't use negative framing like this.
Email to indirect? Phone to stalkish?
Email is perfect, but make sure you use good spelling. It's "too," not "to." Put care into your writing, down to the most minute details. If you can only find her phone number, go for the phone.
dunno if _I_ would answer an email because I couldn't think of a good enough answer/general flakiness.
That's a problem, but it's not a reason not to email her.
posted by John Cohen at 3:14 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
She is so obviously interested. Reread your own question -- all the details you've described are signals.
To which I replied 'that's a kilt!'. Um, okay, maybe the wrong answer.
No, it's the right answer. Have confidence in what you say.
I then tried to save the situation...
Stop with the overly dramatic descriptions and negative framing. You're just talking, not on a rescue mission.
She squirmed a bit, and somewhere even said something along the lines of 'well, nobody wants to hang out with me anyhow'. Hello, right in front of you?
If that's what you were thinking, you know who you should have said that to instead of AskMetafilter? Her! She gave you the perfect excuse to say, "I want to hang out with you."
3. Tips how not to screw this up.
Yeah, don't use negative framing like this.
Email to indirect? Phone to stalkish?
Email is perfect, but make sure you use good spelling. It's "too," not "to." Put care into your writing, down to the most minute details. If you can only find her phone number, go for the phone.
dunno if _I_ would answer an email because I couldn't think of a good enough answer/general flakiness.
That's a problem, but it's not a reason not to email her.
posted by John Cohen at 3:14 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
She squirmed a bit, and somewhere even said something along the lines of 'well, nobody wants to hang out with me anyhow'
Also for future reference, given the circumstances, I would say it is a worthwhile risk to ask her if she wants to go with you. Directly, in a datey kinda way. This doesn't mean you've done anything wrong, mind you, but she may have possibly been fishing for you to ask her to go.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:17 PM on September 6, 2010
Also for future reference, given the circumstances, I would say it is a worthwhile risk to ask her if she wants to go with you. Directly, in a datey kinda way. This doesn't mean you've done anything wrong, mind you, but she may have possibly been fishing for you to ask her to go.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:17 PM on September 6, 2010
and if you need three easy rules to stick with:
(1) eye contact (not staring but when the person of the opposite sex talks, you listen attentively and make eye contact).
(2) smile
(3) compliments. (obviously not "nice boobs, baby" but as you are talking, think of what it is that draws you to her. at some point that feels more comfortable than other points, let her know while executing rules one and two.)
The nerd's advantage is that you are smart and can talk and be charming.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:21 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
(1) eye contact (not staring but when the person of the opposite sex talks, you listen attentively and make eye contact).
(2) smile
(3) compliments. (obviously not "nice boobs, baby" but as you are talking, think of what it is that draws you to her. at some point that feels more comfortable than other points, let her know while executing rules one and two.)
The nerd's advantage is that you are smart and can talk and be charming.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:21 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I hate to burst your bubble with this particular girl, but I don't think she's as into you as you think she is. That's not to say you shouldn't try (after all, you've nothing to lose), but I think you're reading too much into your interactions when they're positive, and not enough when they're negative.
I first noticed her when she came to me and told me that I have a nice Tshirt.
She likes your shirt. Maybe she's into The Simpsons. It doesn't mean she's interested in you - it's the kind of random thing that can just be said, especially in a festival atmosphere.
Next day or so she also told me that I have a nice 'skirt' (didn't wear it before). To which I replied 'that's a kilt!'. Um, okay, maybe the wrong answer. I then tried to save the situation by pointing out that we were almost in partner look (green kilt/shorts, blue shirt).
It's not the 'wrong' answer, but it's not exactly flirtatious. What she said also wasn't exactly flirtatious. You also don't mention her reaction to your "we were almost partner".
I talked with her about it, that she only worked and never stayed for the social part of the evening. She squirmed a bit, and somewhere even said something along the lines of 'well, nobody wants to hang out with me anyhow'. Hello, right in front of you? Positive thing, that implies that she doesn't have a boyfriend.
She didn't want to spend time with you. I hate to be brutal, but if someone wants to spend time with you...they will. She was trying to be nice by saying she as a rule didn't stay for the social, and that nobody wants to hang out with her. She was being self-deprecating to soften the blow. It also doesn't imply anything. She may well have left to join a boyfriend.
...she said goodbye to me, called me the wrong name, but then didn't go but talked some time with someone from the kitchen where she helped the first few days. Felt a bit ignored that she didn't talk to me.
Calling you the wrong name and then not talking to you is another sign that she wasn't interested.
After she left, I went to the next village to buy some things, and saw her again in the supermarket, where she apologized profusely about calling me the wrong name.
As would anyone, she was being polite.
One thing that really makes me want to see her again: We had some leftover books (used as decoration) at the end of the festival, so I suggested that we have a good, old-fashioned book burning. To which she replied with a heartfelt 'noooooo!'. So endearing. Cute and nerdy... wow.
The fact that you like her doesn't mean that she likes you in the same way.
About contacting her: She's not on facebook, so no ultra-convenient way of contacting her. I know that she contacted one of the organisators via email, so I could ask around. I think I also found her phone number (she said she lives in an adjacent village. Found one person with her rather uncommon first name living in the next village). What would be better, email or phone? Email to indirect? Phone to stalkish? Phone would certainly be directer... dunno if _I_ would answer an email because I couldn't think of a good enough answer/general flakiness.
She didn't give you email or phone, and would have had plenty of opportunity to had she wanted to. It sounds a little stalky, I must be honest, to ask around for her email and look her up in the phonebook.
1. What's the best way to contact her/setting up a date? Don't
2. How to interpret her signals towards me? General friendliness? Interest? Something in between, something undefined? Polite stranger at a festival, trying to get along with coworkers, but not that into you.
3. Tips how not to screw this up. I really want to see her again, and I'd like to make it clear that I have a romantic interest in her, not just being friends. It doesn't sound like she's the least bit interested.
I hate to be a downer, but I don't think she was as into you as you think she was. Key things to take away from this though are:
- Whilst she may not be that into you, other girls certainly will be
- You shouldn't get knocked back by my prognosis. She obviously didn't find you repulsive, given that she hung out with you a bit, so obviously you have attractive traits. I simply suspect that this particular girl wasn't that into you.
- Keep going to festivals. Chat to girls, spend time chilling out with them. The ones who are happy just to sit around and kill time with you, and are interested in spending more time with you - those are the ones that are into you.
Of course, I'm going to add a massive caveat. You were the only one there - if you felt sparks, or you've omitted information that lends credence to the "she digs me" vibe, then certainly go for it. The way you've written it is quite simple and straightforward, so perhaps there's a whole atmosphere that I'm missing. In that case, I'd suggest email rather than phone to make contact, and have your phone number there after you sign off with your name. That way she can call if she wants to, but your method of contacting her hasn't given off any bad "you stalked the phonebook" vibe.
And hell, you might as well contact her anyway - the worst that happens is that she says no, or doesn't reply.
posted by djgh at 3:39 PM on September 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
I first noticed her when she came to me and told me that I have a nice Tshirt.
She likes your shirt. Maybe she's into The Simpsons. It doesn't mean she's interested in you - it's the kind of random thing that can just be said, especially in a festival atmosphere.
Next day or so she also told me that I have a nice 'skirt' (didn't wear it before). To which I replied 'that's a kilt!'. Um, okay, maybe the wrong answer. I then tried to save the situation by pointing out that we were almost in partner look (green kilt/shorts, blue shirt).
It's not the 'wrong' answer, but it's not exactly flirtatious. What she said also wasn't exactly flirtatious. You also don't mention her reaction to your "we were almost partner".
I talked with her about it, that she only worked and never stayed for the social part of the evening. She squirmed a bit, and somewhere even said something along the lines of 'well, nobody wants to hang out with me anyhow'. Hello, right in front of you? Positive thing, that implies that she doesn't have a boyfriend.
She didn't want to spend time with you. I hate to be brutal, but if someone wants to spend time with you...they will. She was trying to be nice by saying she as a rule didn't stay for the social, and that nobody wants to hang out with her. She was being self-deprecating to soften the blow. It also doesn't imply anything. She may well have left to join a boyfriend.
...she said goodbye to me, called me the wrong name, but then didn't go but talked some time with someone from the kitchen where she helped the first few days. Felt a bit ignored that she didn't talk to me.
Calling you the wrong name and then not talking to you is another sign that she wasn't interested.
After she left, I went to the next village to buy some things, and saw her again in the supermarket, where she apologized profusely about calling me the wrong name.
As would anyone, she was being polite.
One thing that really makes me want to see her again: We had some leftover books (used as decoration) at the end of the festival, so I suggested that we have a good, old-fashioned book burning. To which she replied with a heartfelt 'noooooo!'. So endearing. Cute and nerdy... wow.
The fact that you like her doesn't mean that she likes you in the same way.
About contacting her: She's not on facebook, so no ultra-convenient way of contacting her. I know that she contacted one of the organisators via email, so I could ask around. I think I also found her phone number (she said she lives in an adjacent village. Found one person with her rather uncommon first name living in the next village). What would be better, email or phone? Email to indirect? Phone to stalkish? Phone would certainly be directer... dunno if _I_ would answer an email because I couldn't think of a good enough answer/general flakiness.
She didn't give you email or phone, and would have had plenty of opportunity to had she wanted to. It sounds a little stalky, I must be honest, to ask around for her email and look her up in the phonebook.
1. What's the best way to contact her/setting up a date? Don't
2. How to interpret her signals towards me? General friendliness? Interest? Something in between, something undefined? Polite stranger at a festival, trying to get along with coworkers, but not that into you.
3. Tips how not to screw this up. I really want to see her again, and I'd like to make it clear that I have a romantic interest in her, not just being friends. It doesn't sound like she's the least bit interested.
I hate to be a downer, but I don't think she was as into you as you think she was. Key things to take away from this though are:
- Whilst she may not be that into you, other girls certainly will be
- You shouldn't get knocked back by my prognosis. She obviously didn't find you repulsive, given that she hung out with you a bit, so obviously you have attractive traits. I simply suspect that this particular girl wasn't that into you.
- Keep going to festivals. Chat to girls, spend time chilling out with them. The ones who are happy just to sit around and kill time with you, and are interested in spending more time with you - those are the ones that are into you.
Of course, I'm going to add a massive caveat. You were the only one there - if you felt sparks, or you've omitted information that lends credence to the "she digs me" vibe, then certainly go for it. The way you've written it is quite simple and straightforward, so perhaps there's a whole atmosphere that I'm missing. In that case, I'd suggest email rather than phone to make contact, and have your phone number there after you sign off with your name. That way she can call if she wants to, but your method of contacting her hasn't given off any bad "you stalked the phonebook" vibe.
And hell, you might as well contact her anyway - the worst that happens is that she says no, or doesn't reply.
posted by djgh at 3:39 PM on September 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
John Cohen has a point. Check this out. I'm just going to remove the parts of your description which are negative assumptions and statements:
posted by griphus at 3:44 PM on September 6, 2010
A bit more of the situation: I first noticed her when she came to me and told me that I have a nice Tshirt. It was a Simpsons shirt. Next day or so she also told me that I have a nice 'skirt' (didn't wear it before). To which I replied 'that's a kilt!'. I then [pointed] out that we were almost in partner look (green kilt/shorts, blue shirt).Try to use that as your basis for future interaction with her.
Unfortunately she never stayed in the evening. I talked with her about it, that she only worked and never stayed for the social part of the evening. She said something along the lines of 'well, nobody wants to hang out with me anyhow'. Positive thing, that implies that she doesn't have a boyfriend. I also only helped at the festival. She also told me once that she likes nerds - she [may think] of me as a nerd.
posted by griphus at 3:44 PM on September 6, 2010
I agree with djgh. I'm a young woman, and this girl's responses are the sort of thing I say and do when I'm not interested in someone but don't want to be rude.
The next time you see her, though, I'd say ask her out regardless. Maybe I'm wrong, and she really is into you. If she's not, then at least you can find out now rather than after you've spent lots of time following her around like a sad puppy. Just don't do anything stalky like continuing to search for ways to contact her online-- if you go that route and she finds out, it won't be pretty.
posted by oinopaponton at 3:53 PM on September 6, 2010
The next time you see her, though, I'd say ask her out regardless. Maybe I'm wrong, and she really is into you. If she's not, then at least you can find out now rather than after you've spent lots of time following her around like a sad puppy. Just don't do anything stalky like continuing to search for ways to contact her online-- if you go that route and she finds out, it won't be pretty.
posted by oinopaponton at 3:53 PM on September 6, 2010
She didn't want to spend time with you. I hate to be brutal, but if someone wants to spend time with you...they will.
The problem with that way of interpreting things is that a lot of women in the dating world feel it's too forward to make the first move, and the boldest thing they can do is make indirect hints and hope the man picks up on them. I wish there weren't this double standard and everyone always directly pursued their goals, but it's a fact of life and it's relevant to interpreting her behavior.
posted by John Cohen at 3:56 PM on September 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
The problem with that way of interpreting things is that a lot of women in the dating world feel it's too forward to make the first move, and the boldest thing they can do is make indirect hints and hope the man picks up on them. I wish there weren't this double standard and everyone always directly pursued their goals, but it's a fact of life and it's relevant to interpreting her behavior.
posted by John Cohen at 3:56 PM on September 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
If you end up sending an email or leaving a message her phone, be sure to finish off by asking a question. I learned this tip from my English teacher years ago and it really does work wonders.
This is bad: "Hi... Anyways, just wanted to say it was fun talking with you. -roerek"
It's just a statement and doesn't really direct her to any action.
This is better: "Hi... Anyways, do you like coffee? I was thinking of going for coffee on Saturday. Would you like to come so we can catch up? Let me know. :) -roerek"
By adding some questions (especially something easy to answer like "yes" or "no" to liking coffee) guides her towards replying soon since she now has been instructed to do something and a reply is expected. Much less chance of failure or forgetting to reply.
Just a tip that I've found to work really well in all situations.
posted by Kippersoft at 4:08 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is bad: "Hi... Anyways, just wanted to say it was fun talking with you. -roerek"
It's just a statement and doesn't really direct her to any action.
This is better: "Hi... Anyways, do you like coffee? I was thinking of going for coffee on Saturday. Would you like to come so we can catch up? Let me know. :) -roerek"
By adding some questions (especially something easy to answer like "yes" or "no" to liking coffee) guides her towards replying soon since she now has been instructed to do something and a reply is expected. Much less chance of failure or forgetting to reply.
Just a tip that I've found to work really well in all situations.
posted by Kippersoft at 4:08 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
The problem with that way of interpreting things is that a lot of women in the dating world feel it's too forward to make the first move, and the boldest thing they can do is make indirect hints and hope the man picks up on them.
Even if this were always true (and often it isn't), this girl forgot his name. It doesn't mean she necessarily wouldn't be into the OP if she got to know him, but it's a pretty good sign she isn't daintily sitting by the phone waiting for him to track her down.
posted by oinopaponton at 4:10 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Even if this were always true (and often it isn't), this girl forgot his name. It doesn't mean she necessarily wouldn't be into the OP if she got to know him, but it's a pretty good sign she isn't daintily sitting by the phone waiting for him to track her down.
posted by oinopaponton at 4:10 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Even if this were always true (and often it isn't), this girl forgot his name. It doesn't mean she necessarily wouldn't be into the OP if she got to know him, but it's a pretty good sign she isn't daintily sitting by the phone waiting for him to track her down.
Look, we could keep giving back-and-forth interpretations of what exactly was in her head. There's a limit to how much we should enable the OP in this kind of overinterpretation. I wasn't saying she had a huge crush on him or was daintily doing anything -- I just think she had enough interest for it to be worth the OP taking a chance and asking her out.
Have you ever forgotten someone's name but still been receptive to going on a date with them if they were to ask you? I certainly have!
posted by John Cohen at 4:18 PM on September 6, 2010
Look, we could keep giving back-and-forth interpretations of what exactly was in her head. There's a limit to how much we should enable the OP in this kind of overinterpretation. I wasn't saying she had a huge crush on him or was daintily doing anything -- I just think she had enough interest for it to be worth the OP taking a chance and asking her out.
Have you ever forgotten someone's name but still been receptive to going on a date with them if they were to ask you? I certainly have!
posted by John Cohen at 4:18 PM on September 6, 2010
John Cohen, while that is true (and the OP is essentially asking if that’s what’s going on here) I tend to agree that in this situation she’s probably not hinting to be asked out. I thought, at first, that it was obvious she was into him, until the OP got to part about not remembering his name. That’s a big sign that OP is not who she’s pining over at night, but just “some guy” to her.
Let’s break it down:
The nice T-shirt comment- While compliments are usually a safe bet for flirting, this was the first thing she ever said to you. I mean, she didn’t even know you, correct? And you didn’t know her? So odds are she was just trying to be friendly.
Nice skirt- This can be interpreted as teasing. Teasing is sometimes flirting, sometimes being sort of borderline mean or flippant. It could go either way.
The partner look thing- What was her reaction?
No one wants to hang out with me- Either excusing herself for not wanting to hang out with you, “it’s not you, it’s me” – OR a huge hint for you to reply “I do” – which you didn’t.
Wrong name, not talking to you – Big red flag, sorry.
Book burning- While you may have thought you were being cute, if she’s as much a nerd as you think, she might actually have winced that you would say “book burning” – I would. Well, maybe that's a little harsh...
I recommend that you don’t just ask her out right away, but that you go up to her, and try some of the same tactics on her. Tactics being things like, compliment her shirt, tease her, actually have a full length conversation with her, and then see where it goes. But having an actual conversation that you initiate should probably happen before you ask her out on a date even if she is into you.
posted by Nixy at 4:20 PM on September 6, 2010
Let’s break it down:
The nice T-shirt comment- While compliments are usually a safe bet for flirting, this was the first thing she ever said to you. I mean, she didn’t even know you, correct? And you didn’t know her? So odds are she was just trying to be friendly.
Nice skirt- This can be interpreted as teasing. Teasing is sometimes flirting, sometimes being sort of borderline mean or flippant. It could go either way.
The partner look thing- What was her reaction?
No one wants to hang out with me- Either excusing herself for not wanting to hang out with you, “it’s not you, it’s me” – OR a huge hint for you to reply “I do” – which you didn’t.
Wrong name, not talking to you – Big red flag, sorry.
Book burning- While you may have thought you were being cute, if she’s as much a nerd as you think, she might actually have winced that you would say “book burning” – I would. Well, maybe that's a little harsh...
I recommend that you don’t just ask her out right away, but that you go up to her, and try some of the same tactics on her. Tactics being things like, compliment her shirt, tease her, actually have a full length conversation with her, and then see where it goes. But having an actual conversation that you initiate should probably happen before you ask her out on a date even if she is into you.
posted by Nixy at 4:20 PM on September 6, 2010
But having an actual conversation that you initiate should probably happen before you ask her out on a date even if she is into you.
Well how in the heck are they are going to have a conversation if he doesn't ask her to have a cup of coffee?
About her signals: Look, maybe she's into you, maybe she's not. It is not your job to figure it out. You want to see her again; that's enough. Ask her out and see what she says. Then you'll know where you stand. Please ignore the negative answers here. She may well say no, but you won't know until you try.
(FWIW, I know how hard it is to think this way when you're shy and clueless, but I honestly think I would be better off if I thought this way.)
About the logistics: I'd go with the email. Reason being, it's less effort to get her email than to get her number, so it comes off as a little less intense/desperate.
posted by sesquipedalian at 5:02 PM on September 6, 2010
Well how in the heck are they are going to have a conversation if he doesn't ask her to have a cup of coffee?
About her signals: Look, maybe she's into you, maybe she's not. It is not your job to figure it out. You want to see her again; that's enough. Ask her out and see what she says. Then you'll know where you stand. Please ignore the negative answers here. She may well say no, but you won't know until you try.
(FWIW, I know how hard it is to think this way when you're shy and clueless, but I honestly think I would be better off if I thought this way.)
About the logistics: I'd go with the email. Reason being, it's less effort to get her email than to get her number, so it comes off as a little less intense/desperate.
posted by sesquipedalian at 5:02 PM on September 6, 2010
Best answer: The problem with that way of interpreting things is that a lot of women in the dating world feel it's too forward to make the first move, and the boldest thing they can do is make indirect hints and hope the man picks up on them. I wish there weren't this double standard and everyone always directly pursued their goals, but it's a fact of life and it's relevant to interpreting her behavior.
Agreed. We really weren't there. We don't know what was happening and neither does the OP. It could be both, liked him at first, didn't like him later or didn't like him at first, liked him later or any combination.
Here's the deal: since none of us know, its worth a try. Maybe she says yes, maybe she says no. it isn't the greatest thing since the moon landing if she says yes and it isn't the fall of rome if she says no. A simple email will do. "I had a great time chatting with you would you like to go for coffee?"
The key is getting the ball rolling. OP, you don't know it yet, but you are taking first steps into a wider and better world. I say go for it and let the chips fall where they may. This is as good a place to start as anywhere.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:55 PM on September 6, 2010
Agreed. We really weren't there. We don't know what was happening and neither does the OP. It could be both, liked him at first, didn't like him later or didn't like him at first, liked him later or any combination.
Here's the deal: since none of us know, its worth a try. Maybe she says yes, maybe she says no. it isn't the greatest thing since the moon landing if she says yes and it isn't the fall of rome if she says no. A simple email will do. "I had a great time chatting with you would you like to go for coffee?"
The key is getting the ball rolling. OP, you don't know it yet, but you are taking first steps into a wider and better world. I say go for it and let the chips fall where they may. This is as good a place to start as anywhere.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:55 PM on September 6, 2010
As I read through a lot of this comments, it sounds like some sort of tea leaves interpretation; I don’t believe we will be able to figure out if she likes you or not – we didn’t see the her, you, body language, etc., and in the end you probably have everyone projecting what they would do/have done/etc.
However, I’m going to write about another part of your question. I once went to some event and met a few people, including a guy that I exchanged a few pleasantries with during conversation, joked around a bit, enough that I remembered it as a pleasant conversation.
I never realized it, but as part of participating in that event, everyone that attended had to log in and register by email, so it was easy for him to email me the next day and say something along these lines; “I really enjoyed meeting you, I remembered that you liked X so I thought that you may enjoy Y (with a link to a funny video about Y), would you like to go with me this Friday night to get dinner and drinks at place W at time Z.”
To be honest, I was flattered, and did meet him that Friday night. I wasn’t quite sure if it was a date, but when he showed up he kept talking about how nervous he was so I could see his intentions from that and for me I actually thought the shyness was cute, but everyone is a bit different on that.
I ended up dating that guy for a few months. So I’m just one anecdotal data point saying that an email invite for a date after a one-time conversation worked. Looking back, it may have been better if that guy would have written the word “date” so that there would be no initial ambiguity.
Sometimes I’ve gotten the attention of guys that I’m not interested in dating, too, and usually in person or on the phone the guy asks to go on a date. I’ve never judged them harshly or reacted in a negative way just because they ask for a date, and believe it or not, you even feel flattered.
posted by Wolfster at 6:35 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
However, I’m going to write about another part of your question. I once went to some event and met a few people, including a guy that I exchanged a few pleasantries with during conversation, joked around a bit, enough that I remembered it as a pleasant conversation.
I never realized it, but as part of participating in that event, everyone that attended had to log in and register by email, so it was easy for him to email me the next day and say something along these lines; “I really enjoyed meeting you, I remembered that you liked X so I thought that you may enjoy Y (with a link to a funny video about Y), would you like to go with me this Friday night to get dinner and drinks at place W at time Z.”
To be honest, I was flattered, and did meet him that Friday night. I wasn’t quite sure if it was a date, but when he showed up he kept talking about how nervous he was so I could see his intentions from that and for me I actually thought the shyness was cute, but everyone is a bit different on that.
I ended up dating that guy for a few months. So I’m just one anecdotal data point saying that an email invite for a date after a one-time conversation worked. Looking back, it may have been better if that guy would have written the word “date” so that there would be no initial ambiguity.
Sometimes I’ve gotten the attention of guys that I’m not interested in dating, too, and usually in person or on the phone the guy asks to go on a date. I’ve never judged them harshly or reacted in a negative way just because they ask for a date, and believe it or not, you even feel flattered.
posted by Wolfster at 6:35 PM on September 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Generally speaking, it freaks me out when someone contacts me without me giving him my contact information. While in this day and age, phone numbers, email addresses (and physical addresses even!) are easy to come by with the help of the internet, it doesn't mean that you should use that information to contact her. Looking her up in the phonebook and contacting her that way would definitely come off as stalker-ish to me. Getting her email from a friend is less stalkerish. The lesson to be learned here is that if you're interested in a girl, get her phone number/email address/facebook/etc.
I have to agree with some of the comments already made about how she's not as into you as you think. For one thing, the wrong name is a red flag. A girl doesn't often forget the name of the guy she's interested in.
Live and learn for the next go around. There are more girls out there! Good luck~
posted by p1nkdaisy at 6:55 PM on September 6, 2010
I have to agree with some of the comments already made about how she's not as into you as you think. For one thing, the wrong name is a red flag. A girl doesn't often forget the name of the guy she's interested in.
Live and learn for the next go around. There are more girls out there! Good luck~
posted by p1nkdaisy at 6:55 PM on September 6, 2010
The key is getting the ball rolling. OP, you don't know it yet, but you are taking first steps into a wider and better world.
I was just coming in to say this. Things might not work out with this particular girl, but that's okay. Each interaction will build your confidence, and eventually it won't be as hard.
The lesson to be learned here is that if you're interested in a girl, get her phone number/email address/facebook/etc.
I tend to agree. If a guy I barely knew--and had barely spoken to--tracked me down and asked me out, it would seem a little creepy. It would definitely be better to ask her out in person. If you won't see her again, I would consider her your "Step 1" and move on.
posted by lucysparrow at 7:43 PM on September 6, 2010
I was just coming in to say this. Things might not work out with this particular girl, but that's okay. Each interaction will build your confidence, and eventually it won't be as hard.
The lesson to be learned here is that if you're interested in a girl, get her phone number/email address/facebook/etc.
I tend to agree. If a guy I barely knew--and had barely spoken to--tracked me down and asked me out, it would seem a little creepy. It would definitely be better to ask her out in person. If you won't see her again, I would consider her your "Step 1" and move on.
posted by lucysparrow at 7:43 PM on September 6, 2010
If she's not into you, it's fine. Someone will be. It's not because you did something 'wrong', it's just because not everything is meant to come together.
Ask her for a coffee. If she says no, or just seems friendly, then be a friend rather than trying to force anything (THAT is creepy). And she might have a friend that thinks you're just adorable.
posted by mippy at 6:17 AM on September 7, 2010
Ask her for a coffee. If she says no, or just seems friendly, then be a friend rather than trying to force anything (THAT is creepy). And she might have a friend that thinks you're just adorable.
posted by mippy at 6:17 AM on September 7, 2010
I'm mostly answering number 4, but this hits a couple of the others along the way.
All the back and forth about this girl in this thread probably echoes what's going on in your head. For what it's worth, I think she probably likes you enough that she'd go out with you, but I'd be surprised if she's been thinking about you as much as you've been thinking about her. And there's a good reason for this: you've been thinking about her for too long.
What you're doing here is the way I used to approach women. I'd find one that I liked and start dancing around her, getting to know her a little better and analyzing everything she said. What I was trying to do was to collect enough data that I could be sure she was going to say yes before I asked her out. There were two problems with that. The first was that while I was doing this I was getting more and more invested in her in my head, and so the stakes of asking her out came to seem higher and higher. Suddenly she wasn't just a cute girl I'd like to get to know better, she was my best shot at happiness, and it would be catastrophic if she said no (does that sound familiar?) The other problem is that while I was flailing around trying to work up my nerve, some other guy would usually just ask her out, and I would have missed my chance.
In the past couple of years I've changed my MO - the new rule was that interesting single women get asked out after I've met them once, maybe twice. I got rejected a lot more than I used to, if rejection means that a girl very nicely tells me she's not that interested. But if rejection means not getting to date someone, I got rejected a lot less, since I wasn't missing out on all these opportunities by spending time in my own head. And the rejection stings a lot less when you haven't had time to build up a whole thing in your head. Also, I asked out my current amazing girlfriend after meeting her once and talking to her for like 45 minutes. I found out later that she was enmeshed in silly indecisive boy drama at the time, and I just showed up and took her out of it. So now I'm one of those guys. Go figure.
So please, ask this girl out. She might say yes, she might say no. If she says yes, then congratulations, you get a date. If she says no, then congratulations, you get to learn that it's ok when they say no (and it really is). Either way, congratulations, you get to put an end to the agonizing and feel good that you took action. It's win-win as far as I'm concerned.
posted by Ragged Richard at 7:51 AM on September 7, 2010
All the back and forth about this girl in this thread probably echoes what's going on in your head. For what it's worth, I think she probably likes you enough that she'd go out with you, but I'd be surprised if she's been thinking about you as much as you've been thinking about her. And there's a good reason for this: you've been thinking about her for too long.
What you're doing here is the way I used to approach women. I'd find one that I liked and start dancing around her, getting to know her a little better and analyzing everything she said. What I was trying to do was to collect enough data that I could be sure she was going to say yes before I asked her out. There were two problems with that. The first was that while I was doing this I was getting more and more invested in her in my head, and so the stakes of asking her out came to seem higher and higher. Suddenly she wasn't just a cute girl I'd like to get to know better, she was my best shot at happiness, and it would be catastrophic if she said no (does that sound familiar?) The other problem is that while I was flailing around trying to work up my nerve, some other guy would usually just ask her out, and I would have missed my chance.
In the past couple of years I've changed my MO - the new rule was that interesting single women get asked out after I've met them once, maybe twice. I got rejected a lot more than I used to, if rejection means that a girl very nicely tells me she's not that interested. But if rejection means not getting to date someone, I got rejected a lot less, since I wasn't missing out on all these opportunities by spending time in my own head. And the rejection stings a lot less when you haven't had time to build up a whole thing in your head. Also, I asked out my current amazing girlfriend after meeting her once and talking to her for like 45 minutes. I found out later that she was enmeshed in silly indecisive boy drama at the time, and I just showed up and took her out of it. So now I'm one of those guys. Go figure.
So please, ask this girl out. She might say yes, she might say no. If she says yes, then congratulations, you get a date. If she says no, then congratulations, you get to learn that it's ok when they say no (and it really is). Either way, congratulations, you get to put an end to the agonizing and feel good that you took action. It's win-win as far as I'm concerned.
posted by Ragged Richard at 7:51 AM on September 7, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks to everybody who took the time to answer me.
I had a good night's sleep over what you said so far.
One thing became clear to me.
I have no clue what's going on in her head.
All of her actions were ambiguous.
I might be a newbie at dating, but I can see if somebody turns a cold shoulder to me.
She didn't - but she also didn't send overly positive signals.
I once thought 'Scream at me that I should go away, then at least I'd knew what you're thinking!'
She's very shy, I think even more so than me.
Her 'nobody wants to hang out with me' sounded very sincere, sad, and a little depressed.
Yes she might be a cold fish, unable to even properly reject me.
But a lot of her reminds me of how I would've reacted to several things not a year ago.
Two 'socially challenged' persons who might be a good match? One 'socially challenged' dude who just doesn't get the negative clues?
That's what I have to find out - and asking here only gives clues, not an answer.
posted by roerek at 9:13 AM on September 7, 2010
I had a good night's sleep over what you said so far.
One thing became clear to me.
I have no clue what's going on in her head.
All of her actions were ambiguous.
I might be a newbie at dating, but I can see if somebody turns a cold shoulder to me.
She didn't - but she also didn't send overly positive signals.
I once thought 'Scream at me that I should go away, then at least I'd knew what you're thinking!'
She's very shy, I think even more so than me.
Her 'nobody wants to hang out with me' sounded very sincere, sad, and a little depressed.
Yes she might be a cold fish, unable to even properly reject me.
But a lot of her reminds me of how I would've reacted to several things not a year ago.
Two 'socially challenged' persons who might be a good match? One 'socially challenged' dude who just doesn't get the negative clues?
That's what I have to find out - and asking here only gives clues, not an answer.
posted by roerek at 9:13 AM on September 7, 2010
I once thought 'Scream at me that I should go away, then at least I'd knew what you're thinking!'
There's that negative framing again. You keep suggesting that you really want things to turn out badly for you and it'd be some weird fluke if they didn't. You have to cut out the negative language. You do not deserve to be screamed at.
posted by John Cohen at 9:18 AM on September 7, 2010
There's that negative framing again. You keep suggesting that you really want things to turn out badly for you and it'd be some weird fluke if they didn't. You have to cut out the negative language. You do not deserve to be screamed at.
posted by John Cohen at 9:18 AM on September 7, 2010
Response by poster: Ok, last post looks a lot like 'all done, thanks for your input'.
I'd be grateful anyway for more comments - especially because I omitted several things about her personality in my original question.
Yes, I have to find out the answer to the question I posted last, but more clues would be welcome anyway.
posted by roerek at 9:18 AM on September 7, 2010
I'd be grateful anyway for more comments - especially because I omitted several things about her personality in my original question.
Yes, I have to find out the answer to the question I posted last, but more clues would be welcome anyway.
posted by roerek at 9:18 AM on September 7, 2010
I think you should ask her out - Kippersoft gives some great advice on that front. I would specify that it is a date and give a definite time and place. This gives her an easy out (ie she says she's busy that day and doesn't suggest other options vs she has to reject you hard or pretend that she is constantly busy).
You're right - it's unclear from her actions whether she likes you or not. But, the only way you'll find out is to ask her. The ball is in your court, and you can nudge it back towards you. If you do it in a respectful, non-creepy way and give her an easy out you're golden in my opinion.
I'm glad people have pointed out that she's not head-over heels in love with you, because too often I've seen social awkward guys decide a girl is a tease and explode in rage after being kindly rejected. So, it's probably not an issue for you, but remember that she has her own motivations and doesn't owe you anything. Some people are just naturally friendly/flirty to everyone.
posted by fermezporte at 2:08 PM on September 7, 2010
You're right - it's unclear from her actions whether she likes you or not. But, the only way you'll find out is to ask her. The ball is in your court, and you can nudge it back towards you. If you do it in a respectful, non-creepy way and give her an easy out you're golden in my opinion.
I'm glad people have pointed out that she's not head-over heels in love with you, because too often I've seen social awkward guys decide a girl is a tease and explode in rage after being kindly rejected. So, it's probably not an issue for you, but remember that she has her own motivations and doesn't owe you anything. Some people are just naturally friendly/flirty to everyone.
posted by fermezporte at 2:08 PM on September 7, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Confidence is important before, during and after the actions you take. Always have confidence in the fact that you said and did the right thing. Not so much that you don't learn from your mistakes, but enough that not everything you say is to be double-guessed.
This girl digs you. Or, at least, is interested by you in a way that is not insignificant. "No one wants to hang out with me"? "I like nerds"? Got all cute when you mentioned a book burning party (which, and I commend you on this, is a hell of a gambit and you pulled it off quite well)? If you are misreading this situation, that makes two of us.
Unless this was some sort of ultra-formal thing, and you're close enough with the organizer to ask, go one and ask for her email address. Or ask them to pass along yours if it is a privacy thing. The phonebook thing seems a little weird to me, but we're in grossly different environments.
Phoning is the best option, especially as you seem to be able to carry on a conversation and be witty and all that. Don't make it too deep, don't talk about your sordid past and make sure you ask her to go get some coffee/a drink/whatever at the end. Some commentators here will have aversions to this, but if you're particularly concerned, just straight up ask her on a date when you do. That is, use the word "date." She says yes to that, there's no ambiguity.
posted by griphus at 2:52 PM on September 6, 2010