Help us get from yappy to happy
September 1, 2010 9:55 AM Subscribe
We just adopted an adult Jack Russell mix last Friday. She's amazingly calm and quiet... until we leave for work. That's when the barking starts. Help us brainstorm a solution to keep everyone -- pup, us, neighbors -- happy.
We adopted an amazing little doggie named Dali last week through a shelter. (Obligatory picture.) Before she came to us, Dali was in a foster home. The foster mom was gone all day, but she was with two other non-foster dogs. Before that, she was in a home where one human (a grad student) was home all day.
When we had her over the weekend, she was the perfect little lady. Really calm and quiet, especially for a Jack Russell. I only heard her bark a couple times. She wasn't destructive in the least- no chewing, no accidents. She followed one of us EVERYWHERE, though, which was the first worrying sign. The second came when we got her a wire crate and tried a trial home-alone time for a half hour, in our bedroom with a closed door. She barked straight through. Since she was so well-behaved otherwise, we decided not to crate her on Monday, since that's what the foster mom had done, and said she'd be fine.
Mrs Supercres and I work roughly normal hours during the week: 10-7 and 10-6, respectively. We weren't sure what to expect. We planning on Mrs S coming home in the early afternoon for a visit and a trip to the backyard, and we did that on Monday and Tuesday. Every time one of us has gotten home, Dali has become extremely excited. We haven't been rewarding her by greeting her excitedly-- we know you're supposed to be calm when leaving and returning. Both days, she was well-behaved while we were gone; absolutely no signs of chewing, though she did have one accident.
Yesterday, we hooked up a wifi webcam to keep an eye on her. Mrs S left the house at 10:15 this morning, and Dali has been on barking/howling/crying jags since then-- two and a half hours so far. She'll look out the window, be quiet for about ten seconds, start barking without provocation, run across the living room (away from the window) while howling, get quiet again, and run back to the window. Over and over and over, and it's been two hours now. The silent times have increased slightly, but we're of course worried that she's being a nuisance. (Also, that she's miserable.)
(We're in a townhome in a neighborhood where a lot of people have dogs, and leave them outside to bark. We're really only worried about the two houses we share walls with, and one of them is empty.)
I think it's obvious that she's become too attached to us, and experiences pretty bad separation anxiety as soon as we leave. We'd like to keep her occupied, but I think her sadness is outweighing her boredom at this point. Really, we'd just like her to do what she does when we're around: go to sleep on her bed or a chair.
Some questions:
-- She's new to us, so we expect this to get better with time. Is there anything we can do to hurry that along?
-- Should we not let her look out the window? That seems like the only time she's not barking, but it might just be reminding her that we're not there, and the cycle starts all over. (She likes sitting on the windowsill.)
-- Should we go back to our original plan of crate-training her? I guess she won't be able to do this window-barking-searching-howling cycle when her surroundings aren't changing, but she might also just get worked up because she's not usually in the crate.
-- I've taken her on a walk every morning before we've left, but there's a little time between walk and leaving. Should we leave immediately after getting home from the walk?
-- Does leaving NPR or news radio on really work?
-- Is there any AMAZING dog toy we could get her that would make her forget we're even gone? I don't think she's bored; she has toys and chewables scattered about. She just seems too proccupied to notice them. (Plus, she doesn't play with toys much normally.) My next try is a Kong stuffed with peanut butter and frozen.
-- Is the afternoon visit a bad idea? Her bladder can take it... I think.
We're willing to do just about anything to help little Dali out. We don't want to get something like a bark collar, because even though that will stop the obvious annoying symptom, she'll still be anxious.
Would medication of some kind help her out? I've heard of dogs going on puppy Prozac. Really, I would just be happy if she would sleep through the day, like I expected her to do.
I've seen these questions: one two three four, and this website, which were all at least a little helpful. If you have any more, or personal experience, I'd love to hear it.
I'm beginning to this the webcam was a bad idea... it's breaking our hearts. But better that we know, right?
We adopted an amazing little doggie named Dali last week through a shelter. (Obligatory picture.) Before she came to us, Dali was in a foster home. The foster mom was gone all day, but she was with two other non-foster dogs. Before that, she was in a home where one human (a grad student) was home all day.
When we had her over the weekend, she was the perfect little lady. Really calm and quiet, especially for a Jack Russell. I only heard her bark a couple times. She wasn't destructive in the least- no chewing, no accidents. She followed one of us EVERYWHERE, though, which was the first worrying sign. The second came when we got her a wire crate and tried a trial home-alone time for a half hour, in our bedroom with a closed door. She barked straight through. Since she was so well-behaved otherwise, we decided not to crate her on Monday, since that's what the foster mom had done, and said she'd be fine.
Mrs Supercres and I work roughly normal hours during the week: 10-7 and 10-6, respectively. We weren't sure what to expect. We planning on Mrs S coming home in the early afternoon for a visit and a trip to the backyard, and we did that on Monday and Tuesday. Every time one of us has gotten home, Dali has become extremely excited. We haven't been rewarding her by greeting her excitedly-- we know you're supposed to be calm when leaving and returning. Both days, she was well-behaved while we were gone; absolutely no signs of chewing, though she did have one accident.
Yesterday, we hooked up a wifi webcam to keep an eye on her. Mrs S left the house at 10:15 this morning, and Dali has been on barking/howling/crying jags since then-- two and a half hours so far. She'll look out the window, be quiet for about ten seconds, start barking without provocation, run across the living room (away from the window) while howling, get quiet again, and run back to the window. Over and over and over, and it's been two hours now. The silent times have increased slightly, but we're of course worried that she's being a nuisance. (Also, that she's miserable.)
(We're in a townhome in a neighborhood where a lot of people have dogs, and leave them outside to bark. We're really only worried about the two houses we share walls with, and one of them is empty.)
I think it's obvious that she's become too attached to us, and experiences pretty bad separation anxiety as soon as we leave. We'd like to keep her occupied, but I think her sadness is outweighing her boredom at this point. Really, we'd just like her to do what she does when we're around: go to sleep on her bed or a chair.
Some questions:
-- She's new to us, so we expect this to get better with time. Is there anything we can do to hurry that along?
-- Should we not let her look out the window? That seems like the only time she's not barking, but it might just be reminding her that we're not there, and the cycle starts all over. (She likes sitting on the windowsill.)
-- Should we go back to our original plan of crate-training her? I guess she won't be able to do this window-barking-searching-howling cycle when her surroundings aren't changing, but she might also just get worked up because she's not usually in the crate.
-- I've taken her on a walk every morning before we've left, but there's a little time between walk and leaving. Should we leave immediately after getting home from the walk?
-- Does leaving NPR or news radio on really work?
-- Is there any AMAZING dog toy we could get her that would make her forget we're even gone? I don't think she's bored; she has toys and chewables scattered about. She just seems too proccupied to notice them. (Plus, she doesn't play with toys much normally.) My next try is a Kong stuffed with peanut butter and frozen.
-- Is the afternoon visit a bad idea? Her bladder can take it... I think.
We're willing to do just about anything to help little Dali out. We don't want to get something like a bark collar, because even though that will stop the obvious annoying symptom, she'll still be anxious.
Would medication of some kind help her out? I've heard of dogs going on puppy Prozac. Really, I would just be happy if she would sleep through the day, like I expected her to do.
I've seen these questions: one two three four, and this website, which were all at least a little helpful. If you have any more, or personal experience, I'd love to hear it.
I'm beginning to this the webcam was a bad idea... it's breaking our hearts. But better that we know, right?
Some dogs do better in crates than others. It kind of sounds like yours is a little happier being able to explore and look out the window, so I'd leave her out for now.
Peanut butter Kong is awesome. It can also be packed with layers of pretty much anything; kibble, carrots, , cheese, chicken, whatever. I wouldn't use medication except as a last resort.
This is going to be a strange suggestion, and I'm not saying it as "this will fix your problem", but more "here's something you and your wife can think about." At her foster home, she was alone with a few other dogs. Maybe she would do better with another doggy companion? If you're not in the position to adopt a second dog, maybe think about doggy day-care or somewhere else that she can socialize while you're gone?
posted by specialagentwebb at 10:04 AM on September 1, 2010
Peanut butter Kong is awesome. It can also be packed with layers of pretty much anything; kibble, carrots, , cheese, chicken, whatever. I wouldn't use medication except as a last resort.
This is going to be a strange suggestion, and I'm not saying it as "this will fix your problem", but more "here's something you and your wife can think about." At her foster home, she was alone with a few other dogs. Maybe she would do better with another doggy companion? If you're not in the position to adopt a second dog, maybe think about doggy day-care or somewhere else that she can socialize while you're gone?
posted by specialagentwebb at 10:04 AM on September 1, 2010
This is a tough one. How long is she left alone? If more than 4-5 hours, you're going to have barking. She is lonely, she is bored and she misses you. What to do? Ultimately, come back to visit her throughout the day. That no do-able? Get someone to come in every 3-4 hours to play with her. Your work day is forever for her. She doesn't understand that you will come home - she just understands that you're leaving and won't come back. Dog-sitter or you work shorter hours or come home to be with her until she can overcome this period - which is really an adjustment period on all levels - new home, new schedules - new feelings. A dog is not furniture, please help her get through this without too much stress. It will be worth it in the end because instead of a stressed out dog that chews up the house and barks insanely, she will be calm, happy and secure with zero need to act out her frustrations.
posted by watercarrier at 10:11 AM on September 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by watercarrier at 10:11 AM on September 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
I would just be happy if she would sleep through the day, like I expected her to do.
Are you tiring her out on her morning walk?
posted by Meg_Murry at 10:12 AM on September 1, 2010
Are you tiring her out on her morning walk?
posted by Meg_Murry at 10:12 AM on September 1, 2010
My dog loves looking out the window- it's probably one of her favorite things to do next to belly rubs. However, she used to cry constantly when I left unless I crated her. After a few years of great behavior in a crate with a big comfy dog bed in it, I now leave it open during the day, and she's usually asleep inside of it when I get home. No more crying. So don't let the fact that she likes looking out the window stop you from crate training.
Jack Russels have a LOT of energy- you might try a bike ride instead of a walk in the morning to really tire her out. I can give you advice on that if you're interested, just memail me.
posted by emilyd22222 at 10:14 AM on September 1, 2010
Jack Russels have a LOT of energy- you might try a bike ride instead of a walk in the morning to really tire her out. I can give you advice on that if you're interested, just memail me.
posted by emilyd22222 at 10:14 AM on September 1, 2010
It's probably separation anxiety, which is common in adopted dogs. The ASPCA has some great tips on how to overcome this. You are doing really great, I think. We had to crate train ours, because he was so panicky that he was destructive. I like crate training anyway, because it is a safe place for the dog to go when there is a lot of commotion, or whatever.
Nthing the kong toy suggestion. If you want your little cutie to be occupied for even longer, you can get two and freeze them alternately. It takes that much longer for them to get all the peanut butter out.
An adult dog should be able to hold out on peeing for 13 hours, as I understand. We have never left it that long, but it's reassuring to know.
posted by annsunny at 10:19 AM on September 1, 2010
Nthing the kong toy suggestion. If you want your little cutie to be occupied for even longer, you can get two and freeze them alternately. It takes that much longer for them to get all the peanut butter out.
An adult dog should be able to hold out on peeing for 13 hours, as I understand. We have never left it that long, but it's reassuring to know.
posted by annsunny at 10:19 AM on September 1, 2010
Response by poster: What to do? Ultimately, come back to visit her throughout the day.
That's in my over-long question. It is possible, but we're worried it will just get her as worked up as when we left the first time. My guess is that she'll get better as the day goes on, and I worry that a midday visit will reset the clock, so to speak.
I should also add that we both grew up with dogs. We know exactly what's involved with owning a dog. I would hope that the fact that I posted a question like this would serve as evidence of our concern -- incredible, almost excessive concern -- over her feelings.
I appreciate the response, all the responses, and don't mean to sound defensive or aggressive. Sorry.
posted by supercres at 10:20 AM on September 1, 2010
That's in my over-long question. It is possible, but we're worried it will just get her as worked up as when we left the first time. My guess is that she'll get better as the day goes on, and I worry that a midday visit will reset the clock, so to speak.
I should also add that we both grew up with dogs. We know exactly what's involved with owning a dog. I would hope that the fact that I posted a question like this would serve as evidence of our concern -- incredible, almost excessive concern -- over her feelings.
I appreciate the response, all the responses, and don't mean to sound defensive or aggressive. Sorry.
posted by supercres at 10:20 AM on September 1, 2010
I have a dog that had pretty severe separation issues when he was a puppy. What worked for us (eventually, it was at least 3 months before things were really better) was giving him ridiculously good snacks in a kong type toy right when I left and not making a big production about my comings and goings.
The other thing that worked (and I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't watched it myself) was Dog Appeasing Pheremone Get the diffuser, none of the other kinds, just plug it in and leave it. It took a few days, but I noticed a significant change in the dog's anxiety within a week. Once the dog gets a better understanding of your schedule, I think he will be better. Even now, my dog is 2 years old, doesn't really have separation issues anymore, but still gets anxious if my schedule changes significantly.
posted by mjcon at 10:25 AM on September 1, 2010
The other thing that worked (and I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't watched it myself) was Dog Appeasing Pheremone Get the diffuser, none of the other kinds, just plug it in and leave it. It took a few days, but I noticed a significant change in the dog's anxiety within a week. Once the dog gets a better understanding of your schedule, I think he will be better. Even now, my dog is 2 years old, doesn't really have separation issues anymore, but still gets anxious if my schedule changes significantly.
posted by mjcon at 10:25 AM on September 1, 2010
It might be something common to the breed. I lived above neighbors with a Jack Russell that would do exactly this while they were gone at work. CONSTANT barking and crying for SEVEN HOURS. And to make it worse, they worked the night shift, so it was from 5PM-midnight. I wanted to murder them every single day they lived in that house. (Though that was probably also inspired by their habit of turning the tv on with wall-rattling bass at 3AM.)
I didn't blame the dog, because it was a dog and couldn't help it, but I damn sure blamed the owners, so kudos to you for getting on this problem so quickly and looking for solutions. This definitely makes it sound like something many Jack Russell owners have to deal with.
posted by MsMolly at 10:34 AM on September 1, 2010
I didn't blame the dog, because it was a dog and couldn't help it, but I damn sure blamed the owners, so kudos to you for getting on this problem so quickly and looking for solutions. This definitely makes it sound like something many Jack Russell owners have to deal with.
posted by MsMolly at 10:34 AM on September 1, 2010
I am on my second Jack russel and have been around them for a long time (I used to be good friends with a breeder and I currently own of her dogs). Me and the wife are away during the day quite a bit while the dogs stay home. The other dog is a sheltie that we acquired as a rescue and kinda had to learn to be a dog from the jack russell. Things I have noticed:
Jack russels are extremely social and very pack oriented. She is NOT ok if she is left alone all day or really for any length of time. She is ok if she has another dog around, and her and the sheltie have really bonded and don't like being seperated at all. All the problem Jack russells I have known were left alone without a companion for long periods of time (more than a couple of hours a day). Be careful about a new dog around a jack though, especially a small one. They are bred to be killers of vermin and they don't give up easy and are known to go after cats and other small dogs if they are stimulated just right. If the jack was not sociallized well as a pup they especially bad in this area. So if you get another dog get an adult jack that is well socialized or a slightly larger breed-about 30 lbs or more seems right. Jacks don't realize they are small and are tough little dogs, they play rough and fight well above their weight.
They do not like being crated without a person around, if we are around she is ok in a crate for awhile. They are highly intelligent and very inquisitive little dogs. They need the stimulation to explore around and check out sounds/sights.
I do leave the blinds down as it seems to limit her barking at passersby and seems to maker her calmer. I have not put in a webcam but we have left the house and then come back quietly and observed from nearby to see how they behave.
We leave LOTS of toys around for her to play with. She appears to have invented lots of games to play with them. Things like miniture tennis balls and plush toys (without stuffing-they are bad about chewing them up and then getting sick from eating the stuffing). We will come home and find them all piled up in a corner or evenly distrubuted in every room or some other new configuration. By a lot I mean 10-15 total and we retire an old one and bring in new one about every two weeks or so. We currently ahve about 30-40 total now and just rotate them. She is just as thrilled with a returned on after a few months as a brand new one. The planet dog orbee tuff balls are great and stand up to the chewing really well (she is especially fond of the rasberry ball and world balls) and the AKC plush toys without stuffing are great too. There is a product called the everlasting treat ball that works really good at keeping her busy but the jack and sheltie fight over them so we don't use that anymore. The last thing we do is make sure they have lots of rawhides to chew on. We buy NW pressed rawhides but any kind made in america is ok and the dogs aren't picky. I don't trust the china stuff due to worries about contimination (the dogs don't need lead, melamine or antifreeze). The breeder I got the jack russel from lost a couple of dogs to a bacterial infection that they thing came from foreign rawhides.
I have not found talk radio to be any good at all. But animal planet or some other channel with lots of nature show will keep them entertained pretty good. However mine will bark at the tv then so I am not sure it is any better and generally leave it off when I am gone.
posted by bartonlong at 10:39 AM on September 1, 2010
Jack russels are extremely social and very pack oriented. She is NOT ok if she is left alone all day or really for any length of time. She is ok if she has another dog around, and her and the sheltie have really bonded and don't like being seperated at all. All the problem Jack russells I have known were left alone without a companion for long periods of time (more than a couple of hours a day). Be careful about a new dog around a jack though, especially a small one. They are bred to be killers of vermin and they don't give up easy and are known to go after cats and other small dogs if they are stimulated just right. If the jack was not sociallized well as a pup they especially bad in this area. So if you get another dog get an adult jack that is well socialized or a slightly larger breed-about 30 lbs or more seems right. Jacks don't realize they are small and are tough little dogs, they play rough and fight well above their weight.
They do not like being crated without a person around, if we are around she is ok in a crate for awhile. They are highly intelligent and very inquisitive little dogs. They need the stimulation to explore around and check out sounds/sights.
I do leave the blinds down as it seems to limit her barking at passersby and seems to maker her calmer. I have not put in a webcam but we have left the house and then come back quietly and observed from nearby to see how they behave.
We leave LOTS of toys around for her to play with. She appears to have invented lots of games to play with them. Things like miniture tennis balls and plush toys (without stuffing-they are bad about chewing them up and then getting sick from eating the stuffing). We will come home and find them all piled up in a corner or evenly distrubuted in every room or some other new configuration. By a lot I mean 10-15 total and we retire an old one and bring in new one about every two weeks or so. We currently ahve about 30-40 total now and just rotate them. She is just as thrilled with a returned on after a few months as a brand new one. The planet dog orbee tuff balls are great and stand up to the chewing really well (she is especially fond of the rasberry ball and world balls) and the AKC plush toys without stuffing are great too. There is a product called the everlasting treat ball that works really good at keeping her busy but the jack and sheltie fight over them so we don't use that anymore. The last thing we do is make sure they have lots of rawhides to chew on. We buy NW pressed rawhides but any kind made in america is ok and the dogs aren't picky. I don't trust the china stuff due to worries about contimination (the dogs don't need lead, melamine or antifreeze). The breeder I got the jack russel from lost a couple of dogs to a bacterial infection that they thing came from foreign rawhides.
I have not found talk radio to be any good at all. But animal planet or some other channel with lots of nature show will keep them entertained pretty good. However mine will bark at the tv then so I am not sure it is any better and generally leave it off when I am gone.
posted by bartonlong at 10:39 AM on September 1, 2010
First of all, following you around is totally separate from the other issue. We have a very old Jack Russell who has always done this. They just like to be around you, which makes them such great companion animals. I think you should try the suggestions one at a time, watching on the webcam to see if they work. I think the longer walks and Peanut Butter Kong would be my first choices. I'm pretty sure you need to keep her away from the window also, as even my old and well-adjusted JR barks when she sees someone out the front window.
posted by raisingsand at 10:44 AM on September 1, 2010
posted by raisingsand at 10:44 AM on September 1, 2010
To address the concerns MsMolly brings up: Jacks were bred to go after small vermin that burrows underground and were selected as barkers so you could find them in burrow were they cornered their quarry and then dig them out (literally). So yes they are barkers. The most effective training we have found is either the constant use of a bark collar (which we don't like) or a reassurance when we are around. We tell her that she is a good dog for letting us know and praise/reward her but she must stop after we tell her it is ok or she gets disciplined. It works as well as anything else we have tried. The are smart enough to realize what the bark collar is doing and get trained to the collar not to stop barking. BTW that really looks like a classic jack from the picture so may not be much of cross at all or from something already nearly a jack like a fox or rat terrier.
posted by bartonlong at 10:46 AM on September 1, 2010
posted by bartonlong at 10:46 AM on September 1, 2010
First: Dali is adorable. You must be so pleased!
Second: this is still very new. I do think D will adjust to your routine, but with the webcam you're in a good position to experiment. I also think window exposure is probably good rather than bad, but you could always test it out and see.
Third: I think you're on the right track. You already know about not being overly excited with him on arrival, which is good. With our guy, it definitely helps if he hasn't recovered from morning exercise yet when we leave -- he's still satisfied and too tired to be anxious.
As you undoubtedly know, JRs have a ton of energy, so I think it's pretty easy for restlessness to play into anxiety/loneliness. One thing I've read and tried to follow is that exercise time and play time do not replace one another, so consider a quick walk (or better yet, run) in the morning followed by a little tug-of-war on the living room floor. I'm also really touch-feely with our JR -- I basically massage the guy when we play -- and I find this calms him down a whole lot. He's much less likely to bark on departure after this kind of attention and affection.
We do the talk radio thing but not sure if it helps.
As for toys, there are these "heartbeat pillows" in various forms. I think they're pretty weird, and given that a dog's hearing is better than our own, I imagine they sound very clunky and mechanical (as they do when you hold them right up to your ear). Our guy was weirded out by it at first, kind of wanted it around, and then grew out of it, but YMMV.
Another dog would no doubt provide comfort but be very, very careful if you decide to do this as to selection (and particularly size) as bartonlong notes. A JR's instincts will generally not permit safe unsupervised play with a second, smaller dog.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:47 AM on September 1, 2010
Second: this is still very new. I do think D will adjust to your routine, but with the webcam you're in a good position to experiment. I also think window exposure is probably good rather than bad, but you could always test it out and see.
Third: I think you're on the right track. You already know about not being overly excited with him on arrival, which is good. With our guy, it definitely helps if he hasn't recovered from morning exercise yet when we leave -- he's still satisfied and too tired to be anxious.
As you undoubtedly know, JRs have a ton of energy, so I think it's pretty easy for restlessness to play into anxiety/loneliness. One thing I've read and tried to follow is that exercise time and play time do not replace one another, so consider a quick walk (or better yet, run) in the morning followed by a little tug-of-war on the living room floor. I'm also really touch-feely with our JR -- I basically massage the guy when we play -- and I find this calms him down a whole lot. He's much less likely to bark on departure after this kind of attention and affection.
We do the talk radio thing but not sure if it helps.
As for toys, there are these "heartbeat pillows" in various forms. I think they're pretty weird, and given that a dog's hearing is better than our own, I imagine they sound very clunky and mechanical (as they do when you hold them right up to your ear). Our guy was weirded out by it at first, kind of wanted it around, and then grew out of it, but YMMV.
Another dog would no doubt provide comfort but be very, very careful if you decide to do this as to selection (and particularly size) as bartonlong notes. A JR's instincts will generally not permit safe unsupervised play with a second, smaller dog.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:47 AM on September 1, 2010
You've had her less than a week. It's been a big change. It's not the first big change in her life, and she doesn't know if this is the new normal or if things are going to change again.
I wouldn't suggest, yet, that she has separation anxiety. No, I'd suggest that she's just trying to figure out what's going on. The first couple of days with you, you were there all the time! Now you leave in the morning! What's going to happen next?! (As far as I can tell, Jack Russells always use exclamation points or interrobangs ;)) Give her a couple of weeks to learn your schedule, and get used to the idea that you always come home in the evening, before you start worrying that this might be any kind of real problem.
Crating or not is a judgment call. You've got a camera on her, so you could see how she reacts one day if you try crating her. If it works better for her, hey, go with that.
posted by galadriel at 10:52 AM on September 1, 2010
I wouldn't suggest, yet, that she has separation anxiety. No, I'd suggest that she's just trying to figure out what's going on. The first couple of days with you, you were there all the time! Now you leave in the morning! What's going to happen next?! (As far as I can tell, Jack Russells always use exclamation points or interrobangs ;)) Give her a couple of weeks to learn your schedule, and get used to the idea that you always come home in the evening, before you start worrying that this might be any kind of real problem.
Crating or not is a judgment call. You've got a camera on her, so you could see how she reacts one day if you try crating her. If it works better for her, hey, go with that.
posted by galadriel at 10:52 AM on September 1, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks so much for all the responses so far. She's doing better now. Still an occasional yip or two, or a little bit of a jag, but much longer between them.
The engineer in me wants to make a scatter plot-- somehow hijack the stream, analyze it in real-time, and have it print out an event whenever audio volume rises above X. Ah well; procrastination activity for another day.
posted by supercres at 11:11 AM on September 1, 2010
The engineer in me wants to make a scatter plot-- somehow hijack the stream, analyze it in real-time, and have it print out an event whenever audio volume rises above X. Ah well; procrastination activity for another day.
posted by supercres at 11:11 AM on September 1, 2010
Congrats on the new dog! I'm also an engineer, and adopted a dog last October, so I'm similarly wanting to put webcams and automated Twittering electronics on my dog to see what she does while I'm gone. But so far I've avoided it -- I don't need the extra anxiety.
When I first got my dog, she would freak out every time I walked out the door, even if it was just to take out the trash. I spent the first three weeks of owning her feeling claustrophobic, like I could never leave the house, and considering returning her. But I stuck through it, and I'm glad I did. It got better.
Giving her a toy (even a delicious peanut butter kong) didn't work. Nothing I tried worked. Crating only made things worse. Honestly, what changed things was just getting into a very strict routine: my breakfast, walk, her breakfast while I shower, me putting on makeup and drying my hair, and leaving. As long as I go through that process (or one very close to it) she is dead silent and calm when I leave -- though she does hop up on my couch to look out my window and watch me walk down the street. But even now, eight months later, when I leave and I *don't* follow that routine, she barks. Coming home during lunch or anything to walk her or check on her seems to make it worse -- she's so excited I'm home outside of my normal schedule, that when I leave she seems more upset than usual.
So short version of the advice: set a routine, stick to it rigidly over the next weeks (even on the weekends if you can -- don't give her a "day off") and hopefully it'll help.
Good luck!
posted by olinerd at 11:58 AM on September 1, 2010
When I first got my dog, she would freak out every time I walked out the door, even if it was just to take out the trash. I spent the first three weeks of owning her feeling claustrophobic, like I could never leave the house, and considering returning her. But I stuck through it, and I'm glad I did. It got better.
Giving her a toy (even a delicious peanut butter kong) didn't work. Nothing I tried worked. Crating only made things worse. Honestly, what changed things was just getting into a very strict routine: my breakfast, walk, her breakfast while I shower, me putting on makeup and drying my hair, and leaving. As long as I go through that process (or one very close to it) she is dead silent and calm when I leave -- though she does hop up on my couch to look out my window and watch me walk down the street. But even now, eight months later, when I leave and I *don't* follow that routine, she barks. Coming home during lunch or anything to walk her or check on her seems to make it worse -- she's so excited I'm home outside of my normal schedule, that when I leave she seems more upset than usual.
So short version of the advice: set a routine, stick to it rigidly over the next weeks (even on the weekends if you can -- don't give her a "day off") and hopefully it'll help.
Good luck!
posted by olinerd at 11:58 AM on September 1, 2010
Is your morning dog walk at least 30 minutes long? Can you take your dog off leash anywhere? Exercise plus exploration or play with other dogs can unwind a lot of doggie tension.
When you say your dog is running up to the window and barking without provocation, it may be from the dog's perspective that there's something provocative. She probably views the street as hers, so people, squirrels, birds, and cars are all provocation.
I'd try crating your dog in a more enclosed carrier, rather than an open wire crate, and see how that works. Some dogs are comforted by a lack of visual stimulation when the parents are away.
Don't force your dog into the crate though. Work up to it by putting some high value treats in there while the crate is open and let her enter and exit as she pleases. Feed breakfast and dinner in there for a week with the gate open. It should be a place that feels good before you crate her in there for the day.
posted by zippy at 12:03 PM on September 1, 2010
When you say your dog is running up to the window and barking without provocation, it may be from the dog's perspective that there's something provocative. She probably views the street as hers, so people, squirrels, birds, and cars are all provocation.
I'd try crating your dog in a more enclosed carrier, rather than an open wire crate, and see how that works. Some dogs are comforted by a lack of visual stimulation when the parents are away.
Don't force your dog into the crate though. Work up to it by putting some high value treats in there while the crate is open and let her enter and exit as she pleases. Feed breakfast and dinner in there for a week with the gate open. It should be a place that feels good before you crate her in there for the day.
posted by zippy at 12:03 PM on September 1, 2010
I like the Kong idea. I just want to point out that if Dali carries it around with melting peanut butter oozing out of it, it could get messy. And I wouldn't use anything perishable or anything that could get smelly (chicken, cheese, lunch meat, tuna, etc.) if I wasn't around to supervise. You don't want to find a moldy piece of cheese in the couch cushions three days later. You can imagine how I know this...
You might consider taking a cue from parents of young kids on long car rides - get a variety of busy toys, leave only a few out at any one time, and change them up every day. Keep Dali busy with the Shiny! New! Things! Another variation is to give her a daily challenge by hiding her toys and/or treats in different spots around the house. If she's too busy finding treats, maybe she'll be too busy to miss you? Plus, if you only leave treats for her when you leave, she might learn to associate you leaving with something pleasant.
I wonder if calling home to let her hear your voice on your answering machine would make things better or worse?
posted by SuperSquirrel at 12:05 PM on September 1, 2010
You might consider taking a cue from parents of young kids on long car rides - get a variety of busy toys, leave only a few out at any one time, and change them up every day. Keep Dali busy with the Shiny! New! Things! Another variation is to give her a daily challenge by hiding her toys and/or treats in different spots around the house. If she's too busy finding treats, maybe she'll be too busy to miss you? Plus, if you only leave treats for her when you leave, she might learn to associate you leaving with something pleasant.
I wonder if calling home to let her hear your voice on your answering machine would make things better or worse?
posted by SuperSquirrel at 12:05 PM on September 1, 2010
Even though you already said it's better -- just in case you need help in the future I'm going to respond.
A few years ago I adopted a dog that turned out had separation anxiety. He would essentially bark non-stop for 8 hours. Luckily I lived in a house without close neighbors at the time.
Hopefully your dog may settle down once he gets used to the routine.
I ended up working with a trainer, and these are the various things we did that helped.
1. Vigorous Morning Exercise. I tried a bunch of things, but I think this is what helped my dog the most in the end. I used to walk my dog in the evenings, but the trainer had me start doing that in the mornings. It's a commitment I tell ya, but now I get out of bed an hour earlier and we go for a brisk 30-45 minute walk or I take my bike out and give him a good run for 25 minutes which is just right amount of time for his size ability. (We built up the running time slowly). With drained energy, he will sleep a whole bunch more during the day.
2. Practice leaving a whole bunch of times but don't actually go anywhere. Put on your shoes and jacket, pick up your keys and purse, or whatever your leaving routine is. Do it lots of times. I made a practice of it, doing it 4-5 times a day over a number of months. He used to go crazy with anxiety when I put on shoes or picked up my keys. Now he non-reactive to them.
3. When you come and go - make it very, very nonchalant and low-key. No high voice, "DID YOU MISS ME? I'M HOME! OH MY GOODNESS.. " SQUEE! Simply walk in, put down your stuff down and go about your business until the dog is more calm. Personally, I completely ignore my dog for the first 4-5 minutes when I walk in the door. I do walk to the back door to let him in the backyard to potty if he wants, but I don't talk to him or look at him. Then on MY terms and when I am ready, I tell my dog hello. I don't acknowledge him at all when he's in an over excited state.
When you are leaving, don't say anything or make a big deal of it. Don't even say goodbye or look at the dog. Just pick up your stuff and go.
I know it's hard to ignore the dog when you first get home because you miss the dog too, but remember that you are doing it for the dog. The dog will not have hurt feelings or wonder why you didn't say hello. It's a dog. It wants and craves your leadership.
4. Nthing the recommendation for kongs. I make a frozen yogurt treat for my dog. He loves it. You can reduce the recipe, but I melt 1 cup of peanut butter for about 30 seconds in the microwave. Then add a large container of non-fat vanilla or plain yogurt and mix it all up. Now you have a bunch of kong stuffing. Stuff that kong 'n freeze 'em.
5. I can also recommend the Tricky Treat Ball for meals. I put his breakfast kibble in this and he knows he gets it when I leave the house in the morning so after awhile he became eager for me to leave the house instead of anxious about it. He has to nose it around to get the kibble to fall out and this keeps him busy for awhile. [Hint: don't get the small one, there's no lip on the inside, it's just a regular ball with a hole cut in it so the food, just falls out almost all at once. My dog is 20lb and can use it just fine - it's very light and really not that big.]
By the way, whoever had my dog before me let him turn into a doe-eyed, hard core beggar. He's very hard to resist, but I do. My mantra with my dog is "No. Because I love you." Wrote this on the fly so feel free if you have any follow up questions.
posted by crayon at 12:11 PM on September 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
A few years ago I adopted a dog that turned out had separation anxiety. He would essentially bark non-stop for 8 hours. Luckily I lived in a house without close neighbors at the time.
Hopefully your dog may settle down once he gets used to the routine.
I ended up working with a trainer, and these are the various things we did that helped.
1. Vigorous Morning Exercise. I tried a bunch of things, but I think this is what helped my dog the most in the end. I used to walk my dog in the evenings, but the trainer had me start doing that in the mornings. It's a commitment I tell ya, but now I get out of bed an hour earlier and we go for a brisk 30-45 minute walk or I take my bike out and give him a good run for 25 minutes which is just right amount of time for his size ability. (We built up the running time slowly). With drained energy, he will sleep a whole bunch more during the day.
2. Practice leaving a whole bunch of times but don't actually go anywhere. Put on your shoes and jacket, pick up your keys and purse, or whatever your leaving routine is. Do it lots of times. I made a practice of it, doing it 4-5 times a day over a number of months. He used to go crazy with anxiety when I put on shoes or picked up my keys. Now he non-reactive to them.
3. When you come and go - make it very, very nonchalant and low-key. No high voice, "DID YOU MISS ME? I'M HOME! OH MY GOODNESS.. " SQUEE! Simply walk in, put down your stuff down and go about your business until the dog is more calm. Personally, I completely ignore my dog for the first 4-5 minutes when I walk in the door. I do walk to the back door to let him in the backyard to potty if he wants, but I don't talk to him or look at him. Then on MY terms and when I am ready, I tell my dog hello. I don't acknowledge him at all when he's in an over excited state.
When you are leaving, don't say anything or make a big deal of it. Don't even say goodbye or look at the dog. Just pick up your stuff and go.
I know it's hard to ignore the dog when you first get home because you miss the dog too, but remember that you are doing it for the dog. The dog will not have hurt feelings or wonder why you didn't say hello. It's a dog. It wants and craves your leadership.
4. Nthing the recommendation for kongs. I make a frozen yogurt treat for my dog. He loves it. You can reduce the recipe, but I melt 1 cup of peanut butter for about 30 seconds in the microwave. Then add a large container of non-fat vanilla or plain yogurt and mix it all up. Now you have a bunch of kong stuffing. Stuff that kong 'n freeze 'em.
5. I can also recommend the Tricky Treat Ball for meals. I put his breakfast kibble in this and he knows he gets it when I leave the house in the morning so after awhile he became eager for me to leave the house instead of anxious about it. He has to nose it around to get the kibble to fall out and this keeps him busy for awhile. [Hint: don't get the small one, there's no lip on the inside, it's just a regular ball with a hole cut in it so the food, just falls out almost all at once. My dog is 20lb and can use it just fine - it's very light and really not that big.]
By the way, whoever had my dog before me let him turn into a doe-eyed, hard core beggar. He's very hard to resist, but I do. My mantra with my dog is "No. Because I love you." Wrote this on the fly so feel free if you have any follow up questions.
posted by crayon at 12:11 PM on September 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
I had a dog with separation anxiety. Yes to talk radio. Yes to a toy that takes about an hour to unstuff (I would put crappy dog food or snacks in a kong). My understanding is that after about an hour, they pretty much forget you were even there. I wish I had the heart for crate training, as I've heard it's pretty effective (dogs sleep all day anyway). Absolutely yes to the routine as described above. Dogs love nothing more that knowing what's going on, and having a good sense of what's happening next.
posted by Gilbert at 12:14 PM on September 1, 2010
posted by Gilbert at 12:14 PM on September 1, 2010
Response by poster: I love Metafilter. You guys have made those little stabs of doggie sorrow much more bearable, since I have BIG PLANS for experimenting to treat/cure her anxiety/sadness/boredom. Plus, I have personal stories saying, "Yes, it will get better."
Earlier, I only meant that she's better this afternoon than she was this morning. A little longer between her crying jags. We're still of course looking for help in getting rid of them altogether, but we have some great stuff to go on.
Mrs S took off from work early, so she should be getting home soon. Little Dali is going to get a nice long walk up to the pet store for some toys to keep her occupied tomorrow. Serious doggie culinary science will take place tonight
Additional suggestions are more than welcome. I plan on documenting our progress, what worked vs what didn't, here a little bit for the benefit of future askers.
Thanks, everyone.
posted by supercres at 12:24 PM on September 1, 2010
Earlier, I only meant that she's better this afternoon than she was this morning. A little longer between her crying jags. We're still of course looking for help in getting rid of them altogether, but we have some great stuff to go on.
Mrs S took off from work early, so she should be getting home soon. Little Dali is going to get a nice long walk up to the pet store for some toys to keep her occupied tomorrow. Serious doggie culinary science will take place tonight
Additional suggestions are more than welcome. I plan on documenting our progress, what worked vs what didn't, here a little bit for the benefit of future askers.
Thanks, everyone.
posted by supercres at 12:24 PM on September 1, 2010
Nthing lots of exercise in the morning, off leash if possible.
But mostly I wanted to say: omg she's so cute!
posted by bluedaisy at 12:32 PM on September 1, 2010
But mostly I wanted to say: omg she's so cute!
posted by bluedaisy at 12:32 PM on September 1, 2010
Dali is adorable! Welcome to the world of JRTs - they are the silliest, smartest, most charming and loyal creatures, but they can also make you insane. In part, you just need to give it time so she learns that this is her home and that you'll be coming back to her when you leave, etc. In part, JRTs are velcro dogs - they want to be next to you or touching you all the time. Other friends of mine have dogs that just hang out in other parts of the house, whereas Lyle is sitting on my feet as I type this. Crayon & others above have great advice, and it's definitely worth doing all of those things. You may also find that she, like Lyle, stops the barking but continues the clinginess.
Also, Lyle, who is almost five, needs at least an hour off-leash every single day or he is insane. No amount of on-leash walking seems to tire him. He goes out with a dog walker during the week and runs on the beach for an hour or two, which, when combined with morning & evening leash walks, seems to be enough. You don't mention how old she is, but I suspect a LOT of exercise might do the trick, and will allow her to spend much of the rest of the day sleeping. Best of luck & feel free to me-mail me for more JRT-specific advice. They are kind of their own special challenge, but totally rewarding.
posted by judith at 12:24 AM on September 2, 2010
Also, Lyle, who is almost five, needs at least an hour off-leash every single day or he is insane. No amount of on-leash walking seems to tire him. He goes out with a dog walker during the week and runs on the beach for an hour or two, which, when combined with morning & evening leash walks, seems to be enough. You don't mention how old she is, but I suspect a LOT of exercise might do the trick, and will allow her to spend much of the rest of the day sleeping. Best of luck & feel free to me-mail me for more JRT-specific advice. They are kind of their own special challenge, but totally rewarding.
posted by judith at 12:24 AM on September 2, 2010
Response by poster: Day two with the camera. Some changes from previous days:
-- Took her for a brisk walk for double the time as previous morning.
-- Took away her access to sit in the window. She's still putting her paws up on the windowsill, but she can't see out. She does not seem to be happy about this. I've never worried about her being destructive before, but she might tear the curtains down trying to get up there.
-- We gave her a frozen Kong stuffed with peanut butter and kibble. We tried it last night and she loved it. This morning, she's ignoring it.
-- We also gave her a food puzzle ball with kibble. She didn't care for that last night, and even when she accidentally kicks it this morning, she's ignoring it.
Aaaaand she just jumped into the windowsill, which she can barely get her paws onto, and is covered by curtains and vertical blinds. Guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Considering going home in a bit if she doesn't calm down and crating her with a treat and the Kong. We already moved it downstairs and put a sheet over it, but there's no way she's going in there on her own this morning.
judith: She's 4-5. She really is tiny, though-- about 11.5 pounds. Sadly, and perhaps reflecting that, she doesn't seem to be very food-motivated, which hampers how much we can bribe her with treats.
posted by supercres at 7:20 AM on September 2, 2010
-- Took her for a brisk walk for double the time as previous morning.
-- Took away her access to sit in the window. She's still putting her paws up on the windowsill, but she can't see out. She does not seem to be happy about this. I've never worried about her being destructive before, but she might tear the curtains down trying to get up there.
-- We gave her a frozen Kong stuffed with peanut butter and kibble. We tried it last night and she loved it. This morning, she's ignoring it.
-- We also gave her a food puzzle ball with kibble. She didn't care for that last night, and even when she accidentally kicks it this morning, she's ignoring it.
Aaaaand she just jumped into the windowsill, which she can barely get her paws onto, and is covered by curtains and vertical blinds. Guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Considering going home in a bit if she doesn't calm down and crating her with a treat and the Kong. We already moved it downstairs and put a sheet over it, but there's no way she's going in there on her own this morning.
judith: She's 4-5. She really is tiny, though-- about 11.5 pounds. Sadly, and perhaps reflecting that, she doesn't seem to be very food-motivated, which hampers how much we can bribe her with treats.
posted by supercres at 7:20 AM on September 2, 2010
Response by poster: And it probably goes without saying, but she's also still barking, though perhaps not as much as this time yesterday. I don't hold out much hope for her being completely quiet at any point today, though.
posted by supercres at 7:21 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by supercres at 7:21 AM on September 2, 2010
Most likely, this really will improve with time. There's also a great book by behaviorist Dr Sophia Yin (who has an adorable - but fearful - JRT herself) called "How to Behave So Your Dog Behaves". Highly recommended.
posted by judith at 12:44 PM on September 2, 2010
posted by judith at 12:44 PM on September 2, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by supercres at 10:00 AM on September 1, 2010