progression of sexual activity
August 14, 2010 7:12 AM Subscribe
What is a common pace for the progression of sexual activity in a new relationship?
I'm a female in my 20's, and do not understand how to best set a pace for progression of sexual activities (kissing, making out, under clothes, oral, sex, etc) when I begin dating someone new. I think I skipped learning about this in my teenage years, and need to know what other people commonly do. In particular, sometimes I feel like we're moving too fast, and I want to slow down, but do not know how to best accomplish this. I never feel pressured, and usually, I think the pace is usually so fast because I also seem overly eager, and we go farther than I planned. I'd like to know what people do to prolong this "getting to know each others bodies" stage before sex. (Please don't say "you always have a right to stop" or "do what feels comfortable and natural". I know this. I'd like to believe I'm an empowered woman who is confident in her sexuality. I just want to know what is common.)
At this point, I have a good amount of experience in dating and sexual activities, but because I don't really know of a good pace and progression of events, we usually end up with oral and sex within a few dates. I would like to change this. For example, is it common to just make out naked on the bed without it going farther? Would that be frustrating for the man? I think the reason I end up in the predicament is because I like being naked with someone, but I feel it's rude if I don't finish him off. How long (as in days, weeks) can this go on before it's too much? Do people give hand jobs without moving to oral? I'm very familiar with oral, but less with hand jobs, which is why I sometimes move directly to oral, probably skipping a "step" in the common progression of sexual activities.
I know I sound like a teenager... I just honestly do not know how these things are supposed to work and need things spelled out for me. In addition, it would be especially helpful is people could explicitly state, in their experience, the number of dates and the exact progression of activity.
Throwaway email: sexprogression@gmail.com
I'm a female in my 20's, and do not understand how to best set a pace for progression of sexual activities (kissing, making out, under clothes, oral, sex, etc) when I begin dating someone new. I think I skipped learning about this in my teenage years, and need to know what other people commonly do. In particular, sometimes I feel like we're moving too fast, and I want to slow down, but do not know how to best accomplish this. I never feel pressured, and usually, I think the pace is usually so fast because I also seem overly eager, and we go farther than I planned. I'd like to know what people do to prolong this "getting to know each others bodies" stage before sex. (Please don't say "you always have a right to stop" or "do what feels comfortable and natural". I know this. I'd like to believe I'm an empowered woman who is confident in her sexuality. I just want to know what is common.)
At this point, I have a good amount of experience in dating and sexual activities, but because I don't really know of a good pace and progression of events, we usually end up with oral and sex within a few dates. I would like to change this. For example, is it common to just make out naked on the bed without it going farther? Would that be frustrating for the man? I think the reason I end up in the predicament is because I like being naked with someone, but I feel it's rude if I don't finish him off. How long (as in days, weeks) can this go on before it's too much? Do people give hand jobs without moving to oral? I'm very familiar with oral, but less with hand jobs, which is why I sometimes move directly to oral, probably skipping a "step" in the common progression of sexual activities.
I know I sound like a teenager... I just honestly do not know how these things are supposed to work and need things spelled out for me. In addition, it would be especially helpful is people could explicitly state, in their experience, the number of dates and the exact progression of activity.
Throwaway email: sexprogression@gmail.com
The reason people will tell you to "do what feels comfortable and natural" is because, tragically, there is no such thing as a common pace. My experience with each partner has been entirely different, based on our ages, past experience, goals, and a whole host of other subjective factors that make this question mostly unanswerable in the abstract.
Your only hope is to learn to communicate with your partners when you want something, or when you fear being "rude" by not going further. That is what being empowered is all about.
posted by thejoshu at 7:20 AM on August 14, 2010 [10 favorites]
Your only hope is to learn to communicate with your partners when you want something, or when you fear being "rude" by not going further. That is what being empowered is all about.
posted by thejoshu at 7:20 AM on August 14, 2010 [10 favorites]
I think the reason I end up in the predicament is because I like being naked with someone, but I feel it's rude if I don't finish him off.
It's not that it's rude to cuddle naked with a guy and not "finish him off." It's more that naked = sex for a lot of people (which kind of sucks, actually, now that I think about it...) so he's going to make assumptions unless you tell him otherwise.
I think there are plenty of guys who'd have no problem cuddling naked without going any further, but they might need you to explicitly tell them that's what you're interested in. Like, "You know, I'd really love to have some naked cuddle time but I'm not really feeling up for sex quite yet. Is that okay?" (although phrased differently, of course) You'd also have to be ready for them to say they're okay with it but keep pushing for more in the heat of the moment, in which case you'd have to gently push back and remind them of what you are and aren't up for.
If you aren't comfortable having that kind of conversation or dealing with a small amount of pressure, you might have to sacrifice the naked time until you're okay with the idea of it going somewhere.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 7:27 AM on August 14, 2010 [8 favorites]
It's not that it's rude to cuddle naked with a guy and not "finish him off." It's more that naked = sex for a lot of people (which kind of sucks, actually, now that I think about it...) so he's going to make assumptions unless you tell him otherwise.
I think there are plenty of guys who'd have no problem cuddling naked without going any further, but they might need you to explicitly tell them that's what you're interested in. Like, "You know, I'd really love to have some naked cuddle time but I'm not really feeling up for sex quite yet. Is that okay?" (although phrased differently, of course) You'd also have to be ready for them to say they're okay with it but keep pushing for more in the heat of the moment, in which case you'd have to gently push back and remind them of what you are and aren't up for.
If you aren't comfortable having that kind of conversation or dealing with a small amount of pressure, you might have to sacrifice the naked time until you're okay with the idea of it going somewhere.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 7:27 AM on August 14, 2010 [8 favorites]
I agree that there is no "common place" progression and my experiences with each partner has been different.
I can tell you in the hopes that this will alleviate some of your concerns about frustrating your partner that my current boyfriend and I had been friends for around 10 years before we started dating. One night I decided I wanted to make out with him so I went for it. We had several (I don't remember exactly how many, a handful maybe) sessions over the course of a few weeks of being completely naked, rolling around making out with neither of us having an orgasm. I waited for P in V sex and oral with the intent of giving him an orgasm until I felt comfortable with the idea. He definitely wanted to do it; I just stopped him and told him I wasn't ready for that but I still wanted to be naked with him. I did not spend the night those nights and I assumed he masturbated after I left.
Don't feel rude about not "finishing off" your date. That is what jerking off is for.
posted by ephemerista at 7:30 AM on August 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
I can tell you in the hopes that this will alleviate some of your concerns about frustrating your partner that my current boyfriend and I had been friends for around 10 years before we started dating. One night I decided I wanted to make out with him so I went for it. We had several (I don't remember exactly how many, a handful maybe) sessions over the course of a few weeks of being completely naked, rolling around making out with neither of us having an orgasm. I waited for P in V sex and oral with the intent of giving him an orgasm until I felt comfortable with the idea. He definitely wanted to do it; I just stopped him and told him I wasn't ready for that but I still wanted to be naked with him. I did not spend the night those nights and I assumed he masturbated after I left.
Don't feel rude about not "finishing off" your date. That is what jerking off is for.
posted by ephemerista at 7:30 AM on August 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
I agree with previous people. I will say that most commmonly I end up with at least one naked or semi-naked makeout sessions before first having intercourse. These may or may not include oral sex or a handjob, it varies. I don't seem to have a pattern for how long to wait before doing more than just kissing.
I am a straight woman, and the men that I've been with have not been put off if I go slower than they would choose themselves. If they're into you, I don't think it's likely to be frustrating in a bad way.
I wouldn't be surprised if my 'normal' was different to other people's and I don't mind whether I am like other people or not.
posted by plonkee at 7:32 AM on August 14, 2010
I am a straight woman, and the men that I've been with have not been put off if I go slower than they would choose themselves. If they're into you, I don't think it's likely to be frustrating in a bad way.
I wouldn't be surprised if my 'normal' was different to other people's and I don't mind whether I am like other people or not.
posted by plonkee at 7:32 AM on August 14, 2010
Please don't say "you always have a right to stop" or "do what feels comfortable and natural". I know this. I'd like to believe I'm an empowered woman who is confident in her sexuality. I just want to know what is common.
Unfortunately, that is the correct answer to this question. What are we supposed to say?
If you don't want to do something, don't do it.
You're going to have to communicate with your partner about this stuff. There's really no way around it. And there's nothing wrong with that. Any guy who makes you feel bad for not going beyond your comfort zone, sexually, is a jerk and you should never see him again.
I'm one of those women who doesn't really need any progression towards sex in a relationship. I have to restrain myself from sleeping with everyone on the first date. And I still think it's important to communicate with your partner what you are or aren't ready for, and still think anybody who makes you feel bad about that is a petulant child who doesn't deserve you.
posted by Sara C. at 7:49 AM on August 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
Unfortunately, that is the correct answer to this question. What are we supposed to say?
If you don't want to do something, don't do it.
You're going to have to communicate with your partner about this stuff. There's really no way around it. And there's nothing wrong with that. Any guy who makes you feel bad for not going beyond your comfort zone, sexually, is a jerk and you should never see him again.
I'm one of those women who doesn't really need any progression towards sex in a relationship. I have to restrain myself from sleeping with everyone on the first date. And I still think it's important to communicate with your partner what you are or aren't ready for, and still think anybody who makes you feel bad about that is a petulant child who doesn't deserve you.
posted by Sara C. at 7:49 AM on August 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
At 27 I don't personally follow a set progression, other than no more than kissing/making out on the first few dates, absolutely no action inside the pants until I feel very comfortable with them - the 3rd or 4th date at least. Other than that, it's all sex in one form or another at this point IMO. Variety for spicing things up. The "bases" don't really matter anymore. I usually wait a few weeks to become more adventurous with them though, like doing it in public places or getting into kinkier things, depending on what feels right with the other person.
But you're right, taking things slow is something to be appreciated. The most amazing partners I've ever had were into taking things slow and sensually during a session in bed, touching and kissing all over our bodies, so much more intimate. These were the people who were fun to be simply naked with, because they wanted to prolong the pleasure of the actions in itself, weren't always into rushing to the finish. If you want to do it this way, then simply explain it to your partner and if he doesn't like it, if he's not into the act in itself and just wants to get off, then perhaps he's not right for you.
As for it being rude not to finish someone off, well honestly I've come across more than a few guys who occasionally a tough time climaxing. It feels rude of them to insist I keep going if I'm getting bored/tired of it. This is about both of us having a good time, so if they want to finish on their own while I continue to make out and lend a hand in stimulating them, so be it. This being after I've already climaxed... I have no idea why, but when the guy climaxes, it always seems to be "ok, that's the end of our sexy time". If he wants gratification, he should be making sure I'm getting some too, else it's a dealbreaker. Above all, it should be fun and enjoyable for everyone.
posted by lizbunny at 7:52 AM on August 14, 2010 [4 favorites]
But you're right, taking things slow is something to be appreciated. The most amazing partners I've ever had were into taking things slow and sensually during a session in bed, touching and kissing all over our bodies, so much more intimate. These were the people who were fun to be simply naked with, because they wanted to prolong the pleasure of the actions in itself, weren't always into rushing to the finish. If you want to do it this way, then simply explain it to your partner and if he doesn't like it, if he's not into the act in itself and just wants to get off, then perhaps he's not right for you.
As for it being rude not to finish someone off, well honestly I've come across more than a few guys who occasionally a tough time climaxing. It feels rude of them to insist I keep going if I'm getting bored/tired of it. This is about both of us having a good time, so if they want to finish on their own while I continue to make out and lend a hand in stimulating them, so be it. This being after I've already climaxed... I have no idea why, but when the guy climaxes, it always seems to be "ok, that's the end of our sexy time". If he wants gratification, he should be making sure I'm getting some too, else it's a dealbreaker. Above all, it should be fun and enjoyable for everyone.
posted by lizbunny at 7:52 AM on August 14, 2010 [4 favorites]
In popular culture in the US, I've heard the 3rd date referred to as the sex date on more than one occasion. Of course it varies as you well know, but if you're asking what's normative, that 3 date thing must be coming from somewhere.
posted by willnot at 7:59 AM on August 14, 2010
posted by willnot at 7:59 AM on August 14, 2010
I don't have much to say about this because, as others have observed, there really are no rules about this sort of stuff. There's no "supposed to". Most of it is to do with the feelings you and your prospective sexual partner are experiencing and how comfortable you are with them at whatever stage you're at. It really is quite hard to call in advance.
No one should feel pressured into doing anything they don't feel completely into and ready for; interestingly, neither should anyone feel pressured into going more slowly than they feel ready for (I mean by outside/societal pressures, of course. If your partner wants to go more slowly, fair enough). You should always feel able to nicely say that you're having a lovely time doing whatever you're into, but that at this point you'd rather go no further. A decent guy will take that gracefully. If he doesn't take it gracefully well, ask yourself the question...
Personal experience? Being a Brit I never did the "dating" thing so it's hard for me to imagine what that must feel like and how things play out when the opening gambit is a "date". The way these things work for us (at least for my generation of Brits - I can't speak for the young) is you don't generally even "go out" with someone until you've already both realised you're kinda hot for each other. So usually pretty full-on, chandelier-swinging sex follows fairly damned swiftly. :-)
In summary: people feel differently about this stuff, don't be afraid to say what you do and don't want, don't worry too much about what is "supposed" to happen when and don't overthink it - go with your true feelings. And enjoy!
posted by Decani at 8:02 AM on August 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
No one should feel pressured into doing anything they don't feel completely into and ready for; interestingly, neither should anyone feel pressured into going more slowly than they feel ready for (I mean by outside/societal pressures, of course. If your partner wants to go more slowly, fair enough). You should always feel able to nicely say that you're having a lovely time doing whatever you're into, but that at this point you'd rather go no further. A decent guy will take that gracefully. If he doesn't take it gracefully well, ask yourself the question...
Personal experience? Being a Brit I never did the "dating" thing so it's hard for me to imagine what that must feel like and how things play out when the opening gambit is a "date". The way these things work for us (at least for my generation of Brits - I can't speak for the young) is you don't generally even "go out" with someone until you've already both realised you're kinda hot for each other. So usually pretty full-on, chandelier-swinging sex follows fairly damned swiftly. :-)
In summary: people feel differently about this stuff, don't be afraid to say what you do and don't want, don't worry too much about what is "supposed" to happen when and don't overthink it - go with your true feelings. And enjoy!
posted by Decani at 8:02 AM on August 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
For example, is it common to just make out naked on the bed without it going farther?
I have never had such an experience, and any woman who has been naked in my bed ends up with the full enchilada. Not against will you understand, but it just sounds an alien concept to me that a woman I was sexually interested in would get naked and get into my bed and then not be interested in having sex.
Would that be frustrating for the man?
I would find that extremely frustrating.
posted by Meatbomb at 8:08 AM on August 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
I have never had such an experience, and any woman who has been naked in my bed ends up with the full enchilada. Not against will you understand, but it just sounds an alien concept to me that a woman I was sexually interested in would get naked and get into my bed and then not be interested in having sex.
Would that be frustrating for the man?
I would find that extremely frustrating.
posted by Meatbomb at 8:08 AM on August 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
For example, is it common to just make out naked on the bed without it going farther?
It was when I was in college, but that went along with a lot of ambivalence and tentativeness about sex. No one I've slept with since has wanted that kind of slow, incremental progression.
Would that be frustrating for the man?
For me, yes. I don't want to call it a deal-breaker or anything like that, but I'm definitely not interested in extended titillation without a follow-through. However, different folks, different strokes -- I do have male friends who describe this sort of thing as both routine and fun, a great part of hooking up with someone new.
So there are definitely guys who will not just grudgingly accept this, but will welcome it as enjoyable in its own right and a great way to slow the pace of sexual progression. It's not about what's normal -- it's about finding ways to connect with people who share your ideas about sexuality, and finding effective ways to communicate your needs and desires.
posted by Forktine at 8:08 AM on August 14, 2010 [2 favorites]
It was when I was in college, but that went along with a lot of ambivalence and tentativeness about sex. No one I've slept with since has wanted that kind of slow, incremental progression.
Would that be frustrating for the man?
For me, yes. I don't want to call it a deal-breaker or anything like that, but I'm definitely not interested in extended titillation without a follow-through. However, different folks, different strokes -- I do have male friends who describe this sort of thing as both routine and fun, a great part of hooking up with someone new.
So there are definitely guys who will not just grudgingly accept this, but will welcome it as enjoyable in its own right and a great way to slow the pace of sexual progression. It's not about what's normal -- it's about finding ways to connect with people who share your ideas about sexuality, and finding effective ways to communicate your needs and desires.
posted by Forktine at 8:08 AM on August 14, 2010 [2 favorites]
Yes, it varies, but I'm not sure that's all that helpful to the OP, who's asking "What's the average pattern?"
For me, "normal" means the following progression. Note that there's obviously tons of overlap in when things feel "appropriate," and that the meaning of a "date" varies wildly, etc, etc. Also, I've deviated a lot from this, in going faster and slower.
Kissing: Dates 1-3
Kissing-with-petting: Dates 2-5
Hand jobs/Oral sex: After a couple of weeks, whenever that is
Sex: Within ~1 month.
Like I said, there's a lot of variance here. I've had sex on the first date; I had a relationship that lasted through a few months and never involved intercourse. What I sketched out above is what, if I experienced it, would feel 100% "normal." Hope that helps.
posted by Tomorrowful at 8:10 AM on August 14, 2010
For me, "normal" means the following progression. Note that there's obviously tons of overlap in when things feel "appropriate," and that the meaning of a "date" varies wildly, etc, etc. Also, I've deviated a lot from this, in going faster and slower.
Kissing: Dates 1-3
Kissing-with-petting: Dates 2-5
Hand jobs/Oral sex: After a couple of weeks, whenever that is
Sex: Within ~1 month.
Like I said, there's a lot of variance here. I've had sex on the first date; I had a relationship that lasted through a few months and never involved intercourse. What I sketched out above is what, if I experienced it, would feel 100% "normal." Hope that helps.
posted by Tomorrowful at 8:10 AM on August 14, 2010
Oh, and emphatic agreement with Forktine. Now that I'm a few years out of college, "naked" pretty much always means "oral sex, at least," and without explicit information to the contrary, I'd expect it. That said, if a girl made it clear that she was interested in naked-makeouts, I'd probably indulge her. Then again, I'm fond of the feeling of anticipation; others are probably more likely to find it more frustrating than I would.
posted by Tomorrowful at 8:14 AM on August 14, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Tomorrowful at 8:14 AM on August 14, 2010 [2 favorites]
There's definitely no set progression; every experience is different. Sometimes the first date leaves you panting and breathless in the back seat of a car behind a very busy downtown hospital. Other times it's a slow and lovely and gentle process that may gracefully take over a month. It really depends on the immediate chemistry.
I think the reason I end up in the predicament is because I like being naked with someone, but I feel it's rude if I don't finish him off.
It's perfectly acceptable to ask for non-genital-focused/non-penetrative naked time. And it's not rude to not finish him off, but being aware and acknowledging the possibility that he may come down with a nasty case of vasocongestion (blue balls) is really the polite way to go. Ideally, it would go down like so:
#1: Let's have naked time!
#2: OK! *strip*
#1: I only want kissing and naked rubbing, k? No mouth-on-junk or junk-on-junk action.
#2: OK!
#1: You absolutely sure? I know it might be painful for you.
#2: OK! I can take care of myself!
~~**stuff happens**~~
#1: Mmm
#2: Mmm. I'll brb, k?
Now, if it's an enjoyable time, it can go several ways here, and it all depends on how you feel at this point:
- Mmm. Have fun. *wink*
- Mmm. Have fun. I'll be thinking about you. *wink*
- Mmm. Actually, you stay here and I'll brb. *wink*
- Mmm. You know, if you brb, I can't watch. *wink*
- Mmm. Hey! What about me? *wink*
- Mmm. Here, let me help you with that. *wink*
- Mmm. My good sir, I would be most pleased if we were to engage in a mutually masturbatory endeavor! *wink*
- Ew dude. GTFO.
It's really that easy. It's been asked of me, and I will definitely consider the possibilities before agreeing.
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 8:20 AM on August 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
I think the reason I end up in the predicament is because I like being naked with someone, but I feel it's rude if I don't finish him off.
It's perfectly acceptable to ask for non-genital-focused/non-penetrative naked time. And it's not rude to not finish him off, but being aware and acknowledging the possibility that he may come down with a nasty case of vasocongestion (blue balls) is really the polite way to go. Ideally, it would go down like so:
#1: Let's have naked time!
#2: OK! *strip*
#1: I only want kissing and naked rubbing, k? No mouth-on-junk or junk-on-junk action.
#2: OK!
#1: You absolutely sure? I know it might be painful for you.
#2: OK! I can take care of myself!
~~**stuff happens**~~
#1: Mmm
#2: Mmm. I'll brb, k?
Now, if it's an enjoyable time, it can go several ways here, and it all depends on how you feel at this point:
- Mmm. Have fun. *wink*
- Mmm. Have fun. I'll be thinking about you. *wink*
- Mmm. Actually, you stay here and I'll brb. *wink*
- Mmm. You know, if you brb, I can't watch. *wink*
- Mmm. Hey! What about me? *wink*
- Mmm. Here, let me help you with that. *wink*
- Mmm. My good sir, I would be most pleased if we were to engage in a mutually masturbatory endeavor! *wink*
- Ew dude. GTFO.
It's really that easy. It's been asked of me, and I will definitely consider the possibilities before agreeing.
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 8:20 AM on August 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
But you're right, taking things slow is something to be appreciated. The most amazing partners I've ever had were into taking things slow and sensually during a session in bed, touching and kissing all over our bodies, so much more intimate. These were the people who were fun to be simply naked with, because they wanted to prolong the pleasure of the actions in itself, weren't always into rushing to the finish. If you want to do it this way, then simply explain it to your partner and if he doesn't like it, if he's not into the act in itself and just wants to get off, then perhaps he's not right for you.
Exactly. Plus over a few times it increases the comfort/intimacy level and makes the actual act far more meaningful and also better physically because you start to get into wanting to give pleasure rather than "just do it". it goes from just two people being physical to this particular person whom you want to have fun with and make happy
posted by infini at 8:30 AM on August 14, 2010
Exactly. Plus over a few times it increases the comfort/intimacy level and makes the actual act far more meaningful and also better physically because you start to get into wanting to give pleasure rather than "just do it". it goes from just two people being physical to this particular person whom you want to have fun with and make happy
posted by infini at 8:30 AM on August 14, 2010
I think the reason I end up in the predicament is because I like being naked with someone, but I feel it's rude if I don't finish him off.
Nah, it just requires a disclaimer. I've had plenty of relationships where we've drawn some lines at certain stopping points for awhile, and the explanation doesn't need to be much more complicated than "this is what I'm comfortable with for now." It can be a very hot way to explore their responses and vice-versa.
If I have really good chemistry with someone, we can have a fantastic time devoting A LOT of time to any particular stage, even if we've previously gone further. But you definitely need that chemistry and some shared sense of fun for this approach to work.
My perspective is that I don't always come, orgasm is not the end-all be-all of a successful sex life, I don't even necessarily consider it the goal, and making me come does not necessarily mean that it was better sex than that other time that I didn't come. Orgasms are awesome, but less so if the sex that got me there was just okay. (If I just wanted to come reliably and quickly, I have a Hitachi. That's GREAT, but it ain't a person.)
posted by desuetude at 9:44 AM on August 14, 2010
Nah, it just requires a disclaimer. I've had plenty of relationships where we've drawn some lines at certain stopping points for awhile, and the explanation doesn't need to be much more complicated than "this is what I'm comfortable with for now." It can be a very hot way to explore their responses and vice-versa.
If I have really good chemistry with someone, we can have a fantastic time devoting A LOT of time to any particular stage, even if we've previously gone further. But you definitely need that chemistry and some shared sense of fun for this approach to work.
My perspective is that I don't always come, orgasm is not the end-all be-all of a successful sex life, I don't even necessarily consider it the goal, and making me come does not necessarily mean that it was better sex than that other time that I didn't come. Orgasms are awesome, but less so if the sex that got me there was just okay. (If I just wanted to come reliably and quickly, I have a Hitachi. That's GREAT, but it ain't a person.)
posted by desuetude at 9:44 AM on August 14, 2010
For example, is it common to just make out naked on the bed without it going farther?
For me, not since college. That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with this approach, I just think that it's worth knowing that it's outside the norm so like desuetude says, make sure there's a disclaimer. As a serial monogamist adult, I sort of figure if I'm at the heavy make out phase with someone and there's no obvious baggage/issues, I assume we'll be having sex at some point. If we weren't, I'd want to know why. And if the reason sounded fine, then fine.
More to the point, if there was someone who wanted to be in a sexual relationship with me, but had a lot of space between different "levels" of what that meant, that would be a bad fit for me. I've had a few dating relationships that were kissing-snuggling oriented, but once they got to the pants-off stage, my experience has been that most sexual activity was at least an option at that point. So progression in my world is more like
- light touching, flirting
- kissing and a little mild groping
- footling around with clothing, heavy breathing
- all other sexual activity
When I was in high school there was definitely a more step approach to this sort of thing and it all mattered an awful lot. Now that I have my own bedroom/apartment/automobile I'm really just into doing whatever feels good. My only caveat is that there was one guy I was dating who was a bit of an extended-make-out guy who said he wanted to take it slow and whatever. I said "great sure whatever" but after a while [months] it nagged at me and I asked him about it. Turns out he was dating a few people and wanted to sort of "pick one" to be intimate with and went about it in this odd fashion. We weren't exclusive and it wasn't a big deal really [though I extricated myself from the situation anyhow] but now when someone my age [40s] tells me they want to take it slow it's a bit of a warning sign. YMMV, but just a flip side of the coin anecdote.
posted by jessamyn at 10:14 AM on August 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
For me, not since college. That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with this approach, I just think that it's worth knowing that it's outside the norm so like desuetude says, make sure there's a disclaimer. As a serial monogamist adult, I sort of figure if I'm at the heavy make out phase with someone and there's no obvious baggage/issues, I assume we'll be having sex at some point. If we weren't, I'd want to know why. And if the reason sounded fine, then fine.
More to the point, if there was someone who wanted to be in a sexual relationship with me, but had a lot of space between different "levels" of what that meant, that would be a bad fit for me. I've had a few dating relationships that were kissing-snuggling oriented, but once they got to the pants-off stage, my experience has been that most sexual activity was at least an option at that point. So progression in my world is more like
- light touching, flirting
- kissing and a little mild groping
- footling around with clothing, heavy breathing
- all other sexual activity
When I was in high school there was definitely a more step approach to this sort of thing and it all mattered an awful lot. Now that I have my own bedroom/apartment/automobile I'm really just into doing whatever feels good. My only caveat is that there was one guy I was dating who was a bit of an extended-make-out guy who said he wanted to take it slow and whatever. I said "great sure whatever" but after a while [months] it nagged at me and I asked him about it. Turns out he was dating a few people and wanted to sort of "pick one" to be intimate with and went about it in this odd fashion. We weren't exclusive and it wasn't a big deal really [though I extricated myself from the situation anyhow] but now when someone my age [40s] tells me they want to take it slow it's a bit of a warning sign. YMMV, but just a flip side of the coin anecdote.
posted by jessamyn at 10:14 AM on August 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
For example, is it common to just make out naked on the bed without it going farther?
This is where you get into grey areas you need to define for yourself and communicate to the guy: what is "make out naked"? To me making out means clothes on, for the most part (that's part of the sexyness of it), and there's a lot of kissing and touching, perhaps hands on genitals. Orgasms are not sure thing, as the hotness of not finishing makes the future erotic.
Would that be frustrating for the man?
Honestly, we're not all a like. No, seriously. You need to communicate what you want and need to each guy.
Example:
For me it might be frustrating, sure, but it might not be a big deal. If you've said you want to take things slow but you're not exactly sure where to stop, well yeah it might be frustrating, but that might be ok 'cause I may really like you and be willing to wait a while if I feel the relationship has strong potential.
If I'm feeling it's more of a friends with benefits thing, it would be really annoying, especially if you've sent signals that you are as eager for the rain of orgasms as I am. If we're both naked in bed and then I found out you're not interested in orgasms or penis in vagina sex at that time, you start sounding flaky or that we have communication issues at the early stages over fun stuff thus don't have a peaceful and fun future, which is what I need and desire from any relationship.
If we've been in a relationship for a while and we're in love, hell yeah laying naked with each other, taking baths and showering together, touching each other without it necessarily leading to orgasms damn well better be on the menu!
If I were in my 20s, I'd be pretty frustrated, but again might be willing to work with. As I approach 40 and see death winking at me from the horizon, waiting seems pretty foolish and smells of someone full of baggage i.e. I don't want. At this stage, every orgasm is a middle finger to death and I want to give the fucker lots of middle fingers before we meet. Someone who gets in the way of that isn't going to be around long.
Summing it up: define what you want and then communicate it to the guy. When clothes come off you should both have a very good idea of what's going to happen. The answers to your questions can vary from guy to guy and even vary depending on what stage the relationship is out. Figure out what you want or at least know that you're not sure and communicate, communicate, communicate.
posted by nomadicink at 10:55 AM on August 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is where you get into grey areas you need to define for yourself and communicate to the guy: what is "make out naked"? To me making out means clothes on, for the most part (that's part of the sexyness of it), and there's a lot of kissing and touching, perhaps hands on genitals. Orgasms are not sure thing, as the hotness of not finishing makes the future erotic.
Would that be frustrating for the man?
Honestly, we're not all a like. No, seriously. You need to communicate what you want and need to each guy.
Example:
For me it might be frustrating, sure, but it might not be a big deal. If you've said you want to take things slow but you're not exactly sure where to stop, well yeah it might be frustrating, but that might be ok 'cause I may really like you and be willing to wait a while if I feel the relationship has strong potential.
If I'm feeling it's more of a friends with benefits thing, it would be really annoying, especially if you've sent signals that you are as eager for the rain of orgasms as I am. If we're both naked in bed and then I found out you're not interested in orgasms or penis in vagina sex at that time, you start sounding flaky or that we have communication issues at the early stages over fun stuff thus don't have a peaceful and fun future, which is what I need and desire from any relationship.
If we've been in a relationship for a while and we're in love, hell yeah laying naked with each other, taking baths and showering together, touching each other without it necessarily leading to orgasms damn well better be on the menu!
If I were in my 20s, I'd be pretty frustrated, but again might be willing to work with. As I approach 40 and see death winking at me from the horizon, waiting seems pretty foolish and smells of someone full of baggage i.e. I don't want. At this stage, every orgasm is a middle finger to death and I want to give the fucker lots of middle fingers before we meet. Someone who gets in the way of that isn't going to be around long.
Summing it up: define what you want and then communicate it to the guy. When clothes come off you should both have a very good idea of what's going to happen. The answers to your questions can vary from guy to guy and even vary depending on what stage the relationship is out. Figure out what you want or at least know that you're not sure and communicate, communicate, communicate.
posted by nomadicink at 10:55 AM on August 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
You get naked? Then why stop ? Finishing him off sounds like "happy ending" from massage lady. Feel hot? then just do it.
posted by Postroad at 10:55 AM on August 14, 2010
posted by Postroad at 10:55 AM on August 14, 2010
Lots of good answers above, but I just wanted to comment on this line:
I'm very familiar with oral, but less with hand jobs, which is why I sometimes move directly to oral, probably skipping a "step" in the common progression of sexual activities
I think any notion of 'steps' is a vague one at best. It's not like you have to win each stage to unlock the next level. I can't imagine many people would think you were going to fast because you jumped from making out to oral and skipped a hand job in between.
posted by twirlypen at 1:00 PM on August 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm very familiar with oral, but less with hand jobs, which is why I sometimes move directly to oral, probably skipping a "step" in the common progression of sexual activities
I think any notion of 'steps' is a vague one at best. It's not like you have to win each stage to unlock the next level. I can't imagine many people would think you were going to fast because you jumped from making out to oral and skipped a hand job in between.
posted by twirlypen at 1:00 PM on August 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think any notion of 'steps' is a vague one at best.
I think notions of steps are more likely to be very specific, but entirely artificial, and like Jessamyn says, something you only really bother with when just sort of feeling out your own sexuality (high school / college). Once you've got a sense of what you like and what works for you, any of those "guidelines" reveal themselves as nothing but cultural mythology, and entirely dependent on the mini-culture you're part of (i.e., the scene at your high school or college and what your friends consider "normal").
If you enjoy naked cuddling and building up to sex over a longer stretch of time, you should communicate that, hope to find sexually compatible partners who also feel that way - and/or partners willing to compromise their own ideal version of things to try out some of what you are into (& presumably vice versa).
Yes, it varies, but I'm not sure that's all that helpful to the OP, who's asking "What's the average pattern?"
For me, "normal" means the following progression.
yeah, but there really isn't an average pattern. There may be a pattern that is normal to you, but it's not what I would call normal for me. There may be dates that don't end in a kiss, and dates that end in a kiss but don't go further, but once someone goes back to someone's house, I think the common assumption is that it's time for sex. That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions, let's take it slow, etc, but to go to "second base" or whatever, and then just get up and say goodnight, seems kinda weird to me, unless there's a particular excuse or explanation.
posted by mdn at 1:51 PM on August 14, 2010
I think notions of steps are more likely to be very specific, but entirely artificial, and like Jessamyn says, something you only really bother with when just sort of feeling out your own sexuality (high school / college). Once you've got a sense of what you like and what works for you, any of those "guidelines" reveal themselves as nothing but cultural mythology, and entirely dependent on the mini-culture you're part of (i.e., the scene at your high school or college and what your friends consider "normal").
If you enjoy naked cuddling and building up to sex over a longer stretch of time, you should communicate that, hope to find sexually compatible partners who also feel that way - and/or partners willing to compromise their own ideal version of things to try out some of what you are into (& presumably vice versa).
Yes, it varies, but I'm not sure that's all that helpful to the OP, who's asking "What's the average pattern?"
For me, "normal" means the following progression.
yeah, but there really isn't an average pattern. There may be a pattern that is normal to you, but it's not what I would call normal for me. There may be dates that don't end in a kiss, and dates that end in a kiss but don't go further, but once someone goes back to someone's house, I think the common assumption is that it's time for sex. That doesn't mean there aren't exceptions, let's take it slow, etc, but to go to "second base" or whatever, and then just get up and say goodnight, seems kinda weird to me, unless there's a particular excuse or explanation.
posted by mdn at 1:51 PM on August 14, 2010
I think the reason I end up in the predicament is because I like being naked with someone, but I feel it's rude if I don't finish him off.
It isn't rude if you inform him beforehand where the lines are.
People have a built in sexual system. Engaging in sexual activity does highten arousal and increase emotional energy, attachment and attraction. And it can be difficult for one partner who expects more than the other to deal with the disappointment of not fulfilling rising desires. But if we live in a society where people have the final say over their own sexuality.
This means either party can say no at any time. And yes, it can be difficult when the other party was hoping for more, especially based on the content and level of sexual activity. But them's the breaks.
But if you want to be considerate and lessen the disappointment for the other party, set the boundaries ahead of time. That way everyone knows where the line is and can adjust their expectations ahead of time.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:07 PM on August 14, 2010
It isn't rude if you inform him beforehand where the lines are.
People have a built in sexual system. Engaging in sexual activity does highten arousal and increase emotional energy, attachment and attraction. And it can be difficult for one partner who expects more than the other to deal with the disappointment of not fulfilling rising desires. But if we live in a society where people have the final say over their own sexuality.
This means either party can say no at any time. And yes, it can be difficult when the other party was hoping for more, especially based on the content and level of sexual activity. But them's the breaks.
But if you want to be considerate and lessen the disappointment for the other party, set the boundaries ahead of time. That way everyone knows where the line is and can adjust their expectations ahead of time.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:07 PM on August 14, 2010
What's unfortunately not common and really ought to be is talking about this with your partner. Everyone is different despite what's common or pop culture. Some people are okay with certain paces and certain activities, and others aren't. The only way to ever know if something is okay or not is to bring it up and ask.
posted by vienaragis at 5:10 PM on August 14, 2010
posted by vienaragis at 5:10 PM on August 14, 2010
I just honestly do not know how these things are supposed to work and need things spelled out for me. In addition, it would be especially helpful is people could explicitly state, in their experience, the number of dates and the exact progression of activity.
believing that there is an answer to this question leaves you vulnerable to any good story a sexual partner gives you about what's "normal"
it's negotiated, ideally in an ongoing playful happy explicit way, with every new partner.
posted by vitabellosi at 6:06 PM on August 14, 2010
believing that there is an answer to this question leaves you vulnerable to any good story a sexual partner gives you about what's "normal"
it's negotiated, ideally in an ongoing playful happy explicit way, with every new partner.
posted by vitabellosi at 6:06 PM on August 14, 2010
Gawd. Semi-naked make-out time is the best.
I have always been *crazy* relieved and excited when a woman is empowered and confident enough to say, "let's do (a) but not (b) today/yet." Every relationship is different and since our culture dictates that men initiate, it's an incredible stress to always be playing mind reader.
The absolute worst is a totally directionless, "let's slow it down," because I'm a good guy and I respect and treat a I-don't-know as a "no." And when a person sets a boundary it becomes their job to manage the boundary: both to maintain it (firmly, clearly, sometimes patiently but without suffering manipulation) and to proactively and enthusiastically declare when it is obsolete.
The other worst thing is to watch a woman struggle with/rationalize out the virgin/whore insecurities that society pushes on women in the heat of makey outty time. I don't think that's too relevant for OP, but I think the take away point is to be confident, figure out your own pace beforehand and stick to it clearly and firmly until real trust is established. And communicate. If dude isn't up for a little direct talk before makey outty time, then dude hasn't figured out yet that sex + communication is the best kind of sex and he could use a lesson in patience anyway.
posted by Skwirl at 7:10 PM on August 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
I have always been *crazy* relieved and excited when a woman is empowered and confident enough to say, "let's do (a) but not (b) today/yet." Every relationship is different and since our culture dictates that men initiate, it's an incredible stress to always be playing mind reader.
The absolute worst is a totally directionless, "let's slow it down," because I'm a good guy and I respect and treat a I-don't-know as a "no." And when a person sets a boundary it becomes their job to manage the boundary: both to maintain it (firmly, clearly, sometimes patiently but without suffering manipulation) and to proactively and enthusiastically declare when it is obsolete.
The other worst thing is to watch a woman struggle with/rationalize out the virgin/whore insecurities that society pushes on women in the heat of makey outty time. I don't think that's too relevant for OP, but I think the take away point is to be confident, figure out your own pace beforehand and stick to it clearly and firmly until real trust is established. And communicate. If dude isn't up for a little direct talk before makey outty time, then dude hasn't figured out yet that sex + communication is the best kind of sex and he could use a lesson in patience anyway.
posted by Skwirl at 7:10 PM on August 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
There is no pace - it's what's comfortable and feels right. I wouldn't recommend going hardcore on the first date or when first meeting but your call. Overall, your question is like asking what is the best ice cream flavor; everyone is going to have a different answer. Go by what you feel is right, if you want to go back to your/his place and do whatever, go for it. I've quick glanced through other posts and saw you like being naked which is fine. As a guy, if a girl is naked and I don't get laid - it's a gut shot. Try some mesh shorts and a t-shirt. But overall, just go by what feels right. My longest relationships have been the ones where we progressed naturally, the one we held out on only lasted 3 months, and I'm engaged/dating to an ex-booty call for 4 years.
posted by lpcxa0 at 8:36 PM on August 14, 2010
posted by lpcxa0 at 8:36 PM on August 14, 2010
I think there are plenty of guys who'd have no problem cuddling naked without going any further, but they might need you to explicitly tell them that's what you're interested in. Like, "You know, I'd really love to have some naked cuddle time but I'm not really feeling up for sex quite yet. Is that okay?" (although phrased differently, of course) You'd also have to be ready for them to say they're okay with it but keep pushing for more in the heat of the moment, in which case you'd have to gently push back and remind them of what you are and aren't up for.
This. I love naked cuddling; it's /awesome/, and not just sexually. And actually, the quote above (the one preceeding "although phrased differently, of course") is exactly what I would want my partner to say. Exactly. Even if you don't say that, though, say something, because otherwise there's likely to be an assumption - hey, we're getting naked now, that means sex.
Do be aware, though, that this will almost certainly result in an erection. Which is fine; it's just important that you not interpret it as a sign that he's itching to move forward. One of my female friends put it very well: "breasts are not like penises. They don't automatically assume any touch means SEX NOW NOW NOW". But although his penis may think that way, it doesn't mean he does.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 9:35 PM on August 14, 2010
This. I love naked cuddling; it's /awesome/, and not just sexually. And actually, the quote above (the one preceeding "although phrased differently, of course") is exactly what I would want my partner to say. Exactly. Even if you don't say that, though, say something, because otherwise there's likely to be an assumption - hey, we're getting naked now, that means sex.
Do be aware, though, that this will almost certainly result in an erection. Which is fine; it's just important that you not interpret it as a sign that he's itching to move forward. One of my female friends put it very well: "breasts are not like penises. They don't automatically assume any touch means SEX NOW NOW NOW". But although his penis may think that way, it doesn't mean he does.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 9:35 PM on August 14, 2010
By focussing on steps, I don't think you are concentrating on your own arousal and comfort. Surely that's the best indicator of when you get naked and into bed with someone. For example, I wouldn't allow breast groping unless my nipples were already happy to be groped if you know what I mean. Similarly I wouldn't take off my panties..... you get the picture. Similarly if you do not get hot at the thought of bringing your partner off don't do it. So be guided by your own arousal and let that dictate the pace.
posted by Wilder at 3:57 AM on August 15, 2010
posted by Wilder at 3:57 AM on August 15, 2010
Skwirl and spaceman_spiff have, I think, wonderful suggestions, but I say that only because I see it in my happy/pleasing/working relationships, which have always germinate from 1.) trusting friendship and 2.) my view (which has taken all of my lifetime to be secure with!) that romance and sex do not overpower a good friendship. It seems to have bettered them so far. If I can jabber off on the experience with menstruation or how penis size is a hilarious and dismal "problem" for men and what to know their opinions & questions, then when I'm carnal there's almost no hesitation in learning what works for him (and, in turn, for myself). It's a mixture of unhurried curiosity and pleasure where the One Standard is that we must be comfortable. And I care for their comfort and happiness as much as my own.
I have 2 concurrent, on-hold romances that will resume once fall semester begins. Romance, as specifically defined by kissing and caressing, has only lasted for at most a month for both. But both friendships have existed for over a year at least and I still continue the public joking and kid-play that preceded all that sexual stuff. Any other relationship with men who were less than good friends always ended because I was unwilling, uncomfortable and not aroused whatsoever when those sweet moment lead to heavy snogging. Every. Goddamn. Time. And did I say anything? Did I try showing my partner light kisses rather than gnawing on each other's necks? No.
My actual advice to the OP? Just because X & Y acts are introduced into a relationship does not mean that every session you have with that partner must have X & Y again, and again, and again. Neither does sleeping with a man naked = sex, unless that man thinks it insulting. In which case it's his desire, not yours, imposing itself on what the idea of "sleeping together" is-- or your idea of what "the average man" wants rather than what your partner wants. Part of it seems being unhurried enough to revel in the relationship as much as half-reading and half-suggesting things to each other.
posted by SallySpades at 4:06 AM on August 15, 2010
I have 2 concurrent, on-hold romances that will resume once fall semester begins. Romance, as specifically defined by kissing and caressing, has only lasted for at most a month for both. But both friendships have existed for over a year at least and I still continue the public joking and kid-play that preceded all that sexual stuff. Any other relationship with men who were less than good friends always ended because I was unwilling, uncomfortable and not aroused whatsoever when those sweet moment lead to heavy snogging. Every. Goddamn. Time. And did I say anything? Did I try showing my partner light kisses rather than gnawing on each other's necks? No.
My actual advice to the OP? Just because X & Y acts are introduced into a relationship does not mean that every session you have with that partner must have X & Y again, and again, and again. Neither does sleeping with a man naked = sex, unless that man thinks it insulting. In which case it's his desire, not yours, imposing itself on what the idea of "sleeping together" is-- or your idea of what "the average man" wants rather than what your partner wants. Part of it seems being unhurried enough to revel in the relationship as much as half-reading and half-suggesting things to each other.
posted by SallySpades at 4:06 AM on August 15, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by WhiteWhale at 7:19 AM on August 14, 2010