indoor vs. outdoor cats
March 9, 2005 10:22 AM Subscribe
Do your let your cats outdoors? Why or why not?
I have an eight month old kitten at home who is currently indoors-only, mostly because of his age and because I live out in the woods. However, I will be moving at the end of this year and have considered introducing him to the outdoors.
I tend to lean towards keeping cats inside. The outdoor cats I've had previously have all died young, while I've seen indoor cats push twenty. But I am swayed by the argument that cats are animals and belong outside. He is fixed and still has claws, so that's not an issue.
I'm sure there are plenty of examples of outdoor cats who met terrible ends, but will a cat who spends his life indoors be missing out on something important? If I do decide to let him out, any advice on how to safely introduce him to the new environment?
I have an eight month old kitten at home who is currently indoors-only, mostly because of his age and because I live out in the woods. However, I will be moving at the end of this year and have considered introducing him to the outdoors.
I tend to lean towards keeping cats inside. The outdoor cats I've had previously have all died young, while I've seen indoor cats push twenty. But I am swayed by the argument that cats are animals and belong outside. He is fixed and still has claws, so that's not an issue.
I'm sure there are plenty of examples of outdoor cats who met terrible ends, but will a cat who spends his life indoors be missing out on something important? If I do decide to let him out, any advice on how to safely introduce him to the new environment?
I feel your pain and once had a feral cooncat who couldn't be kept indoors for anything, he would've clawed his way through the walls. But he died at several years old, poisoned by an SOB who was putting out dishes of antifreeze.
I keep all my cats inside these days, and they're all very happy. Only one of four ever wants to go out, and if she somehow sneaks out she comes back within an hour.
Lifespan statistics are definitely longer for indoor cats, and some groups (like, I believe, the APL) will make you sign a promise to keep your newly adopted cat ONLY indoors.
Bonus: as nitsju said, no fleas. No worms. No chance of rabies, and vets will often tell you the shots are "optional" and unneeded for indoor cats.
Indoors is always best, IMHO.
posted by Shane at 10:35 AM on March 9, 2005
I keep all my cats inside these days, and they're all very happy. Only one of four ever wants to go out, and if she somehow sneaks out she comes back within an hour.
Lifespan statistics are definitely longer for indoor cats, and some groups (like, I believe, the APL) will make you sign a promise to keep your newly adopted cat ONLY indoors.
Bonus: as nitsju said, no fleas. No worms. No chance of rabies, and vets will often tell you the shots are "optional" and unneeded for indoor cats.
Indoors is always best, IMHO.
posted by Shane at 10:35 AM on March 9, 2005
With my outdoor cat, I had to become used to the idea that he may or may not come around for a few days. This was when I was younger and my family went from a small yard where he roamed to a decent piece of land that connected up with a park. He always came home though (except for when he died--which was to be expected since by then he had lived a long life).
Currently, my two cats are indoor only. Sometimes, it looks like they are missing something as they hunt the birds they can only see from the windows. But, we live in Brooklyn, NY and these cats are from Chicago, IL. It just seemed like a good idea to keep them indoors. :)
Actually, they refuse to go beyond the apartment door and dislike being outside from everything I can tell about their responses to it. They are about 5 years old now, perhaps they have been conditioned.
posted by safetyfork at 10:36 AM on March 9, 2005
Currently, my two cats are indoor only. Sometimes, it looks like they are missing something as they hunt the birds they can only see from the windows. But, we live in Brooklyn, NY and these cats are from Chicago, IL. It just seemed like a good idea to keep them indoors. :)
Actually, they refuse to go beyond the apartment door and dislike being outside from everything I can tell about their responses to it. They are about 5 years old now, perhaps they have been conditioned.
posted by safetyfork at 10:36 AM on March 9, 2005
We don't let our cats out for two reasons: Coyotes and stupid people who let their dogs out.
posted by normy at 10:39 AM on March 9, 2005
posted by normy at 10:39 AM on March 9, 2005
My cat is indoor only, and I would never make him an outdoor cat. I have seen cats hit and killed in the street in front of our house, for one thing, and I also would be concerned for him getting in fights with dogs or other cats. From purely a health standpoint, I think it makes sense to keep my cat indoors. We leave windows with screens open for him as much of the year as we can, and though he'll show an interest in slipping out the door I think his life is a happy one. I also think that at this point in his life he's lost his "street smarts" and would not know how to fend for himself outside.
Beyond the cat's health, I think that a free-ranging cat can cause problems for other people in the neighborhood as well as birds. I personally keep my cat indoors because I think it's the responsible thing to do.
posted by handful of rain at 10:40 AM on March 9, 2005
Beyond the cat's health, I think that a free-ranging cat can cause problems for other people in the neighborhood as well as birds. I personally keep my cat indoors because I think it's the responsible thing to do.
posted by handful of rain at 10:40 AM on March 9, 2005
The reason I kept my cat indoors was because I was scared she'd get hit by a car (even though she very much wanted to get out). It sounds like you live in an area where this won't be as much of an issue; but where are you moving to? (I did have a friend who lost a cat to a coyote because they lived out in the boonies.)
Yeah, cats tend to be independent and like to have access to the great outdoors, but there are diseases and such to consider. That aside, I think I'd make my decision based on car traffic and how much territory your kitty would have indoors. Do you have any other pets? How big is your new place? Will there be enough room that the cat can have a variety of places to hang out?
Another thing to consider: the songbird population in many parts of the USA has been seriously depleted due to feline hunters.
posted by Specklet at 10:42 AM on March 9, 2005
Yeah, cats tend to be independent and like to have access to the great outdoors, but there are diseases and such to consider. That aside, I think I'd make my decision based on car traffic and how much territory your kitty would have indoors. Do you have any other pets? How big is your new place? Will there be enough room that the cat can have a variety of places to hang out?
Another thing to consider: the songbird population in many parts of the USA has been seriously depleted due to feline hunters.
posted by Specklet at 10:42 AM on March 9, 2005
There is really no question but that indoor cats have better health and live longer, as they are protected from dogs, fleas, contagious feline diseases, fighting with other cats, cars, wildlife, psychopaths, etc.
I once, however, had a cat who simply couldn't stay inside, so I did let him out and hoped for the best.
The main thing about being indoors is that it can be boring for your cat - that's why we're much happier having 2 cats, as they can keep each other company and play around when no one is home.
posted by jasper411 at 10:42 AM on March 9, 2005
I once, however, had a cat who simply couldn't stay inside, so I did let him out and hoped for the best.
The main thing about being indoors is that it can be boring for your cat - that's why we're much happier having 2 cats, as they can keep each other company and play around when no one is home.
posted by jasper411 at 10:42 AM on March 9, 2005
Another vote for indoor only. The SPCA recommends it, every vet I've talked to recommends it, and the statistics don't lie. Your cat will live a longer, healthier life if they're an indoor cat.
posted by Kellydamnit at 10:42 AM on March 9, 2005
posted by Kellydamnit at 10:42 AM on March 9, 2005
Would it be possible to split the difference and give your cat some supervised outdoor time? Either in a fenced yard or just by putting aside some time where you can be outside to keep an eye on it? We did this with cats I grew up with (both lived to be eighteen) and after a little while they would get bored and come back in on their own and it would cure their outdoor jones for a while.
posted by Cyrano at 10:44 AM on March 9, 2005
posted by Cyrano at 10:44 AM on March 9, 2005
Indoors only. Cars, kids with firecrackers, pellet guns, real guns, dogs, puddles of antifreeze, coyotes, fighting with other cats, eating diseased wildlife, fleas, ticks, worms, et cetera ad nauseam.
Your kitty doesn't know what he's missing--he doesn't have that kind of brain.
posted by scratch at 10:45 AM on March 9, 2005
Your kitty doesn't know what he's missing--he doesn't have that kind of brain.
posted by scratch at 10:45 AM on March 9, 2005
My kids are indoor only. The very idea that they would get outside terrifies me. They haven't ever been outside, except for one ill-fated three-second trip to the porch, where the offending escapee was squooshed by my husband and summarily drug back inside. Outdoor cats are not as durable as indoor cats, due to issues already cited here. My kids look at the birds, sit in the sunny spots on the floor, and play with their toys inside. They don't seem to be missing anything. Neither of them has ever tried to escape except for the one-time incident above, and that was because another cat was in the yard neenering at him.
If you really think your cats want to go outside, they make these cat playpen type apparatuses that you can allow your cats outside in. I would supervise mine, but that's me.
posted by Medieval Maven at 10:45 AM on March 9, 2005
If you really think your cats want to go outside, they make these cat playpen type apparatuses that you can allow your cats outside in. I would supervise mine, but that's me.
posted by Medieval Maven at 10:45 AM on March 9, 2005
...poisoned by an SOB who was putting out dishes of antifreeze.
What a sick fuck. Someone should lay bear traps around their home and see how they like it.
Like others, my cat is purely indoors and that is exactly where she stays even if given the option of exploring the greater outdoors. Cats are habit-formed so once they are used to a specific environment I doubt they spend a lot of time brooding over the possibilities of different environment and/or lifestyle. At times, I am a little worried about my cat being indoors all of the time, but I have fairly low windows with ledges that I keep open all year that she monopolizes for her fresh air and bird watching. It's not perfect, but the thought of what could happen to her on the outside helps me keep a level head about her (arguably) healthy indoor lifestyle.
Besides, every vet I have ever talked to tells me to keep her indoors. I would imagine that they know what is good for my cat much, much better than I do.
posted by purephase at 10:49 AM on March 9, 2005
What a sick fuck. Someone should lay bear traps around their home and see how they like it.
Like others, my cat is purely indoors and that is exactly where she stays even if given the option of exploring the greater outdoors. Cats are habit-formed so once they are used to a specific environment I doubt they spend a lot of time brooding over the possibilities of different environment and/or lifestyle. At times, I am a little worried about my cat being indoors all of the time, but I have fairly low windows with ledges that I keep open all year that she monopolizes for her fresh air and bird watching. It's not perfect, but the thought of what could happen to her on the outside helps me keep a level head about her (arguably) healthy indoor lifestyle.
Besides, every vet I have ever talked to tells me to keep her indoors. I would imagine that they know what is good for my cat much, much better than I do.
posted by purephase at 10:49 AM on March 9, 2005
This is an interesting cultural difference - In the UK, very very few people keep their cats indoors. The RSPCA says they need a garden or place to exercise and suggests they need to come and go as they please. Even though I lost one of mine recently, I wouldn't dream of keeping the other two in, and I'm fairly sure that none of my cat-owning friends would consider it (except for one, who lives in a tower block, and as far as I'm concerned that's a whole new can of worms).
posted by handee at 10:54 AM on March 9, 2005
posted by handee at 10:54 AM on March 9, 2005
While it's true that cats can get bored--hence the use-value (besides the entertainment value) of more than one cat--it's not necessarily the case that "boredom"="wants to go outside." My cats, who have spent their entire lives indoors, have shown zero interest in attempting the great outdoors, even when opportunity has knocked (or literally opened a door).
Oh, and as for why they're indoors: small, feline-eating predators; nothing in my neighborhood is fenced, meaning that roaming dogs can roam right into my yard; and outdoor cats around here have a very short lifespan.
posted by thomas j wise at 11:00 AM on March 9, 2005
Oh, and as for why they're indoors: small, feline-eating predators; nothing in my neighborhood is fenced, meaning that roaming dogs can roam right into my yard; and outdoor cats around here have a very short lifespan.
posted by thomas j wise at 11:00 AM on March 9, 2005
Unless you live on a farm, keep him indoors. When he gets older & starts fighting he'll run a significant risk of feline immunodeficiency virus.
posted by Pressed Rat at 11:01 AM on March 9, 2005
posted by Pressed Rat at 11:01 AM on March 9, 2005
I've been living in a place with a small back yard and my cats, both originally strays, like to go out. This is in a back alley in the middle of a fairly large city. They have no reason to stray far beyond the yard, and have always come back (one is now about 10 and one is getting on for 7). My old cat made it to 20 years and she went out every day. This isn't to say it's ideal: it's very much dependent on individual circumstances, the layout of the apartment and access to the outdoors, the local streets, the attitude of the cats, the attitude of adjoining neighbours, presence of dogs, and so on.
I've had to rescue one of my current cats twice, once from getting treed on a balcony with no egress, and once from falling into a small courtyard from which there was no egress. (I had to lower a basket on a rope from someone's back balcony, that time, and lift her out.) It's worked out OK for me and my cats so far but I'm always aware it has its hazards.
posted by zadcat at 11:02 AM on March 9, 2005
I've had to rescue one of my current cats twice, once from getting treed on a balcony with no egress, and once from falling into a small courtyard from which there was no egress. (I had to lower a basket on a rope from someone's back balcony, that time, and lift her out.) It's worked out OK for me and my cats so far but I'm always aware it has its hazards.
posted by zadcat at 11:02 AM on March 9, 2005
Save the wild songbirds! Keep your cat inside!
From a very recent Minneapolis Star Tribune Article: "In a 1996 paper published by University of Wisconsin ecology Prof. Stanley Temple, he calculated that an estimated 1.4 million free-ranging cats in Wisconsin's rural areas were responsible for the deaths of anywhere from 7.8 million to 219 million birds every year."
Please go to the Cats Indoors website to learn more:
posted by nancoix at 11:10 AM on March 9, 2005
From a very recent Minneapolis Star Tribune Article: "In a 1996 paper published by University of Wisconsin ecology Prof. Stanley Temple, he calculated that an estimated 1.4 million free-ranging cats in Wisconsin's rural areas were responsible for the deaths of anywhere from 7.8 million to 219 million birds every year."
Please go to the Cats Indoors website to learn more:
posted by nancoix at 11:10 AM on March 9, 2005
I'm of the supervised outdoor variety. My catboys stay inside unless they are on a leash and harness. I take them out one at a time, let them eat some grass and poke around the yard, and then they come back in again after about a half hour. They didn't take long to get acclimated to the harness, and they get excited when they see me get it out. I set firm limits on where they go (just stop moving, don't tug the leash - when they meet resistance they sit down and stop moving; after a minute they get bored and try walking in another direction).
With me right there with them I can scoop them up at a seconds notice (have been clawed a few times, but the cat's safety is worth it). I also help keep bad things (read: other cats, dogs, assholes with cat-injury in mind) away. They know our yard and the church yard next door are safe, they feel secure while I am with them, and they get some exercise to boot.
Only downside is that they know Outside is there, and they want to go out. So far they're fine staying indoors in the winter, but they do occasionally sneak out. Upside is that they've been outside before, consider it their territory, and are thus relaxed when they do sneak out, which makes them much easier to grab and stuff back inside.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:11 AM on March 9, 2005
With me right there with them I can scoop them up at a seconds notice (have been clawed a few times, but the cat's safety is worth it). I also help keep bad things (read: other cats, dogs, assholes with cat-injury in mind) away. They know our yard and the church yard next door are safe, they feel secure while I am with them, and they get some exercise to boot.
Only downside is that they know Outside is there, and they want to go out. So far they're fine staying indoors in the winter, but they do occasionally sneak out. Upside is that they've been outside before, consider it their territory, and are thus relaxed when they do sneak out, which makes them much easier to grab and stuff back inside.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:11 AM on March 9, 2005
2 indoor cats. I live in Florida, right on a canal that has the occasional alligator in it. 'Nuff said.
(They do have a lanai to play on, though, which is completely enclosed by screen and safe. Kind of the best of both worlds.)
posted by contessa at 11:13 AM on March 9, 2005
(They do have a lanai to play on, though, which is completely enclosed by screen and safe. Kind of the best of both worlds.)
posted by contessa at 11:13 AM on March 9, 2005
my parents are just like handee (both in how their cat is treated, and in living in the uk).
posted by andrew cooke at 11:17 AM on March 9, 2005
posted by andrew cooke at 11:17 AM on March 9, 2005
Re: The cats (or, even more, dogs) are animals argument:
Cats and dogs are the products of thousands of years of direct human intervention in their behaviour, mating and feeding systems. They are the ultimate examples of unnatural selection. They don't call 'em Felis domesticus for nothin'.
posted by docgonzo at 11:18 AM on March 9, 2005
Cats and dogs are the products of thousands of years of direct human intervention in their behaviour, mating and feeding systems. They are the ultimate examples of unnatural selection. They don't call 'em Felis domesticus for nothin'.
posted by docgonzo at 11:18 AM on March 9, 2005
I prefer to have indoor cats, but the last two we have had were feral kittens and would constantly clamor to get outside. We couldn't train it out of them and we got tired of running the risk of catching them in the doorway.
We love them, but have decided no more feral cats for this and other reasons.
posted by whatnot at 11:20 AM on March 9, 2005
We love them, but have decided no more feral cats for this and other reasons.
posted by whatnot at 11:20 AM on March 9, 2005
My old roommate believed that cats were 'meant to be outside'. As she was also my landlord, I didn't have a whole lot of say in how she raised her cats. However, despite repeated requests that she keep my cat indoors only, she'd let it outside. On a lawn that's on an intersection of two busy streets. She had already lost one cat due to a car, and her other cat suffered brain damage. But she still let them out.
After seeing my cat nearly get hit by a car once at that apartment, I made sure that she was indoors only. I now live somewhere else, and she's been indoors only for years. She gets her fill of the outside world sitting in an open window and yowling at birds.
posted by spinifex23 at 11:23 AM on March 9, 2005
After seeing my cat nearly get hit by a car once at that apartment, I made sure that she was indoors only. I now live somewhere else, and she's been indoors only for years. She gets her fill of the outside world sitting in an open window and yowling at birds.
posted by spinifex23 at 11:23 AM on March 9, 2005
My last cat was an outdoor/indoor cat. She lived to be 18, which is a decent age; and she was a very happy cat. Living in southern california, the only real concern i had were coyotes; but i lived in a fairly urban area so that wasn't a problem. Being an outdoors cat let her "play" with birds and run through the grass and do other things cats like to do.
When i get another cat (pretty soon here), it will most likely be an all indoors cat, mainly because i've got a little bit more wildlife around my current apartment and there's a slight possibility for danger. I'd rather play it safe. But since it's an indoors cat, i'm probably going to get two because one cat alone at home can get very bored during the day while i'm gone at work.
posted by escher at 11:23 AM on March 9, 2005
When i get another cat (pretty soon here), it will most likely be an all indoors cat, mainly because i've got a little bit more wildlife around my current apartment and there's a slight possibility for danger. I'd rather play it safe. But since it's an indoors cat, i'm probably going to get two because one cat alone at home can get very bored during the day while i'm gone at work.
posted by escher at 11:23 AM on March 9, 2005
My cats are indoor/outdoor. One started life as a stray and is near impossible to keep all indoors. The other didn't go outside for the first two years of her life, is afraid of the wind, and never goes further than the porch. They both love the sunshine and the visuals -- my apartment doesn't have much of either -- and I feel that in this current abode I would really be depriving them. However, the outdoors is pretty safe here as long as they are indoors by coyote hours. So, it's a trade-off. And in the next place they may well be all indoors, especially if there's a close-offable porch. The downside, I do have to deal with fleas, there have been a couple cat fights I've had to break up, and occasionally they bitch about having to come inside.
posted by dness2 at 11:53 AM on March 9, 2005
posted by dness2 at 11:53 AM on March 9, 2005
he calculated that an estimated 1.4 million free-ranging cats in Wisconsin's rural areas were responsible for the deaths of anywhere from 7.8 million to 219 million birds every year."
That's quite the range. Glad to see they got it down to two orders of magnitude.
My cats are indoor for all the risk to life reasons above. Plus it's illegal in Calgary to let your pet roam outside your yard.
posted by Mitheral at 11:56 AM on March 9, 2005
That's quite the range. Glad to see they got it down to two orders of magnitude.
My cats are indoor for all the risk to life reasons above. Plus it's illegal in Calgary to let your pet roam outside your yard.
posted by Mitheral at 11:56 AM on March 9, 2005
We let our cat go outdoors. She enjoys it. My parents have five cats. They let the cats go outdoors. They enjoy it.
Why have a cat and make it a decoration? A cat is happier being able to roam and chase stuff. If the cat wants to go outside, let it. Even if it automatically removes a quarter of the cat's life expectancy (which I don't buy for a second), it's a lot fuller life than 16 years spent solely eating, pooping, sleeping on the top of the sofa and staring at your Hummels.
Indoor-cat keepers say it's in the best interest of the cat, but it's really for their own peace of mind. The cat doesn't give a crap about its mortality. It wants to roam, hunt, and be king of your bushes. It's probably not going to outlive you no matter how many satin pillows you give it.
posted by Mayor Curley at 11:58 AM on March 9, 2005
Why have a cat and make it a decoration? A cat is happier being able to roam and chase stuff. If the cat wants to go outside, let it. Even if it automatically removes a quarter of the cat's life expectancy (which I don't buy for a second), it's a lot fuller life than 16 years spent solely eating, pooping, sleeping on the top of the sofa and staring at your Hummels.
Indoor-cat keepers say it's in the best interest of the cat, but it's really for their own peace of mind. The cat doesn't give a crap about its mortality. It wants to roam, hunt, and be king of your bushes. It's probably not going to outlive you no matter how many satin pillows you give it.
posted by Mayor Curley at 11:58 AM on March 9, 2005
Another Brit here - you'll meet few indoor cat people here, though I know one who is adopting two cats with FIV which must be kept indoors (people are looking askance at her for keeping indoor cats). From my home office which overlooks about 15 back gardens I see approximately ten different cats come and go each day, and they are all incompetent at catching birds (but then they're soft urban cats).
My parents' cat always had free access to the outdoors and was trained not to crap in the house. He lived to be 18. The last few years were spent mostly inside sleeping. He never encountered anything poisonous, unlike one of my pet rabbits, who met his death while digging an escape tunnel from his pen and encountering something nasty underground.
posted by altolinguistic at 12:05 PM on March 9, 2005
My parents' cat always had free access to the outdoors and was trained not to crap in the house. He lived to be 18. The last few years were spent mostly inside sleeping. He never encountered anything poisonous, unlike one of my pet rabbits, who met his death while digging an escape tunnel from his pen and encountering something nasty underground.
posted by altolinguistic at 12:05 PM on March 9, 2005
Ours are indoor-outdoor. While outside, they seem to stay mostly in our yard and our neighbors', and they come up on our screened porch when they need a nap. When they're ready to come in, they get up on the t-bar of the screen door and we can see their little heads through the glass in the kitchen door (it's very cute!). Occasionally one will try to follow me and the pup on our walks if I don't put him inside before we go. I keep my fingers crossed for them every time I let them out, but they are so happy outside, and they're animals, after all.
posted by SashaPT at 12:12 PM on March 9, 2005
posted by SashaPT at 12:12 PM on March 9, 2005
It really is, as handlee says, a cultural thing. When I was living in the UK, a good friend of mine was shocked that I had grown up in a household where all the cats were kept indoors. She made some jaundiced comment, similar to Mayor Curley's, and declared that all cats were intended to be free, free, free!
Ignoring, of course, the very logic behind domestic pets.
But really, I don't think it makes too much difference, as long as you can bear the idea of not knowing if your cat is safe when it's out roaming. Personally, I keep my cat indoors in my apartment in Manhattan, and he seems quite content here.
posted by yellowcandy at 12:12 PM on March 9, 2005
Ignoring, of course, the very logic behind domestic pets.
But really, I don't think it makes too much difference, as long as you can bear the idea of not knowing if your cat is safe when it's out roaming. Personally, I keep my cat indoors in my apartment in Manhattan, and he seems quite content here.
posted by yellowcandy at 12:12 PM on March 9, 2005
I have a cat who remains indoors for all the reasons mentioned above, but I do feel a bit of guilt that she may not be living a full kitty life. Here's what I do:
She has one of those floor-to-ceiling kitty trees that she loves to run up and down for exercise.
She has a halter with a retractable leash which she will actually wear, athough she looks ridiculous (I look equally ridiculous walking her on it). I'll take her out sometimes and she'll go ape shit over birds, but doesn't like wide open spaces.
I play with her often with a mouse on a string.
When it's warm out, I open the windows and let her watch the birds through the screens. She makes little noises.
Overall, I think she lives a reasonably full life...for a cat.
posted by Crushinator at 12:21 PM on March 9, 2005
She has one of those floor-to-ceiling kitty trees that she loves to run up and down for exercise.
She has a halter with a retractable leash which she will actually wear, athough she looks ridiculous (I look equally ridiculous walking her on it). I'll take her out sometimes and she'll go ape shit over birds, but doesn't like wide open spaces.
I play with her often with a mouse on a string.
When it's warm out, I open the windows and let her watch the birds through the screens. She makes little noises.
Overall, I think she lives a reasonably full life...for a cat.
posted by Crushinator at 12:21 PM on March 9, 2005
Indoor:
-We live in a second floor apartment.
-The wife and I are a pair of worryworts.
-There are many lazy birds around here.
-The cats are borderline retarded.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 12:23 PM on March 9, 2005
-We live in a second floor apartment.
-The wife and I are a pair of worryworts.
-There are many lazy birds around here.
-The cats are borderline retarded.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 12:23 PM on March 9, 2005
...one cat alone at home can get very bored during the day...
Please don't anthropomorphize, people. Your cats sleep all day!
Indoor only, here. Wouldn't have it any other way. Mayor, how do you know cats are happier outside? Have you asked them? Course not. So what if it's mainly for my own peace of mind?
posted by acridrabbit at 12:36 PM on March 9, 2005
Please don't anthropomorphize, people. Your cats sleep all day!
Indoor only, here. Wouldn't have it any other way. Mayor, how do you know cats are happier outside? Have you asked them? Course not. So what if it's mainly for my own peace of mind?
posted by acridrabbit at 12:36 PM on March 9, 2005
I want the cats to be outside all the time. Which means that their lives revolve around trying to sneak in. And vice-versa: I've seen indoor cats that seem to spend their whole cat-brain power on trying to get out.
posted by telstar at 12:37 PM on March 9, 2005
posted by telstar at 12:37 PM on March 9, 2005
Ignoring, of course, the very logic behind domestic pets.
What is that logic, exactly? Because they way I see it, you're inferring that pets are either throw pillows that walk or like precious comic books that should never be taken from their plastic bags.
Maybe it's because I grew up without any siblings but with lots of pets, but in my eyes, your pets are friends and the most satisfactory interaction you have with them is unforced. My cat needs me to feed her, take her to the doctor, and open the door for her. That's it. She lives with us either because she likes us as much as we like her or she likes the food. She's not my child even if she depends on me for the aforementioned necessities-- she's an animal that I have elected to share my space with. And I want her to be an animal, not a mute baby.
Your "logic behind domestic pets" is very similar to keeping houseplants (give it nourishment and monitor its condition so that it will continue to live and pretty your house) rather than forming a friendship with another organism.
Mayor, how do you know cats are happier outside?
I assume that if a cat isn't, it would only go outside once or twice and never ask again. So perhaps some cats are happier indoors, but they're excluded from the issue of a person electing to let their cat outside.
posted by Mayor Curley at 12:39 PM on March 9, 2005
What is that logic, exactly? Because they way I see it, you're inferring that pets are either throw pillows that walk or like precious comic books that should never be taken from their plastic bags.
Maybe it's because I grew up without any siblings but with lots of pets, but in my eyes, your pets are friends and the most satisfactory interaction you have with them is unforced. My cat needs me to feed her, take her to the doctor, and open the door for her. That's it. She lives with us either because she likes us as much as we like her or she likes the food. She's not my child even if she depends on me for the aforementioned necessities-- she's an animal that I have elected to share my space with. And I want her to be an animal, not a mute baby.
Your "logic behind domestic pets" is very similar to keeping houseplants (give it nourishment and monitor its condition so that it will continue to live and pretty your house) rather than forming a friendship with another organism.
Mayor, how do you know cats are happier outside?
I assume that if a cat isn't, it would only go outside once or twice and never ask again. So perhaps some cats are happier indoors, but they're excluded from the issue of a person electing to let their cat outside.
posted by Mayor Curley at 12:39 PM on March 9, 2005
All 3 of the cats I've had have been indoor/outdoor. The first two, a little more active and curious than the current one, were hit. The current one is pretty content to be inside, but I let her out when she's in the mood. I have a backyard, and she rarely strays from it. She's not much of a hunter - she mainly just sits out in the grass and has a look around. She loves it. There are lots of strays around, and she's pretty good at jumping ship when she needs to.
As painful as it is to lose them, I'll continue to let them out in the future, unless my gf has her way. And I'm fascinated by the folks here that successfully get their cats on leashes.
posted by hellbient at 12:43 PM on March 9, 2005
As painful as it is to lose them, I'll continue to let them out in the future, unless my gf has her way. And I'm fascinated by the folks here that successfully get their cats on leashes.
posted by hellbient at 12:43 PM on March 9, 2005
Indoor, indoor, indoor for all of the reasons mentioned above. I've had cats poisoned, ran over, disappear and mauled by dogs & other cats.
[ paranoia ]
Remember, people like Dahmer (although there isn't a Dahmer on every corner) start out by torturing small animals.
[ /paranoia ]
The two cats I have now are both happy to wander around a bit on a harness and leash. Plus, it's fun to get double-takes from people.
If I ever have the space I'm building an outdoor cat run with access from the house.
posted by deborah at 12:48 PM on March 9, 2005
[ paranoia ]
Remember, people like Dahmer (although there isn't a Dahmer on every corner) start out by torturing small animals.
[ /paranoia ]
The two cats I have now are both happy to wander around a bit on a harness and leash. Plus, it's fun to get double-takes from people.
If I ever have the space I'm building an outdoor cat run with access from the house.
posted by deborah at 12:48 PM on March 9, 2005
Why have a cat and make it a decoration?
Uh, I've never met an indoor cat that was decoration. Indoor cats are just as cat-like and fun and happy as outdoor cats.
posted by agregoli at 12:52 PM on March 9, 2005
Uh, I've never met an indoor cat that was decoration. Indoor cats are just as cat-like and fun and happy as outdoor cats.
posted by agregoli at 12:52 PM on March 9, 2005
It will depend very highly on your environment and how safe kitty will be.
My cats are purely indoor pets - a combination of living in an apartment-like condo complex and total lack of trust in the neighbors. They aren't bad people per se, but the turnover rate is very high so you never know folks' attitudes. My cats will never go outside.
My mom lives in a small neighborhood where everyone has 1 acre plots and most folks know each other. Still, the house borders a busy highway & I see roadkill each time I visit. Kitty #1 is allowed outside daily for supervised walkies (no leash needed). Kitty #2 isn't old enough to learn this rule yet, but will have the same access in time. Both are allowed to play unsupervised on the screened porch.
My grandfather lives on a sprawling multi-acre horse farm where all the neighbors know each other and look out for each others' roaming pets (dogs and cats). His barn cats are working animals and keep the rodent population down, especially in the stables. Due to the low human population, there are sometimes packs of feral dogs, rabid raccoons, snakes, etc. Since all the pets are working animals, this is just one of the hazards they have to live with. My grandad's cats fare much poorer than his dogs in terms of life expectancy. Probably because the dogs are trained to come home to be crated each night, but the cats are left to their own devices.
posted by Sangre Azul at 12:52 PM on March 9, 2005
My cats are purely indoor pets - a combination of living in an apartment-like condo complex and total lack of trust in the neighbors. They aren't bad people per se, but the turnover rate is very high so you never know folks' attitudes. My cats will never go outside.
My mom lives in a small neighborhood where everyone has 1 acre plots and most folks know each other. Still, the house borders a busy highway & I see roadkill each time I visit. Kitty #1 is allowed outside daily for supervised walkies (no leash needed). Kitty #2 isn't old enough to learn this rule yet, but will have the same access in time. Both are allowed to play unsupervised on the screened porch.
My grandfather lives on a sprawling multi-acre horse farm where all the neighbors know each other and look out for each others' roaming pets (dogs and cats). His barn cats are working animals and keep the rodent population down, especially in the stables. Due to the low human population, there are sometimes packs of feral dogs, rabid raccoons, snakes, etc. Since all the pets are working animals, this is just one of the hazards they have to live with. My grandad's cats fare much poorer than his dogs in terms of life expectancy. Probably because the dogs are trained to come home to be crated each night, but the cats are left to their own devices.
posted by Sangre Azul at 12:52 PM on March 9, 2005
Indoor only. I want my cats to be healthier, not be exposed to as many fleas or feline leukemia and not risk show downs with dogs or cars. I also don't want my cats reducing the number of birds around our house or pooping in anyone's gardens.
posted by onhazier at 12:52 PM on March 9, 2005
posted by onhazier at 12:52 PM on March 9, 2005
Our cat is an adopted stray. We never let him out at our old house (busy street) but we have recently started letting him out for a couple of hours a day. He doesn't go much beyond the little square of yard we share with our neighbors, but seems to tire himself out which makes him sleep more at night. He's scared of cars, dogs, and other cats, and generally asks to be let in if he sees one.
One note on the "Cats will kill all the birds" line of reasoning: the songbirds studies of course cannot distinguish between birds killed by feral cats versus domestic cats. Well-fed domestic cats do not kill that many birds.
posted by hydropsyche at 12:56 PM on March 9, 2005
One note on the "Cats will kill all the birds" line of reasoning: the songbirds studies of course cannot distinguish between birds killed by feral cats versus domestic cats. Well-fed domestic cats do not kill that many birds.
posted by hydropsyche at 12:56 PM on March 9, 2005
So many indoors only?
It is true that, in general, cats kept indoors live longer than those that have access to the outside.
However, I've had indoor cats that died young, and I've had outdoor cats that lived more than fifteen years. I believe that much of it depends on where you live, and how you treat your animals.
I once lived in a small trailer house in the middle of the country. The road was little-trafficked, though cars tended to hurtle past at alarming speeds. Cats here were outdoor only. We lost some to road accidents, but those that learned to avoid the road seemed nigh eternal.
When we moved into town, we lived on a street with a lot of slow traffic. This scared me more than the country road. My cats were kept indoors for years, but they hated it. Hated it. Eventually, we acquiesced and allowed them moderate outdoor time. We had one fatality: Satchel loved to chase other cats, and once while doing so during rush hour, he dashed beneath the tires of a passing car.
After a decade in that house, we recently moved to another house, a house I consider the perfect cat house. It's on a large (nearly full acre) lot in an old, established urban area in Portland. We have lots of vegetation. The road is low-traffic and, in general, people drive slowly.
The main problem is that there are nearly a dozen neighborhood cats that come a-visiting, a couple of which are not fixed, and that causes woe. Still, the cats love this new place, and their happiness is readily apparent. When we don't let them outside, they're complete assholes. When we do let them outside, they're sweet as can be. Our cats' favorite, though, is when we go outside with them. They love nothing more than to help us prune the roses, or feed the birds, or edge the lawn.
To re-iterate: I don't think there's one best answer. Yes, cats that live solely indoors do live longer. From my experience, they're also generally less happy than those allowed outdoors at least a little. Only you can decide whether or not it makes sense to allow your cat time outside.
posted by jdroth at 12:57 PM on March 9, 2005
It is true that, in general, cats kept indoors live longer than those that have access to the outside.
However, I've had indoor cats that died young, and I've had outdoor cats that lived more than fifteen years. I believe that much of it depends on where you live, and how you treat your animals.
I once lived in a small trailer house in the middle of the country. The road was little-trafficked, though cars tended to hurtle past at alarming speeds. Cats here were outdoor only. We lost some to road accidents, but those that learned to avoid the road seemed nigh eternal.
When we moved into town, we lived on a street with a lot of slow traffic. This scared me more than the country road. My cats were kept indoors for years, but they hated it. Hated it. Eventually, we acquiesced and allowed them moderate outdoor time. We had one fatality: Satchel loved to chase other cats, and once while doing so during rush hour, he dashed beneath the tires of a passing car.
After a decade in that house, we recently moved to another house, a house I consider the perfect cat house. It's on a large (nearly full acre) lot in an old, established urban area in Portland. We have lots of vegetation. The road is low-traffic and, in general, people drive slowly.
The main problem is that there are nearly a dozen neighborhood cats that come a-visiting, a couple of which are not fixed, and that causes woe. Still, the cats love this new place, and their happiness is readily apparent. When we don't let them outside, they're complete assholes. When we do let them outside, they're sweet as can be. Our cats' favorite, though, is when we go outside with them. They love nothing more than to help us prune the roses, or feed the birds, or edge the lawn.
To re-iterate: I don't think there's one best answer. Yes, cats that live solely indoors do live longer. From my experience, they're also generally less happy than those allowed outdoors at least a little. Only you can decide whether or not it makes sense to allow your cat time outside.
posted by jdroth at 12:57 PM on March 9, 2005
Why have a cat and make it a decoration? A cat is happier being able to roam and chase stuff.
If for no other reason, then because your neighbors are probably happier without your cat roaming onto their land and chasing stuff on their land.
Pets belong under human control. If they're not under human control, they're wild or feral, and that makes them vermin when they do things people don't like.
Just as I shouldn't have to put up with your feces in my yard, or your child's feces, or your dog's or snake's or bird's or fish's feces, I shouldn't have to put up with your cat using my yard as its litterbox, crapping left and right and attracting honest strays by pissing all over everything.
Similarly, if it's my yard, it ought to be up to me, not you and your cat, whether it's a wee bird sanctuary or an avian Chelmno.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:59 PM on March 9, 2005
If for no other reason, then because your neighbors are probably happier without your cat roaming onto their land and chasing stuff on their land.
Pets belong under human control. If they're not under human control, they're wild or feral, and that makes them vermin when they do things people don't like.
Just as I shouldn't have to put up with your feces in my yard, or your child's feces, or your dog's or snake's or bird's or fish's feces, I shouldn't have to put up with your cat using my yard as its litterbox, crapping left and right and attracting honest strays by pissing all over everything.
Similarly, if it's my yard, it ought to be up to me, not you and your cat, whether it's a wee bird sanctuary or an avian Chelmno.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:59 PM on March 9, 2005
Well-fed domestic cats do not kill that many birds.
I've had personal experience of a number of well-fed (hell, two are nearly obese) cats that kill frequently (up to a few critters a day) for the fun of it, not food.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 12:59 PM on March 9, 2005
I've had personal experience of a number of well-fed (hell, two are nearly obese) cats that kill frequently (up to a few critters a day) for the fun of it, not food.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 12:59 PM on March 9, 2005
Well-fed domestic cats do not kill that many birds.
Even if that's true, they for damn sure kill more birds than indoor cats do.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:03 PM on March 9, 2005
Even if that's true, they for damn sure kill more birds than indoor cats do.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:03 PM on March 9, 2005
by keeping cats indoors you're responsible for the deaths of millions of fleas a year. i'm sure that must outweight a few birds.
posted by andrew cooke at 1:03 PM on March 9, 2005
posted by andrew cooke at 1:03 PM on March 9, 2005
My cats aren't decoration. They don't want to go outside. They never try to go outside. They have one another, and us, and food and toys, and they're happy as pigs in mud. If your cat has always gone out, it will want to go out. If they do not go out, they will not want to go out. I feel responsible for them and don't want them getting eaten by dogs, hit by cars, poisened by assholes, harassed by neighborhood children, otherwise molested by freaks, getting FIV or Leukemia, fleas, worms, and other nasties. It's a luxury you don't have with human kids, and I enjoy it. I know my babies are safe. Yes, it's for me. So what ?
posted by Medieval Maven at 1:24 PM on March 9, 2005
posted by Medieval Maven at 1:24 PM on March 9, 2005
I'm sure you don't need more stories, but just in case...I had cats as a kid, and they were only allowed outside. The first one was eaten by our neighbor's dogs after 6 weeks. The second one had feline leukemia and had to be put to sleep after a year. The third one was torn apart by raccoons at a young age, and the fourth one--perhaps having heard about his predecessors throught the underground feline press--ran away. Alas, no more pets after that.
posted by equipoise at 1:27 PM on March 9, 2005
posted by equipoise at 1:27 PM on March 9, 2005
ROU_Xenophobe's feelings probably point to the best answer for you -- if you think your new home will be safe enough for kitty to roam, check with the neighbors and poll their attitudes.
In my grandad's case, it's an assumed "rule" that everyone looks after each others' pets. In my mom's case, when she was taming the two strays that eventually became her mostly-indoor cats, she made it a point to ask all the neighbors to watch out for the kitties. A good thing when one was found to have a litter in the neighbor's bushes. The folks next door helped keep an eye out for hawks.
Also check your area's leash/roaming laws - some actually do apply to cats, nevermind if you think that's "logical" or not.
Personally, unless I need mousers, my cats will always stay indoors with access to a screened porch. I grew up with enough working animals to know they can survive and be happy outside, but in my mind, the risks are too high and I don't find it vital to their well-being.
If you want to try the harness/leash thing, get one especially made for cats and slowly introduce it. It could take weeks. Start while the cat is still indoors. Associate wearing the harness with a treat, or clicker train the cat. There are loads of online resources -- look for "leash train" and "cat". Some cats, though, will never permit it.
My mom pulled off no-leash walkies by slowly introducing the cat to the porch. She'd start by keeping the cat in her arms, or sit down with kitty in her lap. Then gradually, kitty could explore the immediate area. This area expanded to encompass the entire wrap-around porch.
My mom also used both positive/negative reinforcement - part treats, sometimes the water gun. This has paid off, since the cat is now deaf and can not be verbally admonished if she's done something wrong. But, since she was trained, she doesn't stray.
posted by Sangre Azul at 1:47 PM on March 9, 2005
In my grandad's case, it's an assumed "rule" that everyone looks after each others' pets. In my mom's case, when she was taming the two strays that eventually became her mostly-indoor cats, she made it a point to ask all the neighbors to watch out for the kitties. A good thing when one was found to have a litter in the neighbor's bushes. The folks next door helped keep an eye out for hawks.
Also check your area's leash/roaming laws - some actually do apply to cats, nevermind if you think that's "logical" or not.
Personally, unless I need mousers, my cats will always stay indoors with access to a screened porch. I grew up with enough working animals to know they can survive and be happy outside, but in my mind, the risks are too high and I don't find it vital to their well-being.
If you want to try the harness/leash thing, get one especially made for cats and slowly introduce it. It could take weeks. Start while the cat is still indoors. Associate wearing the harness with a treat, or clicker train the cat. There are loads of online resources -- look for "leash train" and "cat". Some cats, though, will never permit it.
My mom pulled off no-leash walkies by slowly introducing the cat to the porch. She'd start by keeping the cat in her arms, or sit down with kitty in her lap. Then gradually, kitty could explore the immediate area. This area expanded to encompass the entire wrap-around porch.
My mom also used both positive/negative reinforcement - part treats, sometimes the water gun. This has paid off, since the cat is now deaf and can not be verbally admonished if she's done something wrong. But, since she was trained, she doesn't stray.
posted by Sangre Azul at 1:47 PM on March 9, 2005
The Oregon Humane society quotes figures that the average age of indoor only cats is 18 and outdoor cats have an average of 3.
I never quite believed it, and they don't say where they got the number from, but they quote it all over their shelter.
posted by mathowie at 2:19 PM on March 9, 2005
I never quite believed it, and they don't say where they got the number from, but they quote it all over their shelter.
posted by mathowie at 2:19 PM on March 9, 2005
I am an indoor/outdoor cat person, myself, with certain considerations. My cat spent our first 4 years together indoors, but I lived on a very busy street. Now, I have a well fenced yard far away from roads, and I let her go out. She loves going outside. There is cement and dirt to roll on out there, not to mention a tree that she can scratch and climb. True, there are some strays, and my cat occasionally finds her way over the fence, but overall I think it's better to let her have the time outside. While she never seemed to mind living inside too much, it made me feel like a jailer. Before I moved to my new place, I was consulting with a landscaper friend of mine about building an indoor/outdoor habitat for her that would let her get outside without exposing her to all the dangers out there. IMO living is risky business whether for cats or people. There are no guarantees on longevity...so I am willing to gamble to indulge my cat's enjoyment of the yard.
posted by omphale27 at 2:25 PM on March 9, 2005
posted by omphale27 at 2:25 PM on March 9, 2005
Indoor-cat keepers say it's in the best interest of the cat, but it's really for their own peace of mind. The cat doesn't give a crap about its mortality. It wants to roam, hunt, and be king of your bushes. It's probably not going to outlive you no matter how many satin pillows you give it.
Would you advocate for or against veterinary intervention when the cat gets worms and if the cat gets injured? Do you think it's okay to feed the cat, or do you just assume that it'll get enough food "naturally?" Look, my cat didn't get to my house with the free food and the late-afternoon sunbeam by accident -- I put her there, and therefore I'm responsible for her health and well-being, and therefore I get to make some decisions about her habitat. Most kids would be "happier" playing outside whenever they want too, but I still think they should come inside for dinner, homework, baths, bed, etc.
posted by desuetude at 2:38 PM on March 9, 2005
Would you advocate for or against veterinary intervention when the cat gets worms and if the cat gets injured? Do you think it's okay to feed the cat, or do you just assume that it'll get enough food "naturally?" Look, my cat didn't get to my house with the free food and the late-afternoon sunbeam by accident -- I put her there, and therefore I'm responsible for her health and well-being, and therefore I get to make some decisions about her habitat. Most kids would be "happier" playing outside whenever they want too, but I still think they should come inside for dinner, homework, baths, bed, etc.
posted by desuetude at 2:38 PM on March 9, 2005
Would you advocate for or against veterinary intervention when the cat gets worms and if the cat gets injured?
Would you advocate finding a passage you take exception to, scrolling down to the end of the page, making a comment and forcing your target to repeat him/herself? (see my second comment)
mathowie-- I've seen that statistic used quite a bit and have even seen it cited in AskMe previously (konolia used it months ago). It's suspiciously similar to the life expectancy of a feral cat, so I assume they mean "wholly outdoors."
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:58 PM on March 9, 2005
Would you advocate finding a passage you take exception to, scrolling down to the end of the page, making a comment and forcing your target to repeat him/herself? (see my second comment)
mathowie-- I've seen that statistic used quite a bit and have even seen it cited in AskMe previously (konolia used it months ago). It's suspiciously similar to the life expectancy of a feral cat, so I assume they mean "wholly outdoors."
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:58 PM on March 9, 2005
Indoor/outdoor cats. To be perfectly honest however, I have a serious aversion to the whole cat box thing. I really, really can't deal with it. So our 5 cats come in and go out as they please.
posted by Lynsey at 3:42 PM on March 9, 2005
posted by Lynsey at 3:42 PM on March 9, 2005
We used to let our cats out. Then one got badly clawed up, presumably by another cat, and the x-rays also showed that someone (at some point) had shot him with a pellet gun (the pellet is still inside; no reason to operate just to remove it).
Once cats get used to going outside, it's tough to keep them in. Our compromise is a fenced back yard that the two cats have access to. The top of fence is protected with the Cat Fence-In system, and although it looks a bit Stalag-17ish, it does work.
I think that cats are owed a certain amount of stimulation, whether bird-watching from an indoor perch or playing with humans or another cat, or checking out their territory periodically. It's possible to have that with a purely indoor cat; easier with an outdoor one (but, as many have noted, with significant other drawbacks).
posted by WestCoaster at 3:48 PM on March 9, 2005
Once cats get used to going outside, it's tough to keep them in. Our compromise is a fenced back yard that the two cats have access to. The top of fence is protected with the Cat Fence-In system, and although it looks a bit Stalag-17ish, it does work.
I think that cats are owed a certain amount of stimulation, whether bird-watching from an indoor perch or playing with humans or another cat, or checking out their territory periodically. It's possible to have that with a purely indoor cat; easier with an outdoor one (but, as many have noted, with significant other drawbacks).
posted by WestCoaster at 3:48 PM on March 9, 2005
I think cats like what they're used to.
I adopted a friend's indoor-outdoor cat when I was in college and tried to turn him into an indoor-only kitty. He clearly missed the great outdoors and would escape every chance he got, though he'd always be back within a few hours.
Now I'm living with two kitties raised indoors since they were very small. On a recent unusually nice day I left the front door open. The cats sat right on the door frame, tensely bristling at the world beyond. Neither dared step beyond the front door, and when I pushed one onto the door step he freaked out, ran inside and hit under the couch until I had shut the door.
Why do I have indoor kitties? We had six cats when I was growing up. One was eaten by dogs, five were hit by cars and one just disappeared. The oldest lived to be 14 before she died on the side of the road.
If we'd tried to turn our outdoor cats into inside cats, I'm sure they'd have rebelled. But why let them become outdoor cats in the first place?
posted by croutonsupafreak at 3:51 PM on March 9, 2005
I adopted a friend's indoor-outdoor cat when I was in college and tried to turn him into an indoor-only kitty. He clearly missed the great outdoors and would escape every chance he got, though he'd always be back within a few hours.
Now I'm living with two kitties raised indoors since they were very small. On a recent unusually nice day I left the front door open. The cats sat right on the door frame, tensely bristling at the world beyond. Neither dared step beyond the front door, and when I pushed one onto the door step he freaked out, ran inside and hit under the couch until I had shut the door.
Why do I have indoor kitties? We had six cats when I was growing up. One was eaten by dogs, five were hit by cars and one just disappeared. The oldest lived to be 14 before she died on the side of the road.
If we'd tried to turn our outdoor cats into inside cats, I'm sure they'd have rebelled. But why let them become outdoor cats in the first place?
posted by croutonsupafreak at 3:51 PM on March 9, 2005
We live on a couple of acres in the semi-boonies, and we have an EMCF (electromagnetic catflap) that lets the cat in and out. We did lose one to coyotes, I think, but now we have a dog (all outside, all the time) so I'm not too worried about that anymore. No more scooping cat turds for me! Although the dog seems fond of them, bleagh...
The cat's not too bad on the local wildlife, but she drags in frogs, geckoes and crawfish from time to time. No birds though.
posted by atchafalaya at 5:18 PM on March 9, 2005
The cat's not too bad on the local wildlife, but she drags in frogs, geckoes and crawfish from time to time. No birds though.
posted by atchafalaya at 5:18 PM on March 9, 2005
Curley,
The logic is simply that at some level, the relationship between a cat owner and a cat is one of possession and control. There is simply no other way, short of putting out food and waiting for the wild cats to come visit, to have pets. They are not free and cannot be completely free and would likely die in the wild if they were, so to argue that letting them outdoors is equivalent to complete liberation is to deny that control.
If you read what I said, I never even came close to implying that cats are decorative objects. Not even if you squint and look at the screen upside-down.
Keeping a cat indoors does not foreclose the possibilities of positive, unforced interactions with the cat. I think most people who've met a few indoor cats would say that they've met stand-offish ones and friendly ones; nobody is holding them down and forcing them to be sociable with people. Leaping from "can't go outside" to "throw pillows" involves some pretty radical mental gymnastics. But my hunch is that you're really much more concerned with the larger ethics of keeping pets. I'd be interested in hearing how you justify doing it yourself.
posted by yellowcandy at 5:28 PM on March 9, 2005
The logic is simply that at some level, the relationship between a cat owner and a cat is one of possession and control. There is simply no other way, short of putting out food and waiting for the wild cats to come visit, to have pets. They are not free and cannot be completely free and would likely die in the wild if they were, so to argue that letting them outdoors is equivalent to complete liberation is to deny that control.
If you read what I said, I never even came close to implying that cats are decorative objects. Not even if you squint and look at the screen upside-down.
Keeping a cat indoors does not foreclose the possibilities of positive, unforced interactions with the cat. I think most people who've met a few indoor cats would say that they've met stand-offish ones and friendly ones; nobody is holding them down and forcing them to be sociable with people. Leaping from "can't go outside" to "throw pillows" involves some pretty radical mental gymnastics. But my hunch is that you're really much more concerned with the larger ethics of keeping pets. I'd be interested in hearing how you justify doing it yourself.
posted by yellowcandy at 5:28 PM on March 9, 2005
Look, my cat didn't get to my house with the free food and the late-afternoon sunbeam by accident
That is pretty much how having outdoor cats works, though. They show up one day at your house where the free food is and if you like 'em enough you try to get them to stick around. Those of us that are used to that sort of thing don't see how we're somehow being cruel by not seizing the creature and locking it inside. What if you don't really have room for another cat, but you'd just as well feed the new one, maybe take it to the vet, see that he hangs around? Must you either completely possess a creature or shun it entirely?
posted by furiousthought at 5:48 PM on March 9, 2005
That is pretty much how having outdoor cats works, though. They show up one day at your house where the free food is and if you like 'em enough you try to get them to stick around. Those of us that are used to that sort of thing don't see how we're somehow being cruel by not seizing the creature and locking it inside. What if you don't really have room for another cat, but you'd just as well feed the new one, maybe take it to the vet, see that he hangs around? Must you either completely possess a creature or shun it entirely?
posted by furiousthought at 5:48 PM on March 9, 2005
All our cats have been indoor/outdoor. It depends on where you're moving to. If you're by a highway or somewhere that's infested with coyotes, evil neighbors, or terrible, man-eating dogs then the cat should be indoor. If it's a suburb or relatively wooded neighborhood it should be all right, since many people have cats, the yards are big enough that it takes a real dick to get possessive about cats on their lawns, and if people keep their dogs outside they put up fences.
It also depends on your cat. If it's smart, a hunter, has a fairly confident nature, it should be able to deal with stuff outside pretty well. But if it's gentle, stupid, and lazy and you've never seen it so much chase a bug, indoors might be a better idea. Some of this stuff is dependent on how you raise the cat, though. We've taken our cats outside since they were kittens--when they're little they'll stick to you, and by the time they're big enough to be on their own they know the area around our house. If you decide to make your cat outdoor, keep it inside for a few weeks after you move and then give it supervised introductions to the outdoors.
Outdoor behavior also depends on the cat. We had a cat that disappeared for weeks a couple of times, days more often, but mostly stayed around the house. She also seemed to think it was her duty to feed us. Another one likes to wander around the perimeter, roll on the grass, but nothing more than that. If your relationship with your cat is good it'll come back more often, but there's no guarantee it'll be a hunter-killer-type or a lazy-ass-type. Oh, and having other outdoor cats in the house also aids the acclimation of the new outdoor cat.
So, uh, ask your cat.
(My cats will always be at least semi-outdoor if conditions are safe--keeps them healthier, they seem happier, and if they ever accidentally get out I won't have to worry as much.)
posted by Anonymous at 6:37 PM on March 9, 2005
It also depends on your cat. If it's smart, a hunter, has a fairly confident nature, it should be able to deal with stuff outside pretty well. But if it's gentle, stupid, and lazy and you've never seen it so much chase a bug, indoors might be a better idea. Some of this stuff is dependent on how you raise the cat, though. We've taken our cats outside since they were kittens--when they're little they'll stick to you, and by the time they're big enough to be on their own they know the area around our house. If you decide to make your cat outdoor, keep it inside for a few weeks after you move and then give it supervised introductions to the outdoors.
Outdoor behavior also depends on the cat. We had a cat that disappeared for weeks a couple of times, days more often, but mostly stayed around the house. She also seemed to think it was her duty to feed us. Another one likes to wander around the perimeter, roll on the grass, but nothing more than that. If your relationship with your cat is good it'll come back more often, but there's no guarantee it'll be a hunter-killer-type or a lazy-ass-type. Oh, and having other outdoor cats in the house also aids the acclimation of the new outdoor cat.
So, uh, ask your cat.
(My cats will always be at least semi-outdoor if conditions are safe--keeps them healthier, they seem happier, and if they ever accidentally get out I won't have to worry as much.)
posted by Anonymous at 6:37 PM on March 9, 2005
I have always felt a cat of mine has a right to be a cat. That is something I choose to grant. That means they get to go outside and do what cats like to do. I don't fault them for hunting, cats do that. It is my joy that my cat chooses to come home, and a confirmation that I belong to the cat.
However, it really depends on your environment. In the UK, for example, this works great. People are not assholes towards cats. In some places, people are more dog oriented, and believe all manner of bad things about cats, and believe it reasonable to freak out over a dry cat turd in their petunias. Some places have laws (laws!) against roaming cats. (hell, some places have laws against gay sex, or women showing their faces). Other places have dangerous beasts (other than the 2-legged kind).
Cats kept indoors become afraid of the outdoors. They might sneak past but seldom get very far as they become overwhelmed by the open, or the wind, or noise, or whatever. I would never push a grown indoor cat to become an outdoor cat. Cats used to the outdoors are really not happy staying indoors, and probably don't understand the difference between, say, Manhattan and suburban Cleveland. They might appreciate the difference between 7th floor windows and ground floor (or maybe not).
When I lived in rural Wisconsin, we had a local law against roaming cats. The idiots believed the crap about songbirds. Bullocks! My outdoor cats did a lot of hunting. But the place was overrun by rodents, there was no need to harass birds. These idiots crapped their pants over cat turds in their gardens. Apparently they preferred sharing their vegetables with the rodents. Very weird people, they were quite forgiving if your dog got loose and killed their poultry, while having no respect for a proper rodent-control officer (ie, cat). Country folk with no farming background! (miners and lumberjacks) I enjoyed my revenge when a stray dog we got turned out to be a killer, and seriously mauled a couple of their worthless ornamental mutts that dared stray too near (a sweetheart to people, of course).
So, in or out? It depends, of course. Clearly I consider outdoors a reasonable option. But if fleas abound, that is of itself a good reason to raise an indoor cat. Never had a problem 'til sometime after the mid 80's.
posted by Goofyy at 9:02 PM on March 9, 2005
However, it really depends on your environment. In the UK, for example, this works great. People are not assholes towards cats. In some places, people are more dog oriented, and believe all manner of bad things about cats, and believe it reasonable to freak out over a dry cat turd in their petunias. Some places have laws (laws!) against roaming cats. (hell, some places have laws against gay sex, or women showing their faces). Other places have dangerous beasts (other than the 2-legged kind).
Cats kept indoors become afraid of the outdoors. They might sneak past but seldom get very far as they become overwhelmed by the open, or the wind, or noise, or whatever. I would never push a grown indoor cat to become an outdoor cat. Cats used to the outdoors are really not happy staying indoors, and probably don't understand the difference between, say, Manhattan and suburban Cleveland. They might appreciate the difference between 7th floor windows and ground floor (or maybe not).
When I lived in rural Wisconsin, we had a local law against roaming cats. The idiots believed the crap about songbirds. Bullocks! My outdoor cats did a lot of hunting. But the place was overrun by rodents, there was no need to harass birds. These idiots crapped their pants over cat turds in their gardens. Apparently they preferred sharing their vegetables with the rodents. Very weird people, they were quite forgiving if your dog got loose and killed their poultry, while having no respect for a proper rodent-control officer (ie, cat). Country folk with no farming background! (miners and lumberjacks) I enjoyed my revenge when a stray dog we got turned out to be a killer, and seriously mauled a couple of their worthless ornamental mutts that dared stray too near (a sweetheart to people, of course).
So, in or out? It depends, of course. Clearly I consider outdoors a reasonable option. But if fleas abound, that is of itself a good reason to raise an indoor cat. Never had a problem 'til sometime after the mid 80's.
posted by Goofyy at 9:02 PM on March 9, 2005
I just read that link about hunters in Wisconsin wanting to shoot roaming cats. Okay, when I can shoot roaming hunters in the process of tresspass. Friend of mine always has problems with hunters on her farm. Note they seem only to want to shoot the cats, not roaming dogs, who may also hurt children.
posted by Goofyy at 9:09 PM on March 9, 2005
posted by Goofyy at 9:09 PM on March 9, 2005
I have always felt a cat of mine has a right to be a cat.
Well, fine, but that feeling can be wrong or unjustified, no matter how strongly you feel it. You also have a responsibility to control your cat and keep it from interfering with other people's lives and properties.
believe it reasonable to freak out over a dry cat turd in their petunias
Why is it unreasonable to object to other people's pets using my yard as a toilet?
I can accept it from wild animals, who aren't under anyone's control and can be killed if they're being pests. But why should I let you use my yard as your litterbox if I don't want to?
Why should *you* get to decide whether or not *my* yard is a cat toilet or not?
Some places have laws (laws!) against roaming cats.
Presumably in order to limit (limit!) the roaming of cats.
But the place was overrun by rodents, there was no need to harass birds.
And cats, being the consummate ecologists that they are, then sat down and rationally decided to chase and kill only rodents while leaving birds alone. Uh-huh.
These idiots crapped their pants over cat turds in their gardens.
Again, why should people not object to your cat using their yard as the toilet? Let your cat crap in your house, where nobody but you has to deal with it.
It's one thing to deal with wild animals, but your cat is under your control. You are choosing to let it crap in my yard, and that's a choice I might well resent.
I enjoyed my revenge when a stray dog we got turned out to be a killer, and seriously mauled a couple of their worthless ornamental mutts that dared stray too near
Truly, you are a prince among neighbors.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:04 PM on March 9, 2005
Well, fine, but that feeling can be wrong or unjustified, no matter how strongly you feel it. You also have a responsibility to control your cat and keep it from interfering with other people's lives and properties.
believe it reasonable to freak out over a dry cat turd in their petunias
Why is it unreasonable to object to other people's pets using my yard as a toilet?
I can accept it from wild animals, who aren't under anyone's control and can be killed if they're being pests. But why should I let you use my yard as your litterbox if I don't want to?
Why should *you* get to decide whether or not *my* yard is a cat toilet or not?
Some places have laws (laws!) against roaming cats.
Presumably in order to limit (limit!) the roaming of cats.
But the place was overrun by rodents, there was no need to harass birds.
And cats, being the consummate ecologists that they are, then sat down and rationally decided to chase and kill only rodents while leaving birds alone. Uh-huh.
These idiots crapped their pants over cat turds in their gardens.
Again, why should people not object to your cat using their yard as the toilet? Let your cat crap in your house, where nobody but you has to deal with it.
It's one thing to deal with wild animals, but your cat is under your control. You are choosing to let it crap in my yard, and that's a choice I might well resent.
I enjoyed my revenge when a stray dog we got turned out to be a killer, and seriously mauled a couple of their worthless ornamental mutts that dared stray too near
Truly, you are a prince among neighbors.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:04 PM on March 9, 2005
As far as that Wisconsin thing goes, shooting them seems a bit much -- if nothing else, there are so many of them that you're bound to start hitting people, cars, houses, etc when you miss the cat, and plugging them with a .22 probably is not the most humane way to get them.
But I've long thought that we should simply capture and humanely euthanize stray or roaming dogs and cats until their numbers approach zero. I suppose we could try to sterilize-and-release them, but that seems more work than just killing them.
I'd rather have more little wee mousies and chipmunks to feed hawks and owls and foxes and bobcats and lynx, and more hawks and owls and foxes and bobcats and lynx eating the wee mousies and chipmunks, than have feral domestic animals wandering around eating the native wildlife.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:16 PM on March 9, 2005
But I've long thought that we should simply capture and humanely euthanize stray or roaming dogs and cats until their numbers approach zero. I suppose we could try to sterilize-and-release them, but that seems more work than just killing them.
I'd rather have more little wee mousies and chipmunks to feed hawks and owls and foxes and bobcats and lynx, and more hawks and owls and foxes and bobcats and lynx eating the wee mousies and chipmunks, than have feral domestic animals wandering around eating the native wildlife.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:16 PM on March 9, 2005
My twelve-year-old cat has been indoor/outdoor her whole life (we got her at nine months; she was apparently a stray or abandoned before that). She's only had fleas once, never any scary outdoor-illnesses, seems happy to roam around the neighborhood yards without crossing any large roads, and never stays gone for more than a couple hours. She's an atrocious hunter, too (scared of squirrels!), so no guilt about damaging songbird populations. The one problem we've had is that she's a fighter--every year or two there's a visit to the vet to get her patched up. We have been increasingly careful: she had a very nasty run-in with a stray dog a few years ago, several large, aggressive cats have moved in, and my cat is starting to slow down. These days we only let her out when we're home and can hear her if she gets into trouble.
She adores being outside. Stalks bugs, rolls around in the dirt, hides in the flowerbed, races all over the yard, lies in the sunshine. She goes bonkers if it's rainy or we won't let her out--I do get nervous about her being outside, but at this point I think it's worth the risk for the enjoyment she gets out of it.
posted by hippugeek at 10:22 PM on March 9, 2005
She adores being outside. Stalks bugs, rolls around in the dirt, hides in the flowerbed, races all over the yard, lies in the sunshine. She goes bonkers if it's rainy or we won't let her out--I do get nervous about her being outside, but at this point I think it's worth the risk for the enjoyment she gets out of it.
posted by hippugeek at 10:22 PM on March 9, 2005
furiousthought - that is almost exactly how I came across one of my cats. She just came in through the cat-flap one day. I spent about a month trying to chase her off ("I'm not going to let you eat all the other cat's food!") but having got home one day to find all three asleep on the sofa in a pile, I decided she could stay. She's been kept indoors for a total of two weeks in her entire time with us, and that was after neutering whilst the stitches healed. The rest of the time, she just comes and goes as she pleases.
And mathowie - I sure am glad I don't live anywhere near Oregon! Cat life expectancy there seems a bit rubbish. Of the cats of me and my immediate friends (which are all come-and-go-as-you-please cats), one of mine sadly died last week at 5, and all of the others are older and going strong. Including several 17 year-old sedate matronly cats whose outdoors activity consists of occasional leisurely strolls around the lawn.
posted by handee at 2:32 AM on March 10, 2005
And mathowie - I sure am glad I don't live anywhere near Oregon! Cat life expectancy there seems a bit rubbish. Of the cats of me and my immediate friends (which are all come-and-go-as-you-please cats), one of mine sadly died last week at 5, and all of the others are older and going strong. Including several 17 year-old sedate matronly cats whose outdoors activity consists of occasional leisurely strolls around the lawn.
posted by handee at 2:32 AM on March 10, 2005
I received two stray kittens from some friends (the kittens were brother and sister.) I live in a ground floor apartment in the country on a secondary road. My apartment is small, and I couldn't spend as much time with my cats as I would like, so I decided to let them go outside. After one year the girl got killed by a car. I was not prepared for this. But I believe that my cats are happier when they can go outside. Sure, their lives may be shorter, but they will be fuller. And yes, it is my responsibility to keep them safe, but if that's the case, why don't parents just keep their kids inside?
posted by boymilo at 10:10 AM on March 10, 2005
posted by boymilo at 10:10 AM on March 10, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
Plus, I always fear she'll never come back if she's outside (although every time she has gotten out, she's returned).
Sometimes I feel like I'm cheating her of a life on the outside, but anytime I've kept the door open or encouraged her to go outside exploring, she doesn't. She likes it inside, where its cool in the summer and warm in the winter.
posted by nitsuj at 10:33 AM on March 9, 2005