Is having D&D stuff on my website bad for my image?
July 4, 2010 6:46 AM Subscribe
I'm redesigning my personal website, and trying to decide whether I should let the world know whether I play Dungeons & Dragons, or if that would lead to negative judgments that would hurt me professionally. Give me some feedback; my thought process inside.
I'm very open about my online identity, with a website that is myrealname.com, a Facebook profile open to the entire world, etc. The idea is that I would like to have a nice online presence that presents me in a good light and makes me easily Googleable. I'm currently redesigning my website, and taking the opportunity to reorganize the content.
Earlier this year I had on there a bunch of Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) stuff, e.g. monsters I've created, guides for new players, and other resources. (One such resource is actually the highest source of hits for my website, giving roughly 300 per week, but those are almost entirely through direct links from various D&D web forums). I also included it as a hobby under "About Me," and so on. But one or two friends said "woah, you have D&D stuff on your website? I wouldn't put that out in public"; I also link to my website from my Steam profile, and one of the guys in the in-game chat started commenting that he'd lost all respect for me once he saw that I played D&D. So clearly there's at least some stigma here. Thus, after thinking it over a bit, I decided that while applying to grad schools, jobs, etc., I would pull all links to and mentions of the D&D stuff from my website. (I did leave it up there though, so that links and bookmarks to it would still function.) Now that I'm doing a redesign, I'm ready to reevaluate this stance.
So let's say you were looking to hire me, and you Googled me, and saw my personal website. Would having a subsection under "Random" called "Dungeons & Dragons" be a big turnoff? What about if you were looking to date me? In general, if there were a situation where you didn't know me very well, but for one reason or another ended up on my website... what's the impact?
(Note that I'll be keeping the highly-visited stuff around, for sure, but the question is whether or not I link to it. I understand the importance of not breaking the web (:.)
Another alternative that I'd like feedback on is keeping casual mentions, and perhaps some random blog posts if I re-start blogging, but not have a section dedicated to it. Thoughts on that?
----
What I'm not looking for here is "be yourself" and "screw what other people think" advice. What other people think is quite important, and is to some extent the whole point of having a website and online presence. It's not like someone's going to stop being friends with me/fire me/break up with me/etc. if they discover I play D&D; it's more like someone would avoid becoming friends with me/not hire me/not go out with me/etc. in the first place.
I'm very open about my online identity, with a website that is myrealname.com, a Facebook profile open to the entire world, etc. The idea is that I would like to have a nice online presence that presents me in a good light and makes me easily Googleable. I'm currently redesigning my website, and taking the opportunity to reorganize the content.
Earlier this year I had on there a bunch of Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) stuff, e.g. monsters I've created, guides for new players, and other resources. (One such resource is actually the highest source of hits for my website, giving roughly 300 per week, but those are almost entirely through direct links from various D&D web forums). I also included it as a hobby under "About Me," and so on. But one or two friends said "woah, you have D&D stuff on your website? I wouldn't put that out in public"; I also link to my website from my Steam profile, and one of the guys in the in-game chat started commenting that he'd lost all respect for me once he saw that I played D&D. So clearly there's at least some stigma here. Thus, after thinking it over a bit, I decided that while applying to grad schools, jobs, etc., I would pull all links to and mentions of the D&D stuff from my website. (I did leave it up there though, so that links and bookmarks to it would still function.) Now that I'm doing a redesign, I'm ready to reevaluate this stance.
So let's say you were looking to hire me, and you Googled me, and saw my personal website. Would having a subsection under "Random" called "Dungeons & Dragons" be a big turnoff? What about if you were looking to date me? In general, if there were a situation where you didn't know me very well, but for one reason or another ended up on my website... what's the impact?
(Note that I'll be keeping the highly-visited stuff around, for sure, but the question is whether or not I link to it. I understand the importance of not breaking the web (:.)
Another alternative that I'd like feedback on is keeping casual mentions, and perhaps some random blog posts if I re-start blogging, but not have a section dedicated to it. Thoughts on that?
----
What I'm not looking for here is "be yourself" and "screw what other people think" advice. What other people think is quite important, and is to some extent the whole point of having a website and online presence. It's not like someone's going to stop being friends with me/fire me/break up with me/etc. if they discover I play D&D; it's more like someone would avoid becoming friends with me/not hire me/not go out with me/etc. in the first place.
Best answer: So let's say you were looking to hire me, and you Googled me, and saw my personal website. Would having a subsection under "Random" called "Dungeons & Dragons" be a big turnoff? What about if you were looking to date me?
Yes it would be a big turn off. Why? Because I don't know you and all I'm getting from that open admission is all the stereotypes, which frankly make my skin crawl.
The people I'm most comfortable with in terms of their D&D hobby are those who presented other aspects of themselves first, then let on that were into D&D. That fact that they had other aspects of their life and didn't talk or obsess about D&D, as the stereotype does, made it much more comfortable to discuss and simply be around.
posted by new brand day at 7:07 AM on July 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yes it would be a big turn off. Why? Because I don't know you and all I'm getting from that open admission is all the stereotypes, which frankly make my skin crawl.
The people I'm most comfortable with in terms of their D&D hobby are those who presented other aspects of themselves first, then let on that were into D&D. That fact that they had other aspects of their life and didn't talk or obsess about D&D, as the stereotype does, made it much more comfortable to discuss and simply be around.
posted by new brand day at 7:07 AM on July 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Domains are so inexpensive these days that I'd say keep the yourname.com domain entirely professional, and create a site for D&D that isn't hidden like some dirty secret, but is definitely a separate entity, so that potential employers know that you know how to separate your professional web presence from your personal hobbies.
posted by xingcat at 7:11 AM on July 4, 2010 [16 favorites]
posted by xingcat at 7:11 AM on July 4, 2010 [16 favorites]
If I personally were evaluating hiring you and found your website, I would think higher of you for playing D&D and for sharing your time by putting up information for other players. This is because I play D&D and view it positively, and I also blog a lot and appreciate people sharing knowledge as you have.
However I can see that many people do not have such an association with the thoughts of D&D, for whatever reason that might be. Those people could view it negatively enough to choose to pass on you, despite any qualifications you may have. Whether you would want to work for people who would make a judgment based on a hobby is up to you.
One possible solution is to fragment up your site - make up a subdomain for your D&D stuff and keep it separate from the image you put forth for people who find you via Googling. You could go the extra step of purchasing a different domain name for that purpose, but if it's just a casual interest and you don't want to invest that extra money, a simple mydomain.com/dnd address will allow you to keep the information there and linkable but not necessarily as in-your-face as before. Then, if you meet someone at your job who is interested about D&D, you can start discussing and eventually give them that link. I have done this for one of my hobbies (creating/dyeing/spinning yarn), not because I fear it would have any repercussions for my employ-ability, but simply because the topic information is all corralled in one area and is much easier to read for people who are interested in it versus having it a part of my main blog.
posted by Meagan at 7:23 AM on July 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
However I can see that many people do not have such an association with the thoughts of D&D, for whatever reason that might be. Those people could view it negatively enough to choose to pass on you, despite any qualifications you may have. Whether you would want to work for people who would make a judgment based on a hobby is up to you.
One possible solution is to fragment up your site - make up a subdomain for your D&D stuff and keep it separate from the image you put forth for people who find you via Googling. You could go the extra step of purchasing a different domain name for that purpose, but if it's just a casual interest and you don't want to invest that extra money, a simple mydomain.com/dnd address will allow you to keep the information there and linkable but not necessarily as in-your-face as before. Then, if you meet someone at your job who is interested about D&D, you can start discussing and eventually give them that link. I have done this for one of my hobbies (creating/dyeing/spinning yarn), not because I fear it would have any repercussions for my employ-ability, but simply because the topic information is all corralled in one area and is much easier to read for people who are interested in it versus having it a part of my main blog.
posted by Meagan at 7:23 AM on July 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: As a rule, I would keep your social persona completely, utterly separate from your professional online persona. The only reason to promote your D&D interests to professional contacts is if you're looking for work in the gaming industry.
Remember that your online presence doesn't REVEAL, it PROMOTES. You're in charge of what gets out there and, to some extent, who sees what. If D&D is not a part of the skills and experiences relevant to the jobs you want, then you don't have to introduce it. In fact, you shouldn't.
It's not that D&D will or won't hold you back (it may, it may not). I work with a woman who is also a terrific amateur baker and keeps a really cute blog about the cupcakes she makes. This is about as non-polarizing as it gets, but if I were hiring her, it would be irrelevant unless I was looking for examples of her food photography or web design skills, you know? If she referred me to it during the hiring process, at worst it would feel inappropriate, and at best it would just look like she was trying to pad her resume.
(And I REALLY don't want to know about anyone's political or religious activities off the clock--if someone is a hardcore activist or evangelist for a cause or religion I have problems with, I know that's a profound part of who they are, but I don't want that to interfere with a good working relationship and they probably don't, either.)
As for whether it will cost you friends and lovers, well, sure it could. D&D isn't the only hobby that might do that, though. But the solution there isn't to hide your interests. You clearly love it and are proud of what you've done within the community, and I personally think that's great. You don't need an employer who supports that part of your life, but your friends and lovers absolutely should (or at least tolerate it with good will and a smile, even if they don't share your interest). So in that case, you should put it out there. The people who are turned off by it are people you don't want to hang out with anyway.
posted by thinkingwoman at 7:32 AM on July 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Remember that your online presence doesn't REVEAL, it PROMOTES. You're in charge of what gets out there and, to some extent, who sees what. If D&D is not a part of the skills and experiences relevant to the jobs you want, then you don't have to introduce it. In fact, you shouldn't.
It's not that D&D will or won't hold you back (it may, it may not). I work with a woman who is also a terrific amateur baker and keeps a really cute blog about the cupcakes she makes. This is about as non-polarizing as it gets, but if I were hiring her, it would be irrelevant unless I was looking for examples of her food photography or web design skills, you know? If she referred me to it during the hiring process, at worst it would feel inappropriate, and at best it would just look like she was trying to pad her resume.
(And I REALLY don't want to know about anyone's political or religious activities off the clock--if someone is a hardcore activist or evangelist for a cause or religion I have problems with, I know that's a profound part of who they are, but I don't want that to interfere with a good working relationship and they probably don't, either.)
As for whether it will cost you friends and lovers, well, sure it could. D&D isn't the only hobby that might do that, though. But the solution there isn't to hide your interests. You clearly love it and are proud of what you've done within the community, and I personally think that's great. You don't need an employer who supports that part of your life, but your friends and lovers absolutely should (or at least tolerate it with good will and a smile, even if they don't share your interest). So in that case, you should put it out there. The people who are turned off by it are people you don't want to hang out with anyway.
posted by thinkingwoman at 7:32 AM on July 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
It really, really depends on the industry for which you are working or are looking to work, and the personality of the hiring manager.
There are a lot of negative stereotypes associated with Dungeons & Dragons players, for whatever reason, as others have mentioned. Some hiring managers may be aware of these stereotypes and therefore be averse to hiring you, others know about the stereotypes and won't care, and yet others will be ignorant about them.
Personally, I don't understand the appeal of Dungeons & Dragons. So, if I were your hiring manager and I found a web site that you ran about D&D, my first reaction would be: "Well, how does he present himself to me?" If you've made a positive first impression on me in the flesh, then I really could care less about what your off-work hobbies are, assuming they're legal, etc.
But not everyone who knows about the stereotypes will be as blase as I am.
posted by dfriedman at 7:39 AM on July 4, 2010
There are a lot of negative stereotypes associated with Dungeons & Dragons players, for whatever reason, as others have mentioned. Some hiring managers may be aware of these stereotypes and therefore be averse to hiring you, others know about the stereotypes and won't care, and yet others will be ignorant about them.
Personally, I don't understand the appeal of Dungeons & Dragons. So, if I were your hiring manager and I found a web site that you ran about D&D, my first reaction would be: "Well, how does he present himself to me?" If you've made a positive first impression on me in the flesh, then I really could care less about what your off-work hobbies are, assuming they're legal, etc.
But not everyone who knows about the stereotypes will be as blase as I am.
posted by dfriedman at 7:39 AM on July 4, 2010
Is there some objection to splitting up your site between personal ambitions and professional accomplishments? Certainly some of your assets are related to D&D (well-organized, helping person, etc.) but they don't have to be framed in that way.
D&D won't matter as much as your qualifications and experience - so long as you keep D&D to your off-work time, it really shouldn't matter what you do in one's non-working hours...
posted by chrisinseoul at 7:52 AM on July 4, 2010
D&D won't matter as much as your qualifications and experience - so long as you keep D&D to your off-work time, it really shouldn't matter what you do in one's non-working hours...
posted by chrisinseoul at 7:52 AM on July 4, 2010
Best answer: It depends. Are you clearly different from the stereotypes?
If you're not clearly different from the stereotypes (particularly if you're overweight or acne-covered, as physical appearance locks people's minds into a judgement like no other), people are probably going to assume that you're:
- very geeky
- unhygienic
- unambitious
- a little obsessive
- poor with people
If you have photos of yourself looking good elsewhere on the site, you show indications that you're successful, and you talk about enough other activities that it's clear you're not spending all your time in your basement, detailing your battlemap grid, no one's going to mistake you for the stereotype.
I'm a fit-looking startup founder with some great stories about camping and cliff-jumping. When people find out I play D&D (well, these days an indie system called World's Edge we're working on self-publishing), they're surprised but not negatively-biased. (Including people who read about me on my site, after seeing me on twitter, and later met me and had it come up in conversation.) It's great, because I broaden their horizons a bit, and once I tell them about how it's interactive-storytelling and a really fun way to see other sides of your friends, some have even wanted to try it.
So, if you're a stereotype-buster, it's not going to hurt you professionally. It might surprise a girl to hear you're into it, but if she reacts negatively, do you really want to date a girl that doesn't get a bit of geekiness? She's decided if she wants to date you way before she reads about your D&D interest.
Super-geek note: If you really want a solid answer, use Google Analytics to determine what percentage of people exit your site on a D&D-related page after entering from a search for your name. (You see!? This is the kind of nerdery that drives the away the girls, not the D&D. =P )
posted by ElfWord at 7:52 AM on July 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
If you're not clearly different from the stereotypes (particularly if you're overweight or acne-covered, as physical appearance locks people's minds into a judgement like no other), people are probably going to assume that you're:
- very geeky
- unhygienic
- unambitious
- a little obsessive
- poor with people
If you have photos of yourself looking good elsewhere on the site, you show indications that you're successful, and you talk about enough other activities that it's clear you're not spending all your time in your basement, detailing your battlemap grid, no one's going to mistake you for the stereotype.
I'm a fit-looking startup founder with some great stories about camping and cliff-jumping. When people find out I play D&D (well, these days an indie system called World's Edge we're working on self-publishing), they're surprised but not negatively-biased. (Including people who read about me on my site, after seeing me on twitter, and later met me and had it come up in conversation.) It's great, because I broaden their horizons a bit, and once I tell them about how it's interactive-storytelling and a really fun way to see other sides of your friends, some have even wanted to try it.
So, if you're a stereotype-buster, it's not going to hurt you professionally. It might surprise a girl to hear you're into it, but if she reacts negatively, do you really want to date a girl that doesn't get a bit of geekiness? She's decided if she wants to date you way before she reads about your D&D interest.
Super-geek note: If you really want a solid answer, use Google Analytics to determine what percentage of people exit your site on a D&D-related page after entering from a search for your name. (You see!? This is the kind of nerdery that drives the away the girls, not the D&D. =P )
posted by ElfWord at 7:52 AM on July 4, 2010 [4 favorites]
I am here to tell you that there is a world, viz. the world that I live in, a world of game designers and computer programmers and people with masters degrees and PhDs making awesome stuff forever, in which having a D&D section on your website is both (a) not unusual and (b) kind of amazing. If you had the appropriate qualifications and credentials otherwise, I can imagine the company I work for choosing to hire you just so could DM games for us. And that's not necessarily specific to D&D; having a hobby that requires critical thinking and creativity is always a plus.
Moreover---it would be super weird if you and I became friends, or if I hired you, or if I accepted you to my (hypothetical) grad program, and I later found out that you were a big D&D nerd, but you'd specifically removed links to your D&D material from your website in order to look more "normal." It makes it seem like you're ashamed of your hobby, and that other people with the same hobby should be ashamed too. Which isn't cool.
As long as D&D is something you're passionate about, and something you're good at, and something that doesn't seem like it rules your life completely, you should by all means make it a part of your web site. There's always going to be something about you that automatically and irrationally disqualifies you from some people's respect ("I'd never hire a guy with a degree from a STATE school" or "I don't like his middle name" or "she plays the banjo, whoa, weird"). So you might as well advertise your strengths and passions.
The only circumstance in which I would consider removing links to your D&D stuff is if you're absolutely sure that the people in your community and the field you're trying to get into (with regards to employment or grad school) are incredibly conservative. Incredibly conservative... and also in the past, like 1980 or so, having just read the famous Jack Chick tract and watched Mazes and Monsters.
Here's a list from Wikipedia of famous D&D players that might help you get over your shame.
posted by aparrish at 8:01 AM on July 4, 2010 [5 favorites]
Moreover---it would be super weird if you and I became friends, or if I hired you, or if I accepted you to my (hypothetical) grad program, and I later found out that you were a big D&D nerd, but you'd specifically removed links to your D&D material from your website in order to look more "normal." It makes it seem like you're ashamed of your hobby, and that other people with the same hobby should be ashamed too. Which isn't cool.
As long as D&D is something you're passionate about, and something you're good at, and something that doesn't seem like it rules your life completely, you should by all means make it a part of your web site. There's always going to be something about you that automatically and irrationally disqualifies you from some people's respect ("I'd never hire a guy with a degree from a STATE school" or "I don't like his middle name" or "she plays the banjo, whoa, weird"). So you might as well advertise your strengths and passions.
The only circumstance in which I would consider removing links to your D&D stuff is if you're absolutely sure that the people in your community and the field you're trying to get into (with regards to employment or grad school) are incredibly conservative. Incredibly conservative... and also in the past, like 1980 or so, having just read the famous Jack Chick tract and watched Mazes and Monsters.
Here's a list from Wikipedia of famous D&D players that might help you get over your shame.
posted by aparrish at 8:01 AM on July 4, 2010 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Two considerations:
1) Do you want relationships with the greatest possible number of people, or with the people with whom you have a lot in common? I don't mean just other D&D players, but people who realize that D&D might actually be a _good_ thing, and might make you more interesting as a person that a guy whose hobbies are watching "Dexter" reruns and sampling the restaurants closest to his house?
You're approaching this as a them-filtering-you problem, when it could be a you-filtering-them solution.
Now, I realize you're looking for jobs, and this is just one additional consideration out of many known, existing considerations, but I thought I'd throw it out there. If you were to begin relationships with 50 people, and 4 out of 5 are turned off by the D&D reference (or something else, like maybe you have blue eyes or an obvious affection for purebred cats), then you're left with 10 relationships - and if you really network with 5 of those, that's a reasonable number, and you know they're pretty cool people. You can actually make time to build real friendships, and potentially end up working with people you can really trust and with whom you can be yourself, with whom you could potentially do some awesome creative stuff -- if that's your goal.
2) It's your web site, so you can say as much and whatever you want, and organize it in a way that best suits you. You can write much more than "I also play D&D". You can say why you play D&D, talk about the people you've met and the kinds of friendships you've formed, tell about how you got started playing and how your relationship to the game has changed over time, and basically shift focus away from stereotypes from the get-go.
True, if you title the page, and the link to the page, "Dungeons & Dragons", people might not get beyond that. You'd need to dig in and figure out what it really represents to you. This is going to sound flip (and it is - it's a terrible example), but you could use a title like "my earliest social network" or "RPG's: dorky or not?" or "How I spend every third Saturday night", to show that you have something like a broader perspective, and/or don't just play obsessively all the time. I sincerely hope you can do better than my naieve attempts here.
The point is to show the best part of D&D for you, and to lead with that information. That's interesting and will give people a nice insight into you, how you think, and your relationships and interest in and liking for other people -- which are qualities most employers would love to have on their teams.
posted by amtho at 8:03 AM on July 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
1) Do you want relationships with the greatest possible number of people, or with the people with whom you have a lot in common? I don't mean just other D&D players, but people who realize that D&D might actually be a _good_ thing, and might make you more interesting as a person that a guy whose hobbies are watching "Dexter" reruns and sampling the restaurants closest to his house?
You're approaching this as a them-filtering-you problem, when it could be a you-filtering-them solution.
Now, I realize you're looking for jobs, and this is just one additional consideration out of many known, existing considerations, but I thought I'd throw it out there. If you were to begin relationships with 50 people, and 4 out of 5 are turned off by the D&D reference (or something else, like maybe you have blue eyes or an obvious affection for purebred cats), then you're left with 10 relationships - and if you really network with 5 of those, that's a reasonable number, and you know they're pretty cool people. You can actually make time to build real friendships, and potentially end up working with people you can really trust and with whom you can be yourself, with whom you could potentially do some awesome creative stuff -- if that's your goal.
2) It's your web site, so you can say as much and whatever you want, and organize it in a way that best suits you. You can write much more than "I also play D&D". You can say why you play D&D, talk about the people you've met and the kinds of friendships you've formed, tell about how you got started playing and how your relationship to the game has changed over time, and basically shift focus away from stereotypes from the get-go.
True, if you title the page, and the link to the page, "Dungeons & Dragons", people might not get beyond that. You'd need to dig in and figure out what it really represents to you. This is going to sound flip (and it is - it's a terrible example), but you could use a title like "my earliest social network" or "RPG's: dorky or not?" or "How I spend every third Saturday night", to show that you have something like a broader perspective, and/or don't just play obsessively all the time. I sincerely hope you can do better than my naieve attempts here.
The point is to show the best part of D&D for you, and to lead with that information. That's interesting and will give people a nice insight into you, how you think, and your relationships and interest in and liking for other people -- which are qualities most employers would love to have on their teams.
posted by amtho at 8:03 AM on July 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Wow, are you kidding me? I'm shocked by some of the answers here.
My website is uber geeky. It's associated with my real name, and easily found via google. When I was job searching a year ago, it prominently featured a professional photo of me dressed as a Vulcan. I had no problem getting calls about jobs. It only came up once in my job search, when my current boss (at a business formal, fairly conservative, university foundation) mentioned the web site to be sure I wouldn't talk about my job there. She wasn't afraid of the fact that I was a dork. She was afraid that I would dooce her!
She then went on to tell me what a big Star Trek fan she'd been when she was a kid.
Current job search, same thing. I've gotten a nice handful of calls regarding job applications, despite my online presence and the fact that I'm not even in the geographic area yet. Hiring committees don't care what you do in your spare time as long as there aren't pictures of you with a bong or kicking a kitty emblazoned all over public facebook photos. And, frankly, if they're the type of people extreme enough to care about the dorky things you do at home you probably really don't want to work for them. I've been in professional circles that spurned dorkiness (mostly in graduate school, not in my career). I was miserable. It felt like high school.
Surprisingly, though, most of my career interactions haven't been with judgmental peeps like that, but instead with people who either were a bit dorky themselves (there's a big D&D contingent at my job--again, a traditional, fairly conservative workplace) or really did not care so long as I did my job well.
But one or two friends said "woah, you have D&D stuff on your website? I wouldn't put that out in public"; I also link to my website from my Steam profile, and one of the guys in the in-game chat started commenting that he'd lost all respect for me once he saw that I played D&D.
Your friends are being assholes. There's no reason to keep yourself closeted here, and please don't assume that what some jerks on Steam--the same guys who make their characters tea bag dead bodies in-game, I'm sure--say to you is representative of a wider reality.
Trust me--you'll be much happier in a work place that knows where the name "Jacen Solo" comes from.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:11 AM on July 4, 2010 [8 favorites]
My website is uber geeky. It's associated with my real name, and easily found via google. When I was job searching a year ago, it prominently featured a professional photo of me dressed as a Vulcan. I had no problem getting calls about jobs. It only came up once in my job search, when my current boss (at a business formal, fairly conservative, university foundation) mentioned the web site to be sure I wouldn't talk about my job there. She wasn't afraid of the fact that I was a dork. She was afraid that I would dooce her!
She then went on to tell me what a big Star Trek fan she'd been when she was a kid.
Current job search, same thing. I've gotten a nice handful of calls regarding job applications, despite my online presence and the fact that I'm not even in the geographic area yet. Hiring committees don't care what you do in your spare time as long as there aren't pictures of you with a bong or kicking a kitty emblazoned all over public facebook photos. And, frankly, if they're the type of people extreme enough to care about the dorky things you do at home you probably really don't want to work for them. I've been in professional circles that spurned dorkiness (mostly in graduate school, not in my career). I was miserable. It felt like high school.
Surprisingly, though, most of my career interactions haven't been with judgmental peeps like that, but instead with people who either were a bit dorky themselves (there's a big D&D contingent at my job--again, a traditional, fairly conservative workplace) or really did not care so long as I did my job well.
But one or two friends said "woah, you have D&D stuff on your website? I wouldn't put that out in public"; I also link to my website from my Steam profile, and one of the guys in the in-game chat started commenting that he'd lost all respect for me once he saw that I played D&D.
Your friends are being assholes. There's no reason to keep yourself closeted here, and please don't assume that what some jerks on Steam--the same guys who make their characters tea bag dead bodies in-game, I'm sure--say to you is representative of a wider reality.
Trust me--you'll be much happier in a work place that knows where the name "Jacen Solo" comes from.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:11 AM on July 4, 2010 [8 favorites]
Best answer: Without knowing exactly what field you're in, I'd break it down like this- If your prospective employer is a law firm, a bank, or anywhere you're expected to wear a tie every day, I'd leave it off. Otherwise, I wouldn't think twice about leaving it on.
posted by mkultra at 8:11 AM on July 4, 2010
posted by mkultra at 8:11 AM on July 4, 2010
If I was looking to hire, especially in this economy, I'd be more interested in someone who's hobby was in line with the position. Having an outside life is fine and understandable of course, but if that outside hobby happens to mess with the business goals great. If they totally oppose it (Oh hey, can't stay late, there's a D&D tournament) then that would make me pause on hiring that person.
posted by new brand day at 8:12 AM on July 4, 2010
posted by new brand day at 8:12 AM on July 4, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks for the great and detailed answers, guys; AMF never ceases to amaze.
For the record, the industry I'd be working in is computer software (preferably tech startup-type, instead of working as a software peon for e.g. a financial firm). But, there's still a big line between D&D and computer-nerdiness; my impression is that it's kind of over the line in some respects. That is, it hasn't moved into the mainstream in the sense that e.g. Star Trek has. Cf. the geek hierarchy.
Also for the record, I don't meet the stereotype, with regard to appearance or otherwise.
I'll definitely ponder all I've heard here; I'm nowhere close to a decision. Thanks especially for the feedback on various options, e.g. separate site, and in particular amtho's idea of how to avoid the issue with the page title, and corresponding link title---that was quite creative.
posted by Jacen Solo at 8:35 AM on July 4, 2010
For the record, the industry I'd be working in is computer software (preferably tech startup-type, instead of working as a software peon for e.g. a financial firm). But, there's still a big line between D&D and computer-nerdiness; my impression is that it's kind of over the line in some respects. That is, it hasn't moved into the mainstream in the sense that e.g. Star Trek has. Cf. the geek hierarchy.
Also for the record, I don't meet the stereotype, with regard to appearance or otherwise.
I'll definitely ponder all I've heard here; I'm nowhere close to a decision. Thanks especially for the feedback on various options, e.g. separate site, and in particular amtho's idea of how to avoid the issue with the page title, and corresponding link title---that was quite creative.
posted by Jacen Solo at 8:35 AM on July 4, 2010
For the record, the industry I'd be working in is computer software (preferably tech startup-type, instead of working as a software peon for e.g. a financial firm). But, there's still a big line between D&D and computer-nerdiness; my impression is that it's kind of over the line in some respects. That is, it hasn't moved into the mainstream in the sense that e.g. Star Trek has. Cf. the geek hierarchy.
Cosplaying trekkies are still pretty far down there. :P
But, again, I'd urge you to embrace your hobbies openly for any number of reasons--not in the least because you should be screening potential jobs/dates just as much as they're screening you (would you really want to date someone who wouldn't be okay with you spending time on a D&D campaign?), and because you can be a solid example of a socially functioning D&D player.
But again, I've met plenty of RenFest geeks, D&D players, women who are all about urban fantasy novels, and LARPers in my conservative workplace. My boss, for her part, is obsessed with bee keeping. The further you move from high school, the less these sorts of things matter.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:47 AM on July 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Cosplaying trekkies are still pretty far down there. :P
But, again, I'd urge you to embrace your hobbies openly for any number of reasons--not in the least because you should be screening potential jobs/dates just as much as they're screening you (would you really want to date someone who wouldn't be okay with you spending time on a D&D campaign?), and because you can be a solid example of a socially functioning D&D player.
But again, I've met plenty of RenFest geeks, D&D players, women who are all about urban fantasy novels, and LARPers in my conservative workplace. My boss, for her part, is obsessed with bee keeping. The further you move from high school, the less these sorts of things matter.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:47 AM on July 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Jacen SoloPoster: For the record, the industry I'd be working in is computer software (preferably tech startup-type, instead of working as a software peon for e.g. a financial firm).
Programming? Pfft, leave it in. I run tech at a startup and love seeing things like that from candidates- it shows you've (a) got an active life outside your job and (b) have something interesting to talk about. Especially if you've, as you've noted, made something useful that has attracted attention.
posted by mkultra at 8:58 AM on July 4, 2010
Programming? Pfft, leave it in. I run tech at a startup and love seeing things like that from candidates- it shows you've (a) got an active life outside your job and (b) have something interesting to talk about. Especially if you've, as you've noted, made something useful that has attracted attention.
posted by mkultra at 8:58 AM on July 4, 2010
I cannot imagine why anyone would give a shit about this for hiring purposes, and I work for a bank. The tech people in banks are just as dorky as the tech people anywhere else.
posted by ch1x0r at 9:04 AM on July 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by ch1x0r at 9:04 AM on July 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Seconding ch1x0r. I work in bank software and many if not most of my coworkers have played D&D at some point. It would never occur to me to count it against a prospective hire.
I wouldn't count it against a prospective date, either, but then I'm painting Warhammer 40K miniatures for entertainment today.
posted by magicbus at 9:30 AM on July 4, 2010
I wouldn't count it against a prospective date, either, but then I'm painting Warhammer 40K miniatures for entertainment today.
posted by magicbus at 9:30 AM on July 4, 2010
To be clear, I wasn't talking about avoiding the issue so much as meeting it head-on and decapitating it.
posted by amtho at 9:56 AM on July 4, 2010
posted by amtho at 9:56 AM on July 4, 2010
I'll mostly go with the people saying, "Leave it up," with a caveat: If you are on the verge of penury and need to have a job yesterday, take it down. If you are in a position where you have the luxury of being able to say no on work-place environment grounds, by all means leave it up.
And an anecdote: I had a similarish conundrum, in that one of the few things on my resume that was not "I taught this course/I gave this talk" was "I managed the student bar for a year." I was pretty iffy about whether to leave that on (are they going to think I was some kind of party animal?), and finally decided to do so. At the interview for my current (awesome) job, those two sentences were the part of my resume that I got the most questions/discussion out of.
Especially in your case, where it's not "Here are drawings of my characters" (not that that's a bad thing if you're, say, an artist) but rather "Here are some resources I've created and am sharing," leave it up. In the industry you're looking at, and at a work-place you want to be in, it'll be a positive.
posted by PMdixon at 9:56 AM on July 4, 2010
And an anecdote: I had a similarish conundrum, in that one of the few things on my resume that was not "I taught this course/I gave this talk" was "I managed the student bar for a year." I was pretty iffy about whether to leave that on (are they going to think I was some kind of party animal?), and finally decided to do so. At the interview for my current (awesome) job, those two sentences were the part of my resume that I got the most questions/discussion out of.
Especially in your case, where it's not "Here are drawings of my characters" (not that that's a bad thing if you're, say, an artist) but rather "Here are some resources I've created and am sharing," leave it up. In the industry you're looking at, and at a work-place you want to be in, it'll be a positive.
posted by PMdixon at 9:56 AM on July 4, 2010
Best answer: "What about if you were looking to date me?"
I googled my husband before our first date. The top result was a D&D page. I have never been involved in D&D or similar subcultures (other than reading SFF, but not any fandom, just reading). My reaction was, "Oh, phew, he's a dork, so he won't be a jackass 'player' type." I assumed it meant he would be sincere, a little dorky, and probably enthusiastic about things he liked -- all good qualities.
I went on the date. We've been married 8 years. He still does D&D, I still don't. I experiment with recipes when he hosts the game here and I can unload large quantities of experimental food on the gamers. :) Of all the guys he's gamed with (and the couple of women), only one has fit the negative stereotypes of a D&D gamer (and he had a traumatic brain injury; I think the personality problems had more to do with that than with gaming, and the "living with parents" certainly had to do with the medical setbacks). They have mostly been very nice, very sincere, witty, clever, smart, nerdy dudes.
That is to say, I would not count it against you for dating. I would probably count it slightly in your favor.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:02 AM on July 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
I googled my husband before our first date. The top result was a D&D page. I have never been involved in D&D or similar subcultures (other than reading SFF, but not any fandom, just reading). My reaction was, "Oh, phew, he's a dork, so he won't be a jackass 'player' type." I assumed it meant he would be sincere, a little dorky, and probably enthusiastic about things he liked -- all good qualities.
I went on the date. We've been married 8 years. He still does D&D, I still don't. I experiment with recipes when he hosts the game here and I can unload large quantities of experimental food on the gamers. :) Of all the guys he's gamed with (and the couple of women), only one has fit the negative stereotypes of a D&D gamer (and he had a traumatic brain injury; I think the personality problems had more to do with that than with gaming, and the "living with parents" certainly had to do with the medical setbacks). They have mostly been very nice, very sincere, witty, clever, smart, nerdy dudes.
That is to say, I would not count it against you for dating. I would probably count it slightly in your favor.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:02 AM on July 4, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: It might also help your case to pretend to be Christian. Why don't you do that?
posted by fleacircus at 11:09 AM on July 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by fleacircus at 11:09 AM on July 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm a software lead, and I've looked at a lot of resumes and hired a lot of people over the years. If someone makes it past the phone screen, I always try to find more info about them on the web. I always look at it favorably if a candidate has a passionate interest in something, as passion, curiosity, etc are some of the general traits I'm interested in with a candidate.
And if you've actually contributed to the D&D community, all the better.
posted by tippiedog at 12:53 PM on July 4, 2010
And if you've actually contributed to the D&D community, all the better.
posted by tippiedog at 12:53 PM on July 4, 2010
Maybe it's different where you are, but in the UK it's my impression that CVs for most jobs are filtered by a non-technical person first, usually either a recruitment agent or an HR person. I can definitely imagine someone like that being prejudiced against D&D players and letting those opinions inform their selection.
Plus, their actions don't necessarily reflect the mentality of the people you'd be working with; if you were hired you'd probably never see that person again.
posted by emilyw at 1:13 PM on July 4, 2010
Plus, their actions don't necessarily reflect the mentality of the people you'd be working with; if you were hired you'd probably never see that person again.
posted by emilyw at 1:13 PM on July 4, 2010
I've only recently started to "come out" to my professional colleagues about my World of Warcraft hobby. What works for me, when I'm talking to non-gamers about it, is to emphasize the common humanity of it: that I play not because I secretly want to be an elf, but because I enjoy the creativity of the game design and the challenges and rewards of an online social life. I am finding that people's comfort level with gaming increases when they start to grasp the social dynamics of it without getting bogged down with the lore and geeky stuff.
FWIW, my advice is to separate your professional and social web presences, but do not be afraid to link between them. If your professional site includes a section on personal interests, you might consider a brief statement -- the 30-second "story" of your D&D hobby -- with a link into your D&D content. The idea would be to state simply and clearly for a non-gamer audience the basis for your love of D&D and the reasons why you have these guides and artwork up -- for example, because you like the challenge of analyzing the game, helping people, and having an artistic and creative outlet. People get stuff like that. Anyone who wants to see more can click through; those who can't, won't, but they will have a nice and not-to-geeky context to understand you a little more. And you'll have set up a healthy boundary that tells people that the personal side of you is available but not "out there". IMHO that's a professional attitude to have.
posted by woot at 1:40 PM on July 4, 2010
FWIW, my advice is to separate your professional and social web presences, but do not be afraid to link between them. If your professional site includes a section on personal interests, you might consider a brief statement -- the 30-second "story" of your D&D hobby -- with a link into your D&D content. The idea would be to state simply and clearly for a non-gamer audience the basis for your love of D&D and the reasons why you have these guides and artwork up -- for example, because you like the challenge of analyzing the game, helping people, and having an artistic and creative outlet. People get stuff like that. Anyone who wants to see more can click through; those who can't, won't, but they will have a nice and not-to-geeky context to understand you a little more. And you'll have set up a healthy boundary that tells people that the personal side of you is available but not "out there". IMHO that's a professional attitude to have.
posted by woot at 1:40 PM on July 4, 2010
Eeek. Couple of typos in there. "can't" --> "don't"; "not-to-geeky" --> "not-too-geeky."
Playing WoW on the other machine... not paying attention... heh.
posted by woot at 1:46 PM on July 4, 2010
Playing WoW on the other machine... not paying attention... heh.
posted by woot at 1:46 PM on July 4, 2010
Jacen Solo: "But, there's still a big line between D&D and computer-nerdiness; my impression is that it's kind of over the line in some respects. That is, it hasn't moved into the mainstream in the sense that e.g. Star Trek has. Cf. the geek hierarchy."
Life is too damn short to worry about what other people think about what you do with your free time. Especially other nerds—people who should know the grief of nerd prejudice better than most. They allow some hierarchy like you cited to form in their minds, as though playing World of Warcraft was significantly different than D&D. Familiarity breeds contempt, I suppose.
In terms of Google searching, it's about how your online persona networks across sites in aggregate, not just one site. I present a slightly different take to the dual site suggestion above: keep your personal site, but create a professional website. When a website like MeFi or StackOverflow gives you the opportunity to provide a link, use the professional one. The content on the professional site will visibly mention you as author and include a short bio, but is more about the profession and content than you—maybe even invite a coblogger to emphasize this fact. I'm thinking of a sysadmin I know of who has written multiple books about system administration, keeps a blog to promote the books and profession, and helps with the LISA conference. Meanwhile his low pagerank, low profile personal page mentions gay rights activism, but it doesn't seem to stop him from landing work in the field with large companies. If you only Google his name, his books and blogs have more Google Juice.
I know that you're probably not as well accomplished as this guy, so it'll be a bit tougher, but I'm guessing most visitors to your D&D content weren't there because they wanted to know more about you, but rather Google directed their query for some D&D module to your site. You can use the proliferation of hosting sites for specific content makes it easier for you to share different, overlapping sets of your portfolio to different audiences without necessarily letting people make the links they would if you self hosted everything. For example, both sites may mention a relevant software project, but only the personal, more private site will host your new D&D campaign or newborn child photos. Or move them to Flickr and whatever might be available for D&D and just share the Flickr album URL with friends and family. Trees hidden among a forest.
As for the worst case scenario, I don't really think D&D is all that bad. My boss is a fairly tall, athletic guy who loves KU basketball and served for years in the Army. But he's still got some Magic: The Gathering stuff decorating his office. Frankly, it'd be weird in my office if you didn't play D&D or WoW or something as a hobby. As for dating, it's no worse than if they find out you program or fix computers all day; either way you're a nerd. I'd focus on making good first impressions in person; it's much easier to convince them that a normal person plays D&D than a D&D player is a normal person.
posted by pwnguin at 2:09 PM on July 4, 2010
Life is too damn short to worry about what other people think about what you do with your free time. Especially other nerds—people who should know the grief of nerd prejudice better than most. They allow some hierarchy like you cited to form in their minds, as though playing World of Warcraft was significantly different than D&D. Familiarity breeds contempt, I suppose.
In terms of Google searching, it's about how your online persona networks across sites in aggregate, not just one site. I present a slightly different take to the dual site suggestion above: keep your personal site, but create a professional website. When a website like MeFi or StackOverflow gives you the opportunity to provide a link, use the professional one. The content on the professional site will visibly mention you as author and include a short bio, but is more about the profession and content than you—maybe even invite a coblogger to emphasize this fact. I'm thinking of a sysadmin I know of who has written multiple books about system administration, keeps a blog to promote the books and profession, and helps with the LISA conference. Meanwhile his low pagerank, low profile personal page mentions gay rights activism, but it doesn't seem to stop him from landing work in the field with large companies. If you only Google his name, his books and blogs have more Google Juice.
I know that you're probably not as well accomplished as this guy, so it'll be a bit tougher, but I'm guessing most visitors to your D&D content weren't there because they wanted to know more about you, but rather Google directed their query for some D&D module to your site. You can use the proliferation of hosting sites for specific content makes it easier for you to share different, overlapping sets of your portfolio to different audiences without necessarily letting people make the links they would if you self hosted everything. For example, both sites may mention a relevant software project, but only the personal, more private site will host your new D&D campaign or newborn child photos. Or move them to Flickr and whatever might be available for D&D and just share the Flickr album URL with friends and family. Trees hidden among a forest.
As for the worst case scenario, I don't really think D&D is all that bad. My boss is a fairly tall, athletic guy who loves KU basketball and served for years in the Army. But he's still got some Magic: The Gathering stuff decorating his office. Frankly, it'd be weird in my office if you didn't play D&D or WoW or something as a hobby. As for dating, it's no worse than if they find out you program or fix computers all day; either way you're a nerd. I'd focus on making good first impressions in person; it's much easier to convince them that a normal person plays D&D than a D&D player is a normal person.
posted by pwnguin at 2:09 PM on July 4, 2010
Don't worry about it, all decent hirers care about is "can they do the job?" and "will they fit the culture?". In that context, D&D is no different from being into frisbee, sculpting, photography whatever. If they think your enthusiasm for d&d is going to mean a culture clash, truly you don't want to work there. Furthermore, it might very well function as a good "hook" in interviews.
They will be looking at your cv first, and your website second. Believe me, there are a million things that will affect the decision before it gets into personal hobbies - any personal hobbies.
posted by smoke at 4:13 PM on July 4, 2010
They will be looking at your cv first, and your website second. Believe me, there are a million things that will affect the decision before it gets into personal hobbies - any personal hobbies.
posted by smoke at 4:13 PM on July 4, 2010
Yikes at some of the responses! Like pwnguin said, I work in tech as well and when I meet co-workers that don't do nerdy things, I think they're weird. It's a huge part of who you are, and if they can't deal with someone that puts a lot of effort and motivation into something they love - they're probably missing out on a great candidate.
posted by june made him a gemini at 4:18 PM on July 4, 2010
posted by june made him a gemini at 4:18 PM on July 4, 2010
If I were you I'd keep the D&D stuff on a separate D&D-themed site, but link to it from your main site. This seems win-win to me -- lets you acknowledge your D&D thing, while showing that you can keep your work and personal life separate when needed.
posted by desuetude at 5:36 PM on July 4, 2010
posted by desuetude at 5:36 PM on July 4, 2010
Anecdata: I'm a lawyer, but I've also written several videogames that are at least as geeky as anything on your site is likely to be. My name is unique and I'm very easily googleable, but as far as I can tell nobody on an interview panel has ever bothered to search for me. Now I think about it I might actually have mentioned this in my CV for some of my more recent applications, and it doesn't seem to have done me any harm. The only time anyone seemed to notice at all was once when some future co-workers emailed me to ask if I played WoW.
If you're really worried, can you leave the D&D stuff on your site but just hide it behind a few layers of links? Anyone looking for it specifically will be able to find it, but someone searching for just your name will only find your front page and it would be an unusually conscientious HR person who would spend much time exploring the whole site.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 3:57 AM on July 5, 2010
If you're really worried, can you leave the D&D stuff on your site but just hide it behind a few layers of links? Anyone looking for it specifically will be able to find it, but someone searching for just your name will only find your front page and it would be an unusually conscientious HR person who would spend much time exploring the whole site.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 3:57 AM on July 5, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
If *I* were looking to hire you, it wouldn't make a difference to me, and in fact D&D might count in your favor. But it's going to depend on a lot of things, like industry, hiring manager, ETC. If you're applying for something technical, probably not a problem. I can imagine other industries/organizations that might look down on it, though. You could mitigate it by designing it well, to show off your organizational/coding skills, and that would impress most hiring managers.
I think if you follow that in general, you'll probably be ok. To be honest, given some of what's on Facebook/blogs, I think D&D is ok.
True story: Some guy I decided not to hire kept emailing me afterwards, asking advice, thoughts, etc. He had an usual email address, so I decided to look at the site. It was his, and linked off the main page were a bunch of softcore homoerotic bondage photos. I was surprised that he was using that domain to email potential employers (again, though, had I seen it before I decided he was unqualified it wouldn't have made a difference).
posted by Gorgik at 7:02 AM on July 4, 2010