What if this question battled Superman?
June 13, 2010 7:13 PM Subscribe
I want to know more about the history and psychology of "crossover" stories of fictional characters. Some specific questions inside:
1) I was wondering if anyone could date the first "crossover" story where two popular characters from disparate works by disparate authors came together for a crowd-pleasing result. The earliest stories I know of are the old Universal "Monster Mash" movies, but are there earlier examples in cinema, and does this concept have its history in literature or theater? (Were there crossovers in the 1800s?)
2) Is there any real explanation why the "crossover" idea has such wide appeal? I mean, I know it goes down to the playground concept of "Who would win in a fight, Spider-Man or Superman?" but is there any psychological explanation why such concepts fascinate us so much? And to that, is this specifically a "geek" phenomenon or is this an American culture phenomenon or does it have universal appeal?
3) Excluding "shared universe" characters (like all superheroes that coexist in the Marvel universe and all the characters that coexist in the DC universe, etc) what has been crossed over the most? Is it Predator (Judge Dredd, Batman x 4, Terminator and Alien, Alien, etc, etc, etc)
4) Is there something that makes a character a better candidate for a crossover, and if so what are those characteristics?
1) I was wondering if anyone could date the first "crossover" story where two popular characters from disparate works by disparate authors came together for a crowd-pleasing result. The earliest stories I know of are the old Universal "Monster Mash" movies, but are there earlier examples in cinema, and does this concept have its history in literature or theater? (Were there crossovers in the 1800s?)
2) Is there any real explanation why the "crossover" idea has such wide appeal? I mean, I know it goes down to the playground concept of "Who would win in a fight, Spider-Man or Superman?" but is there any psychological explanation why such concepts fascinate us so much? And to that, is this specifically a "geek" phenomenon or is this an American culture phenomenon or does it have universal appeal?
3) Excluding "shared universe" characters (like all superheroes that coexist in the Marvel universe and all the characters that coexist in the DC universe, etc) what has been crossed over the most? Is it Predator (Judge Dredd, Batman x 4, Terminator and Alien, Alien, etc, etc, etc)
4) Is there something that makes a character a better candidate for a crossover, and if so what are those characteristics?
Re #1, how about 3rd century B.C.? Jason assembles an all-star team of heroes from other myths.
As to #2 and #4, I would hazard the guess "popularity". Crossovers are done with at least one very popular character, and often done to boost popularity of other characters.
posted by fings at 7:38 PM on June 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
As to #2 and #4, I would hazard the guess "popularity". Crossovers are done with at least one very popular character, and often done to boost popularity of other characters.
posted by fings at 7:38 PM on June 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Here is an essay I found while googling, that gets into more recent (19th century) examples.
posted by fings at 8:19 PM on June 13, 2010
posted by fings at 8:19 PM on June 13, 2010
How's 1910 for you? Arsene Lupin vs Sherlock Holmes by Mauric LeBlanc. Lupin was considered the French version of Holmes, so it's natural they would meet in fiction :) I thought I remembered hearing that LeBlanc was distantly related to Conan Doyle but Wikipedia says nothing on this, so I could be wrong. But I am right about the book, it's freely available on-line since it's in the public domain by now.
posted by JoannaC at 10:08 PM on June 13, 2010
posted by JoannaC at 10:08 PM on June 13, 2010
Forgot to mention John Kendrick Bangs. he wrote a very popular series (late 1800s) in which Charon, ferryman of the underworld, becomes a caretaker on a houseboat-based gentlemen's club featuring famous men throughout history. There is no real plot other than the premise-slash-punchline of the respective chapters. For example, it would be something like 'Napoleon plays chess---with Shakespeare! Hilarity ensues.'
posted by JoannaC at 10:14 PM on June 13, 2010
posted by JoannaC at 10:14 PM on June 13, 2010
Re: #3, you may wish to examine the career of Det. John Munch:
posted by cirripede at 10:55 PM on June 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Munch has been the only fictional character played by a single actor to appear on eight different television shows. These shows were on four different networks: NBC (Homicide: Life on the Street, and Law & Order franchise), FOX (The X-Files, Arrested Development), UPN (The Beat), and HBO (The Wire). Munch has also been one of the only television characters to cross genres, appearing not only in crime drama series, but also the genres of sitcom (Arrested Development), Late Night Comedy (Jimmy Kimmel Live) and horror and science fiction (The X-Files).[32] He has also played a role in international television series, beginning with UK crime drama Luther where he is mentioned as an American contact for the series' Serious Crime Unit (SCU).He was even turned into a Muppet!
posted by cirripede at 10:55 PM on June 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
what has been crossed over the most?
Have you considered Stephen King stories? I am not sure how to distinguish between what you think of as cross-over and shared world, but the characters, concepts, and props of one King story turn up in others time and again.
The last couple Dark Tower books in particular brought in every one and everything from his what 30+ year and 30+ book career, some as integral parts of the story and others at cameo level.
posted by whatzit at 11:19 PM on June 13, 2010
Have you considered Stephen King stories? I am not sure how to distinguish between what you think of as cross-over and shared world, but the characters, concepts, and props of one King story turn up in others time and again.
The last couple Dark Tower books in particular brought in every one and everything from his what 30+ year and 30+ book career, some as integral parts of the story and others at cameo level.
posted by whatzit at 11:19 PM on June 13, 2010
Depending on how you view is-it-the-same-character, I'm thinking #3 might very well be Dracula.
posted by fings at 7:43 AM on June 14, 2010
posted by fings at 7:43 AM on June 14, 2010
Interesting question. Although I'm going to assume that you're mostly interested in published works, I would like to point out that crossovers and "fusions" are much more numerous in fanfiction, probably mostly due to published works having to deal with the legal issues of using someone else's character(s).
As far as motivation goes, I think crossovers in general are popular for much the same reason that fanfic itself is: you're taking characters who are familiar and putting them into new circumstances. See the popularity of mash-ups for a similar idea. People love ideas that twist what they already know, so a crossover provides twice (or more if the crossover pulls from more than two original works) the opportunity for that sort of "old idea in a new dress" twist. It's an expansion on the "what if" game.
posted by ashirys at 8:16 AM on June 14, 2010
As far as motivation goes, I think crossovers in general are popular for much the same reason that fanfic itself is: you're taking characters who are familiar and putting them into new circumstances. See the popularity of mash-ups for a similar idea. People love ideas that twist what they already know, so a crossover provides twice (or more if the crossover pulls from more than two original works) the opportunity for that sort of "old idea in a new dress" twist. It's an expansion on the "what if" game.
posted by ashirys at 8:16 AM on June 14, 2010
#2: I'm not sure it's meaningful to look for a deep explanation here. People like telling and reading stories about the characters and settings that have made an impression on our culture. Sometimes, these stories will involve characters from disparate origins.
#3: I'd go with Sherlock Holmes (if we're excluding mythological figures as coming from shared universes)
#4: Recognizability and archetypicality.
posted by Zed at 9:42 AM on June 14, 2010
#3: I'd go with Sherlock Holmes (if we're excluding mythological figures as coming from shared universes)
#4: Recognizability and archetypicality.
posted by Zed at 9:42 AM on June 14, 2010
While this doesn't answer any of your questions, I would be remiss if I didn't plug one of the ultimate "crossover" novels, Silverlock (published in 1949) by John Myers Myers.
posted by JaredSeth at 11:50 AM on June 14, 2010
posted by JaredSeth at 11:50 AM on June 14, 2010
Definitely Holmes.
There's an entire anthology just dedicated to Holmes/Cthulhu crossovers.
posted by the latin mouse at 1:36 PM on June 22, 2010
There's an entire anthology just dedicated to Holmes/Cthulhu crossovers.
posted by the latin mouse at 1:36 PM on June 22, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by k8t at 7:27 PM on June 13, 2010