Is my fetish dangerous?
June 12, 2010 12:35 PM Subscribe
I'm into heavier women, ranging from merely chubby going as far as morbid obesity. What are the health risks of being in each weight group, ranging from "overweight" to "morbidly obese?"
Furthermore, which of those health risks are caused by the diet common among people who weigh more, and which ones are intrinsically caused by having excess weight? Preferably with concrete studies to back them up when possible?
I ask, because while discussing my preference with another online community via a sockpuppet, I got some grief from people about how I could expect to spend a lot of time at the hospital for the health issues caused by obesity. I know that I shouldn't take strangers on the internet that seriously, but I'm used to expecting the truth to be somewhere in the middle. We have the fat acceptance movement acting like extra weight is harmless, while some other people act like being overweight is as dangerous as working with asbestos.
I'm not into feederism or anything, but I'm worried that were I dating a woman who was at an unhealthy weight and who knew I was attracted to that weight would discourage her from changing her lifestyle. If it can lead to serious health problems, I wouldn't want that on my conscience. I don't want to encourage harm for the people I love.
Throwaway Gmail: Obesityrisks@gmail.com
Furthermore, which of those health risks are caused by the diet common among people who weigh more, and which ones are intrinsically caused by having excess weight? Preferably with concrete studies to back them up when possible?
I ask, because while discussing my preference with another online community via a sockpuppet, I got some grief from people about how I could expect to spend a lot of time at the hospital for the health issues caused by obesity. I know that I shouldn't take strangers on the internet that seriously, but I'm used to expecting the truth to be somewhere in the middle. We have the fat acceptance movement acting like extra weight is harmless, while some other people act like being overweight is as dangerous as working with asbestos.
I'm not into feederism or anything, but I'm worried that were I dating a woman who was at an unhealthy weight and who knew I was attracted to that weight would discourage her from changing her lifestyle. If it can lead to serious health problems, I wouldn't want that on my conscience. I don't want to encourage harm for the people I love.
Throwaway Gmail: Obesityrisks@gmail.com
I googled "life expectancy obesity morbidity" and there is an overwhelming volume of information on the topic, much of it translated into easy to read charts and tables. Yes, obesity substantially increases morbidity and mortality. As age and weight increases so do the health problems associated with obesity--I think it is very reasonable to speculate that after age 40 one can plan on spending more time in physician offices, increased hospital days, limitations on daily activity, missed work, decreased mobility, increased depression, managing diabetes and hypertension, etc. The "fat acceptance movement" may be very beneficial for self acceptance but it does not effect in the least the facts or the pathology associated with obesity as weight and age increase. If your sexual preference directly or indirectly supports the partners obesity then you are a partner in the obesity and share some of the responsibility for the health consequences. However,as you know, the ultimate responsibility is your partners. Your fetish is perfectly acceptable but so are some of the consequences.
posted by rmhsinc at 1:00 PM on June 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by rmhsinc at 1:00 PM on June 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
BTW, bearetteis is absolutely right for persons who are mild and moderately overweight. Exercise and other habits ( smoking, drugs. alcohol ) are very important but once you move into clinical obesity one is fighting an up hill battle against substantially increased risks to health.
posted by rmhsinc at 1:08 PM on June 12, 2010
posted by rmhsinc at 1:08 PM on June 12, 2010
I think that all of those categories will involve an increased risk of type 2 diabetes. Severe cases can have serious complications but in general it's pretty treatable.
And I'll just say that successfully avoiding any health problems in dotage, based on trying to estimate and select healthiness at the time you're dating, seems to me like it might be a long shot. I would think that no matter how much effort you put into it there's still a good chance that fifty years from now you'd find that your loved one is in poor health - possibly due to causes you are party to - and that some of the women you passed on based on your estimated future projections might be just fine.
posted by XMLicious at 1:09 PM on June 12, 2010
And I'll just say that successfully avoiding any health problems in dotage, based on trying to estimate and select healthiness at the time you're dating, seems to me like it might be a long shot. I would think that no matter how much effort you put into it there's still a good chance that fifty years from now you'd find that your loved one is in poor health - possibly due to causes you are party to - and that some of the women you passed on based on your estimated future projections might be just fine.
posted by XMLicious at 1:09 PM on June 12, 2010
(And related to that - anecdotally, the handful of women I know of who are older and morbidly obese, if I'm recalling correctly were all of a normal weight at the time when they met their husbands. Of course, it seems quite possible that anyone who was already morbidly obese when they were younger died and never got to the point of being older.)
posted by XMLicious at 1:15 PM on June 12, 2010
posted by XMLicious at 1:15 PM on June 12, 2010
Well, there's "obesity because she keeps over-eating high-fat foods and sodas and never leaves the couch" and then there's "obesity despite regular exercise and otherwise-healthy living, probably due to genetic luck". If her size is really important to you, then perhaps you should try to date women who are just naturally genetically bigger but who otherwise try to take care of themselves and their health (i.e. don't smoke, eat pretty sensible foods, don't binge-eat), rather than the ones who are obese due to untreated depression or mental health issues (i.e. overeating in order to numb emotions) or gross apathy or denial about their own health.
posted by Asparagirl at 1:38 PM on June 12, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by Asparagirl at 1:38 PM on June 12, 2010 [5 favorites]
Also consider the fact that if you ever want to reproduce with an obese woman (I'm assuming you are male), both the mother and the child will be at high risk for health problems, including an increased risk for birth defects.
Furthermore, one out of four children born to obese mothers are obese at age four. Almost 50% of them are overweight at age 11. Is that something you're willing to put up with (and, more importantly, put another human being through)?
posted by halogen at 1:40 PM on June 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
Furthermore, one out of four children born to obese mothers are obese at age four. Almost 50% of them are overweight at age 11. Is that something you're willing to put up with (and, more importantly, put another human being through)?
posted by halogen at 1:40 PM on June 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
Just my two cents. I am 34 years old, 5'4" and weigh 225. This makes me obese but maybe not morbidly obese. I haven't had any more health problems than my thinner peers, even when I was about 30 pounds heavier. Perhaps a few medical issues have been caused by my weight over my lifetime but I am not on any medication for anything and had a clean bill of health at my last check-up. I eat more than I should but my weight was gained during high school and I haven't been able to shed it despite eating mostly alright and getting a decent amount of exercise.
I do notice that many doctors tend to blame any medical complaint on my weight so I can understand why people would get the impression that being fat is a death-sentence. I've had doctors try to pass off a stuffed up ear canal and a torn finger tendon on my weight. Aside from low self-esteem, probably stemming from people judging me because I am fat, I am your average, healthy middle-age woman. As a matter-of-fact, I am taking a walk up the mountain as soon as it stops raining for the second time this week and I know a lot of skinny people who would have a hard time keeping up with me, despite my carrying 70 extra pounds up the trail.
posted by Foam Pants at 2:09 PM on June 12, 2010 [17 favorites]
I do notice that many doctors tend to blame any medical complaint on my weight so I can understand why people would get the impression that being fat is a death-sentence. I've had doctors try to pass off a stuffed up ear canal and a torn finger tendon on my weight. Aside from low self-esteem, probably stemming from people judging me because I am fat, I am your average, healthy middle-age woman. As a matter-of-fact, I am taking a walk up the mountain as soon as it stops raining for the second time this week and I know a lot of skinny people who would have a hard time keeping up with me, despite my carrying 70 extra pounds up the trail.
posted by Foam Pants at 2:09 PM on June 12, 2010 [17 favorites]
I'm worried that were I dating a woman who was at an unhealthy weight and who knew I was attracted to that weight would discourage her from changing her lifestyle
I fear there are some misunderstandings going on here.
1) Lifestyle changes sometimes do but often don't help solving weight issues, no matter how hard people try. (on preview: what Asparagirl says)
2) You seem to overrate the importance of a partner's encouragement or discouragement in actually solving weight issues. If encouragement is being asked for and you don't give it, you may have to blame yourself for being non-supportive as a partner; that's got little to do with weight.
3) Problem here seems to be that you're talking about theoretical partners making theoretical decisions that, you fear, would theoretically turn you off. If you'd think real persons, it could work out like this: even if you were primarily attracted to someone "who knew that you were attracted to [whatever] weight", if said someone succeeds in changing that weight for reasons of her health, looks, or happiness, you'd still love that person. (If that's not the case, there's something for you to seriously re-consider)
4) Persons very dear to me battle with losing weight. I see that they often are unhappy about the situation. I'd see the possibility of such prolonged unhappiness as a great health risk.
posted by Namlit at 2:23 PM on June 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
I fear there are some misunderstandings going on here.
1) Lifestyle changes sometimes do but often don't help solving weight issues, no matter how hard people try. (on preview: what Asparagirl says)
2) You seem to overrate the importance of a partner's encouragement or discouragement in actually solving weight issues. If encouragement is being asked for and you don't give it, you may have to blame yourself for being non-supportive as a partner; that's got little to do with weight.
3) Problem here seems to be that you're talking about theoretical partners making theoretical decisions that, you fear, would theoretically turn you off. If you'd think real persons, it could work out like this: even if you were primarily attracted to someone "who knew that you were attracted to [whatever] weight", if said someone succeeds in changing that weight for reasons of her health, looks, or happiness, you'd still love that person. (If that's not the case, there's something for you to seriously re-consider)
4) Persons very dear to me battle with losing weight. I see that they often are unhappy about the situation. I'd see the possibility of such prolonged unhappiness as a great health risk.
posted by Namlit at 2:23 PM on June 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
As a formerly morbidly obese person, it is bad (115 lbs over "normal"). I had trouble moving and breathing. I know the drill about being healthy and fat, and thin and unhealthy. I am now normal weight, I can move lithely, breath deeply, and feel much better. The fat was literally killing me. For those of you who are fat and healthy, more power to you.
posted by fifilaru at 2:25 PM on June 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by fifilaru at 2:25 PM on June 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
Let me approach this from the other side of the coin.
I'm a male who is a good deal overweight. I'm not "circus fat," but I'm definitely in the "obese" BMI range and look it. My father hit 450 lbs before having life-saving gastric bypass that brought him down to 200 lbs (even at 6'4", 450 lbs was absurdly large) and I watched him visit the hospital for everything from bottomed out potassium (paralyzing him temporarily), blood pressure issues, insanely low blood pressure and the beginnings of adult-onset diabetes, and, well, appendicitis (probably not his weight's fault, but co-morbidities are funny that way).
My current girlfriend likes my a bit bigger. It's totally counter to everything I've grown up believing and expecting, and while I've dated girls before who didn't mind that I was a bit overweight, she's actually commented that I was "too skinny" in a photo of me when I was at 205 lbs. (I'm about 6'2".) She wants me to be healthy, but her general attitude has definitely made me more lax about proactively trying to lose weight.
It's a bit of a relief from an over-arching self-esteem standpoint, though I'm still frustrated that I'm fat, and I don't think a winning strategy is to date someone who threatens to leave if you don't lose weight. But it definitely affects your incentive to change and if you make it sound as if you'll lose interest if they lose weight, they might stay in an unhealthy range.
Obesity, depending on the severity, is basically guaranteed to increase morbidity rates and health problems, in some manner or another. The degree to which it impacts those things may vary depending on who you ask, but no matter what, your body has to work harder if you're fatter. Case closed. My dad's diabetes and high blood pressure literally disappeared within 3 months of losing the weight from the surgery. It was incredible to watch.
Loving someone or being attracted to them BECAUSE they're fat and encouraging them (even indirectly) to stay fat or become fatter may represent what some people consider to be a moral gray area. Loving someone who's fat because it doesn't bother you one way or another, and you like a little extra meat on their bones is just fine. You should both strive to be healthier and never give her the wrong incentive or impression that you'll be less attracted to her if she gets skinny or loses weight. In any event, she probably won't change all of a sudden, but you don't want to be outright responsible for keeping someone in an unhealthy state, or encouraging them to make it worse.
posted by disillusioned at 2:34 PM on June 12, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm a male who is a good deal overweight. I'm not "circus fat," but I'm definitely in the "obese" BMI range and look it. My father hit 450 lbs before having life-saving gastric bypass that brought him down to 200 lbs (even at 6'4", 450 lbs was absurdly large) and I watched him visit the hospital for everything from bottomed out potassium (paralyzing him temporarily), blood pressure issues, insanely low blood pressure and the beginnings of adult-onset diabetes, and, well, appendicitis (probably not his weight's fault, but co-morbidities are funny that way).
My current girlfriend likes my a bit bigger. It's totally counter to everything I've grown up believing and expecting, and while I've dated girls before who didn't mind that I was a bit overweight, she's actually commented that I was "too skinny" in a photo of me when I was at 205 lbs. (I'm about 6'2".) She wants me to be healthy, but her general attitude has definitely made me more lax about proactively trying to lose weight.
It's a bit of a relief from an over-arching self-esteem standpoint, though I'm still frustrated that I'm fat, and I don't think a winning strategy is to date someone who threatens to leave if you don't lose weight. But it definitely affects your incentive to change and if you make it sound as if you'll lose interest if they lose weight, they might stay in an unhealthy range.
Obesity, depending on the severity, is basically guaranteed to increase morbidity rates and health problems, in some manner or another. The degree to which it impacts those things may vary depending on who you ask, but no matter what, your body has to work harder if you're fatter. Case closed. My dad's diabetes and high blood pressure literally disappeared within 3 months of losing the weight from the surgery. It was incredible to watch.
Loving someone or being attracted to them BECAUSE they're fat and encouraging them (even indirectly) to stay fat or become fatter may represent what some people consider to be a moral gray area. Loving someone who's fat because it doesn't bother you one way or another, and you like a little extra meat on their bones is just fine. You should both strive to be healthier and never give her the wrong incentive or impression that you'll be less attracted to her if she gets skinny or loses weight. In any event, she probably won't change all of a sudden, but you don't want to be outright responsible for keeping someone in an unhealthy state, or encouraging them to make it worse.
posted by disillusioned at 2:34 PM on June 12, 2010 [3 favorites]
I personally don't know that I could separate the fact that I was IN LOVE with someone from the fact that they may die early, and therefore I shouldn't be with them.
All of us can suffer horribly or die early for any number of reasons, regardless of health (think car accident, or cancer). Are you going to deny yourself a loving relationship because your potential partner might be hit by a car someday?
It's love, man. Go and be loving!
posted by wwartorff at 3:44 PM on June 12, 2010
All of us can suffer horribly or die early for any number of reasons, regardless of health (think car accident, or cancer). Are you going to deny yourself a loving relationship because your potential partner might be hit by a car someday?
It's love, man. Go and be loving!
posted by wwartorff at 3:44 PM on June 12, 2010
This Skeptical Inquirer article on the obesity epidemic discusses some of the opposing view points on obesity and health, and cites several studies.
posted by bookish at 3:49 PM on June 12, 2010
posted by bookish at 3:49 PM on June 12, 2010
Honestly, it is not difficult to find a huge amount of information about the health risks of being overweight or obese, from reliable sources including government health agencies and well-respected medical institutions. I've linked to a few below, with their lists of the health risks associated with being overweight.
Regarding your question of which of these issues are caused by the actual overweightness, vs. which are caused by the kinds of diet that can lead to being overweight: this is a really difficult thing to tease apart.
For instance, high-sugar diets make type 2 diabetes more likely to occur because of overworking the cells that make insulin, but something about carrying excess fat also seems to make insulin receptors out in the body less sensitive. So it's a combination of diet and actual body fat that contribute to developing this disease.
The risk for heart attack is higher in overweight people. This is partially because a high-fat diet (which can lead to obesity) contributes to atherosclerotic plaques that can clog the coronary arteries. But heart attack risk is also higher in overweight people because the heart is under stress, which means it can't recover well from this lack of oxygen caused by clogged arteries. Extra fat requires extra blood vessels, so the heart has to pump more blood through more length of "pipe," so to speak. Extra weight also means the leg muscles have to work harder to support the body, so they require more oxygen and nutrients (that is, more blood flow) to do the job. Again, this puts stress on the heart. So like type-2 diabetes, it's not a question of whether the diet or the weight leads to this condition, it's a matter of them BOTH playing a part.
Now, a few links with more info, and a combined list from them:
- the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases: Do You Know the Health Risks of Being Overweight?: Being overweight increases a person's risks for:
* type 2 diabetes
* coronary heart disease and stroke
* metabolic syndrome
* certain types of cancer
* sleep apnea
* osteoarthritis
* gallbladder disease
* fatty liver disease
* pregnancy complications
- The National Heart Lung and Blood Institute: What Are the Health Risks of Overweight and Obesity?: "Being overweight or obese isn't a cosmetic problem. It greatly raises the risk in adults for many diseases and conditions." Those listed include:
- coronary heart disease
- high blood pressure [which increases the risk of heart attack, stroke, and peripheral artery disease]
- stroke
- type 2 diabetes
- cancer
- osteoarthritis
- sleep apnea
- infertility in women
- gallstones
According to the Mayo Clinic's Obesity Complications webpage, obesity is a risk factor for:
* Blood (fat) lipid abnormalities
* Cancer, including cancer of the uterus, cervix, ovaries, breast, colon, rectum and prostate
* Depression
* Gallbladder disease
* Gynecological problems, such as infertility and irregular periods
* Heart disease
* High blood pressure
* Metabolic syndrome
* Nonalcoholic fatty liver disease
* Osteoarthritis
* Skin problems, such as intertrigo and impaired wound healing
* Sleep apnea
* Stroke
* Type 2 diabetes
The Mayo Clinic (on the same webpage) also notes psychosocial impacts of obesity:
When you're obese, your overall quality of life may be lower, too. You may not be able to get around or to perform normal daily activities as well as you'd like. You may have trouble participating in family activities. You may avoid public places. You may even encounter discrimination.
Other issues that may affect your quality of life include:
* Depression
* Disability
* Physical discomfort
* Sexual problems
* Shame
* Social isolation
None of this is to say that overweight people should be ostracized or criticized, or that you shouldn't date them or find them attractive. However, when you say "If it can lead to serious health problems, I wouldn't want that on my conscience.", the honest truth is that it CAN and DOES lead to serious health problems, up to and including early death. Then again, so can liposuction, or fad diets, or tanning beds, or any of a huge number of other things people do to be attractive to their partners. It's up to you what you think of all of that.
posted by vytae at 6:39 PM on June 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
Regarding your question of which of these issues are caused by the actual overweightness, vs. which are caused by the kinds of diet that can lead to being overweight: this is a really difficult thing to tease apart.
For instance, high-sugar diets make type 2 diabetes more likely to occur because of overworking the cells that make insulin, but something about carrying excess fat also seems to make insulin receptors out in the body less sensitive. So it's a combination of diet and actual body fat that contribute to developing this disease.
The risk for heart attack is higher in overweight people. This is partially because a high-fat diet (which can lead to obesity) contributes to atherosclerotic plaques that can clog the coronary arteries. But heart attack risk is also higher in overweight people because the heart is under stress, which means it can't recover well from this lack of oxygen caused by clogged arteries. Extra fat requires extra blood vessels, so the heart has to pump more blood through more length of "pipe," so to speak. Extra weight also means the leg muscles have to work harder to support the body, so they require more oxygen and nutrients (that is, more blood flow) to do the job. Again, this puts stress on the heart. So like type-2 diabetes, it's not a question of whether the diet or the weight leads to this condition, it's a matter of them BOTH playing a part.
Now, a few links with more info, and a combined list from them:
- the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases: Do You Know the Health Risks of Being Overweight?: Being overweight increases a person's risks for:
* type 2 diabetes
* coronary heart disease and stroke
* metabolic syndrome
* certain types of cancer
* sleep apnea
* osteoarthritis
* gallbladder disease
* fatty liver disease
* pregnancy complications
- The National Heart Lung and Blood Institute: What Are the Health Risks of Overweight and Obesity?: "Being overweight or obese isn't a cosmetic problem. It greatly raises the risk in adults for many diseases and conditions." Those listed include:
- coronary heart disease
- high blood pressure [which increases the risk of heart attack, stroke, and peripheral artery disease]
- stroke
- type 2 diabetes
- cancer
- osteoarthritis
- sleep apnea
- infertility in women
- gallstones
According to the Mayo Clinic's Obesity Complications webpage, obesity is a risk factor for:
* Blood (fat) lipid abnormalities
* Cancer, including cancer of the uterus, cervix, ovaries, breast, colon, rectum and prostate
* Depression
* Gallbladder disease
* Gynecological problems, such as infertility and irregular periods
* Heart disease
* High blood pressure
* Metabolic syndrome
* Nonalcoholic fatty liver disease
* Osteoarthritis
* Skin problems, such as intertrigo and impaired wound healing
* Sleep apnea
* Stroke
* Type 2 diabetes
The Mayo Clinic (on the same webpage) also notes psychosocial impacts of obesity:
When you're obese, your overall quality of life may be lower, too. You may not be able to get around or to perform normal daily activities as well as you'd like. You may have trouble participating in family activities. You may avoid public places. You may even encounter discrimination.
Other issues that may affect your quality of life include:
* Depression
* Disability
* Physical discomfort
* Sexual problems
* Shame
* Social isolation
None of this is to say that overweight people should be ostracized or criticized, or that you shouldn't date them or find them attractive. However, when you say "If it can lead to serious health problems, I wouldn't want that on my conscience.", the honest truth is that it CAN and DOES lead to serious health problems, up to and including early death. Then again, so can liposuction, or fad diets, or tanning beds, or any of a huge number of other things people do to be attractive to their partners. It's up to you what you think of all of that.
posted by vytae at 6:39 PM on June 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
Some people are skinny and unhealthy, some people are fat and healthy, some skinny people are healthy, and some fat people are unhealthy.
Personally, I fall into the 'fat and unhealthy' category, because I have really crappy bones, and they get cranky when my weight goes above 70kg (~155lb, 5'4"). I have friends who are about twice that, are happy, healthy, and fit, and have many fewer health problems. I also have very ill, very slender friends. Hell, when I'm slender, I tend to be ill *anyway* - although it tends to be different problems from when I am fat.
If you want a partner that's healthy, pick someone that's healthy, with a family history of health. Yes, risks rise with weight, but risks are not certain. Of course, that will substantially reduce your dating pool.
That's physically. There's also the mental aspects. Many fat people are insecure, have low self-esteem, and there are fairly strong links between body image and depression. Unsurprisingly, a lot of people don't deal well with the silent judging looks they get if they happen to be visibly overweight and have the temerity to actually eat in public. Especially if it's anything that could be remotely construed as junk food. Even if it's something as innocent as a tub of full-fat yoghurt. That sort of judgement (which often isn't silent, either) can be a terrible load. Some people have the strength of self to deal with it, some don't. That's also something to consider.
I'm sorry I don't have links for you, this is just anecdata from personal experience.
posted by ysabet at 7:22 PM on June 12, 2010
Personally, I fall into the 'fat and unhealthy' category, because I have really crappy bones, and they get cranky when my weight goes above 70kg (~155lb, 5'4"). I have friends who are about twice that, are happy, healthy, and fit, and have many fewer health problems. I also have very ill, very slender friends. Hell, when I'm slender, I tend to be ill *anyway* - although it tends to be different problems from when I am fat.
If you want a partner that's healthy, pick someone that's healthy, with a family history of health. Yes, risks rise with weight, but risks are not certain. Of course, that will substantially reduce your dating pool.
That's physically. There's also the mental aspects. Many fat people are insecure, have low self-esteem, and there are fairly strong links between body image and depression. Unsurprisingly, a lot of people don't deal well with the silent judging looks they get if they happen to be visibly overweight and have the temerity to actually eat in public. Especially if it's anything that could be remotely construed as junk food. Even if it's something as innocent as a tub of full-fat yoghurt. That sort of judgement (which often isn't silent, either) can be a terrible load. Some people have the strength of self to deal with it, some don't. That's also something to consider.
I'm sorry I don't have links for you, this is just anecdata from personal experience.
posted by ysabet at 7:22 PM on June 12, 2010
"I'm worried that were I dating a woman who was at an unhealthy weight and who knew I was attracted to that weight would discourage her from changing her lifestyle."
This assumes that all overweight women want to be thin. This isn't the case.
It irks me that the discussions on this issue generally conclude that fat women are a bad relationship risk and therefore are best left alone until they are thin enough to be considered worthy of love and affection. Everyone deserves to be loved for who they are, faults and all. There are few enough men who can look past, let alone appreciate, a larger woman. Don't let others' opinions keep you from what could be a fulfilling relationship for you and your partner. If you aren't forcing them to eat, encouraging them to gain weight, or threatening to leave if they lose weight, then I say love who you love and don't listen to the critics. Also the women you date are responsible for their own health. If you pick a woman with a strong sense of self, your opinion of her weight shouldn't factor into her personal health decisions.
I do think you ought to consider what your response would be if someone you loved deeply decided for health or aesthetic reasons to lose weight - is that a deal breaker for you? If so, that is a discussion you need to share early in the relationship so she is fully informed.
posted by cecic at 9:23 PM on June 12, 2010 [7 favorites]
This assumes that all overweight women want to be thin. This isn't the case.
It irks me that the discussions on this issue generally conclude that fat women are a bad relationship risk and therefore are best left alone until they are thin enough to be considered worthy of love and affection. Everyone deserves to be loved for who they are, faults and all. There are few enough men who can look past, let alone appreciate, a larger woman. Don't let others' opinions keep you from what could be a fulfilling relationship for you and your partner. If you aren't forcing them to eat, encouraging them to gain weight, or threatening to leave if they lose weight, then I say love who you love and don't listen to the critics. Also the women you date are responsible for their own health. If you pick a woman with a strong sense of self, your opinion of her weight shouldn't factor into her personal health decisions.
I do think you ought to consider what your response would be if someone you loved deeply decided for health or aesthetic reasons to lose weight - is that a deal breaker for you? If so, that is a discussion you need to share early in the relationship so she is fully informed.
posted by cecic at 9:23 PM on June 12, 2010 [7 favorites]
For what it's worth, some women on both sides of my family are obese but for some reason, have really good bloodwork -- and they've been obese for decades and are solidly nearing the end of middle age. Weight is a weird thing that way. It can be a health problem, in that the weight itself can cause joint issues and whatnot, or it can be a health problem because it's a symptom of something else like poor diet -- and for other women in my family, it's one or both of these things -- but some women are just fat even if they eat alright and exercise a ton.
Women have some weird discrepancies when it comes to weight and cholesterol and such, as compared to men. Some of it is touched upon briefly in Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes -- I wish I had my copy nearby but the gist of what I remember is that women, for whatever reason, can get fat but sometimes not show other problems. That might be a bit much to read for info on this subject in particular unless you're interested in dietary science otherwise, though, because it really is just a few short mentions here and there.
Anyway, if you date a fat woman, you're not going to have any control over whether she remains fat or not. If you're telling her she's beautiful, that's cool. Just don't discourage her from losing weight if she feels like trying -- and she might not! You can't do a whole lot wrong here unless you start making her feel bad for getting thinner. My aunt married a guy that's into obese women and he's been really supportive of her weight loss efforts, even paid for her lap band, because that's what she wanted and he could afford it. The way I see it, if you're supportive of her, she wins either way -- and that's nice, because it's hard for a fat girl to "win" with a lot of guys unless she gets thinner, which may not be something she wants to do or even CAN do.
posted by Nattie at 9:45 PM on June 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
Women have some weird discrepancies when it comes to weight and cholesterol and such, as compared to men. Some of it is touched upon briefly in Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes -- I wish I had my copy nearby but the gist of what I remember is that women, for whatever reason, can get fat but sometimes not show other problems. That might be a bit much to read for info on this subject in particular unless you're interested in dietary science otherwise, though, because it really is just a few short mentions here and there.
Anyway, if you date a fat woman, you're not going to have any control over whether she remains fat or not. If you're telling her she's beautiful, that's cool. Just don't discourage her from losing weight if she feels like trying -- and she might not! You can't do a whole lot wrong here unless you start making her feel bad for getting thinner. My aunt married a guy that's into obese women and he's been really supportive of her weight loss efforts, even paid for her lap band, because that's what she wanted and he could afford it. The way I see it, if you're supportive of her, she wins either way -- and that's nice, because it's hard for a fat girl to "win" with a lot of guys unless she gets thinner, which may not be something she wants to do or even CAN do.
posted by Nattie at 9:45 PM on June 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
As a "fat woman" (5'4, vary between 205-230 and 43 years old) I don't think my husband's opinion of my looks has any bearing at all on my weight. He met me when I was this size and during our marriage I've been heavier and I've been lighter, and he had nothing to do with it. When I've been skinnier I didn't feel compelled to gain weight to keep his attention and when I was heavier I didn't feel I needed to lose weight to please him. He just likes me for me-not to say he isn't attracted to me (it's very obvious that he is) but when he looks at me he doesn't see big boobs and a big butt. He sees me as a complete person. My eating and exercise habits have absolutely nothing to do with him. So, you can get that off your conscience.
As far as health issues go-I eat pretty much what I want to and I don't have a set exercise routine. I eat some healthy things and sometimes I eat crap. I play on the Wii and go outside with my son and swim, but I don't zumba or go to a gym. My bloodwork is all within normal limits, I don't have problems walking (or even running shorter distances), I can breathe easily and aside from general aging issues I'm in good health. My weight hasn't hindered me.
Btw, as far as getting/staying pregnant and having a higher risk of birth defects; I have 4 children, got pregnant easily with them (except the last, but it had nothing to do with weight and was still easier than average) and had no complications.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:19 AM on June 13, 2010
As far as health issues go-I eat pretty much what I want to and I don't have a set exercise routine. I eat some healthy things and sometimes I eat crap. I play on the Wii and go outside with my son and swim, but I don't zumba or go to a gym. My bloodwork is all within normal limits, I don't have problems walking (or even running shorter distances), I can breathe easily and aside from general aging issues I'm in good health. My weight hasn't hindered me.
Btw, as far as getting/staying pregnant and having a higher risk of birth defects; I have 4 children, got pregnant easily with them (except the last, but it had nothing to do with weight and was still easier than average) and had no complications.
posted by hollygoheavy at 7:19 AM on June 13, 2010
First off, let's clarify attraction vs. fetish. Your title says fetish, but being into women "ranging from merely chubby going as far as morbid obesity" isn't exactly a fetish. It's an attraction, the way that some people prefer blondes or Australians. A fetish would be a sexual attraction only to fat (or specifically to a fat body part) without regards to the person it is attached to. The fact that you are already hypothetically concerned about a partner's health leads me to believe that you are looking for a relationship rather than a merely sexual experience. So let's call it an attraction (or preference) and not a fetish.
So you're attracted to fat women. Let's say for a minute that you decide it's unconscionable to date a fat woman because of the "obesity epidemic" and the subsequent health apocalypse that humanity is teetering on the brink of. What are your going to do about it? Deny your attraction forever? Find a nice "healthy" thin woman to date, but secretly whack off to fat porn? Look for fat hook-ups on Craigslist? This may sound like a joke, but I've met plenty of guys like this. In-the-closet chubby chasers who felt strongly (usually because of friends and family) that they couldn't be in a relationship with a fat woman because it wasn't socially acceptable. So they felt perfectly justified cheating on their wives, or keeping their fat girlfriends secret. Dude, don't be that guy.
There are hundreds of studies that will say bad things about the health outcomes of fat folk. However, there is a growing (although often ridiculed) movement that proposes those studies may be sensationalized, overblown, or misrepresented by a medical establishment and popular culture that has declared war on fat folks. Specifically, many of those studies are funded my companies or institutions that have a vested interest in people spending money to lose weight (the weight loss industry and big pharma). If you want some counterpoints to the current hysteria that fat people are gonna die die die, check out the writings of Paul Campos, specifically The Obesity Myth, and Junkfood Science a blog written by a nurse who deconstructs some of the studies and findings about fat health. There are many more resources out there, but these are a couple of starting places.
I am NOT denying that there are some correlations between fatness and heath issues. But I do get annoyed that fat is considered a signifier for the sum total of peoples' overall health. Health is a relative thing, that it is largely controlled by the luck of the draw. Sure, people have some degree of control, but we make choices all the freaking time that endanger our health.
For instance, over 40,000 people die in car wrecks every year and 2.9 million are injured, yet people continue to drive cars everyday. We call it a necessity for everyday living... a condition of the modern world. However, I insist that if people REALLY cared about their health, they would stop this car madness and quit risking their lives on a daily basis. But that would be impractical, you say, and require a radical lifestyle change that most people are not willing to commit to! And I counter that you just don't have the will power to change, and you are living in denial about your chances of dying in a car wreck. After all, I was a car owner and driver from ages 16 to 28. I commuted as much as 80 miles a day. But then I got serious about my health, sold my car, and moved to a city where I could rely walk or rely on public transportation. If I can do it, anyone can do it! Sure, I fall off the wagon now and then... I take a cab or ride a friend's car. But I refuse to go back to my daily car riding habits. Therefore, I am a healthier person... right?
I understand your concern about not wanting to get roped into a relationship with a person with many health problems. But I just want you to consider all the things that make up health. Is she fat? Does she drink? Does she smoke? Did her mother have breast cancer? Was she ever exposed radon? Does she text while driving?
In my completely unscientific, yet qualified as a life-long fatty, opinion, here is what I would look at if I were trying to date a fit fat person:
1) Someone whose weight been stable for a long period of time: Unexplained weight gain and weight loss are often indicators of health issues.
2)Someone who is not dieting or taking other risky weight loss measures like bypass or lap band: More and more studies are showing that frequent dieting and/or regaining weight is very damaging to the body, more that just staying at a stable weight. The long term morbidity and mortality of weight loss procedures is being understood better everyday, with pretty shocking outcomes.
3)Someone who is active and eats a balanced diet: This goes for pretty much anyone, fat or thin.
4). Someone who self-identifies as fat, and is not ashamed of it: There is a high correlation between depression and fatness. Being fat in our society takes a huge mental toll- it can be difficult to deal with the continual onslaught of messages that you ugly, stupid, wreckless, and a burden to society. There are tons of self-hating fat folk out there, and I think that angst can cause lots of mental distress and possibly illness. Find someone who is subverting these messages, and living her best, happiest life at whatever size she may be.
5). Someone who can advocate for herself: This is often related to number 4. Fat people often get substandard medical care because of substantial (self-reported) bias in the healthcare industry. If a person is fat, and is trying to be proactive about their health, they will often encounter resistant medical personnel. Everything gets blamed on fat, so other underlying problems get missed, and diagnosis is delayed. Then treatment is more involved and more expensive (and voilà, you have statistics about how much more health care fat people need and cost). This can even happen with doctors who you like and trust (I speak deeply from experience). You want to find a partner who will be vocal about her health care needs, and not back down when she thinks something is wrong. It's also common for fat people to avoid the doctor entirely because of the shame and humiliation they may experience at the hands of medical professionals, which is unfortunate. Find someone who takes care of the usual medical routines: yearly check-ups, gyno, dentist.
6). Someone with good health insurance. Again, I would state this is important for anyone, fat or thin. People who don't have good, comprehensive medical insurance are more likely to not have routine medical care, and to delay diagnosis and treatment of problems. And since a fat person may need to be particularly assertive in managing their health care, this may mean second opinions and multiple doctors. You don't want cost to stand in the way. Also, if a fat person doesn't have health insurance through an employer or other group plan, it's very likely that they won't be able to get it at all.
And finally, it's important for you to own your attraction, and to stick up for any woman that you choose to date. While you don't have to be a radical, size-acceptance activist, you do need to be a supportive partner and advocate. Life is hard enough for a self-accepting fat person without worrying that the people we love the most don't have our backs.
posted by kimdog at 7:25 AM on June 13, 2010 [4 favorites]
So you're attracted to fat women. Let's say for a minute that you decide it's unconscionable to date a fat woman because of the "obesity epidemic" and the subsequent health apocalypse that humanity is teetering on the brink of. What are your going to do about it? Deny your attraction forever? Find a nice "healthy" thin woman to date, but secretly whack off to fat porn? Look for fat hook-ups on Craigslist? This may sound like a joke, but I've met plenty of guys like this. In-the-closet chubby chasers who felt strongly (usually because of friends and family) that they couldn't be in a relationship with a fat woman because it wasn't socially acceptable. So they felt perfectly justified cheating on their wives, or keeping their fat girlfriends secret. Dude, don't be that guy.
There are hundreds of studies that will say bad things about the health outcomes of fat folk. However, there is a growing (although often ridiculed) movement that proposes those studies may be sensationalized, overblown, or misrepresented by a medical establishment and popular culture that has declared war on fat folks. Specifically, many of those studies are funded my companies or institutions that have a vested interest in people spending money to lose weight (the weight loss industry and big pharma). If you want some counterpoints to the current hysteria that fat people are gonna die die die, check out the writings of Paul Campos, specifically The Obesity Myth, and Junkfood Science a blog written by a nurse who deconstructs some of the studies and findings about fat health. There are many more resources out there, but these are a couple of starting places.
I am NOT denying that there are some correlations between fatness and heath issues. But I do get annoyed that fat is considered a signifier for the sum total of peoples' overall health. Health is a relative thing, that it is largely controlled by the luck of the draw. Sure, people have some degree of control, but we make choices all the freaking time that endanger our health.
For instance, over 40,000 people die in car wrecks every year and 2.9 million are injured, yet people continue to drive cars everyday. We call it a necessity for everyday living... a condition of the modern world. However, I insist that if people REALLY cared about their health, they would stop this car madness and quit risking their lives on a daily basis. But that would be impractical, you say, and require a radical lifestyle change that most people are not willing to commit to! And I counter that you just don't have the will power to change, and you are living in denial about your chances of dying in a car wreck. After all, I was a car owner and driver from ages 16 to 28. I commuted as much as 80 miles a day. But then I got serious about my health, sold my car, and moved to a city where I could rely walk or rely on public transportation. If I can do it, anyone can do it! Sure, I fall off the wagon now and then... I take a cab or ride a friend's car. But I refuse to go back to my daily car riding habits. Therefore, I am a healthier person... right?
I understand your concern about not wanting to get roped into a relationship with a person with many health problems. But I just want you to consider all the things that make up health. Is she fat? Does she drink? Does she smoke? Did her mother have breast cancer? Was she ever exposed radon? Does she text while driving?
In my completely unscientific, yet qualified as a life-long fatty, opinion, here is what I would look at if I were trying to date a fit fat person:
1) Someone whose weight been stable for a long period of time: Unexplained weight gain and weight loss are often indicators of health issues.
2)Someone who is not dieting or taking other risky weight loss measures like bypass or lap band: More and more studies are showing that frequent dieting and/or regaining weight is very damaging to the body, more that just staying at a stable weight. The long term morbidity and mortality of weight loss procedures is being understood better everyday, with pretty shocking outcomes.
3)Someone who is active and eats a balanced diet: This goes for pretty much anyone, fat or thin.
4). Someone who self-identifies as fat, and is not ashamed of it: There is a high correlation between depression and fatness. Being fat in our society takes a huge mental toll- it can be difficult to deal with the continual onslaught of messages that you ugly, stupid, wreckless, and a burden to society. There are tons of self-hating fat folk out there, and I think that angst can cause lots of mental distress and possibly illness. Find someone who is subverting these messages, and living her best, happiest life at whatever size she may be.
5). Someone who can advocate for herself: This is often related to number 4. Fat people often get substandard medical care because of substantial (self-reported) bias in the healthcare industry. If a person is fat, and is trying to be proactive about their health, they will often encounter resistant medical personnel. Everything gets blamed on fat, so other underlying problems get missed, and diagnosis is delayed. Then treatment is more involved and more expensive (and voilà, you have statistics about how much more health care fat people need and cost). This can even happen with doctors who you like and trust (I speak deeply from experience). You want to find a partner who will be vocal about her health care needs, and not back down when she thinks something is wrong. It's also common for fat people to avoid the doctor entirely because of the shame and humiliation they may experience at the hands of medical professionals, which is unfortunate. Find someone who takes care of the usual medical routines: yearly check-ups, gyno, dentist.
6). Someone with good health insurance. Again, I would state this is important for anyone, fat or thin. People who don't have good, comprehensive medical insurance are more likely to not have routine medical care, and to delay diagnosis and treatment of problems. And since a fat person may need to be particularly assertive in managing their health care, this may mean second opinions and multiple doctors. You don't want cost to stand in the way. Also, if a fat person doesn't have health insurance through an employer or other group plan, it's very likely that they won't be able to get it at all.
And finally, it's important for you to own your attraction, and to stick up for any woman that you choose to date. While you don't have to be a radical, size-acceptance activist, you do need to be a supportive partner and advocate. Life is hard enough for a self-accepting fat person without worrying that the people we love the most don't have our backs.
posted by kimdog at 7:25 AM on June 13, 2010 [4 favorites]
Regarding the risks of being in either group, the answer can be "it depends," although as others have stated the news is usually not good. A few additional considerations to build on what others have stated (mostly in relation to the "overweight" category):
- It could depend on how a woman carries her weight. There's been some added focus on belly weight, in particular the waist-to-hip ratio. This article mentions a study that waist-to-hip ratio is a stronger indicator of risks than BMI. So I guess to that extent, if you like a pear-shaped or hourglass woman who's overweight and want her to stay that way it's different than if you like one who's apple-shaped.
- A little extra weight might not be all bad - but again, we're talking about a little. That's the only article I could find at this time about a little extra weight being healthier in old age in comparison to being normal, but I've read a few articles to that effect.
- And as folks have already mentioned, blood work and similar tests might be a better indicator than what you see. But some of the tolls of obesity don't show up until later (after age 40).
N-thing previous comments that if it's what you like, there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you seriously consider whether weight loss would be a deal-breaker in the relationship and you wouldn't actively encourage unhealthy behavior or discourage healthy behavior.
posted by Terriniski at 7:34 AM on June 13, 2010
- It could depend on how a woman carries her weight. There's been some added focus on belly weight, in particular the waist-to-hip ratio. This article mentions a study that waist-to-hip ratio is a stronger indicator of risks than BMI. So I guess to that extent, if you like a pear-shaped or hourglass woman who's overweight and want her to stay that way it's different than if you like one who's apple-shaped.
- A little extra weight might not be all bad - but again, we're talking about a little. That's the only article I could find at this time about a little extra weight being healthier in old age in comparison to being normal, but I've read a few articles to that effect.
- And as folks have already mentioned, blood work and similar tests might be a better indicator than what you see. But some of the tolls of obesity don't show up until later (after age 40).
N-thing previous comments that if it's what you like, there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you seriously consider whether weight loss would be a deal-breaker in the relationship and you wouldn't actively encourage unhealthy behavior or discourage healthy behavior.
posted by Terriniski at 7:34 AM on June 13, 2010
as a doctor, I get to see a lot of the consequences of obesity. It seems to me that there are many many people out there who are somewhat overweight and happy and it doesn't impede them much at all.
Once you hit a certain level of obesity, and problems start to kick in, then it's usually more of a quality of life issue. for example, asthma and arthritis, obstructive sleep apnea. My spouse has central sleep apnea, and I can tell you it drives me crazy to keep hearing him stop breathing in the middle of the night and waiting anxiously for him to start again. Every time I wonder if he might not start again this time.
Beyond that, the majority of people will have type II diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and coronary artery disease to go along with their obesity. These things will not cause much quality of life issue, but are risk factors for major events like cancer, heart attack and stroke. You might not realize this but obesity is a major risk factor for cancer such as breast cancer and colon cancer, even though most people think of it as related more to the cardiovascular issues.
I would point out that what I have noticed is that most people, no matter how hard they try, cannot cause themselves major damage through their 40s. Bodies can take a lot of abuse, even including smoking, drinking, and drugs on top of lack of exercise and bad diet. Once you get into the 50s, the problems seem to start to set in, the most egregious abusers of their bodies can get themselves into nursing homes by their late 50s. By the 60s, there seem to be much bigger differences in the quality of life of the people who took care of themselves, and those who didn't.
The people who didn't start developing late stage complications of diabetes and vascular disease like kidney failure, blindness, lymphedema, cellulitis of the feet etc. I see a lot of people who have terrible feet/lower legs and then end up having them amputated (after years of struggling with infections and pain). These people are not young, but they are not what I would consider old, either. I could give you descriptions of what they go through that would be quite horrifying, but I will spare you and just say that it is pretty horrible. People don't realize how being morbidly obese not only causes health problems, it prevents you from getting good healthcare, because it becomes difficult to do medical things that would otherwise be simple, like getting an IV line put in, performing an ultrasound, or getting a CAT scan (there is a table weight limit on CT scanners). It can be more than just embarrassing, it can cause a lot of additional pain and shame on what would otherwise be a routine visit for let's say a minor car accident.
For me, I really like the idea of having a healthy spouse who can spend retirement enjoying our family and friends, traveling around the world, and maintaining fun outdoors hobbies with me. Once we turn 60, I do not want to be hanging out in hospitals and nursing homes, I want to be having the best time of my life for another 30 years! That is my personal feeling, and so I would not be in a relationship with someone morbidly obese (and yes, to those who wondered, for someone 5'4", anything >197 lbs is morbidly obese). Sure, my healthy spouse may die from cancer at age 50, but we all have to roll those dice, and I'm trying to play my odds the best I can.
The definition of morbidly obese is obesity causing morbidity, or complications to your health. So that's pretty much the bottom line. If you're looking for fun in the short run, I think it's unlikely there will be any health hindrances to your plan (assuming you are not very old yourself), if you are looking for a long term partner.... consider these issues carefully. sorry for a lengthy answer, I had a lot to say on this topic.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 10:50 PM on June 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
Once you hit a certain level of obesity, and problems start to kick in, then it's usually more of a quality of life issue. for example, asthma and arthritis, obstructive sleep apnea. My spouse has central sleep apnea, and I can tell you it drives me crazy to keep hearing him stop breathing in the middle of the night and waiting anxiously for him to start again. Every time I wonder if he might not start again this time.
Beyond that, the majority of people will have type II diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and coronary artery disease to go along with their obesity. These things will not cause much quality of life issue, but are risk factors for major events like cancer, heart attack and stroke. You might not realize this but obesity is a major risk factor for cancer such as breast cancer and colon cancer, even though most people think of it as related more to the cardiovascular issues.
I would point out that what I have noticed is that most people, no matter how hard they try, cannot cause themselves major damage through their 40s. Bodies can take a lot of abuse, even including smoking, drinking, and drugs on top of lack of exercise and bad diet. Once you get into the 50s, the problems seem to start to set in, the most egregious abusers of their bodies can get themselves into nursing homes by their late 50s. By the 60s, there seem to be much bigger differences in the quality of life of the people who took care of themselves, and those who didn't.
The people who didn't start developing late stage complications of diabetes and vascular disease like kidney failure, blindness, lymphedema, cellulitis of the feet etc. I see a lot of people who have terrible feet/lower legs and then end up having them amputated (after years of struggling with infections and pain). These people are not young, but they are not what I would consider old, either. I could give you descriptions of what they go through that would be quite horrifying, but I will spare you and just say that it is pretty horrible. People don't realize how being morbidly obese not only causes health problems, it prevents you from getting good healthcare, because it becomes difficult to do medical things that would otherwise be simple, like getting an IV line put in, performing an ultrasound, or getting a CAT scan (there is a table weight limit on CT scanners). It can be more than just embarrassing, it can cause a lot of additional pain and shame on what would otherwise be a routine visit for let's say a minor car accident.
For me, I really like the idea of having a healthy spouse who can spend retirement enjoying our family and friends, traveling around the world, and maintaining fun outdoors hobbies with me. Once we turn 60, I do not want to be hanging out in hospitals and nursing homes, I want to be having the best time of my life for another 30 years! That is my personal feeling, and so I would not be in a relationship with someone morbidly obese (and yes, to those who wondered, for someone 5'4", anything >197 lbs is morbidly obese). Sure, my healthy spouse may die from cancer at age 50, but we all have to roll those dice, and I'm trying to play my odds the best I can.
The definition of morbidly obese is obesity causing morbidity, or complications to your health. So that's pretty much the bottom line. If you're looking for fun in the short run, I think it's unlikely there will be any health hindrances to your plan (assuming you are not very old yourself), if you are looking for a long term partner.... consider these issues carefully. sorry for a lengthy answer, I had a lot to say on this topic.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 10:50 PM on June 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by bearette at 12:47 PM on June 12, 2010 [1 favorite]