[insert taters joke here]

May 8, 2010 1:51 PM

My boyfriend of 14 months has asked me to move in with him. Yay! The problem is, we haven't had intercourse yet, and I feel sort of weird/bad about that. (NSFW, long, snowflakey)

My SO is a wonderful, giving sexual partner, and our sex life is a lot of fun. We have a ton of oral and manual sex, and we do a lot of BDSM-related stuff (mostly power exchange and roleplaying, but we experiment with the S/M side too -- we're both switches). He has no problem maintaining an erection or having an orgasm during these activities. However, he seems to have some kind of mental block about penetrating me vaginally. Whenever we try to have PIV intercourse, he gets extremely flustered and loses his erection pretty much instantly.

I love this man. We have very compatible personalities, goals, and fetishes, and we're wildly attracted to each other. I can easily see myself with him in 10 years, and he feels the same way... we're both enthusiastic about the thought of eventual marriage, buying a house together, parenting together, etcetera. But as much as I love him, and as much as I love the sex that we do have, the idea of never having PIV intercourse again makes me really sad. I'm only 22 and I don't want to give up that particular act at this point in my life. And it's starting to look like it's never going to happen with him. We've tried all of the following:
- "taking vaginal intercourse off the menu", as suggested by Dan Savage and some MeFites... for 8 months in the middle of our relationship, we pretended the act didn't exist and satisfied each other in other ways
- cock rings
- penis pumps
- getting slightly tipsy together
- every position I can think of
- getting him close to orgasm with my hand or mouth, and then attempting to switch acts

The one thing we haven't really done is talk openly about the issue. I've attempted to bring up the subject twice; not during sex, or out-of-the-blue at the dinner table, or in any other pressure-filled/awkward situation. Both times we were just cuddling and discussing various aspects of our relationship, and I mentioned that I'm still really looking forward to fucking him eventually. Both times, he reacted tearfully and angrily, and emphatically told me that talking about the problem makes it much worse. I can see how that would be the case, but I really can't think of a solution that doesn't involve an open dialogue about it. He occasionally brings up the issue in a sort of apologetic way and tries to assure me that he wants me and that it isn't my fault, but if I attempt to turn his remarks into a conversation or brainstorming session, he gets very defensive.

If anyone has been in a similar situation, what helped you and your partner? Should I attempt to forget about it and move in with him anyway, since our relationship is great aside from this one thing? Or do I need to accept the possibility that it will never happen, and decide accordingly whether it's a dealbreaker?

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (31 answers total)

I'm not clear from what you wrote, has he ever had PIV sex with anyone or is it just you that he hasn't done it with? If I were you and wanted PIV sex, I'd say you really have to lay it on the line and tell him that if you can't at least talk about it, you may not be able to stay in the relationship. Only you can say if you're willing to give it up to stay with him/.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 1:55 PM on May 8, 2010

Both times, he reacted tearfully and angrily, and emphatically told me that talking about the problem makes it much worse.

You can't tolerate being shut out from talking about this. Besides, if it was going to get better without talking by now, it already would have -- how can it get any worse?

You need to have an idea of where this is headed before you move in together.
posted by hermitosis at 2:01 PM on May 8, 2010 [11 favorites]

I think it might help to let him know that unless he talks to you frankly about what the problem is, you're just going to fear or assume the worst, regardless of his loving affirmations.
posted by hermitosis at 2:10 PM on May 8, 2010

Does it have anything to do with the possibility of conceiving a child? Have you asked him? What would you do if you did get pregnant? If you're mature enough to write all of the above, you're definitely mature enough to sit him down, multiple times if necessary, to hash this out. You can't help if you don't know what the problem is. And it hasn't gone away on its own. Time for a new plan. Get a couples counselor if it's easier to have someone guide the conversation. But tell him, straight up, you need to talk about this.

Maybe he doesn't know how it will change things? Maybe he doesn't want to be a father? Maybe he saw someone assault someone and now he has a mental block? Maybe who knows what... the point is. Ya gotta talk. He will, eventually. And if he doesn't, you'll have new information with which you can make a new decision: is not talking about not having intercourse okay with you, and if not, you'll know what to do.

Good luck. Sit him down tomorrow afternoon.
posted by barnone at 2:11 PM on May 8, 2010

Gay alarm bells ringing for me too.

+1 -- getting slight tipsy together
-1 -- if he performs oral on you

If a woman has to beg a guy to bone her, there is something seriously wrong. Don't move in with him!
posted by teedee2000 at 2:14 PM on May 8, 2010

I suspect that he's gay

I agree with the rest of your reply, but that seems really unlikely to me. I doubt that someone comfortable with all kinds of kink would feel enough shame to remain closeted. Also, I've talked to gay men who say it's much easier to grin-and-bear-it during vaginal sex than during oral sex with a woman.
posted by ripley_ at 2:14 PM on May 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

14 months of not talking about this is complete and utter bullshit. You need to press the issue, no matter how upset it makes. Not pressing it hasn't helped, so what have you go to lose?

It would be foolhardly to move in with him before this was dealt with. You have a need that not only isn't being met but is actively being ignored. You can't settle for that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:32 PM on May 8, 2010 [2 favorites]

...emphatically told me that talking about the problem makes it much worse.

Tough shit. Making things worse for the moment to be better off in the long run is a fact of life, plain and simple. Think of it like surgery. Most people would just rather not get cut open, but sometimes you have to in order to remove an offending organ. Unless he drags himself outside of his comfort zone and has a conversation with you re: what is going on, this whole no-PIV thing will just get worse and worse until it bursts. He might be fine with it, but you are clearly not, and that is grounds for having a conversation. Make it as comfortable as you can. Tell him you don't need an apology and you know he cares for you but unless he lays his cards down on the table, the already-existing issues are going to get worse and the last reason you want to have a relationship fail is because he wasn't comfortable talking about it.

Should I attempt to forget about it and move in with him anyway, since our relationship is great aside from this one thing?

Oh god no. If you were the sort of person who was fine with this situation, you wouldn't be on Ask Mefi. You'd shrug and grin and bear it and be all the same. You're not. It has to be dealt with before you two move in together. I'm not one to lightly suggest ultimatums, but a much more carefully-phrased "we talk about this or else we're not moving in together" seems to be necessary for you to be happy. Do you really want to move in with someone and continue to feel "weird/bad"? No. No you do not. And don't let him or your guilt convince you otherwise, no matter how awesome he is and how bad he feels about it.
posted by griphus at 2:32 PM on May 8, 2010 [4 favorites]

I doubt that someone comfortable with all kinds of kink would feel enough shame to remain closeted.

what straight man enjoys all kinds of sex except PIV sex?


So not true. He could be gay. He might not be. He might be so petrified of having a kid. Or petrified of a disease. Or he has some kind of STI and it's caused other shame/anxiety. It could just be a psychological cycle now and if he does it once successfully, the cycle will be broken. He might have pegging desires and this just makes him feel worse. WHO KNOWS. The point is we have no idea, and neither does his girlfriend.
posted by barnone at 2:33 PM on May 8, 2010 [7 favorites]

Therapy seems like the only logical thing left since you've tried everything else. If he can get an erection during other types of sex, then it's obviously a psychological problem, not a physical one. That's something only he can work out, and only if he wants to. If he just flat out refuses to talk to someone about it (other than you) then that might be the dealbreaker, rather than the lack of intercourse.
posted by desjardins at 2:34 PM on May 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

we're both enthusiastic about the thought of eventual ... parenting together

Are you sure you both are? You don't mention birth control in your question. Have you talked openly about birth control?
posted by fritley at 3:02 PM on May 8, 2010

Therapy. Also, he should talk to a doctor. Viagra might help you guys give this a fair whack, so to speak.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 3:04 PM on May 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

Both times, he reacted tearfully and angrily

I would not move in with him until you know what he's keeping from you (however well intentioned). I didn't automatically think gay, I thought abused or witnessed abuse, from his reaction. He needs to talk with you and/or a counselor about whatever it is, before you're even more pressured to be in an awkward relationship in spite of a deal-breaker issue, because of financial entanglement.
posted by ctmf at 3:07 PM on May 8, 2010 [2 favorites]

if I understand you correctly he has the physical ability to maintain an erection in all but this one circumstance. that suggest to me that this is a psychological issue. so either he is not turned on by this or he is not relaxing. your communication issues suggest the latter to me. could he be worried about something? could he be intimidated, nervous, worried? there is only one way to make this work and that is through open conversation. try to be nice and not overly serious about it. something like this probably makes him really insecure. I would suggest seeking professional help (=conversations, not viagra) if you two don't know what the issue might be.
posted by krautland at 3:08 PM on May 8, 2010

Gay was not my first thought, but without talking to him, who knows. And that's the central point here -- you need to find a way to talk. Maybe directly, just the two of you; maybe with a facilitator of some sort (therapist, counselor, minister, etc). But whatever it takes, you have to find a way to talk about this (and future difficult relationship issues) now, before you are living together or married.

what straight man enjoys all kinds of sex except PIV sex?

Probably quite a few. Is a guy who can only get off if he is rubbing himself on your feet any less straight because of having an intense fetish? There's a huge range of expressions of sexuality, especially when you add in earlier traumas, fears, and other constraints. You are not wrong to insist on this as a piece of your sex life -- but just because a guy isn't into regular fucking doesn't automatically make him gay.
posted by Forktine at 3:18 PM on May 8, 2010 [3 favorites]

I don't think he's gay. I think he has a specific issue that he is embarrassed to share with you. Maybe, for example, he only gets off by imagining that he is an orange, and oranges don't have penises. He doesn't want to talk about it, because he knows that talking about it will lead to him telling you this thing that he doesn't want to tell you.

Tell him that you don't have to be having intercourse before you move in together... but you do need to understand exactly why you're not having intercourse before you move in together.

Sorry, but when you ask another person to share your living space and sleep in your bed every night, then you need to explain why you can't fuck them. Trust me, it's written on a rock somewhere.
posted by bingo at 3:40 PM on May 8, 2010 [9 favorites]

I suspect he needs a therapist so that he can learn to disclose whatever his issue is. Could be abuse, could be gender identity, could be orientation, could be anything barnone's already excellently summarized.

Can he strap on and penetrate you? Would that be something he'd be open to trying? I wonder how much of it is penetration itself, and how much is directly related to it being his penis.

I don't think this is something you guys can let slide if you're planning on having biological children without medical intervention, though, so you'll have to get some discussion going long before any family planning occurs.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 3:44 PM on May 8, 2010

I didn't automatically think gay, I thought abused or witnessed abuse, from his reaction.

Ditto. Talking is what's needed, as most everyone has said, although if the above is the case it may well be a therapist, friend or family member he needs to be the main support for him working through it rather than you.

You're the closest person this man has in his life, and it's evident from your post how devoted you are to him. Be confident in your ability to be a catalyst for and support in his dealing with whatever issues he has, present this support to him in return for him accepting your need for the situation to change from what it is.

Presenting all of your thoughts, worries and needs to him in the coherent way you have here may be continually difficult to do in any face to face situation. If a close friend or therapist can't be involved yet as an intermediary I'd suggest writing it all in a letter to him, equally emphasising both your support for him and requirements from him, and let him read it in private.

I hope you get this resolved soon and satisfactorily - good luck.
posted by protorp at 4:08 PM on May 8, 2010

I dated a gentleman like this- in fact I'm half tempted to ask if this is the same guy. I don't have any answers, but I believe it was psychological and related to the D/s relationship aspects.

A heterosexual switch guy I knew had a lot of trouble with penetrative sex-- and I think was sometimes impotent in other regards-- and offered the explanation that he spent a lot of time when young masturbating to D/s fantasies, and that shifting from that to penetrative sex was especially difficult. A professional dominatrix gave me the same explanation once too, and said it was fairly common among guys she worked with. So, maybe not too complicated in a psychological way but more related to long-term habits? And also, maybe common enough that there is some helpful literature available, in terms of understanding if not changing?

It it were myself, this problem would not be a deal-breaker but the refusal to talk about it would.
posted by BibiRose at 4:09 PM on May 8, 2010

If he can't talk about this with you, how will it get better? The lack of PIV sex doesn't concern me as much as this lack of communication.

You've tried laying off him and letting him sort it out. That clearly has not worked. If he needs to see a doctor or a psychologist or something he should be willing to do it in order to work things out with you, but if he doesn't do anything (and who the hell knows since he won't discuss it?) then he's pretty much telling you that although you may care for him, he's not a person to be relied upon to have open communications and to prioritize his relationship with you over his embarrassment.

Don't move in with him, even if he says he think he'll get better if you're closer to him. Solve your other issues first before you do something that's hard to undo.
posted by inturnaround at 4:13 PM on May 8, 2010 [2 favorites]

I know a straight man like this, for whom anxiety was a big factor. Because he had a pattern of losing his erection during "PIV" sex, he'd start thinking about the erection problem as soon as the sex started, be hyper-alert to distractions, and have a hard time staying hard. His doctor gave him two options: anti-anxiety meds, which he'd have to take for a long time, or viagra, but she'd only give him a half dozen pills. He opted for the viagra, which helped him stay hard. Once he'd successfully had sex with the viagra a few times, having sex without became easier. He still had problems getting distracted some times, so it wasn't always great, but he knew he COULD stay hard, and he knew what it SHOULD feel like, and that -- plus persistence -- allowed him to make "PIV" a regular part of his sexual life.

But none of this would have worked out without some pretty awkward conversations with his significant other, or some embarrassed prodding on her part that he'd better do something to address the situation.

I also know a straight woman who is with a different straight man like this, who has not been able to overcome her embarrassment. They've been married four years now, and I believe they have still not had penetrative sex.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 4:22 PM on May 8, 2010

Another note: When my husband and I have gone through periods where certain sex things just weren't working, we've found that scheduling a time to try -- with no pressure to succeed -- really helped. So every Wednesday night and Saturday morning we're going to try to do X. And if it doesn't work out, we'll try again later. I think the ubiquitousness of the effort, and our willingness to move on to other fun stuff if it doesn't work out, really helped alleviate the pressure that can be a passion killer in the bedroom.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 4:24 PM on May 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

I don't think anyone has made this point, but good Christ does it need to be made.

You have been more than courteous and respectful about his need for space, room and time with this issue. The idea that talking about it is somehow going to make something that isn't happening "worse" is bullshit. It won't (it can't) make it worse; he just really, really doesn't want to talk about it.

Well tough titty because not confronting this is completely and utterly selfish and that is not okay in a functional relationship. He's very happy and comfortable with the status quo, and that's lovely, but you are not. Continuing to coast on the staus quo because it's going great for him even though you're suffering is not how we do things in equal partnership land.

Tell him, please, that you will be delighted to move in with him when he is ready to commit to open and complete communication. Underscore that this is less about the PIV than with your discomfort with a no-go communication zone in the relationship. Emphasise that while you understand this is a tough road for him, you're willing to support him however that will work best for him: with you, with a therapist, or with a couples therapist.

You can be friendly and positive and loving and factual in this discussion - there's no need for vast drama when the communication is clear - but at the same time, be firm and do not move in together until you are comfortable real progress is being made.
posted by DarlingBri at 5:12 PM on May 8, 2010 [13 favorites]

Please memail me.
posted by golakers at 5:30 PM on May 8, 2010

It's been mentioned here before that difficult conversations in one form (face-to-face) become easier in other forms (telephone, email). What about arranging a conversation about this, and asking him to choose the means of discussing it?

It's totally reasonable to say "look, we can't go any further together until we deal with this issue. I understand it's hard for you to discuss. How can we discuss it so that you feel more safe?" Be prepared to suggest in the presence of a counselor, by email, by telephone, anything. Start dealing with his problem discussing it.
posted by fatbird at 5:33 PM on May 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

Not to be unnecessarily indelicate, but it's kind of amazing that this got this far and this without the word 'Raped' being mentioned. I mean, if the OP and her SO's genders were switched, it would be the first thing I would have thought of...

Here might be a start - flip down to Myth: Adult men cannot be sexually assaulted by women and Myth: Getting an erection or ejaculation during sexual assault means you "really wanted it" or consented to it. to get an idea of where your SO might be coming from.

He's got a problem, and he needs help, certainly - But maybe he needs some understanding, too.
posted by Orb2069 at 11:52 PM on May 8, 2010

If I had to guess, and I do, I would ask if he has a history of being abused. Has he mentioned what his earliest contact(s) with a vagina or the female body were like? This isn't just him not liking penetrative sex. He's been traumatized in some way.
One of my exes had a fiance like this. He'd cry whenever she'd take her clothes off...or when they entered a church.
posted by flowerofhighrank at 12:14 AM on May 9, 2010

My completely uninformed first guess is some kind of abuse in his past.

I would make it clear to him that while you're extremely sympathetic and love him, PIV sex is important to you and you're not willing to just carry on without it. If he's not willing to talk about it with you, you should ask that he see a therapist and commit to working on the issue.

I think it would be appropriate and acceptable to not move in together until the issue is resolved (and it may take a few years!) if that's how you feel. If you do move in together, I would make it clear that marriage is off the table until he's made real progress.
posted by callmejay at 7:13 AM on May 10, 2010

Just nthing that he doesn't get to dictate that this major part of your life is somehow a forbidden topic. If you move forward, you must insist that this conversation happen (obviously in a caring way), whether it's uncomfortable or not.

Maybe remind him, too, that even if the conversation causes him discomfort, discomfort is just a feeling, and feelings fade and pass. No one dies from and uncomfortable conversation.
posted by agentwills at 8:04 AM on May 10, 2010

Like other people in this thread, I'd say he's gay or he's just not that into you, except that when he's doing sexual things with you he's got a raging boner.

It's just the PIV that's the problem, huh? I don't understand. No wonder you don't either.

That it's hard to talk with him about this is a bigger problem. You're unsatisfied now because of lack of PIV, and it's only going to get worse. Don't move in with him until you understand why there's no PIV.
posted by boghead at 8:06 AM on May 10, 2010

Take a look at Passionate Marriage by David Snarch (it's not just for married people, but committed couples of all kinds). His approach to sex therapy looks at both partners, and deals with the whole person, not just sex.
posted by ocherdraco at 3:43 PM on July 13, 2010