Dateless and frustrated.
May 3, 2010 11:23 AM Subscribe
How do I make guys like me without compromising what I like about myself?
I've only been in two serious relationships in my life. Both times I've been the pursuer, and both times they've ended really badly when both the guys ended up having serious issues (one questioning his sexuality and using me as a beard while he figured it out; the other having been sexually abused and hated sex) they kept to themselves until long into the relationship. The only men who ever seem to hit on me are creepy. I feel like at 26, no decent guy has ever actually been interested in me. I have a ton of guy friends, but whenever I get a crush on one of them and tell them, they say they only see me as a friend.
I've asked my girl friends about this and they say they don't understand why this is the case. I'm not conventionally attractive, but I recently asked my best friend to be honest with me and she said that my unconventional attractiveness is what makes me attractive, and that I'm bright and bubbly and that it makes me beautiful. I once asked my sister about this issue, and she said that I have a lot of confidence in myself and that it's intimidating. I have a lot of hobbies, I'm athletic and in good shape, I'm smart, I'm down to earth, I'm funny, I don't dress provocatively but I take care of my appearance... I think I have an awesome personality, but I still can't get a date. Isn't liking yourself the first step to getting other people to like you?
The only reasons I can think of why I'm perpetually single are that either I come off as too innocent - I'm sexually experienced but not as much as most of my girl friends - or that I seem unavailable. In either case, I have no idea how to about changing this perception of me.
I've only been in two serious relationships in my life. Both times I've been the pursuer, and both times they've ended really badly when both the guys ended up having serious issues (one questioning his sexuality and using me as a beard while he figured it out; the other having been sexually abused and hated sex) they kept to themselves until long into the relationship. The only men who ever seem to hit on me are creepy. I feel like at 26, no decent guy has ever actually been interested in me. I have a ton of guy friends, but whenever I get a crush on one of them and tell them, they say they only see me as a friend.
I've asked my girl friends about this and they say they don't understand why this is the case. I'm not conventionally attractive, but I recently asked my best friend to be honest with me and she said that my unconventional attractiveness is what makes me attractive, and that I'm bright and bubbly and that it makes me beautiful. I once asked my sister about this issue, and she said that I have a lot of confidence in myself and that it's intimidating. I have a lot of hobbies, I'm athletic and in good shape, I'm smart, I'm down to earth, I'm funny, I don't dress provocatively but I take care of my appearance... I think I have an awesome personality, but I still can't get a date. Isn't liking yourself the first step to getting other people to like you?
The only reasons I can think of why I'm perpetually single are that either I come off as too innocent - I'm sexually experienced but not as much as most of my girl friends - or that I seem unavailable. In either case, I have no idea how to about changing this perception of me.
I wouldn't usually recommend this, but have you considered Internet dating?
Then, no one will see you as unavailable. And I wouldn't worry about seeming innocent. In my experience, most mature men are more attracted to people who don't make a big public deal about their sexuality. And if you are demure about it AND know what you're doing-- well, personally, that's a pretty big turn on.
posted by 256 at 11:30 AM on May 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
Then, no one will see you as unavailable. And I wouldn't worry about seeming innocent. In my experience, most mature men are more attracted to people who don't make a big public deal about their sexuality. And if you are demure about it AND know what you're doing-- well, personally, that's a pretty big turn on.
posted by 256 at 11:30 AM on May 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
These kind of questions are posted a lot and the answers are mostly the same: you are perfectly fine, there's nothing wrong with you, you just have to keep trying in all the usual ways.
Good, lasting relationships are not a certain bet. You have to take chances, and they don't always work out. Nothin' more to it. You've had two serious relationships so far - not so bad. We can all cross our fingers for you, but that's about it.
posted by flavor at 11:32 AM on May 3, 2010
Good, lasting relationships are not a certain bet. You have to take chances, and they don't always work out. Nothin' more to it. You've had two serious relationships so far - not so bad. We can all cross our fingers for you, but that's about it.
posted by flavor at 11:32 AM on May 3, 2010
How do I make guys like me without compromising what I like about myself?
This is a non-starter. You can't really make people like you. They're either going to like you or they're not. Focus more on letting guys know that you like them.
I have a lot of hobbies, I'm athletic and in good shape, I'm smart, I'm down to earth, I'm funny, I don't dress provocatively but I take care of my appearance... I think I have an awesome personality...
All that stuff, that's the good stuff. Keep on doing that stuff and thinking that way and things are going to work in your favor.
posted by wabbittwax at 11:33 AM on May 3, 2010
This is a non-starter. You can't really make people like you. They're either going to like you or they're not. Focus more on letting guys know that you like them.
I have a lot of hobbies, I'm athletic and in good shape, I'm smart, I'm down to earth, I'm funny, I don't dress provocatively but I take care of my appearance... I think I have an awesome personality...
All that stuff, that's the good stuff. Keep on doing that stuff and thinking that way and things are going to work in your favor.
posted by wabbittwax at 11:33 AM on May 3, 2010
It sounds like you've had bad luck. My own suggestion, based on the limited information available here, is that you think about changing how and where you meet guys (and thus the kind of guys you meet) rather than asking what it is about you that seems to drive decent guys away, and attract douchebags. I imagine that a lot of the good guys who would be attracted to someone like you (a woman who is confident, intelligent, and funny) don't hit on you or take the first step precisely because they don't want to seem like those other creepy dudes. Or they're just shy, or maybe you really are so awesome as to be intimidating.
You've got plenty going for you, but most of all you have poise and confidence; use this to your advantage by approaching others (wherever it is your hobbies occur) who might not have the nerve to approach you.
posted by cirripede at 11:35 AM on May 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
You've got plenty going for you, but most of all you have poise and confidence; use this to your advantage by approaching others (wherever it is your hobbies occur) who might not have the nerve to approach you.
posted by cirripede at 11:35 AM on May 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
My guess is that the main problem is that you're 26 -- or, rather, that until recently, you were 25, 24, 23, 22, etc.
There are exceptions, of course, but many people just START getting mature enough to be in long-term relationships in their mid-to-late 20s. The majority of my friends were either lonely when they were younger than that, or they had a bunch of bad relationships.
I'm not at all surprised that you dated a closeted gay man. That's when gay men are most-likely to be closeted -- when they're really young. And there are lots of people on the lesser side of 25 who are still, shall we say, unformed. Date them, and they are likely to wind up being different people a couple of years later. They are still "finding themselves."
Here's the big problem: right when folks start maturing to the point where they will make good partners, people like you, who have been burned when they were younger, are ready to give up. They assume that all relationships are doomed or that there's something wrong with them. No! They were just dating immature people. Which isn't surprising, because those people were young. (And if you're one of these gals who dated 50-year-old men, then the same thing applies. There are exceptions, but most 50-year-old men who want to date 22-year-old girls are not mature 50-year-old men.)
The good news is that you're now reaching an age where your peers will finally have moved past all sorts of issues. They won't be in school any more, so that madness is done. They will have careers. They will have been living away from their parents for quite a few years, etc.
PLEASE follow your instincts re being yourself. You really HAVE to just be yourself. Otherwise, things will backfire on you, later. You know those creepy guys who post photos of themselves on dating sites -- photos of themselves when they were ten years younger or 40 pounds lighter? Of COURSE that backfires on them, because when they show up for a date, the girl can see that they don't look like their photos. The same thing applies to faking some aspect of your personality. It may take longer for the truth to come out, but you won't be able to keep up the fakery forever. The truth will out, and your partner will feel conned.
If you aren't super-experienced, guys who like super-experienced girls won't be interested in you. Oh well. There are plenty of other guys. Be yourself, let who you are be apparent. There WILL be guys who will like whatever it is you are.
posted by grumblebee at 11:42 AM on May 3, 2010 [20 favorites]
There are exceptions, of course, but many people just START getting mature enough to be in long-term relationships in their mid-to-late 20s. The majority of my friends were either lonely when they were younger than that, or they had a bunch of bad relationships.
I'm not at all surprised that you dated a closeted gay man. That's when gay men are most-likely to be closeted -- when they're really young. And there are lots of people on the lesser side of 25 who are still, shall we say, unformed. Date them, and they are likely to wind up being different people a couple of years later. They are still "finding themselves."
Here's the big problem: right when folks start maturing to the point where they will make good partners, people like you, who have been burned when they were younger, are ready to give up. They assume that all relationships are doomed or that there's something wrong with them. No! They were just dating immature people. Which isn't surprising, because those people were young. (And if you're one of these gals who dated 50-year-old men, then the same thing applies. There are exceptions, but most 50-year-old men who want to date 22-year-old girls are not mature 50-year-old men.)
The good news is that you're now reaching an age where your peers will finally have moved past all sorts of issues. They won't be in school any more, so that madness is done. They will have careers. They will have been living away from their parents for quite a few years, etc.
PLEASE follow your instincts re being yourself. You really HAVE to just be yourself. Otherwise, things will backfire on you, later. You know those creepy guys who post photos of themselves on dating sites -- photos of themselves when they were ten years younger or 40 pounds lighter? Of COURSE that backfires on them, because when they show up for a date, the girl can see that they don't look like their photos. The same thing applies to faking some aspect of your personality. It may take longer for the truth to come out, but you won't be able to keep up the fakery forever. The truth will out, and your partner will feel conned.
If you aren't super-experienced, guys who like super-experienced girls won't be interested in you. Oh well. There are plenty of other guys. Be yourself, let who you are be apparent. There WILL be guys who will like whatever it is you are.
posted by grumblebee at 11:42 AM on May 3, 2010 [20 favorites]
I'm not conventionally attractive
Ask yourself what this really means to you, how much you're internalizing this and how it may or may not be affecting how you interact with people.
Some might think this and mean, "I'm not a 5-10, willowy, C-cup blonde." And that's fine.
But others might think this and mean, "I'm not a 5-10, willowy, C-cup blonde ... so fuck it ... I'm going to dress down, on purpose, and inadvertently send out a 'I'm weird' vibe that will attract only fellow weirdos." And that's just a silly reaction.
It sounds like you're doing OK. But when someone says "I'm not conventionally attractive," I wonder what message they're really sending.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:43 AM on May 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
Ask yourself what this really means to you, how much you're internalizing this and how it may or may not be affecting how you interact with people.
Some might think this and mean, "I'm not a 5-10, willowy, C-cup blonde." And that's fine.
But others might think this and mean, "I'm not a 5-10, willowy, C-cup blonde ... so fuck it ... I'm going to dress down, on purpose, and inadvertently send out a 'I'm weird' vibe that will attract only fellow weirdos." And that's just a silly reaction.
It sounds like you're doing OK. But when someone says "I'm not conventionally attractive," I wonder what message they're really sending.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:43 AM on May 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
I would also point out that relationships tend to suck as people are figuring out how they work. You're pretty young yet, and as I tell my younger friends, most of my relationships sucked until I met my husband, but even then it took a lot of work. Hang in there. Keep pursuing, maybe just hang back a bit before committing fully so you can evaluate your dating partners.
posted by Issithe at 11:47 AM on May 3, 2010
posted by Issithe at 11:47 AM on May 3, 2010
The only men who ever seem to hit on me are creepy. I feel like at 26, no decent guy has ever actually been interested in me. I have a ton of guy friends, but whenever I get a crush on one of them and tell them, they say they only see me as a friend.
This doesn't sound like there's much of a problem with you -- it sounds more like a reflection of the general fact that it's hard to meet someone out there in the real world. The guys who hit on you out of the blue are going to be relatively romantically/sexually aggressive with strangers or acquaintances (and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it could explain why you find them offputting). You develop a crush on someone you know pretty well, but then you're spending a long time privately devoting your mental energy to someone who's fairly unlikely to requite your interest -- not because you're not attractive but simply because the odds are against any given match. Also, in my experience (and I know this isn't necessarily the conventional wisdom), it's generally harder to suddenly try to introduce a dating/relationship angle into a well-established friendship (which has a high likelihood of at least one person being taken aback, and not in a good sense -- "oh ... I just ... never thought of you that way ...") than it is to straightforwardly pursue new people with overt dating/relationship goals.
This is what online dating is for. You can control the situation and efficiently look through lots of people (filtering out the bad ones, zeroing in on the ones with potential) without wasting too much time/energy putting all your eggs in one basket.
Oh, and please don't change yourself! That would be counterproductive. You might attract men -- but they'd be the wrong kinds of men (men who are interested in someone other than you). You don't need to make yourself into some ideal woman who's guaranteed to get any man you want; you just need to put yourself out there and be who you are. Some percentage of guys will be on the same wavelength, and that will lead to what you want. The more you expand your pool, the less you need to worry about how small that percentage is.
What I'm saying may not be the Hollywood/fairytale/dream version of how dating is supposed to work, but that's not very important. The important thing is to efficiently go about getting what you want.
posted by Jaltcoh at 11:50 AM on May 3, 2010
This doesn't sound like there's much of a problem with you -- it sounds more like a reflection of the general fact that it's hard to meet someone out there in the real world. The guys who hit on you out of the blue are going to be relatively romantically/sexually aggressive with strangers or acquaintances (and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it could explain why you find them offputting). You develop a crush on someone you know pretty well, but then you're spending a long time privately devoting your mental energy to someone who's fairly unlikely to requite your interest -- not because you're not attractive but simply because the odds are against any given match. Also, in my experience (and I know this isn't necessarily the conventional wisdom), it's generally harder to suddenly try to introduce a dating/relationship angle into a well-established friendship (which has a high likelihood of at least one person being taken aback, and not in a good sense -- "oh ... I just ... never thought of you that way ...") than it is to straightforwardly pursue new people with overt dating/relationship goals.
This is what online dating is for. You can control the situation and efficiently look through lots of people (filtering out the bad ones, zeroing in on the ones with potential) without wasting too much time/energy putting all your eggs in one basket.
Oh, and please don't change yourself! That would be counterproductive. You might attract men -- but they'd be the wrong kinds of men (men who are interested in someone other than you). You don't need to make yourself into some ideal woman who's guaranteed to get any man you want; you just need to put yourself out there and be who you are. Some percentage of guys will be on the same wavelength, and that will lead to what you want. The more you expand your pool, the less you need to worry about how small that percentage is.
What I'm saying may not be the Hollywood/fairytale/dream version of how dating is supposed to work, but that's not very important. The important thing is to efficiently go about getting what you want.
posted by Jaltcoh at 11:50 AM on May 3, 2010
how are you at flirting? the thing about getting nice guys to hit on you is that you actually have to give them some sort of signal first - eye contact, a smile, stand a little closer - decent guys don't make a move unless they get a little encouragrement, it's only the creeps that will hit on girls that don't already show an interest. There's a lot of articles out there if you search that will give you tips. Also, flirting is fun! - just because 2 people flirt, it doesn't have to mean anything, or lead anywhere, it's just a pleasant way to interact.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 11:54 AM on May 3, 2010
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 11:54 AM on May 3, 2010
I've asked my girl friends about this...
You need to ask your guy friends. Your girl friends aren't your target market.
Because this:
but I recently asked my best friend to be honest with me and she said that my unconventional attractiveness is what makes me attractive, and that I'm bright and bubbly and that it makes me beautiful. sounds like bs designed not to hurt your feelings.
Look, it all boils down to "will the guy enjoy looking at me and enjoy spending time with me". Unconventionally attractive doesn't sound like the most flattering description, so you really need to get some guys who know you a bit and have seen you want the deal is.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:01 PM on May 3, 2010 [5 favorites]
You need to ask your guy friends. Your girl friends aren't your target market.
Because this:
but I recently asked my best friend to be honest with me and she said that my unconventional attractiveness is what makes me attractive, and that I'm bright and bubbly and that it makes me beautiful. sounds like bs designed not to hurt your feelings.
Look, it all boils down to "will the guy enjoy looking at me and enjoy spending time with me". Unconventionally attractive doesn't sound like the most flattering description, so you really need to get some guys who know you a bit and have seen you want the deal is.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:01 PM on May 3, 2010 [5 favorites]
The only men who ever seem to hit on me are creepy.
Realize now that the times you approached men and they were unwilling to take it further, you might be perceived as the creepy one. With that in mind, what is it those men did that you yourself might be doing? Confidence can be sexy, up to a point, but that one over-confident guy can be as creepy as a mesh bag full of spiders with human faces. Is your confidence intimidating in the same manner?
"Unconventionally attractive" could be anything. Might be bad, might be "a little unusual but some guys will go for that in a big way."
Short of random confessions like "oh and on the second date I like to talk with guys about branding one another's names on our bodies as a sign of our eternal love," this is very, very hard to diagnose over the Intarwebs. Find male acquaintances, preferably ones who are moving away soon, so they can be as blunt as possible without having to see you again, should they wish to deliver bad news.
posted by adipocere at 12:19 PM on May 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Realize now that the times you approached men and they were unwilling to take it further, you might be perceived as the creepy one. With that in mind, what is it those men did that you yourself might be doing? Confidence can be sexy, up to a point, but that one over-confident guy can be as creepy as a mesh bag full of spiders with human faces. Is your confidence intimidating in the same manner?
"Unconventionally attractive" could be anything. Might be bad, might be "a little unusual but some guys will go for that in a big way."
Short of random confessions like "oh and on the second date I like to talk with guys about branding one another's names on our bodies as a sign of our eternal love," this is very, very hard to diagnose over the Intarwebs. Find male acquaintances, preferably ones who are moving away soon, so they can be as blunt as possible without having to see you again, should they wish to deliver bad news.
posted by adipocere at 12:19 PM on May 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Stop making friends with guys first. That's a good idea when you're a teenager but by your mid 20s the idea it getting involved with someone in your social circle that you gave am existing relationship with is a huge turn off to a lot of people. It gets messy, the risk is too high etc. Much easier to date strangers.
posted by fshgrl at 12:30 PM on May 3, 2010
posted by fshgrl at 12:30 PM on May 3, 2010
God, I hate to be the one to bring this up but....so, what kind of men are you targeting? If you're not going for similarly "unconventionally attractive" men as well, that might be part of it (disclaimer: yes, there tons of examples of mismatched couples, in terms of physical attractiveness out there....however--and I wish this were not the case--the women I've known in your shoes long-term were pursuing men who were much more physically attractive than themselves who weren't digging the attractiveness gap). Many women who feel wounded when guys don't see their "inner beauty" or bubbly personalities, won't consider a man with 20 extra pounds (even if they're a bit overweight themselves), under 5'8", or look past other superficial physical flaws or exterior awkwardness, etc.
posted by availablelight at 12:55 PM on May 3, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by availablelight at 12:55 PM on May 3, 2010 [7 favorites]
I think grumblebee really has the best advice. And for anyone who says that your smarts or humor or whatever intimidates guys can just fuck off. I mean, it's such a cliche that guys can't handle smart, funny, athletic women. I suppose there are *lots* of guys out there that can't handle various whatevers about a woman's particular personality but trying to be less "intimidating" is just a recipe for disaster.
I would say, be friendly and open and, frankly, be more aggressive. Go after the guys you want. Internet dating at least as a jump start might be a good way to go. At the very least, you know that those guys are there because they want to date and, most likely, they are interested in you -- at least interested enough for a look-see.
I also think all the advice about your late 20s is also spot on. In addition to that, you are typically out of the environment that encourages casual encounters -- school, mixers, social functions. And you're in to the smaller pools of work and your cultivated friend group. It's hard to meet new people so your dating style needs to be shaken up a little bit. Online dating can help with this as can getting involved in a new activity, hopefully with other single guys you haven't met yet.
posted by amanda at 12:59 PM on May 3, 2010
I would say, be friendly and open and, frankly, be more aggressive. Go after the guys you want. Internet dating at least as a jump start might be a good way to go. At the very least, you know that those guys are there because they want to date and, most likely, they are interested in you -- at least interested enough for a look-see.
I also think all the advice about your late 20s is also spot on. In addition to that, you are typically out of the environment that encourages casual encounters -- school, mixers, social functions. And you're in to the smaller pools of work and your cultivated friend group. It's hard to meet new people so your dating style needs to be shaken up a little bit. Online dating can help with this as can getting involved in a new activity, hopefully with other single guys you haven't met yet.
posted by amanda at 12:59 PM on May 3, 2010
P.S. This is also the kind of thing that your girlfriends likely won't feel comfortable telling you. I know I never have--it's too taboo to say, "I think you're going after guys who aren't realistic for you."
posted by availablelight at 1:00 PM on May 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by availablelight at 1:00 PM on May 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
There are still too many unknowns in here for me to really assess what might be your problem. Without seeing how you actually interact with men it's just too hard.
That being said, I'd like to flag something you mentioned. About your sister you said, "she said that I have a lot of confidence in myself and that it's intimidating."
I'd just like to let you know this is bull. Men love confidence. There's no such thing as a woman having "too much" confidence. That's like a woman being "too beautiful." It's a cop-out that women tell themselves and each other to explain away other problems. It sounds like advice right out of Cosmo.
If you're exuding confidence you're already ahead of the game because in my experience far too few women are confident enough about themselves. Whatever the problem is that's stopping you from meeting the right guy (I'd say it's just a matter of bad luck - not everyone who's in a serious relationship is happy, so don't compare yourself to everyone around you and think that just because they've "found" someone and you haven't that you're doing something wrong) having too much confidence is most certainly NOT it.
posted by fso at 1:10 PM on May 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
That being said, I'd like to flag something you mentioned. About your sister you said, "she said that I have a lot of confidence in myself and that it's intimidating."
I'd just like to let you know this is bull. Men love confidence. There's no such thing as a woman having "too much" confidence. That's like a woman being "too beautiful." It's a cop-out that women tell themselves and each other to explain away other problems. It sounds like advice right out of Cosmo.
If you're exuding confidence you're already ahead of the game because in my experience far too few women are confident enough about themselves. Whatever the problem is that's stopping you from meeting the right guy (I'd say it's just a matter of bad luck - not everyone who's in a serious relationship is happy, so don't compare yourself to everyone around you and think that just because they've "found" someone and you haven't that you're doing something wrong) having too much confidence is most certainly NOT it.
posted by fso at 1:10 PM on May 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, to go against the consensus here, I do think it's a little coincidental that, at 26, the two guys you've ended up in long-term relationships with have been basically put off by sex with women (one because he was maybe-gay, the other because of previous trauma that in his case caused him to "hate sex"). It does make me wonder whether there's something you're putting out there that you might want to change.
Putting together your best friend's kinda up-with-people answer (you're unconventionally attractive, and that's what makes you beautiful!) and the idea that you might be a little intimidatingly confident, I have to ask: is your best friend a little afraid of you? Not like physically afraid, but just in the sense that if you ask yourself who's the boss in your friendship, you can definitively answer: you. If my instinct is right, and she herself is a little intimidated, ask someone else -- your most frank and confident friend, rather than your best girlfriend.
And then be grateful, not punitive or defensive, if you get an honest answer.
posted by palliser at 1:15 PM on May 3, 2010
Putting together your best friend's kinda up-with-people answer (you're unconventionally attractive, and that's what makes you beautiful!) and the idea that you might be a little intimidatingly confident, I have to ask: is your best friend a little afraid of you? Not like physically afraid, but just in the sense that if you ask yourself who's the boss in your friendship, you can definitively answer: you. If my instinct is right, and she herself is a little intimidated, ask someone else -- your most frank and confident friend, rather than your best girlfriend.
And then be grateful, not punitive or defensive, if you get an honest answer.
posted by palliser at 1:15 PM on May 3, 2010
"...she said that I have a lot of confidence in myself and that it's intimidating"
Maybe she doesn't see a lot of this, but a lot of compliments that I hear about other women from guys relate to their high confidence levels. Don't take her perspective on this as being a negative thing- unless it's a Huge Ego thing which puts peple off, confidence is generally very attractive.
posted by rachaelfaith at 1:20 PM on May 3, 2010
Maybe she doesn't see a lot of this, but a lot of compliments that I hear about other women from guys relate to their high confidence levels. Don't take her perspective on this as being a negative thing- unless it's a Huge Ego thing which puts peple off, confidence is generally very attractive.
posted by rachaelfaith at 1:20 PM on May 3, 2010
Well, to go against the consensus here, I do think it's a little coincidental that, at 26, the two guys you've ended up in long-term relationships with have been basically put off by sex with women (one because he was maybe-gay, the other because of previous trauma that in his case caused him to "hate sex").
Yes, this jumped out at me, too, as did your comment about the only men coming on to you seeming "creepy".
Is it possible that you find some men (especially those that pursue you, rather than the reverse) sexually threatening? Are you a little intimidated by sexually confident men? You don't have any sexual trauma in your own past, do you? Do you look on your lack of experience (which you mentioned in your question) as a point against you? It doesn't have to be. Lots of men would even consider that a plus.
Please understand: I do NOT think there is anything "wrong" with you! I just wonder if your man-meter is attuned to metrosexual (actually homosexual) or practically asexual guys for some reason.
Anyway, it's just a thought, and as said above, there's no way we can really tell what you are like from your question, since we don't really know and of course we are hearing your friends' perceptions filtered through your perspective.
By the way, I'd love to know what you mean by "unconventionally attractive". What does conventionally attractive mean to you? Or your friend? Did you ask her? Because I would be hard-pressed to say what I consider conventionally attractive, but I can't imagine telling a friend of mine that she didn't make the grade for attractiveness but made up for it in some way by her bright and bubbly personality. And being "too confident" is just silly. Please don't act less confident to try to attract a man! Every man I know is attracted to confidence. All I can think of there is that your sister thinks you are maybe coming on to strong?
The best advice I can give you is what others have said: ignore what the women you have asked said, and ask some of your guy friends to be candid instead. And definitely give online dating a try.
posted by misha at 1:52 PM on May 3, 2010
Yes, this jumped out at me, too, as did your comment about the only men coming on to you seeming "creepy".
Is it possible that you find some men (especially those that pursue you, rather than the reverse) sexually threatening? Are you a little intimidated by sexually confident men? You don't have any sexual trauma in your own past, do you? Do you look on your lack of experience (which you mentioned in your question) as a point against you? It doesn't have to be. Lots of men would even consider that a plus.
Please understand: I do NOT think there is anything "wrong" with you! I just wonder if your man-meter is attuned to metrosexual (actually homosexual) or practically asexual guys for some reason.
Anyway, it's just a thought, and as said above, there's no way we can really tell what you are like from your question, since we don't really know and of course we are hearing your friends' perceptions filtered through your perspective.
By the way, I'd love to know what you mean by "unconventionally attractive". What does conventionally attractive mean to you? Or your friend? Did you ask her? Because I would be hard-pressed to say what I consider conventionally attractive, but I can't imagine telling a friend of mine that she didn't make the grade for attractiveness but made up for it in some way by her bright and bubbly personality. And being "too confident" is just silly. Please don't act less confident to try to attract a man! Every man I know is attracted to confidence. All I can think of there is that your sister thinks you are maybe coming on to strong?
The best advice I can give you is what others have said: ignore what the women you have asked said, and ask some of your guy friends to be candid instead. And definitely give online dating a try.
posted by misha at 1:52 PM on May 3, 2010
I could have written this ten months ago. I was 24, one terribly flawed long term relationship with a man (including suicide threats on his part, low self esteem, no sex) under my belt, I felt like I was always and invariably the pursuer, unconventionally attractive, "too" confident, "too" smart, only attracted creeps and/or much much older men. I had pretty much the same conversations with my friends (male and female) that you have. Consensus seemed to be nothing was wrong with me, I just was too something and it was maybe intimidating potential dates.
Solution? OK Cupid. Believe me, I was very skeptical at first. Very skeptical. Had to be pretty much forced to set up a profile and did so somewhat despondently. But, not only did it let me present myself to potential dates exactly as I was, not changing one iota of my personality to suit any one man/woman's particular taste, but it allowed me to look for dates outside of my circle of friends. I exchanged a couple emails with some people, nothing too outstanding, nothing too exciting, until one day I went on a date. One date. With one guy.
Long story short, we are so well suited for each other it is almost scary, we fell a little stupidly, madly, crazily in love, and he's moving in. We're practically married. We could do television commercials for online dating. Our friends happily mock us for it. It is amazing and outstanding and certainly not the typical result rate, but still. Awesome.
And you know what? Had I ran into him accidentally before hand? Probably would not have noticed him. I thought I had a type. I thought I only like men/women who did x, y, and z. Not so. I no one could like me; complicated, assertive, independent, unconventionally attractive me. But I put myself out there exactly as I was and - not surprisingly, come to think of it - I met someone who was entirely one hundred percent in love with me. Not an edited version of me. Just me. It works, I promise.
Good luck.
posted by lydhre at 1:57 PM on May 3, 2010 [7 favorites]
Solution? OK Cupid. Believe me, I was very skeptical at first. Very skeptical. Had to be pretty much forced to set up a profile and did so somewhat despondently. But, not only did it let me present myself to potential dates exactly as I was, not changing one iota of my personality to suit any one man/woman's particular taste, but it allowed me to look for dates outside of my circle of friends. I exchanged a couple emails with some people, nothing too outstanding, nothing too exciting, until one day I went on a date. One date. With one guy.
Long story short, we are so well suited for each other it is almost scary, we fell a little stupidly, madly, crazily in love, and he's moving in. We're practically married. We could do television commercials for online dating. Our friends happily mock us for it. It is amazing and outstanding and certainly not the typical result rate, but still. Awesome.
And you know what? Had I ran into him accidentally before hand? Probably would not have noticed him. I thought I had a type. I thought I only like men/women who did x, y, and z. Not so. I no one could like me; complicated, assertive, independent, unconventionally attractive me. But I put myself out there exactly as I was and - not surprisingly, come to think of it - I met someone who was entirely one hundred percent in love with me. Not an edited version of me. Just me. It works, I promise.
Good luck.
posted by lydhre at 1:57 PM on May 3, 2010 [7 favorites]
It seems like a good number of women are responding to this question. As a man, I'm seeing these elements in your question:
- "without compromising what I like about myself" - this is the key. Lead with it. If you are so sure what you like about yourself, revel in it. I (and many people, men and women) find it almost magnetically attractive.
- Labeling some guys as "creepy". What are they doing? Being too sexually aggressive? Crass? Dumb-asses? Or are they just being - possibly awkwardly - interested? It sounds to me that you are uncomfortable with sexual tension, which is going to make getting together with a sexually mature man a bit harder.
- "Crushes." Are for children. Don't crush on your friends, it is awkward all around. Go out and date scary-not-already-known-safe people, if you want to meet new men and possibly find a real love.
- "Not conventionally attractive" If you are healthy & fit, you are attractive to many men. In my personal "1-10 scale", any healthy person rates at least a 6. A healthy, fit person starts at a 7, regardless of body-type. It sounds like an excuse to not put yourself out in the scary dating world.
- Don't ask girlfriends for advice about what you are doing wrong with men. They aren't your customer, and many will lie out of niceness. Instead, ask one of those men who you admitted a crush on, one of those that wanted to stay friends. Tell him it isn't an indirect attempt to date him, but if he wants to be a friend, he can be honest, here's how ...
- I do like OKCupid. But be careful not to shut out too much diversity by insisting on certain demographics or opinions. We already know you aren't that good yet at picking men. Try a wider palette of men, you may be surprised at what you truly like.
posted by Invoke at 2:37 PM on May 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
- "without compromising what I like about myself" - this is the key. Lead with it. If you are so sure what you like about yourself, revel in it. I (and many people, men and women) find it almost magnetically attractive.
- Labeling some guys as "creepy". What are they doing? Being too sexually aggressive? Crass? Dumb-asses? Or are they just being - possibly awkwardly - interested? It sounds to me that you are uncomfortable with sexual tension, which is going to make getting together with a sexually mature man a bit harder.
- "Crushes." Are for children. Don't crush on your friends, it is awkward all around. Go out and date scary-not-already-known-safe people, if you want to meet new men and possibly find a real love.
- "Not conventionally attractive" If you are healthy & fit, you are attractive to many men. In my personal "1-10 scale", any healthy person rates at least a 6. A healthy, fit person starts at a 7, regardless of body-type. It sounds like an excuse to not put yourself out in the scary dating world.
- Don't ask girlfriends for advice about what you are doing wrong with men. They aren't your customer, and many will lie out of niceness. Instead, ask one of those men who you admitted a crush on, one of those that wanted to stay friends. Tell him it isn't an indirect attempt to date him, but if he wants to be a friend, he can be honest, here's how ...
- I do like OKCupid. But be careful not to shut out too much diversity by insisting on certain demographics or opinions. We already know you aren't that good yet at picking men. Try a wider palette of men, you may be surprised at what you truly like.
posted by Invoke at 2:37 PM on May 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
It won't really help you any to find out whether you're generally attractive, especially if you're just asking your female friends.
A. If you're unattractive, they will lie to spare your feelings because they're your friends (and if you're attractive, they don't have to).
B. They aren't your target audience
C. In the rare case that you are unattractive AND have a friend that will tell you that honestly, what do you expect you can do about it?
Finding the right person is a long-term project so it's natural to get frustrated sometimes, but nobody, NOBODY is so horribly unattractive that they will never find someone. Your success depends way more on your ability to figure out what you want, find it in potential dates, and maximize your throughput of guys that fit your criteria.
posted by nomad at 2:41 PM on May 3, 2010
A. If you're unattractive, they will lie to spare your feelings because they're your friends (and if you're attractive, they don't have to).
B. They aren't your target audience
C. In the rare case that you are unattractive AND have a friend that will tell you that honestly, what do you expect you can do about it?
Finding the right person is a long-term project so it's natural to get frustrated sometimes, but nobody, NOBODY is so horribly unattractive that they will never find someone. Your success depends way more on your ability to figure out what you want, find it in potential dates, and maximize your throughput of guys that fit your criteria.
posted by nomad at 2:41 PM on May 3, 2010
You must get this book: He's Just Not That Into You: The No-Excuses Truth to Understanding Guys.
Not only does it tell you the honest truth, it also tells you how to get what you want with actual research behind it. Good luck!
posted by Honkshu at 3:23 PM on May 3, 2010
Not only does it tell you the honest truth, it also tells you how to get what you want with actual research behind it. Good luck!
posted by Honkshu at 3:23 PM on May 3, 2010
Oops, this is the book I meant: Why Men Marry Some Women and Not Others: The Fascinating Research That Can Land You the Husband of Your Dreams, but the other one is good too!
posted by Honkshu at 3:38 PM on May 3, 2010
posted by Honkshu at 3:38 PM on May 3, 2010
You just haven't met the right guy yet.
One of my daughters had this problem-all the guys that liked her were creepy or weird or just...ugh. All of a sudden a nice, steady, stable, cute (CUTE) normal guy got interested in her, and voila.
Nothing at all wrong with her, but she needed to wait till the perfect guy for HER came along.
There's a reason that there's the saying that you gotta kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince. And since some people don't like kissing frogs....
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:09 PM on May 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
One of my daughters had this problem-all the guys that liked her were creepy or weird or just...ugh. All of a sudden a nice, steady, stable, cute (CUTE) normal guy got interested in her, and voila.
Nothing at all wrong with her, but she needed to wait till the perfect guy for HER came along.
There's a reason that there's the saying that you gotta kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince. And since some people don't like kissing frogs....
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:09 PM on May 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
My own suggestion, based on the limited information available here, is that you think about changing how and where you meet guys (and thus the kind of guys you meet)
This.
The only men who ever seem to hit on me are creepy.
Most men who hit on women ARE creepy, and the girls who get hit on the most aren't generally the most attractive girls; they're the girls that seem easiest to screw. You don't want to get hit on a lot.
Use your social network to find dates, or look online for people with similar interests (but know that "conventionally good-looking" people will have an easier time of it).
Better yet, when you see something you like, go for it.
posted by coolguymichael at 5:36 PM on May 3, 2010
This.
The only men who ever seem to hit on me are creepy.
Most men who hit on women ARE creepy, and the girls who get hit on the most aren't generally the most attractive girls; they're the girls that seem easiest to screw. You don't want to get hit on a lot.
Use your social network to find dates, or look online for people with similar interests (but know that "conventionally good-looking" people will have an easier time of it).
Better yet, when you see something you like, go for it.
posted by coolguymichael at 5:36 PM on May 3, 2010
Send me a picture if you wish (26, male, not single however) so I can rate your attractiveness if you want, however it really doesnt matter...you are the sum of all of your parts..
posted by The1andonly at 7:28 AM on May 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by The1andonly at 7:28 AM on May 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
nthing internet dating. A friend of mine (no really!) has been single the whole time I've known her - since we were 11. Whilst all the other girls in our group dated boys through 6th form or university she stayed single. Now we're 24, she's bought her own house and has lots going for her, basically everything except a boyfriend. A few months ago she signed up to this dating site, I think because it has a slightly older crowd and she prefers older men. She's been on at least two dates since and from what she's said the whole internet dating thing is a lot of fun.
It sounds like you're super confident and have great self-esteem, so why not just widen your circle of potential partners? Everyone on dating sites wants to go on dates and even if you don't meet anyone you really like, it'd give you plenty of practice :)
posted by cardamine at 8:42 AM on May 4, 2010
It sounds like you're super confident and have great self-esteem, so why not just widen your circle of potential partners? Everyone on dating sites wants to go on dates and even if you don't meet anyone you really like, it'd give you plenty of practice :)
posted by cardamine at 8:42 AM on May 4, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Perhaps step outside the friend zone, go pursue one of your hobbies and ask a guy you meet there to go on a date with you. Make sure it's clear that you're interested in more than friendship.
posted by jardinier at 11:28 AM on May 3, 2010 [2 favorites]