What is it I'm looking for?
May 2, 2010 1:19 PM Subscribe
I want to paint with my computer. I want a pen interface, a new laptop and the latest Photoshop which I'm VERY excited about.
I've been doing more and more digital work, and I've realized that I've reached a creative plateau with my current setup. I'd like to buy a laptop / intuos4 combo but I'm not sure if I'm looking in the right place. The local computer nerd store has recommended an Asus laptop that is so awesome it needs dual exhaust fans out the back. The Intuous4 medium or large looks like a good idea, but the whole setup including the new Photoshop will run around $3k. I'm not morally opposed to spending that kind of cash, but I just wonder if that's the right way to go. I'm not really interested in dabbling in a try-a-scaled-back-version-to-see-if-you-like-it setup, but I worry that $3k is overkill.
Any graphic designers or artists or resident geeks have ideas, advice?
Oh, and I'm a Windows user, but if someone made a convincing argument a Mac isn't totally out of the question.
I've been doing more and more digital work, and I've realized that I've reached a creative plateau with my current setup. I'd like to buy a laptop / intuos4 combo but I'm not sure if I'm looking in the right place. The local computer nerd store has recommended an Asus laptop that is so awesome it needs dual exhaust fans out the back. The Intuous4 medium or large looks like a good idea, but the whole setup including the new Photoshop will run around $3k. I'm not morally opposed to spending that kind of cash, but I just wonder if that's the right way to go. I'm not really interested in dabbling in a try-a-scaled-back-version-to-see-if-you-like-it setup, but I worry that $3k is overkill.
Any graphic designers or artists or resident geeks have ideas, advice?
Oh, and I'm a Windows user, but if someone made a convincing argument a Mac isn't totally out of the question.
Response by poster: I prefer a laptop because I go back and forth from home to office to studio. I wish I could just work in my studio every day, but I need flexibility in that regard. And I usually just hook my laptop up to a larger monitor if I need a larger screen. Corel might be something I explore later, but I'm very familiar with Photshop so that's my default. I can get the faculty discounts as well, so that will help.
posted by madred at 1:48 PM on May 2, 2010
posted by madred at 1:48 PM on May 2, 2010
For that price you could get 2 computers, leave on at home, and one at the office.
posted by blue_beetle at 1:53 PM on May 2, 2010
posted by blue_beetle at 1:53 PM on May 2, 2010
$3K doesn't strike me as overkill -- not when you factor in the cost of the tablet, Photoshop, and the machine.
Definitely get a Wacom tablet. The Intuos 4 should be a great tablet.
Viewing your work might be problematic on the laptop screen. I'd almost suggest spending a little extra and picking up a large screen monitor.
With respect to the computer: buy as much memory as possible. When you begin working with dozens of layers in Photoshop, the speed of the processor matters quite a bit less than the amount of fast memory available.
FWIW, I use a Wacom Cintiq 12WX, a Mac Pro, and a couple of widescreen monitors for my digital illustration work. I prefer the Mac because the OS seems to stay out of my way most of the time (among other reasons).
(Oh -- I should mention this, too. Recently, I began doing a lot of preliminary work on my iPhone using Steve Sprang's Brushes app. This is actually a great way to quickly conceptualize a larger illustration because you can play back the painting at higher resolutions once the file is transferred to a desktop computer. There are some examples up at my site. It's starting to look like an iPad could stand in for a lot of work I currently do on the tablet.)
posted by Kikkoman at 2:02 PM on May 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
Definitely get a Wacom tablet. The Intuos 4 should be a great tablet.
Viewing your work might be problematic on the laptop screen. I'd almost suggest spending a little extra and picking up a large screen monitor.
With respect to the computer: buy as much memory as possible. When you begin working with dozens of layers in Photoshop, the speed of the processor matters quite a bit less than the amount of fast memory available.
FWIW, I use a Wacom Cintiq 12WX, a Mac Pro, and a couple of widescreen monitors for my digital illustration work. I prefer the Mac because the OS seems to stay out of my way most of the time (among other reasons).
(Oh -- I should mention this, too. Recently, I began doing a lot of preliminary work on my iPhone using Steve Sprang's Brushes app. This is actually a great way to quickly conceptualize a larger illustration because you can play back the painting at higher resolutions once the file is transferred to a desktop computer. There are some examples up at my site. It's starting to look like an iPad could stand in for a lot of work I currently do on the tablet.)
posted by Kikkoman at 2:02 PM on May 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Kikkoman, the Cintiq looks like some weird hybrid between a tablet pc and the bamboo-type interface... is that right? i guess this is better than a tablet pc because then i don't have to rely entirely on the tablet. It's a pen interface with the benefit of better hand eye coordination, but then the Mac does all of your processing for you? If you're using widescreen monitors, why bother with the Cintiq? Why not just use an Intuos?
posted by madred at 2:12 PM on May 2, 2010
posted by madred at 2:12 PM on May 2, 2010
please have a look at artweaver. a friend found it very inspirational. and it's free. $3000 sounds like a lot of money, i'd be more inclined to spend less on the laptop, get a nice large external screen. maybe get 2 tablets so you don't have to lug or live without. or buy one of the higher end epson printers that will allow you to print your work out on large format at home.
also, the cheaper your laptop, the less pain you feel when someone knocks a cup of coffee over onto it. newegg is a great place to shop/check prices. their product reviews can be very helpful.
do try artweaver tho, that's the main reason i posted.
posted by kimyo at 2:20 PM on May 2, 2010
also, the cheaper your laptop, the less pain you feel when someone knocks a cup of coffee over onto it. newegg is a great place to shop/check prices. their product reviews can be very helpful.
do try artweaver tho, that's the main reason i posted.
posted by kimyo at 2:20 PM on May 2, 2010
Yep. The Cintiq is essentially just an Intuos tablet with a built-in display.
I originally got the monitors when I was still using an Intuos tablet. I swap between them and the Cintiq display as needed. A dedicated monitor tends to be better for doing detail work -- since one's hand tends to get in the way on the Cintiq.
posted by Kikkoman at 2:28 PM on May 2, 2010
I originally got the monitors when I was still using an Intuos tablet. I swap between them and the Cintiq display as needed. A dedicated monitor tends to be better for doing detail work -- since one's hand tends to get in the way on the Cintiq.
posted by Kikkoman at 2:28 PM on May 2, 2010
What ever you get, make sure you get a graphics card with 512MB. CS5 uses the GPU for a lot of stuff and a lot of that functionality will not work with less. Also, if you can afford to go 64 bit it does provide a significant speed increase, but to take advantage of it you need more RAM (more is better: 8GB great, 24GB even better).
posted by doctor_negative at 2:42 PM on May 2, 2010
posted by doctor_negative at 2:42 PM on May 2, 2010
I like my HP tm2. It's a convertible tabletPC that turns into a slate. What's interesting is that it has a dual screen tactile input: multitouch capacitive for finger swooshing, and a Wacom digitiser with stylus.
It runs one of the CULV Core2Duos, so its filter speed will tend to be quite slower than many of the latest multicore AMD or Intel chips. But its 10W CPU runs cool, is acceptably fast for me, has hybrid integrated/discrete3D (AMD) graphics, and can get 8 hours on a charge. With 8 GB of RAM loaded, it can hold quite a large image in RAM without paging and can feel quite peppy. It also has a 7200RPM disk drive, which also makes it feel fast. I gather for real speed, many people have replaced the drive with an SSD. Bonus: you can use some Cintiq and other Wacom stylii with it.
posted by meehawl at 3:13 PM on May 2, 2010
It runs one of the CULV Core2Duos, so its filter speed will tend to be quite slower than many of the latest multicore AMD or Intel chips. But its 10W CPU runs cool, is acceptably fast for me, has hybrid integrated/discrete3D (AMD) graphics, and can get 8 hours on a charge. With 8 GB of RAM loaded, it can hold quite a large image in RAM without paging and can feel quite peppy. It also has a 7200RPM disk drive, which also makes it feel fast. I gather for real speed, many people have replaced the drive with an SSD. Bonus: you can use some Cintiq and other Wacom stylii with it.
posted by meehawl at 3:13 PM on May 2, 2010
My sister, an animator, with a similar wishlist, also went with the HP tm2. It doesn't have quite as many layers of pressure sensitivity as a Cintiq, but I think it's 32 versus 64 or something like that, and she gets some really nice pictures out of it, and the tablet-that-turns-into-a-slate thing is super cool.
posted by Jeanne at 4:00 PM on May 2, 2010
posted by Jeanne at 4:00 PM on May 2, 2010
I do storyboards with Macbook Pro and a large size Cintiq (the discontinued 20WSX). I love the Cintiq for it's express buttons and touch strips. The buttons are customized hot keys and the touch strips are great for zooming in and out. I found that most (tablet) laptops and the 12" Cintiq didn't have enough screen resolution to completely display the interface I work with.
I tried an HP tablet but found that the glass was very thick and the curser calibration (lines up the pen to the to the curser) could only be adjusted for general navigation and once I tried to draw in Toonboom, the curser position would jump back to it's default relation. I though a tablet would be a great way to get work done while away from my desk but the lack of customizable buttons make it really too awkward to be useful.
The Macbook Pro works seamlessly with the Cintiq.
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:17 PM on May 2, 2010
I tried an HP tablet but found that the glass was very thick and the curser calibration (lines up the pen to the to the curser) could only be adjusted for general navigation and once I tried to draw in Toonboom, the curser position would jump back to it's default relation. I though a tablet would be a great way to get work done while away from my desk but the lack of customizable buttons make it really too awkward to be useful.
The Macbook Pro works seamlessly with the Cintiq.
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:17 PM on May 2, 2010
In addition to Photoshop, I might suggest looking into also using Corel Painter. And it looks like you can download and try a free 30 day trial.
posted by PlutoniumX at 6:52 PM on May 2, 2010
posted by PlutoniumX at 6:52 PM on May 2, 2010
Jeanne: "My sister, an animator, with a similar wishlist, also went with the HP tm2. It doesn't have quite as many layers of pressure sensitivity as a Cintiq, but I think it's 32 versus 64 or something like that, and she gets some really nice pictures out of it, and the tablet-that-turns-into-a-slate thing is super cool."
The tm2 is one of the first consumer devices to use Wacom's new integrated multitouch "EMR". As such, the tm2 supports 512 pressure levels, not the 256 of the previous generation Wacom tabletPC screens (but still below the 1,024 levels of the "professional" line). To ensure the full pressure support in Windows 7, it's necessary to ensure you have the latest drivers direct from Wacom, and not the rather borked ones from HP. Here's a useful FAQ about tablet PCs, with some details of the digitisers available. When you are working with a tabletPC in "painting" mode, it's important to disable or deactivate all the tabletPC functions and apps that are set up in the background to capture inking and doodles and suchlike. They tend to snap the cursor into a grid or align it, as one poster noted above.
I've booted the tm2 with OSX, just to see how it works. The graphics are not accelerated, and I can't get the pressure levels to work with the basic Wacom OSX drivers. I'm pretty sure someone with more patience than me will get this working.
Here's an artist's experience with the tm2.
posted by meehawl at 7:59 PM on May 2, 2010
The tm2 is one of the first consumer devices to use Wacom's new integrated multitouch "EMR". As such, the tm2 supports 512 pressure levels, not the 256 of the previous generation Wacom tabletPC screens (but still below the 1,024 levels of the "professional" line). To ensure the full pressure support in Windows 7, it's necessary to ensure you have the latest drivers direct from Wacom, and not the rather borked ones from HP. Here's a useful FAQ about tablet PCs, with some details of the digitisers available. When you are working with a tabletPC in "painting" mode, it's important to disable or deactivate all the tabletPC functions and apps that are set up in the background to capture inking and doodles and suchlike. They tend to snap the cursor into a grid or align it, as one poster noted above.
I've booted the tm2 with OSX, just to see how it works. The graphics are not accelerated, and I can't get the pressure levels to work with the basic Wacom OSX drivers. I'm pretty sure someone with more patience than me will get this working.
Here's an artist's experience with the tm2.
posted by meehawl at 7:59 PM on May 2, 2010
There's another issue that you should take into account when deciding about whether to get a Mac or a Windows machine, and this laptop in particular: how much memory can it support? You don't mention what Asus model you're considering, but looking at their site it looks like many of their "performance" laptops support either 4GB or 6GB. Then, you need to know what version of Windows will the laptop come with. I assume it's Windows 7, but is it 32-bit or 64-bit Windows 7?
This is important, since 32-bit Windows can only use ~3GB of memory. If you're planning to work with large Photoshop files with lots of layers, you want as much memory as possible, and 3GB isn't a lot of memory any more. Here's an article from Gizmodo talking about 64-bit Windows which very briefly talks about some of the possible issues. Driver incompatibility is still the biggest gotcha, it seems, so you'd have to consider that when purchasing peripherals like your tablet. Wacom's Windows 7 drivers are 64-bit compatible, but lesser brands may not be.
Getting 64-bit Windows pre-installed may be an option for you with this particular machine, or it may not... and you certainly don't want to mess with installing it yourself if you can avoid it.
Mac OS doesn't have this 32-bit/64-bit issue; whatever you can fit into the computer can be used by the OS.
posted by dammitjim at 8:44 PM on May 2, 2010
This is important, since 32-bit Windows can only use ~3GB of memory. If you're planning to work with large Photoshop files with lots of layers, you want as much memory as possible, and 3GB isn't a lot of memory any more. Here's an article from Gizmodo talking about 64-bit Windows which very briefly talks about some of the possible issues. Driver incompatibility is still the biggest gotcha, it seems, so you'd have to consider that when purchasing peripherals like your tablet. Wacom's Windows 7 drivers are 64-bit compatible, but lesser brands may not be.
Getting 64-bit Windows pre-installed may be an option for you with this particular machine, or it may not... and you certainly don't want to mess with installing it yourself if you can avoid it.
Mac OS doesn't have this 32-bit/64-bit issue; whatever you can fit into the computer can be used by the OS.
posted by dammitjim at 8:44 PM on May 2, 2010
i'm a digital artist. my home set up is a 24in imac and a 21in cintiq. sadly my work set up at the office is not as good because my company is cheap, i have some random dell machine, 2 samsung monitors, and an intuos 3, but the stuff i do at work isn't as cpu intensive as freelance illustration work i do on the side at home. however, before i was working with a macbook pro and an intuos 2 and they worked like a charm for doing what i needed to do.
posted by raw sugar at 10:42 AM on May 3, 2010
posted by raw sugar at 10:42 AM on May 3, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Mac Mini (2.66 Intel Core 2 Duo, 4 G ram)
Acer H233H 23" LCD monitor
Wacom Bamboo tablet
I am not sure why you would want a laptop when you are working with images, because screen size becomes very important. I have been using different Wacom Bamboo tablets for about a year and a half because I spec'd them for our student computer lab and they have been working quite well. I don't use the large sizes because when you are working digitally, you don't really need large movements : you can zoom out of the image and a small movement on the tablet is a large movement on the image.
My total cost for all of the above was around $1100. I haven't bought CS5 yet, but I will soon. I will likely get the CS5 Design Premium suite as I am eligible for the Faculty pricing.
I will say from looking at your Web site, that you might find that Corel Painter (which ships free with the Wacom tablets, I think) may have more of the traditional painterly tools that you are looking for. Some of my students would work back and forth between Corel and Photoshop to make their digital images...
Good luck!
posted by Slothrop at 1:37 PM on May 2, 2010