What word describes something that is simultaneously tongue-in-cheek and serious?
April 15, 2010 7:27 AM Subscribe
Is there a word for a piece of media (book, song, movie, etc.) that simultaneously sends up/parodies its genre and fits comfortably within it? What are some good examples?
Inspired by the opinion in the Glee thread that the show was both "taking a piss out of itself" and "taking itself seriously," I got to thinking about other examples and the lack of a word to categorize them.
Scream is both a parody of slasher films and a slasher film. The boy band 2ge+her was a purposeful parody of boy bands, but opened several shows for Britney Spears and put out 2 decently-selling records.
I have previously called these "euripidean," as (at least they told me in college) Euripides came along after all the conventions about Greek tragedy were already established, and his work often mocked those conventions but still worked squarely within them. But that is not the real word, and having to explain it every time I use it is not very helpful.
So, (a) is there a word for this, and (b) what are some other good examples?
Inspired by the opinion in the Glee thread that the show was both "taking a piss out of itself" and "taking itself seriously," I got to thinking about other examples and the lack of a word to categorize them.
Scream is both a parody of slasher films and a slasher film. The boy band 2ge+her was a purposeful parody of boy bands, but opened several shows for Britney Spears and put out 2 decently-selling records.
I have previously called these "euripidean," as (at least they told me in college) Euripides came along after all the conventions about Greek tragedy were already established, and his work often mocked those conventions but still worked squarely within them. But that is not the real word, and having to explain it every time I use it is not very helpful.
So, (a) is there a word for this, and (b) what are some other good examples?
And you may consider Lady Gaga as well. She has had many hits, but seems to be extremely savvy about fame/culture and almost a meta pop star.
posted by amicamentis at 7:31 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by amicamentis at 7:31 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Disney's "Enchanted" is a good example.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:31 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:31 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Moulin Rouge, all the way.
posted by hermitosis at 7:33 AM on April 15, 2010
posted by hermitosis at 7:33 AM on April 15, 2010
What you're talking about is is in the neighborhood of a pastiche, by the way.
posted by kindall at 7:34 AM on April 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by kindall at 7:34 AM on April 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Dread Zeppelin, a band that did (does?) reggae covers/mashups (long before the Internet mashup thign) of Led Zeppelin fronted by an Elvis impersonator. They're somewhat of a parody, but they're also a damn good band. There are other people doing similar things with other bands and styles such as Hayseed Dixie (bluegrass AC/DC covers).
posted by bondcliff at 7:36 AM on April 15, 2010
posted by bondcliff at 7:36 AM on April 15, 2010
For movies, Galaxy Quest comes to mind.
posted by The Deej at 7:37 AM on April 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by The Deej at 7:37 AM on April 15, 2010 [3 favorites]
(a) I can't think of a good term for this.
(b) The Princess Bride and Galaxy Quest both fall into this category I'd say. Both good fun to watch.
posted by crocomancer at 7:39 AM on April 15, 2010
(b) The Princess Bride and Galaxy Quest both fall into this category I'd say. Both good fun to watch.
posted by crocomancer at 7:39 AM on April 15, 2010
Any discussion of this must include Shaun of the Dead, which is simultaneously a brilliant parody of zombie movies and an excellent zombie movie itself.
I can't think of a good term for such a thing, though.
posted by cerebus19 at 7:39 AM on April 15, 2010 [5 favorites]
I can't think of a good term for such a thing, though.
posted by cerebus19 at 7:39 AM on April 15, 2010 [5 favorites]
Ovid's Amores is a 2000-year-old example.
posted by oinopaponton at 7:43 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by oinopaponton at 7:43 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Lady Gaga isn't just a good example - she's a great example. The best description I've read is that she's simultaneously contributing to and commenting on pop music.
posted by brozek at 7:49 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by brozek at 7:49 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
The TV show Community does this - makes fun of sitcom conventions while being a fairly conventional (albeit hilarious) sitcom.
posted by lunasol at 7:49 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by lunasol at 7:49 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
(b) Dethklok
posted by syntheticfaith at 7:49 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by syntheticfaith at 7:49 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Shaun of the Dead is to zombie movies as Hot Fuzz is to buddy cop movies.
posted by The Winsome Parker Lewis at 7:51 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by The Winsome Parker Lewis at 7:51 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Tenacious D parodies many different styles but are successful as a band as well. I really don't know what this would be called, but 'self-aware' would be the closest match in my mind.
posted by amicamentis at 7:53 AM on April 15, 2010
posted by amicamentis at 7:53 AM on April 15, 2010
Moulin Rouge is hardly a send-up of the genre of musicals. It's everything wrong with musicals.
I came in to say Shaun and Galaxy Quest, but I was beat to it.
posted by CarlRossi at 7:58 AM on April 15, 2010
I came in to say Shaun and Galaxy Quest, but I was beat to it.
posted by CarlRossi at 7:58 AM on April 15, 2010
The Daily Show
Red Dwarf
I'm also not coming up with a good term, "reverent parody" is the best I've come up with.
posted by ecurtz at 7:59 AM on April 15, 2010
Red Dwarf
I'm also not coming up with a good term, "reverent parody" is the best I've come up with.
posted by ecurtz at 7:59 AM on April 15, 2010
I doubt there's a specific name for it beyond standard terms like "parody," "send-up," "take-off," "spoof," etc., since it's kind of inherent in the idea of parody that you're half-serious about the execution -- if you're doing a good job of it, that is. ("Pastiche" isn't really what you're looking for; that word should be reserved for a work that's not just derivative but that pieces together many disparate sources.)
There are a LOT of Beatles' songs (from Rubbert Soul onward) that would seem to fit what you're looking for.
For instance, "Honey Pie" from the White Album is simultaneously a take-off of old-time jazz, but also an honest attempt to make a good jazz song. "When I'm 64" is similar.
"Helter Skelter" and "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" do it with hard rock.
"Got to Get You Into My Life" does it with Motown.
"Back in the USSR" does it with the Beach Boys/Chuck Berry style.
The keyboard solo in "In My Life" does it with Baroque.
The Beatles even did it with their own music on "The One After 909," which is simultaneously a revived leftover from their early days while also an ironic look back on themselves long after they stopped being the four mop-topped lads in identical suits.
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:59 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
There are a LOT of Beatles' songs (from Rubbert Soul onward) that would seem to fit what you're looking for.
For instance, "Honey Pie" from the White Album is simultaneously a take-off of old-time jazz, but also an honest attempt to make a good jazz song. "When I'm 64" is similar.
"Helter Skelter" and "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" do it with hard rock.
"Got to Get You Into My Life" does it with Motown.
"Back in the USSR" does it with the Beach Boys/Chuck Berry style.
The keyboard solo in "In My Life" does it with Baroque.
The Beatles even did it with their own music on "The One After 909," which is simultaneously a revived leftover from their early days while also an ironic look back on themselves long after they stopped being the four mop-topped lads in identical suits.
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:59 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Terry Pratchett's Discworld series sends up the fantasy genre while adding to it.
posted by lazydog at 8:00 AM on April 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by lazydog at 8:00 AM on April 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Spinal Tap is a parody of heavy metal bands, and their songs are as good as/better than many "real" metal bands.
"Self-aware" is what I would use to describe the concept.
posted by jbickers at 8:19 AM on April 15, 2010
"Self-aware" is what I would use to describe the concept.
posted by jbickers at 8:19 AM on April 15, 2010
you might call this "commercial parody." parody that doesn't fit comfortably in a genre generally isn't commercially viable in the long term, or at all. the only people interested in purchasing/consuming parodies of a genre are the people interested in that genre to begin with, generally. this doesn't apply to comedy programs like SNL, since people are intentionally consuming the larger show, not the specific parody.
posted by acidic at 8:30 AM on April 15, 2010
posted by acidic at 8:30 AM on April 15, 2010
I think that's what a parody is. What parodies have not ostensibly been members of the genre they parody? Otherwise you're just making fun of something.
posted by cmoj at 8:42 AM on April 15, 2010
posted by cmoj at 8:42 AM on April 15, 2010
Not sure it quite qualifies, but I've known a few law-enforcement types who love love love "Super Troopers."
posted by rhizome at 8:48 AM on April 15, 2010
posted by rhizome at 8:48 AM on April 15, 2010
the first example that popped in my head was The Song That Goes Like This from Spamalot
posted by TheOtherGuy at 8:51 AM on April 15, 2010
posted by TheOtherGuy at 8:51 AM on April 15, 2010
Moulin Rouge is hardly a send-up of the genre of musicals. It's everything wrong with musicals.
Are you kidding? It begins with a playful deconstruction of the lyrics of "The Sound of Music", and the plot revolves around an elaborate musical theatre blockbuster strung together out of all the cliches that the characters can think up in 30 seconds.
The arguments over whether the ending of their play is "realistic", the struggles between artist and patron, the recycling of every overblown romantic ballad from the past four decades into an orgiastic parody of "love" -- it's complete satire, though not a cruel one.
posted by hermitosis at 8:54 AM on April 15, 2010
Are you kidding? It begins with a playful deconstruction of the lyrics of "The Sound of Music", and the plot revolves around an elaborate musical theatre blockbuster strung together out of all the cliches that the characters can think up in 30 seconds.
The arguments over whether the ending of their play is "realistic", the struggles between artist and patron, the recycling of every overblown romantic ballad from the past four decades into an orgiastic parody of "love" -- it's complete satire, though not a cruel one.
posted by hermitosis at 8:54 AM on April 15, 2010
"Deconstruction" isn't exactly right for this sort of thing, but it was the first thing I thought of, and it's a similar idea.
A couple examples I came up with. One good, one that might be sketchy.
2007's Bioshock, for Xbox 360 and PC (and later PS3) does this with the concept of a linear game. The game itself is extremely linear (you start at point A, travel on to point B and point C and so on), but you're given a ton of freedom as to things like combat. There are giant enemies called Big Daddies who are fast and strong as hell. You can go in guns blazing and hope you survive long enough to kill them. Or you can tag them so that when they walk by security cameras, they're beset by flying gun turrets while you sit back and watch. Or you can figure out the path they walk, and then set a hallway with electric tripwire and proximity mines and other goodies.
In my mind (yours my vary), Arrested Development does this rather brilliantly to sitcoms. There's the large extended family living under one roof, like Full House, each with their own quirks...except in this case, said quirks are exaggerated to the max. There's the narrator, except he's completely self-aware. There's the episode ("Save Our Bluths") where they lampoon the steps shows go to to try and stay on the air...except that they were commenting on their own tenuous renewal situation. It skewers the American sitcom, except that it's rightly considered one of the best sitcoms of all time.
posted by andrewcilento at 9:02 AM on April 15, 2010
A couple examples I came up with. One good, one that might be sketchy.
2007's Bioshock, for Xbox 360 and PC (and later PS3) does this with the concept of a linear game. The game itself is extremely linear (you start at point A, travel on to point B and point C and so on), but you're given a ton of freedom as to things like combat. There are giant enemies called Big Daddies who are fast and strong as hell. You can go in guns blazing and hope you survive long enough to kill them. Or you can tag them so that when they walk by security cameras, they're beset by flying gun turrets while you sit back and watch. Or you can figure out the path they walk, and then set a hallway with electric tripwire and proximity mines and other goodies.
In my mind (yours my vary), Arrested Development does this rather brilliantly to sitcoms. There's the large extended family living under one roof, like Full House, each with their own quirks...except in this case, said quirks are exaggerated to the max. There's the narrator, except he's completely self-aware. There's the episode ("Save Our Bluths") where they lampoon the steps shows go to to try and stay on the air...except that they were commenting on their own tenuous renewal situation. It skewers the American sitcom, except that it's rightly considered one of the best sitcoms of all time.
posted by andrewcilento at 9:02 AM on April 15, 2010
Twin Peaks does a great job
of simulaneously lampooning and celebrating its soap opera plot by including those hilarious Invitation To Love clips.
Poor Chet!
posted by TrialByMedia at 9:27 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
of simulaneously lampooning and celebrating its soap opera plot by including those hilarious Invitation To Love clips.
Poor Chet!
posted by TrialByMedia at 9:27 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Lots of good examples here but I haven't really heard "the word" yet. I would say that it has something to do with post-modernism but that's not even a proper word ... and POP WILL EAT ITSELF is a brilliant example, as is The KLF (yes, as a matter of fact, that is Deep Purple's Ian Gillan hitting the high notes).
posted by philip-random at 9:27 AM on April 15, 2010
posted by philip-random at 9:27 AM on April 15, 2010
I also just remembered A Manifesto for The New Sincerity, by Jesse Thorn. There's a lot of overlap between your question and his article, I think.
posted by andrewcilento at 9:40 AM on April 15, 2010
posted by andrewcilento at 9:40 AM on April 15, 2010
Maybe this is because the fp obit post made it particularly salient, but I always thought Type O Negative was like that.
posted by lizjohn at 9:50 AM on April 15, 2010
posted by lizjohn at 9:50 AM on April 15, 2010
Ween is the first example that sprang to my mind. Many of their albums easily jump between genres from song to song, and it's often tough to tell parody from homage.
Their album 12 Golden Country Greats is a pretty good Country album.
posted by banwa at 9:52 AM on April 15, 2010
Their album 12 Golden Country Greats is a pretty good Country album.
posted by banwa at 9:52 AM on April 15, 2010
Can't help on the proper word, but Evil Dead, Evil Dead 2, and Army of Darkness (in order of increasing silliness) are good examples.
posted by echo target at 10:12 AM on April 15, 2010
posted by echo target at 10:12 AM on April 15, 2010
Top Secret:
Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid
posted by kirkaracha at 10:15 AM on April 15, 2010
Nick Rivers: Look. I'm not the first guy who fell in love with a girl he met at a restaurant who then turned out to be the daughter of a kidnapped scientist only to lose her to her childhood lover who she'd last seen on a deserted island and who turned out fifteen years later to be the leader of the French underground.Airplane
Hillary Flammond: I know, but it all sounds like some bad movie.
[Long pause. Both look at camera]
Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid
posted by kirkaracha at 10:15 AM on April 15, 2010
I'm not sure it's an exact fit, but the Affectionate Parody article at TV Tropes seems close—at the very least there's a good amount of overlap between that and what you're describing.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:58 AM on April 15, 2010
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 10:58 AM on April 15, 2010
Not sure what the word you're looking for is, but Reggie Watts' F*ck Sh*t Stack is a pretty good example of what you describe.
posted by zen_spider at 11:18 AM on April 15, 2010
posted by zen_spider at 11:18 AM on April 15, 2010
Snow Crash probably counts as both Cyberpunk and a parody of Cyberpunk.
posted by suetanvil at 2:35 PM on April 15, 2010
posted by suetanvil at 2:35 PM on April 15, 2010
("Pastiche" isn't really what you're looking for; that word should be reserved for a work that's not just derivative but that pieces together many disparate sources.)
A pastiche can be a send-up or a mash-up. It doesn't have to be both. I think it's a good term to describe what you're talking about, but it's not necessarily exclusive. The second OED definition is "A work, esp. of literature, created in the style of someone or something else; a work that humorously exaggerates or parodies a particular style." Wikipedia has numerous examples.
posted by bokinney at 5:26 PM on April 15, 2010
A pastiche can be a send-up or a mash-up. It doesn't have to be both. I think it's a good term to describe what you're talking about, but it's not necessarily exclusive. The second OED definition is "A work, esp. of literature, created in the style of someone or something else; a work that humorously exaggerates or parodies a particular style." Wikipedia has numerous examples.
posted by bokinney at 5:26 PM on April 15, 2010
The South Park movie! Trey Parker is a huge fan of musicals, and the songs in the movie pay homage to many of the traditional styles; "Uncle Fucker" is shades of Oklahoma, "Mountain Town" sounds like the first song in basically any musical (and is definitely a wink toward "Belle" from Beauty and the Beast), and "La Resistance" is a blatant homage to "One Day More" from Les Miserables, even using the same choreography at one point.
posted by sarahsynonymous at 5:31 PM on April 15, 2010
posted by sarahsynonymous at 5:31 PM on April 15, 2010
I always think of these sorts of things as being "postmodern", but freely admit I really don't understand anything about postmodernism (despite long drunk conversations with self-identified postmodernists at university), and so suspect that I'm wilfully using the term incorrectly (which also strikes me as being postmodern, etc.).
But I'll also echo the point that good satire/parody will inevitably be a good example of the genre that it's sending up. So I'm not convinced we really need a new term to describe it.
posted by damonism at 5:47 PM on April 15, 2010
But I'll also echo the point that good satire/parody will inevitably be a good example of the genre that it's sending up. So I'm not convinced we really need a new term to describe it.
posted by damonism at 5:47 PM on April 15, 2010
But I'll also echo the point that good satire/parody will inevitably be a good example of the genre that it's sending up.
I don't think it's that cut-and-dried—Airplane is a great parody of disaster movies but isn't a good example of one, RENO 911! isn't a good example of a "you-are-there" reality show, etc.
posted by Lazlo at 1:14 AM on April 16, 2010
I don't think it's that cut-and-dried—Airplane is a great parody of disaster movies but isn't a good example of one, RENO 911! isn't a good example of a "you-are-there" reality show, etc.
posted by Lazlo at 1:14 AM on April 16, 2010
Silence, The Musical is simultaneously hilarious parody and bang-on musical theatre.
The falsetto chord resolution at the end of If I Could Smell Her Cunt! The glorious melodic mocking of the victim's shrieks in Put The Fucking Lotion In The Basket! It's GENIUS.
previously x x
posted by Sallyfur at 5:15 AM on April 16, 2010
The falsetto chord resolution at the end of If I Could Smell Her Cunt! The glorious melodic mocking of the victim's shrieks in Put The Fucking Lotion In The Basket! It's GENIUS.
previously x x
posted by Sallyfur at 5:15 AM on April 16, 2010
A pastiche can be a send-up or a mash-up. It doesn't have to be both. I think it's a good term to describe what you're talking about, but it's not necessarily exclusive. The second OED definition is "A work, esp. of literature, created in the style of someone or something else; a work that humorously exaggerates or parodies a particular style."
Of course you're right in the sense that anyone is free to use whatever word they want.
But there's actually a good reason to limit "pastiche" to a work that draws on many disparate sources: this is, as far as I know, the only word that means this. ("Mash-up" is related but not the same thing.) If "pastiche" is identical to "parody," that gives the language less expressive power, since "parody" is already a word (and so are "send-up," "spoof," etc.).
Similarly, "nostalgia" used to mean "homesick" instead of "longing for the past," but it's a good thing that the language evolved to differentiate between these words. There already was a word "homesick," so it didn't do much good to also have "nostalgia." By the same token, "pastiche" will be most valuable if we recognize its unique meaning and keep it separate from "parody."
Dictionary definitions tend to be very liberal/descriptivist, so I'm not convinced by the OED.
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:39 AM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Of course you're right in the sense that anyone is free to use whatever word they want.
But there's actually a good reason to limit "pastiche" to a work that draws on many disparate sources: this is, as far as I know, the only word that means this. ("Mash-up" is related but not the same thing.) If "pastiche" is identical to "parody," that gives the language less expressive power, since "parody" is already a word (and so are "send-up," "spoof," etc.).
Similarly, "nostalgia" used to mean "homesick" instead of "longing for the past," but it's a good thing that the language evolved to differentiate between these words. There already was a word "homesick," so it didn't do much good to also have "nostalgia." By the same token, "pastiche" will be most valuable if we recognize its unique meaning and keep it separate from "parody."
Dictionary definitions tend to be very liberal/descriptivist, so I'm not convinced by the OED.
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:39 AM on April 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by amicamentis at 7:28 AM on April 15, 2010