Are my GRE scores good enough?
April 8, 2010 6:18 AM Subscribe
GRE-filter: are my GRE scores good enough for Ivy-League / "top 10" American schools?
In 2008, I got 690/710/5.5 (verbal / quantitative / analytical) on my GREs.
I am currently halfway through my MA at a major Canadian university (I am Canadian), and am considering doctoral studies.
Ultimately, if I decide to do a PhD, this probably means gunning for an academic position in the end, and I would be determined to max out both the experience and my chances of coming back to Canada and securing a placement in one of the major universities in the more liveable cities. This means, for better or worse, applying to "prestige" schools.
Assuming I have good letters of recommendation, good (but not extensive, I'm in my early 20s) professional experience, demonstrated research potential, okay undergrad grades (~3.7) and excellent grad level grades (>4.0), would I be competitive with those GRE scores? I would prefer not to take the test again, but will if I have to.
NB: I'll probably be applying to environmental studies-type programs.
In 2008, I got 690/710/5.5 (verbal / quantitative / analytical) on my GREs.
I am currently halfway through my MA at a major Canadian university (I am Canadian), and am considering doctoral studies.
Ultimately, if I decide to do a PhD, this probably means gunning for an academic position in the end, and I would be determined to max out both the experience and my chances of coming back to Canada and securing a placement in one of the major universities in the more liveable cities. This means, for better or worse, applying to "prestige" schools.
Assuming I have good letters of recommendation, good (but not extensive, I'm in my early 20s) professional experience, demonstrated research potential, okay undergrad grades (~3.7) and excellent grad level grades (>4.0), would I be competitive with those GRE scores? I would prefer not to take the test again, but will if I have to.
NB: I'll probably be applying to environmental studies-type programs.
If you're looking at a science-type program, the top schools have average GRE quant scores in excess of 750, though verbal scores are way lower than that.
Do some googling.
posted by valkyryn at 6:38 AM on April 8, 2010
Do some googling.
posted by valkyryn at 6:38 AM on April 8, 2010
Can you explain your grading scale? Where I come from, 4.0 is perfect.
posted by schmod at 6:40 AM on April 8, 2010
posted by schmod at 6:40 AM on April 8, 2010
Information on average GRE scores and such is often hard to find, but out there, since departmental web pages are often poorly maintained. I didn't realize my current department had that information on its web page until sometime in my second year. My point is that it might take a while to find this data.
posted by madcaptenor at 7:11 AM on April 8, 2010
posted by madcaptenor at 7:11 AM on April 8, 2010
From the original poster:
I believe our GPA system is the same as in the states, but I have gotten mostly A+'s at the grad level and I believe some universities (possibly mine) award >4.0 scores for A+'s.posted by mathowie at 7:22 AM on April 8, 2010
My training is in environmental ecology and anthropology, so the program would be interdisciplinary, but I imagine would veer more towards qualitative than quantitative research.
I think someone told me that even if I retake the GRE, universities will still be able to see my earlier score. Am I "stuck" with this, then?
From my longstanding foray into applying to environmental graduate programs- departments have a minimum cut off GRE score, where below that they'll just throw out your application and not look at it. I've heard 1200 combined verbal/quantitative thrown out there for a top environmental policy program before. Everyone I've talked to said that the GRE is a way to reduce the number of applications they need to look at, but doing exceptionally well on it will not make up for other shortcomings on your application. From the people I've talked to, the most important factors for admittance are 1) personal statement 2) letters of recommendation 3) research/work experience.
Personally, I would be happy with those scores.
More academically immersed people can comment on this better than I - but the prestige of your adviser (his connections and name recognition) can heavily impact your future job opportunities in academia, so researching potential advisers is as important as potential programs.
posted by nowoutside at 7:32 AM on April 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Personally, I would be happy with those scores.
More academically immersed people can comment on this better than I - but the prestige of your adviser (his connections and name recognition) can heavily impact your future job opportunities in academia, so researching potential advisers is as important as potential programs.
posted by nowoutside at 7:32 AM on April 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
You are stuck with them; however, depending on the school and the improvement in scores, it might not matter or make you look good. For PhD programs they are really much more interested in what you have done in your field than they are in your GRE score. That being said, higher is definitely better.
If I was advising a student interested in the same field as you I would definitely want to see the Quant score closer to 750 not too hard to get with some practice. The more problematic area is the verbal score. It should be in the same range, but improvements in Verbal typically take more time and effort. The 750+ Quant science background guys are a dime a dozen. Therefore, raising the Verbal makes you stand out more.
However, to truly differentiate yourself the most important thing is to make your life a story in which the program you are applying to is a major stepping stone on the road to success. I just received word from a student yesterday that she was accepted at Harvard and Wharton with a score on the GMAT that many would say is untenable when looking at the averages. Her secret was creating a sincere life story and selling it to the schools. Her story emphasized the aspects of her background that would be attractive to each individual school and in short supply in comparison to other applicants. This meant matching her applications and strategies to each individual program.
The bottom line is remember in Grad school applications it really is about selling yourself to the program. When looked at from that perspective you have a lot more options. The only problem is it is a lot more work than simply raising a test score.
The best advice I can give is to tell you to research the departments you wish to attend and find a field related reason to begin contacting a professor in that department. If you can prove your chops to one of the people you will be working and studying with, he or she will be more likely to put in a good word for your application when it comes through.
Disclaimer: I work for a test preparation and academic advising company so may be biased in how much time and effort should be placed in the application process. Plenty of people do get in to great programs by simply filling out applications and getting high test scores.
posted by wobumingbai at 7:33 AM on April 8, 2010
If I was advising a student interested in the same field as you I would definitely want to see the Quant score closer to 750 not too hard to get with some practice. The more problematic area is the verbal score. It should be in the same range, but improvements in Verbal typically take more time and effort. The 750+ Quant science background guys are a dime a dozen. Therefore, raising the Verbal makes you stand out more.
However, to truly differentiate yourself the most important thing is to make your life a story in which the program you are applying to is a major stepping stone on the road to success. I just received word from a student yesterday that she was accepted at Harvard and Wharton with a score on the GMAT that many would say is untenable when looking at the averages. Her secret was creating a sincere life story and selling it to the schools. Her story emphasized the aspects of her background that would be attractive to each individual school and in short supply in comparison to other applicants. This meant matching her applications and strategies to each individual program.
The bottom line is remember in Grad school applications it really is about selling yourself to the program. When looked at from that perspective you have a lot more options. The only problem is it is a lot more work than simply raising a test score.
The best advice I can give is to tell you to research the departments you wish to attend and find a field related reason to begin contacting a professor in that department. If you can prove your chops to one of the people you will be working and studying with, he or she will be more likely to put in a good word for your application when it comes through.
Disclaimer: I work for a test preparation and academic advising company so may be biased in how much time and effort should be placed in the application process. Plenty of people do get in to great programs by simply filling out applications and getting high test scores.
posted by wobumingbai at 7:33 AM on April 8, 2010
Different universities view GRE scores in different ways.
Universities can see your past gre scores every time, usually limited to the last 5 years I believe (as each gre score is valid for 5 years from the date it is taken).
Some universities take in the latest attempt score of the GRE,
some universities take the highest score of all attempts at the GRE.
Your best bet is to talk to them about it.
Usually, they have an average posted on the website and if they are not disclosing it on the website, then their averages could be lower than usual.
If you retake the GRE and score higher, that's a win win situation.
Re: your GPA system, I wonder if you would have to get it evaluated by an evaluation service agency? If A+s give you a 4.0+, then when does it stop at 5.0? (I'm curious and it seemed like something to ponder about, mefi mail me if you want).
posted by iNfo.Pump at 7:33 AM on April 8, 2010
Universities can see your past gre scores every time, usually limited to the last 5 years I believe (as each gre score is valid for 5 years from the date it is taken).
Some universities take in the latest attempt score of the GRE,
some universities take the highest score of all attempts at the GRE.
Your best bet is to talk to them about it.
Usually, they have an average posted on the website and if they are not disclosing it on the website, then their averages could be lower than usual.
If you retake the GRE and score higher, that's a win win situation.
Re: your GPA system, I wonder if you would have to get it evaluated by an evaluation service agency? If A+s give you a 4.0+, then when does it stop at 5.0? (I'm curious and it seemed like something to ponder about, mefi mail me if you want).
posted by iNfo.Pump at 7:33 AM on April 8, 2010
Professor who has been through the grad application process and sat on admission committees. In my area (computer science) your grades and scores are good enough for you to be considered based on the other things on your record. Will you have good letters of recommendation? Can you point to past successful research work in the area? Has your school sent students to the program you want to apply to in the past, and were they successful? Do you have an advisor who has worked with faculty at the program you want to attend? All those things (and more) are factors in the admissions decision.
I'll also mention that in my experience it is a little bit random. Different schools have differing needs. Small programs need students who are clearly going to succeed at research, and they have little room for error in admissions. Larger schools that do a lot of teaching and need teaching assistants will be more flexible, and being a native or excellent english speaker can help here.
I'd recommend applying to many places. It is expensive, but will give you the most options for the future. If possible, I'd recommend visiting the schools before applying. Talk to the graduate secretary or director. They can tell you what they look for and what students who get accepted have for records. It will also allow you to write more specific things for the admissions essay, as you can talk to current faculty and students while you are there.
posted by procrastination at 7:39 AM on April 8, 2010
I'll also mention that in my experience it is a little bit random. Different schools have differing needs. Small programs need students who are clearly going to succeed at research, and they have little room for error in admissions. Larger schools that do a lot of teaching and need teaching assistants will be more flexible, and being a native or excellent english speaker can help here.
I'd recommend applying to many places. It is expensive, but will give you the most options for the future. If possible, I'd recommend visiting the schools before applying. Talk to the graduate secretary or director. They can tell you what they look for and what students who get accepted have for records. It will also allow you to write more specific things for the admissions essay, as you can talk to current faculty and students while you are there.
posted by procrastination at 7:39 AM on April 8, 2010
are my GRE scores good enough for Ivy-League / "top 10" American schools?
GREs within a certain range (i.e. good enough) are basically irrelevant for graduate admissions in my area (I am at a well-ranked school), though this probably varies by field. In our candidate pool, for our purposes, your scores would fall into this category and we wouldn't pay much attention to them after assessing that. (One exception is that really really high scores will stand out). I'm not in a field related to environmental studies, though, so the moral is really you need to ask someone who is. Have you considered talking to a current advisor about this?
if I decide to do a PhD, this probably means gunning for an academic position in the end, and I would be determined to max out both the experience and my chances of coming back to Canada and securing a placement in one of the major universities in the more liveable cities. This means, for better or worse, applying to "prestige" schools.
This is a misconception. Prestige of your department in your field, and your advisor in your field, are much more important to getting a job than prestige of the school. For reasons of money the two sometimes do coincide, but not always. For instance, in my field students from certain public state schools which are decently ranked on the whole but not exactly prestige schools as such, are much more likely to get jobs than students from e.g. Harvard.
posted by advil at 7:48 AM on April 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
GREs within a certain range (i.e. good enough) are basically irrelevant for graduate admissions in my area (I am at a well-ranked school), though this probably varies by field. In our candidate pool, for our purposes, your scores would fall into this category and we wouldn't pay much attention to them after assessing that. (One exception is that really really high scores will stand out). I'm not in a field related to environmental studies, though, so the moral is really you need to ask someone who is. Have you considered talking to a current advisor about this?
if I decide to do a PhD, this probably means gunning for an academic position in the end, and I would be determined to max out both the experience and my chances of coming back to Canada and securing a placement in one of the major universities in the more liveable cities. This means, for better or worse, applying to "prestige" schools.
This is a misconception. Prestige of your department in your field, and your advisor in your field, are much more important to getting a job than prestige of the school. For reasons of money the two sometimes do coincide, but not always. For instance, in my field students from certain public state schools which are decently ranked on the whole but not exactly prestige schools as such, are much more likely to get jobs than students from e.g. Harvard.
posted by advil at 7:48 AM on April 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Whose research really excites you? With whom would you really like to study? Figure this out and include it in your application essay. Better yet, start corresponding with some of the people whose work really interests you. Ask them smart questions about their work before you ask them about the possibility of working with them.
If your focus is qualitative research then your writing skills are going to be critical.
posted by mareli at 7:55 AM on April 8, 2010
If your focus is qualitative research then your writing skills are going to be critical.
posted by mareli at 7:55 AM on April 8, 2010
My grad department (social sciences), like nowoutside talked about above, had a minimum GRE requirement. If you were below this, your application got thrown out without further review (except in the occasional exceptional non-native english speaker case). If you were above this, nobody ever looked at your score again. Your scores well qualify you.
For the record, my department barely looked at GPA also -- statement of purpose (did you fit well with a prof), research experience, and recommendations were all they really cared about, though more than anything having a relationship with a professor (which means emailing/calling them and beginning this relationship, and how you could be a part of it in the long term) is how you get in to grad school.
posted by brainmouse at 8:15 AM on April 8, 2010
For the record, my department barely looked at GPA also -- statement of purpose (did you fit well with a prof), research experience, and recommendations were all they really cared about, though more than anything having a relationship with a professor (which means emailing/calling them and beginning this relationship, and how you could be a part of it in the long term) is how you get in to grad school.
posted by brainmouse at 8:15 AM on April 8, 2010
(and because I didn't mention it... it was an Ivy League school)
posted by brainmouse at 8:15 AM on April 8, 2010
posted by brainmouse at 8:15 AM on April 8, 2010
Match trumps scores.
GREs are a weeder.
Work on searching for people you want to work with and write papers (and present/publish them) based on their work.
FWIW, Ivy doesn't mean academic job.
posted by k8t at 9:13 AM on April 8, 2010
GREs are a weeder.
Work on searching for people you want to work with and write papers (and present/publish them) based on their work.
FWIW, Ivy doesn't mean academic job.
posted by k8t at 9:13 AM on April 8, 2010
Just because I happened to know where it is on the Grad School webpage, and it's next to impossible to find unless you do, here are the stats for admitted students for the "top ranked" Ecology and Environmental Science/Policy programs here at Duke. Your scores are close to the range. But you can also see how few people are admitted. Every single one of those people had high GREs and GPA and research background, but what got them in was having an advisor who wanted to work with them, which usually means having a specific project pretty well thought out before they got here and persuading an advisor and the admissions committee that they are someone who can do such a project.
And as someone about to defend my dissertation I can testify that the Duke name has not been sufficient for me to get a job.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:12 PM on April 8, 2010
And as someone about to defend my dissertation I can testify that the Duke name has not been sufficient for me to get a job.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:12 PM on April 8, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by moiraine at 6:23 AM on April 8, 2010