Did I short myself 20% at the first interview!?
February 26, 2010 9:38 AM Subscribe
In my first interview, when asked about salary, I was the first to state a number. Am I screwed?
I just had my first interview with the operations division of a large investment bank in a city in Asia. Everything went fine, up until I was asked by the HR representative about my salary requirements. Instead of avoiding being first to state a number by saying something like, "I am looking for a fair and competitive offer," I messed up and gave an amount that was about 20% lower than the lower end for this position at my particular level (analyst). I even went as far as saying that this would include any bonus as well.
In lieu of having any other offers with which I can use to counter, and due to the still-weak economy, am I out of luck if the lowball figure I gave is the one that I receive? It would still be a substantial increase from my current salary, but given the requirements of the position and the industry/company standards for analyst-level compensation, would I be out of line to push for more? What are my chances of success?
I am obviously aware that this could result in a withdrawn offer at worst, so if anyone has any strategies (particularly ones applicable for investment banking) or personal anecdotes it would be of great help.
I just had my first interview with the operations division of a large investment bank in a city in Asia. Everything went fine, up until I was asked by the HR representative about my salary requirements. Instead of avoiding being first to state a number by saying something like, "I am looking for a fair and competitive offer," I messed up and gave an amount that was about 20% lower than the lower end for this position at my particular level (analyst). I even went as far as saying that this would include any bonus as well.
In lieu of having any other offers with which I can use to counter, and due to the still-weak economy, am I out of luck if the lowball figure I gave is the one that I receive? It would still be a substantial increase from my current salary, but given the requirements of the position and the industry/company standards for analyst-level compensation, would I be out of line to push for more? What are my chances of success?
I am obviously aware that this could result in a withdrawn offer at worst, so if anyone has any strategies (particularly ones applicable for investment banking) or personal anecdotes it would be of great help.
Yes, you are out of luck. And never say "I am looking for a fair and competitive offer" -- that's BS, and it offends your interviewer. You should go into every interview with a firm number of what your salary requirement is, including the cost of health care and bonuses.
That said, positions are generally slotted in bands, and 20% below means you'll probably be brought in at the lowest end of the pay grade, not the number you stated. This can be good, though -- if you do well, there's a lot more room for increases prior to moving up a pay grade.
The only option you have is to secure another offer before this company extends you one (if they do -- honestly, severely undervaluing yourself can be an indication that you aren't ready for the role and don't understand what it entails), explain what you have in hand, and ask if they plan on making a decision within the next day or two.
posted by bfranklin at 9:56 AM on February 26, 2010
That said, positions are generally slotted in bands, and 20% below means you'll probably be brought in at the lowest end of the pay grade, not the number you stated. This can be good, though -- if you do well, there's a lot more room for increases prior to moving up a pay grade.
The only option you have is to secure another offer before this company extends you one (if they do -- honestly, severely undervaluing yourself can be an indication that you aren't ready for the role and don't understand what it entails), explain what you have in hand, and ask if they plan on making a decision within the next day or two.
posted by bfranklin at 9:56 AM on February 26, 2010
There's nothing wrong with saying "I'm looking for a fair and competitive offer", that's a pretty basic negotiation tactic and basically puts the ball back into the interviewer's court. Ideally you should always do this, even in the face of pressure from your HR interview. But don't worry about it too much; you are always under a certain amount of stress during an interview.
When the corporation gets back to you and makes you an offer, then what you _could_ do:
- Go back say that based on your research in the job market, payscale.com etc -- you were mistaken with your first number and provide them your revised number. This is assuming that they even remembered and made a note of your first number.
- Keep interviewing and use other offers as leverage. Even if you don't have an offer but just a few interviews scheduled, let them know you are currently interviewing with XYZ and would like to get back to them after XYZ makes an offer (provide a hard deadline).
There's nothing wrong with asking and pushing harder during the final negotiations. This is all very normal, HR and managers are used to this. Just be consistent and clear with what you want, and provide solid evidence (experience, payscale data in your region) that you deserve what you're asking for. Offers tend to be withdrawn only if negotiations break down completely and neither party is willing to back down, so go for it.
posted by the_ancient_mariner at 10:15 AM on February 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
When the corporation gets back to you and makes you an offer, then what you _could_ do:
- Go back say that based on your research in the job market, payscale.com etc -- you were mistaken with your first number and provide them your revised number. This is assuming that they even remembered and made a note of your first number.
- Keep interviewing and use other offers as leverage. Even if you don't have an offer but just a few interviews scheduled, let them know you are currently interviewing with XYZ and would like to get back to them after XYZ makes an offer (provide a hard deadline).
There's nothing wrong with asking and pushing harder during the final negotiations. This is all very normal, HR and managers are used to this. Just be consistent and clear with what you want, and provide solid evidence (experience, payscale data in your region) that you deserve what you're asking for. Offers tend to be withdrawn only if negotiations break down completely and neither party is willing to back down, so go for it.
posted by the_ancient_mariner at 10:15 AM on February 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have done this before, and they extended an offer much higher than what I asked for, the average for the position. Why did they do that? Imagine if your new boss goes to his or her boss and says "We just hired Anonymous for 20% less!" No high-fives will be forthcoming, just the opposite. The boss will be mad, and ask why they hired a below-average talent for a below-market salary.
On top of that, if they did hire you at that salary, you'd probably wise up in 6 months, and jump ship to a competitor, and the time and money they spent recruiting you and paying your salary and benefits for 3 unproductive months goes down the drain.
This obviously depends on the industry and the position, which I have no idea about.
posted by AlsoMike at 10:52 AM on February 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
On top of that, if they did hire you at that salary, you'd probably wise up in 6 months, and jump ship to a competitor, and the time and money they spent recruiting you and paying your salary and benefits for 3 unproductive months goes down the drain.
This obviously depends on the industry and the position, which I have no idea about.
posted by AlsoMike at 10:52 AM on February 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
This is easy. When the offer comes back and is too low, say no and explain that the level of compensation is not sufficient. As a rule, ALWAYS turn down the first offer and negotiate for more.
You're in ops, so it may not apply, but in my experience geeks are the fricking worst when it comes to negotiating -- including myself until a few years ago. They mistakenly believe that if they negotiate they will establish themselves in the eyes of their future manager as greedy or a troublemaker (and possibly co-workers in the paranoid "word gets around" sense). That's complete bunk.
You have to be willing to walk. If you can find one job, you can find another and not make the same mistake, worst case. Remember that the person who cares less in a relationship is the one who controls it.
posted by rr at 11:00 AM on February 26, 2010
You're in ops, so it may not apply, but in my experience geeks are the fricking worst when it comes to negotiating -- including myself until a few years ago. They mistakenly believe that if they negotiate they will establish themselves in the eyes of their future manager as greedy or a troublemaker (and possibly co-workers in the paranoid "word gets around" sense). That's complete bunk.
You have to be willing to walk. If you can find one job, you can find another and not make the same mistake, worst case. Remember that the person who cares less in a relationship is the one who controls it.
posted by rr at 11:00 AM on February 26, 2010
rr's suggestion of always rejecting the first offer is not sound, and I would not do this unless the offer was actually low (when considering non-cash compensation) and I had a concrete, acceptable offer from another shop in the wings. If they're not really invested in you qua you, being blunt just makes them punt.
Use your judgement, though -- if it seems like a freewheeling kind of shop where they do want you to play games with the offer, say something like, "is this the best deal available? I'm very tempted, but it seems like there may be some headroom we could move into to seal the deal." And if they say no, then don't be a dick about it, but make the point that if everyone is happy after x months that a bump should be on the table.
To your original question, just wait for the offer to come in before you panic, and if it's actually low then mention that you've done some competitive research and feel that the job is worth more. Since it's a big corp, I doubt they'll lowball you -- they have pay grades everyone slots into and outliers make HR very upset.
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:35 AM on February 26, 2010
Use your judgement, though -- if it seems like a freewheeling kind of shop where they do want you to play games with the offer, say something like, "is this the best deal available? I'm very tempted, but it seems like there may be some headroom we could move into to seal the deal." And if they say no, then don't be a dick about it, but make the point that if everyone is happy after x months that a bump should be on the table.
To your original question, just wait for the offer to come in before you panic, and if it's actually low then mention that you've done some competitive research and feel that the job is worth more. Since it's a big corp, I doubt they'll lowball you -- they have pay grades everyone slots into and outliers make HR very upset.
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:35 AM on February 26, 2010
Having already made the mistake so early (presumably before getting significant information about the job), I suppose you could wait for the offer, than state that given the circumstances of the job (including hours, promotion opportunities, the nature of the work, benefits, etc.) as they have been explained by the company since your first interview, you feel that a salary of x would be more appropriate, and that at x you'll take the position. Just be prepared to walk if x isn't doable, or they can't come close enough to x to make you happy.
posted by davejay at 1:28 PM on February 26, 2010
posted by davejay at 1:28 PM on February 26, 2010
You're not out of luck. When you get the offer is the time to re-negotiate. Just say "I've been thinking about it, and need more money for x,y,z reasons".
posted by xammerboy at 1:45 PM on February 26, 2010
posted by xammerboy at 1:45 PM on February 26, 2010
If you do get a low ball offer after several more interviews, you can say, "Well, yes, I did state that as my minimum requirement, but after learning more about the position in the interview process, I feel that a more fair compensation is $X." And remind them what you bring to the table. You're not totally out of luck, but you did create a ceiling for yourself.
posted by delladlux at 2:36 PM on February 26, 2010
posted by delladlux at 2:36 PM on February 26, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Do you know a "source" within the company who could tell you what their salary is? This could be used for leverage too, I would think.
posted by yoyoceramic at 9:43 AM on February 26, 2010