Fix the car or sign it's death certificate?
February 2, 2010 12:04 PM Subscribe
'97 Chrysler Concord with a front main seal leak and an engine knock: Fix it or replace it?
Three years ago, my grandmother gave me her '97 Chrysler Concord with 94,000 miles on it. It's now at just over 150,000. For it's first ten years, it was driven by a little old lady like a little old lady would drive it. This is my first car, and admittedly, has been driven like a first car for the last three years.
- Alternator, serpentine belt and battery are 2 months from being a year old
- Rack & Pinion are about a year old
- Power steering arm is maybe a year and a half old
- Struts and CV Joints are just over a year old
- All 5 tires (includes spare) are only 6 months old and have lifetime warranty
- 2 week-old brake pads
I've kept up with all regular maintenance, oil changes every 3k miles, all fuel-injector, radiator services, etc on time.
It now has a front main seal leak and leaving puddles of oil anywhere I park. The estimates I've gotten are between $400 & $800. There's also a *thunking* sound, which, my more mechanically inclined friends refer to as a "knock"; so far, undiagnosed.
Is it worth fixing one (or both) of these two issues or is it time to suck it up and replace the car? If it's time for replacement, what's my best route for getting rid of this one? I have absolutely *no* money to buy another car, so I'd like to get as much as I can for this one, especially with all the new parts I've put in it. Scrap yard? Craigslist? Used car lot?
I'm in Austin, Texas if that makes much difference.
Three years ago, my grandmother gave me her '97 Chrysler Concord with 94,000 miles on it. It's now at just over 150,000. For it's first ten years, it was driven by a little old lady like a little old lady would drive it. This is my first car, and admittedly, has been driven like a first car for the last three years.
- Alternator, serpentine belt and battery are 2 months from being a year old
- Rack & Pinion are about a year old
- Power steering arm is maybe a year and a half old
- Struts and CV Joints are just over a year old
- All 5 tires (includes spare) are only 6 months old and have lifetime warranty
- 2 week-old brake pads
I've kept up with all regular maintenance, oil changes every 3k miles, all fuel-injector, radiator services, etc on time.
It now has a front main seal leak and leaving puddles of oil anywhere I park. The estimates I've gotten are between $400 & $800. There's also a *thunking* sound, which, my more mechanically inclined friends refer to as a "knock"; so far, undiagnosed.
Is it worth fixing one (or both) of these two issues or is it time to suck it up and replace the car? If it's time for replacement, what's my best route for getting rid of this one? I have absolutely *no* money to buy another car, so I'd like to get as much as I can for this one, especially with all the new parts I've put in it. Scrap yard? Craigslist? Used car lot?
I'm in Austin, Texas if that makes much difference.
The knocking sound could be the valves, although you seem to have been changing the oil frequently.
Having owned a Chrysler myself (a 1996) I would be tempted to advise you to avoid throwing any more money at it. Something else is bound to happen (leaky transmission?), so that money would be better spent on a new car.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:34 PM on February 2, 2010
Having owned a Chrysler myself (a 1996) I would be tempted to advise you to avoid throwing any more money at it. Something else is bound to happen (leaky transmission?), so that money would be better spent on a new car.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:34 PM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: At 150,000 miles, this car has reached the end of its intended service life -- any further mileage you get out of it will be on borrowed time. Which is to say that once you replace the front main seal, something else will soon require repair.
Furthermore, an engine knock could be anything, but could very likely indicate the presence of a major internal problem that would certainly not be worth fixing.
If it were my car, I'd replace the oil with one of those products made for high-mileage engines, and swap out one of those quarts with an engine seal conditioner, which may slow your leak. I've had pretty good luck squeezing a few more miles out of a tired engine with products like this.
But ultimately, your car has a foot in the boneyard. It will be easier to sell while it's still running -- once that engine knock metastasizes into a spun crankshaft bearing or a broken valve, this car won't be worth much more than the $75 scrap value at the local junkyard.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 1:15 PM on February 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
Furthermore, an engine knock could be anything, but could very likely indicate the presence of a major internal problem that would certainly not be worth fixing.
If it were my car, I'd replace the oil with one of those products made for high-mileage engines, and swap out one of those quarts with an engine seal conditioner, which may slow your leak. I've had pretty good luck squeezing a few more miles out of a tired engine with products like this.
But ultimately, your car has a foot in the boneyard. It will be easier to sell while it's still running -- once that engine knock metastasizes into a spun crankshaft bearing or a broken valve, this car won't be worth much more than the $75 scrap value at the local junkyard.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 1:15 PM on February 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I would say it is time to ditch it. 150000 is actually pretty good to get out of this engine/transmission. The repairs you have already paid for are just sunk costs and just cut your losses and walk away.
BTW replacing the front main seal is a big job-you most likely will need to pull the engine or the radiator/condensor to get to the pulley on the front of the crankshaft, then get the pulley off, which is pressed on the shaft and has been for 150000 miles. It won't want to come off. 400 is actually not bad for this kind of job. BTW this job is usually done at the sime time the serpentine belt is replaced and the timing chain/belt(depends on the engine). The knock is probably a connecting rod going/gone. This requires a complete engine rebuild to fix. This car isn't worth it. Get what you can and use the money that the repairs would have cost to get either a new(er) beater to drive for a couple of years (this is actually cost effective if you are skilled at picking out a good used car from a basket case) and repeat or a down payment on a new (or mildly used) car.
posted by bartonlong at 2:11 PM on February 2, 2010
BTW replacing the front main seal is a big job-you most likely will need to pull the engine or the radiator/condensor to get to the pulley on the front of the crankshaft, then get the pulley off, which is pressed on the shaft and has been for 150000 miles. It won't want to come off. 400 is actually not bad for this kind of job. BTW this job is usually done at the sime time the serpentine belt is replaced and the timing chain/belt(depends on the engine). The knock is probably a connecting rod going/gone. This requires a complete engine rebuild to fix. This car isn't worth it. Get what you can and use the money that the repairs would have cost to get either a new(er) beater to drive for a couple of years (this is actually cost effective if you are skilled at picking out a good used car from a basket case) and repeat or a down payment on a new (or mildly used) car.
posted by bartonlong at 2:11 PM on February 2, 2010
My parents had a Concorde that started to worry me after about 90K. At 150K I suspect yours is on the edge of falling apart and I wouldn't put any significant money into it.
posted by dhartung at 2:33 PM on February 2, 2010
posted by dhartung at 2:33 PM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: Those Chryslers have a crankshaft problem. With the car running, get a flashlight and take a look at the crank pulley. It's the big pulley at the bottom that the accessory belts ride on. If it's wobbling all over the place, that's a good indicator that this motor has fallen victim to this specific failure. That is, the crankshaft develops some excessive endplay (lateral movement) on some of these Chrysler engines and makes a bad knocking noise as it slaps against the front and rear of the engine.
But, you can try adding a Lucas Engine Oil Stabilizer and seeing if you can quiet it down and seal it up a bit, although my best guess is that your front and rear main seals are blown out from a potentially bad crankshaft and nothing's going to fix it in any long-term way.
I've seen a couple of these cars fall meet this nasty demise. I'm sorry it's happening to you. The knocking and the front main seal leak are the dead give-a-way for this condition. This is extremely abnormal engine wear and if you had any other vehicle, I'd never suggest or theorize that it might have excessive crankshaft endplay given your description. However, it's surprisingly common on Chryslers of that vintage and I've run across it a few times.
To confirm this, you can jack the car up, set it on jackstands, get under it with a big pry bar and put it behind the big crank pulley. If it's really far gone, you can actually move the crankshaft back and forth and hear it clunk.
So, don't spend the money just to fix the seal. If you're going to keep this car, plan on putting a healthier engine in it, be it a used or rebuilt one.
Here ends the "Good Advice" portion of my response. What follows is the "Morally Questionable" portion. Please understand that any damage to your Karma or conscience is your responsibility.
The best option is to drain all of the oil, fill it exclusively with Lucas Engine Oil Stabilizer, drive it directly to a Honda dealer and trade this Chrysler in for a used Civic while the car is still quiet and not leaking profusely. Tell them all about the new parts on the car and make absolutely ZERO mention of this engine malady.
posted by Jon-o at 3:16 PM on February 2, 2010
But, you can try adding a Lucas Engine Oil Stabilizer and seeing if you can quiet it down and seal it up a bit, although my best guess is that your front and rear main seals are blown out from a potentially bad crankshaft and nothing's going to fix it in any long-term way.
I've seen a couple of these cars fall meet this nasty demise. I'm sorry it's happening to you. The knocking and the front main seal leak are the dead give-a-way for this condition. This is extremely abnormal engine wear and if you had any other vehicle, I'd never suggest or theorize that it might have excessive crankshaft endplay given your description. However, it's surprisingly common on Chryslers of that vintage and I've run across it a few times.
To confirm this, you can jack the car up, set it on jackstands, get under it with a big pry bar and put it behind the big crank pulley. If it's really far gone, you can actually move the crankshaft back and forth and hear it clunk.
So, don't spend the money just to fix the seal. If you're going to keep this car, plan on putting a healthier engine in it, be it a used or rebuilt one.
Here ends the "Good Advice" portion of my response. What follows is the "Morally Questionable" portion. Please understand that any damage to your Karma or conscience is your responsibility.
The best option is to drain all of the oil, fill it exclusively with Lucas Engine Oil Stabilizer, drive it directly to a Honda dealer and trade this Chrysler in for a used Civic while the car is still quiet and not leaking profusely. Tell them all about the new parts on the car and make absolutely ZERO mention of this engine malady.
posted by Jon-o at 3:16 PM on February 2, 2010
Best answer: A new car of that class is going to cost you easy $400 a month in payments and insurance. Me I'd get the seal changed, drop everything but liability insurance and run it till it explodes. If it makes it more than a month you're laughing.
posted by Mitheral at 8:28 PM on February 2, 2010
posted by Mitheral at 8:28 PM on February 2, 2010
you can buy a lot of cheap oil for $400 like about 40 Gallons.
posted by Paleoindian at 11:01 PM on February 2, 2010
posted by Paleoindian at 11:01 PM on February 2, 2010
Response by poster: I have a friend who will be helping me replace the seal (the parts are only about $50) later this week when it's not raining and I have a day off from work. We will then be looking into replacing the car.
I doubt it will get me much, if anything, as a trade-in. This is my first car, so I've never done this before. What's my best bet? Sell it privately to some poor schmuck who just needs to get around town for a while?
Thanks, everyone, for such detailed responses. I admit an unhealthy sentimental attachment to this car. Thank you all for helping me come to terms with it's death.
posted by MuChao at 8:50 AM on February 3, 2010
I doubt it will get me much, if anything, as a trade-in. This is my first car, so I've never done this before. What's my best bet? Sell it privately to some poor schmuck who just needs to get around town for a while?
Thanks, everyone, for such detailed responses. I admit an unhealthy sentimental attachment to this car. Thank you all for helping me come to terms with it's death.
posted by MuChao at 8:50 AM on February 3, 2010
« Older We want to be duped, in a good way. | Rebuilding university programs after disasters Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by torquemaniac at 12:21 PM on February 2, 2010