Is there a tag for "awkwardness"?

January 11, 2010 9:53 AM

DatingFilter: Is he playing it safe or just oblivious?

Me: Heterosexual 20-something female. Has some (but not a lot) of dating experience.

So there's this guy. We hit it off when we first met about 2 months ago, but he disappeared into his work, and after texting each other for a few weeks, we stopped talking. Lately, he's reappeared, and we've spent every day either hanging out, texting, or Facebooking. But the actual hanging out hasn't been the two of us alone; it's been in small groups. That said, I thought that even though I suck at flirting, I was making it fairly clear I was interested, and I thought he was responding positively; I've had several mutual friends comment on his interest in me.

And now the problem: He's recently gone from being vegan to being frutarian (yeah, I don't know), so tonight, when I knew he'd be gone, I stopped by his place and left him a present of fresh fruit and nuts, along with what I thought was a cute little note. A few hours later, he FBed me saying we should get together this week and watch a movie at his place, adding, "I think [Mutual Guy Friend] would come too." But I don't want Mutual Guy Friend to come, I want it to be just the two of us.

I can't figure out if he wants Mutual Guy Friend to join us because he hasn't figured out I'm into him or because he's trying to play it cool. (Or the worse case scenario: he does know I'm into him and he's trying to let me down gently.) I have no idea how to make it clear that I want to hang out with him alone in a way that doesn't come off as weird or desperate.

I know everyone's going to comment with "tell him you're into him" (which is also what all my girl friends have been suggesting to me), but the thought seriously terrifies me, and I don't think I can do it without it being awkward awkward awkward. It's honestly giving me an anxiety attack to even think about it.

posted by canadia to Human Relations (36 answers total)

It's terrifying.

It will definitely be awkward. So what? Sometimes human interaction is awkward.

It's the only way to go.
posted by Tomorrowful at 9:54 AM on January 11, 2010 [4 favorites]

There are traits you look for in a man: intelligence, sense of humor, tough, etc. Consider "he desires you and makes the move" to be one of those traits.

Who cares why this guy isn't obviously pursuing you. The fact that he isn't should be enough reason to disqualify him. There are men out there who will want you and let you know in glorious directness.
posted by dualityofmind at 9:59 AM on January 11, 2010 [7 favorites]

At some point the anxiety of not knowing will trump the anxiety of telling him.
posted by desjardins at 9:59 AM on January 11, 2010 [7 favorites]

Rip the Band-Aid (TM) off: "Well, um...I kind of thought we could be alone. Like a date." Even if you don't get the response you want, at least you'll know.

Not all men are pursuers. I practically had to club Mr. Arkham over the head to get him to realize I liked him, liked him.
posted by JoanArkham at 10:05 AM on January 11, 2010 [3 favorites]

I know everyone's going to comment with "tell him you're into him" (which is also what all my girl friends have been suggesting to me), but the thought seriously terrifies me, and I don't think I can do it without it being awkward awkward awkward. It's honestly giving me an anxiety attack to even think about it.

Welcome to the world of the heterosexual male in America. The good part is this--if us cavemen could do it, you genius beautiful women can do it too.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:05 AM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

Maybe Mutual Guy Friend is his boyfriend, or friend with benefits, or he wants him to be. Maybe he's trying to tell you something too, but doesn't know how without it being awkward.

At some point you'll figure out how to inject some humor and enjoy getting to know someone like this. But right now you might try asking him - 'hey, are you seeing anyone? what would you think about watching the movie on our own?'
posted by barnone at 10:06 AM on January 11, 2010 [5 favorites]

A few hours later, he FBed me saying we should get together this week and watch a movie at his place, adding, "I think [Mutual Guy Friend] would come too."

I wouldn't do this unless I was not interested.
posted by bingo at 10:09 AM on January 11, 2010 [3 favorites]

I know it's scary, but in this case, you could easily state that you were hoping the two of you could hang out alone on facebook, which gives you time to formulate wording and a bit of a buffer if you're . . . rebuffed. Go for it. Life's too short to sit around waiting for a guy to chase you down.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:09 AM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

Ugh. I've been in this situation and it turned out that the two guys were secretly dating and I was the third wheel. The guy didn't even consider the fact that he was (sort of) leading me on.

I don't tell you this story to make you think that your crush is gay, but to illuminate the fact that there are dozens and hundreds of reasons why this guy may be "missing the point". If you wait for someone to read your mind and magically divine your intentions, you'll be waiting a long time.
posted by muddgirl at 10:12 AM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]

Maybe Mutual Guy Friend would be a good go-between who could give you a reading on the guy you're interested in? Or if not, I don't think it would be too awkward to say something like "I was thinking maybe it could just be the two of us." If I was interested in a girl and she said that to me, I would think "HOT DAMN I don't have tread so carefully anymore! If I wasn't interested, well, I wouldn't be creeped out. Not unless you said it in a creepy way.

There are lots of reasons he could be inviting the other guy over, and it sounds like it's definitely worth it to you to find out why.

I don't think, as dualityofmind seems to suggest, that you should write off shy guys by principle.
posted by ropeladder at 10:15 AM on January 11, 2010

Best answer: One way I just thought of to try and drop a hint without....sounding like you're dropping a hint might be to respond to any "and so-and-so is gonna come too" with a flirty little, "you know, I'm starting to wonder if you're afraid to be left alone with me." He may indeed be oblivious or scattered enough to the point that he simply hasn't NOTICED that this is what he's been doing.

How he responds to that will be telling, though -- if he just laughs it off, or gets all flustered and making-excuses, then that's a good indicator that he wasn't intending anything (and since you were being flirty, you can make a graceful exit). But if he honestly didn't realize he's been doing this, he may think to himself, "Huh? Oh. ....Oh." and start flirting back accordingly, in which case yay.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:15 AM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

barnone: you might try asking him: "'hey, are you seeing anyone? what would you think about watching the movie on our own?"


I like that approach.. although I might dress it up a little differently, perhaps something like: "Well, if your not currently involved with anyone, I'd prefer (or "be more interested in") watching the movie just with you. ;)"
posted by jmnugent at 10:18 AM on January 11, 2010

From your profile: are you a Western woman in Korea? Is this guy Korean? If so there could be some cultural customs issues going on.
posted by barnone at 10:19 AM on January 11, 2010

As far as obvious hints go, leaving a gift basket counts, and so does suggesting to meet up with a third party.

Take his extremely obvious hint.
posted by shownomercy at 10:19 AM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Barnone: No, we're both Westerners.
posted by canadia at 10:21 AM on January 11, 2010

I know everyone's going to comment with "tell him you're into him"

That's because you really should. Some people are just clueless about flirting, or they're too worried about awkward situations to make a move.

Why not just suggest a date yourself?

Best-case scenario: this guy responds positively, you get a real date with him.

Worst-case scenario: you're rejected, and even though you're hurting you realize that this is SO MUCH BETTER than agonizing for weeks over whether he likes you.
posted by ripley_ at 10:24 AM on January 11, 2010

Best answer: He's an overly-polite guy who's trying really hard to make sure you don't feel pressure to hang with him (like a date), and he's shooting himself in the foot in the process. You have a choice: simply respond with "it might be more fun if [mutual guy friend] isn't there :P" and then he'll know you're into him and it's full speed ahead...or you can give up because you want the kind of guy who isn't overly-polite like this.

So ask yourself: do you want a guy who takes risks, or a guy who never pressures you to do things you don't want to do? Either can be a good or bad thing depending on who you are and what your preferences are, so make up your mind then proceed accordingly.
posted by davejay at 10:26 AM on January 11, 2010 [3 favorites]

Yes, you're just asking everyone to tell you to tell him you're into him. So tell him!

Either he's oblivious, or you're not sending clear signals, or both. But either way, it doesn't matter whose fault it is; there's only one way he's going to find the information that you want him to know.

Here's an idea: if he's interested, and he doesn't know if you are, he might be thinking to himself: I don't think I can do it without it being awkward awkward awkward (or worse). Since he's male, the consequences for him getting it wrong may be greater than they are for you.
posted by k. at 10:28 AM on January 11, 2010

I would not tell him you are into him, yet. I would tell him you want to hang at his apartment just the two of you. See what he says. Or invite him to your place alone.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:30 AM on January 11, 2010

Best answer: I'll say it. He's weird.

Most guys having a girl wanting to come over to their place would be washing the sheets in preparation.

80% doesn't want to date you but is embarrassed to tell you.
0% he's playing hard to get.
20% it's even freakier than any of us can imagine.

Go over with a plan. You'll know in the first 5 minutes if he's into you or not. Men are generally unable to play hard to get. If the place isn't nice and you can see he prepared special for you to come over, you are in the 'not-girlfriend' column.

Have a friend make a pre-arranged call 20 minutes in. If you need an excuse to bail from Land of Awkward Threesome, you got it.

Good luck, but my guess is 'the fruitarian' will be an amusing anecdote for you to laugh about with friends in the future.
posted by Argyle at 10:32 AM on January 11, 2010 [4 favorites]

I've more or less said this in a similar past thread, but I hope it helps you here...

Decide to embrace awkwardness. Sure, it's downright painful in the moment, but later, it's the awkward that makes your best and worst-turned-laughable exchanges as memorable (and sometimes romantic) and wonderfully unscripted as they are.

Also, I've found that just knowing this can make the awkward moments a bit less painful. Sometimes, when I'm engaging in something spectacularly cringe-inducing, a the little voice pops in my head and says, "Just ride it out; one day this particular moment will be *awesome* to recall." Especially if the results of the exchange go in your favor. If not, the enjoyment of having experienced that weird hell may come a bit later, and hopefully will be tinged with more funny than regret. But still awesome nonetheless. Being forward (or short of that, blunt and awkward) can be empowering. If things go your way, it's always nice to have that little fumbling awkward moment that you shared with somebody, that you both look back on as something human and tender. Really, that's the good stuff. Not the rehearsed or scripted, pragmatically perfect hollywood movie version of what you should say if you were the slickest heroine that ever lived.

Besides, a lot of things really come down to timing. Maybe you say perfect thing X, but dude really is in the space where he needs to hear perfect thing Y. How would you know? How is that in any way a reflection of the delivery of idea X? Most times the success of that thing will be largely determined by something else, out of your immediate control. And it sounds like dude will take forever in letting you know what's up. Just ask, so you two can stop living out the longest and most painful RomCom ever.

LIFE IS TOO SHORT.
posted by iamkimiam at 10:40 AM on January 11, 2010 [4 favorites]

What ripley_ said.

Yeah. There's all kinds of reasons why a guy might not do x, y, z. And typical and non-typical guy (or woman) behaviors, or cultural reasons.

But the best advice my mom gave me so far, which applies to pretty much everything: You never know until you ask.
posted by bitterkitten at 10:44 AM on January 11, 2010

If you want to go on a date with him, why not tell him? Say this: "Actually, I was thinking we should hang out, just the two of us. Y'know... A date."

If he's interested, you'll know immediately. If he's not, it's his loss, and poof! You're no longer wasting time on someone who isn't interested.

"and after texting each other for a few weeks"

Please, for the love of god or whatever deity you may or may not believe in, please... anybody who is reading this, please! Stop with the texting while dating. In a relationship, it's fine because you know each other. But when you're just dating (or worse! When you're trying to start dating!) texting is poison. There is so little actual communication in texting. It's just a few words, (sometimes not even real words, mixed with horrible grammar) that could probably be interpreted in a trillion different ways, but only you know the context (not to mention the words never said).
posted by 2oh1 at 10:44 AM on January 11, 2010 [7 favorites]

Best answer: ...we should get together this week and watch a movie at his place, adding, "I think [Mutual Guy Friend] would come too."

It sounds possible to me that he was trying to give you an out (as in, "I don't want you to think this is a date unless you want it to be a date too"), and that there's an implicit "...if you want" attached to "I think MGF would come too." You could try saying "nah, I'm cool with it just being us." or "Oh, if you want."

How will the arranging of the get-together work? He didn't ask you if you wanted MGF to come; he just pointed out that MGF would. Do you need to address it at all? He might have put it out there with the expectation that you'd take the initiative and tell MGF to show up, or say "yeah, cool, lets get MGF in on this movie" if you wanted MGF there. So your doing/saying nothing MGF-wise might accomplish your goal.

fwiw, being all up front and "I like like you" is good and assertive and healthy and productive and all, but there's something to be said for the excitement of a thing that develops without that explicit verbal admission. (As long as you give other signs that you're interested like flirting and frutarian gift baskets and not trying to get MGF to show up too.)
posted by sentient at 10:51 AM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]

Sounds like he's offering to invite mutual guy friend (aka wing man) so that you might feel more comfortable coming to a new guy's house for the first time. Y'all started with small groups, now he's got it down to three -- I see a progression here.

Just go and enjoy his company. Give your favorable cues. Look fabulous. Wouldn't be surprised if wing man "suddenly has to leave early" sometime in the evening.
posted by cross_impact at 10:57 AM on January 11, 2010

Seems to me like he knows you're into him and that, sorry!, he may not think of you in the same way but doesn't want to ruin the friendship. If he invited a third wheel to the movie get-together, then that's a bad sign (petty as it sounds). He may just like the attention you give him. I would see what happens when you let him be the man and make the moves -- initiating texts, calls, get-togethers, etc. Pull back and be aloof for a while.
posted by bunny hugger at 10:59 AM on January 11, 2010

Here's the thing; you're right, it's awkward. It's awkward because it is unknown. Above, you have many examples of good reasons why you should just get your thoughts out in the open.

But to address more of this idea of "awkwardness" that you are expressing concern about...

Consider the possibility that most of us will have many romantic relationships throughout our lives. Some of us get married, and for the most part, we feel like that will be our last relationship...ever. Sometimes that's the case. Sometimes (more often than not, actually) it isn't the last one. The point is, relationships are something we should reasonably see as something that probably takes practice. Despite best intentions, sometimes we get them wrong. Or the other person does, or whatever.

It's my opinion that it doesn't hurt to kinda go into it, at this stage, thinking "Hey, this may or may not work out. It probably isn't my last relationship ever, no matter how important it seems to be currently. I am going to take this opportunity to give it my best shot and consider it valuable practice for the future." Adopting this stand doesn't diminish the potential of the relationship, nor does it alleviate you from handling yourself in the way you feel represents you and your values best. It just acknowledges that your specific present actions are probably not critical to your future happiness. It takes a bit of the load off.

You will learn something. About yourself. And about the other person. You will even learn one more thing about this idea of how to get from "here" to "there." So don't sweat it. You still have plenty of games to go in the season. You are just warming up. And when you begin to reach the top of your game...No man is safe. You'll do fine. Good luck. With this guy and, quite possibly, the next one.
posted by nickjadlowe at 11:13 AM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]

There are traits you look for in a man: intelligence, sense of humor, tough, etc. Consider "he desires you and makes the move" to be one of those traits.

Only if that's a trait SHE looks for. It's not a trait universally desired by all women.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:30 AM on January 11, 2010

Stop with the texting while dating. In a relationship, it's fine because you know each other.

Quick reinforcement of this; I've been married over ten years, and we still can't text without confusing each other/worrying each other/pissing each other off for no reason. Might as well be communicating complex emotional issues via semaphore.
posted by davejay at 11:45 AM on January 11, 2010 [4 favorites]

Only if that's a trait SHE looks for. It's not a trait universally desired by all women.

Well, I think the "makes the move" trait may be debatable, but I'm pretty sure the "he desires you" one is pretty much universal. :P
posted by Allenthar at 11:55 AM on January 11, 2010

I had a situation like this about a year ago. I had recently met a guy through some mutual friends, and we were hitting it off pretty well, but we never got a chance to hang out alone and see where it would go. So I decided to invite him over to my house when my roommates were away. His response? "Sounds like fun! I'll bring some friends!"

I decided not to beat around the bush, and sent him a text message saying, "Bring your friends, but I thought it would be nice to hang out just the two of us sometime." His response: "Oh. OH."

We went on a date, didn't quite feel a spark, and are now good friends who give each other dating advice. Moral of the story - yes, some guys are that oblivious.
posted by shaun uh at 12:13 PM on January 11, 2010

20% it's even freakier than any of us can imagine.
...
Have a friend make a pre-arranged call 20 minutes in. If you need an excuse to bail from Land of Awkward Threesome, you got it.

At least I am not the only one wondering if the guy is planning a ménage à trois
posted by I am the Walrus at 12:50 PM on January 11, 2010

I am this oblivious... but it's not just that simple. My awkwardness in regards to interacting with a woman that I am interested in, which is something that happens... very rarely, is coupled with fear.

It wasn't until I was nineteen that I started to even capture the interest of women, romantically speaking. Up until then my interactions were mainly limited to instances where my height provided my with the opportunity to extract items from high places, or the ability to fix something computery.

The last great gap in romantic relations before I met the woman that I would come to marry was four and a half years. Hell, she had to ask me out because the fear of her rejecting my feelings would make my heart race and my mind lock. When she did ask me, I took her in my arms... I forget how long I held her, kissing her deeply.

Eight years later, she left me for another man. It was due to a culmination of many things... many of which had been interlaced with fear. Fear of losing the job as the primary wage earner, fear of trying and losing another child, fear of telling my mother again, fear of losing everything...

Which happened anyway. At least to me.

She's happier now than she ever was with me. She told me that last time I spoke with her, trying to let her know how I feel, how I felt about it all. How much I love her still.

So it's all just so much fading memories.

Anyway...

The point is, some of us have been hammered. Some of us didn't even really make it out of the gate.

Maybe he's been burned.

Give him a chance. It will be awkward. It could be the start of something wonderful.
posted by PROD_TPSL at 1:01 PM on January 11, 2010 [4 favorites]

Maybe he's playing on the other team, but he isn't "out" to his friends? Are you sure he's romantically interested in women?? (I'm spit balling - not predicting!)

Also, I can't nth dualityofmind enough!

PS. I know you think he's super cool, but some folks with those types of dietary interests are less into the health aspect and more into the weirdo-control-attention-aspect. So, if it doesn't work out for whatever reason, you could always comfort yourself with a hamburger, ahem, I mean the knowledge that you probably dodged a bullet and dating this guy probably would've felt stressful and uptight most of the time!)
posted by jbenben at 3:18 PM on January 11, 2010 [1 favorite]

I think some of these answerers are beanplating. Inferring that he's gay, or a freak, or would be a bad boyfriend, or is even just not interested in you, is filling in the gaps of information that we simply don't have yet. And I would say the people suggesting those things are jumping too far, too soon.

I was the awkward blundering guy once, trying to be "nice" and beat around the bush with girls I liked. I was terrified of scaring off my crushes so I'd tiptoe around invitations to stuff and always toss in the disclaimer that there would be others present at every event. Because I didn't want to be creepy. And to me, at the time, I thought anything one-on-one could be perceived as creepy. I know I was weird, and I have changed (and will be getting married soon as a result!) but at one point the guy you described in the OP could've been me. Minus the fruitarian part.

The only way out is to kill the wishy-washiness and be blunt. Put your cards on the table and find out where he stands. If he likes you, you can both finally get through this uncomfortable period and move on to fun stuff. If he doesn't, he can take the chance to reciprocate with bluntness and you can both proceed with your lives. You should make it perfectly clear to him, though, that you won't take "maybe" for an answer; he has to be equally blunt with you. I've spent many frustrating months in that awkward she-loves-me-she-loves-me-not phase and I'll tell you this: Life's too short to hang out there for any extended period of time.
posted by The Winsome Parker Lewis at 3:35 PM on January 11, 2010 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Update: I replied with the message EmpressCallipygos suggested... and an hour later, he asked if he can come over tonight. Message received! Thanks, everyone!
posted by canadia at 3:24 AM on January 12, 2010 [3 favorites]