What can my girlfriend do to increase her chances of a 6-month US B-1 Visa (tourist) approval?
January 5, 2010 12:05 PM Subscribe
My German girlfriend and I are early in our relationship and we'd like her to be able to stay more than the standard Visa Waiver program's 3 months so that we can really experience living together. She's filled out the application and has an appointment with the consulate tomorrow. What documentation and evidence do you recommend she present to the agent?
We've heard conflicting advice about how to describe her trip. She won't be touring the country and it seems odd to make up a 6-month itinerary just to justify the length of the stay. We've tried applying for volunteer positions that require a 6-month commitment but haven't heard back from them yet.
One immigration lawyer suggested not mentioning me at all. But I've read elsewhere that it's important to show she has friends in the U.S. who she'll be staying with. Will it hurt her chances to say she'll be living with her boyfriend?
I've read some Ask MeFi threads about Americans bringing their significant others to the US. Some great advice there, but our situation is not so far along. We're not prepared to go the fiance visa route.
We've heard conflicting advice about how to describe her trip. She won't be touring the country and it seems odd to make up a 6-month itinerary just to justify the length of the stay. We've tried applying for volunteer positions that require a 6-month commitment but haven't heard back from them yet.
One immigration lawyer suggested not mentioning me at all. But I've read elsewhere that it's important to show she has friends in the U.S. who she'll be staying with. Will it hurt her chances to say she'll be living with her boyfriend?
I've read some Ask MeFi threads about Americans bringing their significant others to the US. Some great advice there, but our situation is not so far along. We're not prepared to go the fiance visa route.
My only experience was with staying in the UK for longer than the typical tourist, and all they really cared about was how much money I had, did I have a return ticket (and can we see it, please?) and where I was staying for the duration. I imagine it would be very similar for the US.
posted by cooker girl at 12:12 PM on January 5, 2010
posted by cooker girl at 12:12 PM on January 5, 2010
Best answer: IANAIL, but I've had a fair amount of personal experience with US immigration, and I'm sorry to say that I would bet you a large amount of money that if she tells the consulate she has a boyfriend in the US she will be turned down. For a visa like that they are looking for a time-limited reason to be in the US, with compelling ties to make her return to Germany. This puts her in an awkward position, because they are likely to ask directly about who she knows and who she'll be staying with. Lying is a big deal, and consular officers are smart people (not the same time of person as your stereotypical USCIS officer) who often engage applicants in actual conversation (I say that to say that sticking to yes and no answers won't be a helpful strategy).
I really wish you had posted this earlier, because it's a complicated thing with lots of potential to go wrong. I also don't understand why you didn't get better, clearer advice from an immigration lawyer - I hate to be "that person", but you need it. That isn't really the right visa for what you're trying to do, and screwing it up could have big consequences for both of you in the future, especially if you do want to bring her to the US permanently. Is there any way you can talk tonight to the lawyer who gave you advice before, or to a different one?
posted by crabintheocean at 12:20 PM on January 5, 2010
I really wish you had posted this earlier, because it's a complicated thing with lots of potential to go wrong. I also don't understand why you didn't get better, clearer advice from an immigration lawyer - I hate to be "that person", but you need it. That isn't really the right visa for what you're trying to do, and screwing it up could have big consequences for both of you in the future, especially if you do want to bring her to the US permanently. Is there any way you can talk tonight to the lawyer who gave you advice before, or to a different one?
posted by crabintheocean at 12:20 PM on January 5, 2010
Response by poster: The lawyer was not hired, he is just the father of an acquaintance who briefly answered some questions over email. Perhaps we should reschedule the appointment so we can have a more formal discussion with a lawyer.
How much will photos of her family in Germany, employment in Germany, and a bank account in Germany do to prove she has ties to her home country and will return?
posted by Typographica at 12:33 PM on January 5, 2010
How much will photos of her family in Germany, employment in Germany, and a bank account in Germany do to prove she has ties to her home country and will return?
posted by Typographica at 12:33 PM on January 5, 2010
From the Department of State Website:
The presumption in the law is that every visitor visa applicant is an intending immigrant. Therefore, applicants for visitor visas must overcome this presumption by demonstrating that:
* The purpose of their trip is to enter the U.S. for business, pleasure, or medical treatment;
* That they plan to remain for a specific, limited period;
* Evidence of funds to cover expenses in the United States;
* Evidence of compelling social and economic ties abroad; and
* That they have a residence outside the U.S. as well as other binding ties that will insure their return abroad at the end of the visit.
---
You need to make sure you have solid answers to all these points.
I think the reason an itinerary is being suggested is that the consular offices will ask her why the three month visa waiver is not long enough for her plans. Why is she going through the fees and hassle when she's eligible for several months as a tourist anyway (the B-2 is usually used by people from non VW eligible countries)? Think about how you'll answer that - trying a live-in relationship won't cut it.
I really hope this all works out ok for you both.
posted by crabintheocean at 12:36 PM on January 5, 2010
The presumption in the law is that every visitor visa applicant is an intending immigrant. Therefore, applicants for visitor visas must overcome this presumption by demonstrating that:
* The purpose of their trip is to enter the U.S. for business, pleasure, or medical treatment;
* That they plan to remain for a specific, limited period;
* Evidence of funds to cover expenses in the United States;
* Evidence of compelling social and economic ties abroad; and
* That they have a residence outside the U.S. as well as other binding ties that will insure their return abroad at the end of the visit.
---
You need to make sure you have solid answers to all these points.
I think the reason an itinerary is being suggested is that the consular offices will ask her why the three month visa waiver is not long enough for her plans. Why is she going through the fees and hassle when she's eligible for several months as a tourist anyway (the B-2 is usually used by people from non VW eligible countries)? Think about how you'll answer that - trying a live-in relationship won't cut it.
I really hope this all works out ok for you both.
posted by crabintheocean at 12:36 PM on January 5, 2010
Sorry, you posted while I was writing. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but my feeling as a lay person who's done talked to USCIS interviewers, and been through some of this stuff myself, is that none of the things you list are that great for her. It's pretty normal for a young person to leave their family to emigrate, the kind of family that provide ties are a spouse and kids. And a bank account is easy to close or leave dormant, and you can quit a job - the US govt are thinking property, a business.
I hate to be that finger wagging person, but the US government doesn't care about your relationship, or generally even about what seems reasonable to you or I. If she messes this up she could end up banned from the US for many years. If you can reschedule I really think you should. Don't tell the consulate it's so you can talk to a lawyer, have her get food poisoning or something (but don't just no-show either)!
posted by crabintheocean at 12:46 PM on January 5, 2010
I hate to be that finger wagging person, but the US government doesn't care about your relationship, or generally even about what seems reasonable to you or I. If she messes this up she could end up banned from the US for many years. If you can reschedule I really think you should. Don't tell the consulate it's so you can talk to a lawyer, have her get food poisoning or something (but don't just no-show either)!
posted by crabintheocean at 12:46 PM on January 5, 2010
I didn't mean my typos to sound so folksy!
posted by crabintheocean at 12:50 PM on January 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by crabintheocean at 12:50 PM on January 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
I would second crabintheocean's comments.
Very bluntly stated: don't fuck around with US immigration laws. Engage with the laws as they are. Don't engage in sentimental or romantic notions about your relationship with this woman; it is correct that the consulate doesn't care.
Find a competent immigration attorney who can take you and your girlfriend through the process and advise you accordingly. Don't rely on an email conversation with the lawyer-friend of an acquaintance. Retain your own counsel. Expect to pay money for this advice.
Again: don't fuck around with this type of stuff and don't engage in sentiment.
posted by dfriedman at 12:52 PM on January 5, 2010
Very bluntly stated: don't fuck around with US immigration laws. Engage with the laws as they are. Don't engage in sentimental or romantic notions about your relationship with this woman; it is correct that the consulate doesn't care.
Find a competent immigration attorney who can take you and your girlfriend through the process and advise you accordingly. Don't rely on an email conversation with the lawyer-friend of an acquaintance. Retain your own counsel. Expect to pay money for this advice.
Again: don't fuck around with this type of stuff and don't engage in sentiment.
posted by dfriedman at 12:52 PM on January 5, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks friedman and crab (and I done love your folksy typos!). I had no idea that applying for this visa was so risky. We just thought we'd give it a go, and if we were denied she could still come on the VWP. But if it will put any future visits at risk than maybe she shouldn't apply at all and we should just enjoy what we can from the 3 months.
posted by Typographica at 1:18 PM on January 5, 2010
posted by Typographica at 1:18 PM on January 5, 2010
Best answer: If she is denied the visa it is very unlikely that she will be able to use the WVP again, especially if she's denied for lack of home country ties/ties to the US, and nothing changes about her situation. And unpleasantly, if the WVP isn't going to work out for her, she'll discover it at US immigration, at the end of a long flight, and probably after several hours of waiting and questioning. Not fun.
I think you still need to talk to a lawyer, because she has applied for the visa already. You need to figure out if she should back out of it, and if so how - it could cause problems if she just drops it, and she won't be able to use the WVP while she has an open visa application.
For now it looks like you should go to Germany to visit! Best of luck to you both and congrats on the relationship!
posted by crabintheocean at 1:27 PM on January 5, 2010
I think you still need to talk to a lawyer, because she has applied for the visa already. You need to figure out if she should back out of it, and if so how - it could cause problems if she just drops it, and she won't be able to use the WVP while she has an open visa application.
For now it looks like you should go to Germany to visit! Best of luck to you both and congrats on the relationship!
posted by crabintheocean at 1:27 PM on January 5, 2010
Response by poster: Some facts I should have related earlier:
posted by Typographica at 1:36 PM on January 5, 2010
- She has not yet submitted her application for a visa.
- She's already been here on a 3-week WVP visit in July.
- She already has a roundtrip ticket for three months in the US from Feb-Apr. If we decide not to apply for the B-2 then we'd love to use it.
posted by Typographica at 1:36 PM on January 5, 2010
The issue here isn't that applying for a visa is risky. It's that applying for a visa under false pretenses is risky because if your girlfriend gets caught she'll be imprisoned or deported or both and you may face legal repercussions as well.
Also note that what you may think is harmless information may not be construed as such by whoever interviews your girlfriend at the consulate.
This is why you really, really, really, really need to retain competent counsel for any and all visa issues that are non-standard.
posted by dfriedman at 1:44 PM on January 5, 2010
Also note that what you may think is harmless information may not be construed as such by whoever interviews your girlfriend at the consulate.
This is why you really, really, really, really need to retain competent counsel for any and all visa issues that are non-standard.
posted by dfriedman at 1:44 PM on January 5, 2010
Response by poster: dfriedman - Let's just stick with the plan that we'll be completely honest about her visit. It's still a risk to apply because if she's denied then she can't use the WVP. That's what I mean by risky.
posted by Typographica at 2:03 PM on January 5, 2010
posted by Typographica at 2:03 PM on January 5, 2010
Dfriedman, I actually with you generally, but I kind of disagree on this one. I think applying for a visa is risky, because having a denial on your record with USCIS will hurt your ability to travel easily in the future, even if you're not denied for lying or doing anything wrong.
I think it's also risky to volunteer information to any government agency (but especially USCIS) for which you aren't getting a benefit like a visa in return - i.e. don't tell your whole story when there's no realistic prospect of getting the visa anyway. What if the OP and his girl break up, she wants to take a US vacation in a couple of years, but USCIS won't believe she doesn't still have a boyfriend here?
OP - I can't withdraw the recommendation to talk to a lawyer, but if she really hasn't turned in any forms or made any applications yet, it sounds like you'd be fine to go with a WVP visit. Think carefully about what she'll tell the USCIS border office then.
posted by crabintheocean at 2:19 PM on January 5, 2010
I think it's also risky to volunteer information to any government agency (but especially USCIS) for which you aren't getting a benefit like a visa in return - i.e. don't tell your whole story when there's no realistic prospect of getting the visa anyway. What if the OP and his girl break up, she wants to take a US vacation in a couple of years, but USCIS won't believe she doesn't still have a boyfriend here?
OP - I can't withdraw the recommendation to talk to a lawyer, but if she really hasn't turned in any forms or made any applications yet, it sounds like you'd be fine to go with a WVP visit. Think carefully about what she'll tell the USCIS border office then.
posted by crabintheocean at 2:19 PM on January 5, 2010
Response by poster: Small correction: she paid in advance to secure the consulate appointment, but no paperwork has been submitted.
posted by Typographica at 3:36 PM on January 5, 2010
posted by Typographica at 3:36 PM on January 5, 2010
Not a lawyer, but people who are eligible for VWP are generally (though not always) turned down for B-2 unless there are very compelling reasons for a stay exceeding 3 months. Reasoning given here doesn't sound compelling to an officer.
Also remember that on the VWP that you need to spend as much time out of the US as you spend in, so if you start racking up 3 months stays, you'll get questions. What are your future plans?
Take a look at one of the many boards online dedicated to visa discussions, eg britishexpats.com. Many cautionary tales there. As crabintheocean said, you should have posted this earlier - this is very complex.
posted by wingless_angel at 3:49 PM on January 5, 2010
Also remember that on the VWP that you need to spend as much time out of the US as you spend in, so if you start racking up 3 months stays, you'll get questions. What are your future plans?
Take a look at one of the many boards online dedicated to visa discussions, eg britishexpats.com. Many cautionary tales there. As crabintheocean said, you should have posted this earlier - this is very complex.
posted by wingless_angel at 3:49 PM on January 5, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks. We're probably going to go with the VWP for now (Feb-Apr) and seek some counsel in the meantime. Fortunately, even after that visit, she'll have spent very little time in the US over the past year compared to Germany.
posted by Typographica at 3:56 PM on January 5, 2010
posted by Typographica at 3:56 PM on January 5, 2010
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posted by Typographica at 12:10 PM on January 5, 2010