Am I crazy or what?
December 13, 2009 6:44 PM Subscribe
Am I crazy or what?
Not long ago, I'd voluntarily checked myself into a mental hospital for severe depression caused by a bipolar disorder of some stripe. Over the course of five days, I was given a cocktail of antidepressants and monitored (asked dumb questions) each morning.
Not knowing the limits of confidentiality, I'd mentioned owning a firearm during an early evaluation. When I decided to voluntarily check out, one of the formalities that I couldn't avoid was signing my gun over to a friend for thirty days. I did this, and reclaimed it after a month, as was allowed per the explanation of my case manager.
I'm assuming that because my stay was voluntary, and the remission of the firearm temporary, that I am not considered to have been committed to a mental institution, or adjudicated as mentally ill.
One of my favorite hobbies is taking a big group of friends to the shooting range. That's why I bought a gun, and all my friends own them as well. I didn't buy it so I could snuff myself out or hurt anyone else. What I'm unsure of is whether it's legal for me to own this weapon, and whether I'm eligible to purchase another, or to apply for things like ATF pyrotechnic licenses.
If you wanna lecture me, go ahead. I appreciate the concern, but am not really interested in ditching one of my few joys.
Not long ago, I'd voluntarily checked myself into a mental hospital for severe depression caused by a bipolar disorder of some stripe. Over the course of five days, I was given a cocktail of antidepressants and monitored (asked dumb questions) each morning.
Not knowing the limits of confidentiality, I'd mentioned owning a firearm during an early evaluation. When I decided to voluntarily check out, one of the formalities that I couldn't avoid was signing my gun over to a friend for thirty days. I did this, and reclaimed it after a month, as was allowed per the explanation of my case manager.
I'm assuming that because my stay was voluntary, and the remission of the firearm temporary, that I am not considered to have been committed to a mental institution, or adjudicated as mentally ill.
One of my favorite hobbies is taking a big group of friends to the shooting range. That's why I bought a gun, and all my friends own them as well. I didn't buy it so I could snuff myself out or hurt anyone else. What I'm unsure of is whether it's legal for me to own this weapon, and whether I'm eligible to purchase another, or to apply for things like ATF pyrotechnic licenses.
If you wanna lecture me, go ahead. I appreciate the concern, but am not really interested in ditching one of my few joys.
Consult a lawyer in your jurisdiction.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 6:52 PM on December 13, 2009
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 6:52 PM on December 13, 2009
I'm not a firearms lawyer or a mental health practitioner, but going by what you said alone, you have fulfilled your obligation. Considering you have a case manager, I think they would have mentioned any other stipulations. I'd suggest asking them.
This is all assuming your being "unsure of is whether it's legal for me to own this weapon" implies that you acquired and own it legally and are wondering about any change in ownership legality, of course.
Anyway: your case manager should have the answers to these questions or be able to direct you to someone who does.
posted by griphus at 6:55 PM on December 13, 2009
This is all assuming your being "unsure of is whether it's legal for me to own this weapon" implies that you acquired and own it legally and are wondering about any change in ownership legality, of course.
Anyway: your case manager should have the answers to these questions or be able to direct you to someone who does.
posted by griphus at 6:55 PM on December 13, 2009
It really depends enormously on your locale. Laws about gun possession vary enormously from state to state, and other nations have their own laws. The wording of the law that applies to you is critical, and we don't know what it is.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 6:58 PM on December 13, 2009
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 6:58 PM on December 13, 2009
We don't know whether you're in Alaska, Australia, or Argentina. I would suggest contacting a mod with this information and seeing if they can post it in here, as this depends enormously on where you live.
posted by crapmatic at 7:07 PM on December 13, 2009
posted by crapmatic at 7:07 PM on December 13, 2009
I'm not a lawyer.
I am, however, someone who has been wrestling with suicidal depression for most of his life. Speaking as such, on at least four or five occasions in the past decade and a half if I'd had a gun handy I would not be typing right now. I understand that it is a joy and a comfort to you to be able to go to the range, but having access to a firearm when seriously depressed can very easily be a recipe for disaster. Please rethink its presence in your life for the time being.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 7:24 PM on December 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
I am, however, someone who has been wrestling with suicidal depression for most of his life. Speaking as such, on at least four or five occasions in the past decade and a half if I'd had a gun handy I would not be typing right now. I understand that it is a joy and a comfort to you to be able to go to the range, but having access to a firearm when seriously depressed can very easily be a recipe for disaster. Please rethink its presence in your life for the time being.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 7:24 PM on December 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
Possession is 99/100s of the law and I came here to say that, so best of luck.
posted by fixedgear at 7:25 PM on December 13, 2009
posted by fixedgear at 7:25 PM on December 13, 2009
Yeah, you need to check with a local lawyer or your case manager on this.
But let me say this, as someone who has a house full of guns, whose husband enjoys the hobby of shooting at the range, and who has a son who is also a collector and also uses firearms at his job (AF):
If you think it is ever even just a bit possible you could dive back into depression again, as a practical matter, can you simply just decide to let a friend keep your firearms for you? As a prior sufferer of deep depression myself, I would consider it simply the smart thing to do. (In my case I don't even know how to load one, and we would never keep loaded weaponry in the house in any case, of course.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:33 PM on December 13, 2009 [4 favorites]
But let me say this, as someone who has a house full of guns, whose husband enjoys the hobby of shooting at the range, and who has a son who is also a collector and also uses firearms at his job (AF):
If you think it is ever even just a bit possible you could dive back into depression again, as a practical matter, can you simply just decide to let a friend keep your firearms for you? As a prior sufferer of deep depression myself, I would consider it simply the smart thing to do. (In my case I don't even know how to load one, and we would never keep loaded weaponry in the house in any case, of course.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:33 PM on December 13, 2009 [4 favorites]
The yellow DOJ form that is signed when a firearm is purchased is held by the store where the firearm is purchased. It might be reviewed or seen by officials if there is need, otherwise it's just held at the store.
The form clearly states "adjudicated mentally defective". This means a JUDGE has to 5150 you, or appoint someone to care for you due to mental incompetence. This in no way excludes you from firearms ownership if you take care of your own mental health, or are on medications for mental conditions.
IANAL, but this is my understanding of the form after researching and reading it and the laws in the state of California.
I'm in a similar boat as you, and am VERY careful about my firearms ownership. If I think I'm getting to a bad place, I ask my SO to hide the guns for a bit. I also work quite closely with my practitioners to make sure my medication is working well, and I am caring for my mental health in other ways as well.
posted by Jinx of the 2nd Law at 7:34 PM on December 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
The form clearly states "adjudicated mentally defective". This means a JUDGE has to 5150 you, or appoint someone to care for you due to mental incompetence. This in no way excludes you from firearms ownership if you take care of your own mental health, or are on medications for mental conditions.
IANAL, but this is my understanding of the form after researching and reading it and the laws in the state of California.
I'm in a similar boat as you, and am VERY careful about my firearms ownership. If I think I'm getting to a bad place, I ask my SO to hide the guns for a bit. I also work quite closely with my practitioners to make sure my medication is working well, and I am caring for my mental health in other ways as well.
posted by Jinx of the 2nd Law at 7:34 PM on December 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
ask your case manager and see if you can get your answer in writing. keep this and all relevant paperwork with your weapon in case some issue arises. this will both protect you, legally, if you are doing everything right, and also alert authorities to your past history if, god forbid, something goes wrong and you need help.
i don't think you have to give up your gun, but if you do struggle with mental health issues, you should take reasonable measures to protect yourself (and really this goes for anyone, but especially people with illnesses that can impair judgment). since you do not use it for self-protection or as a service weapon that needs to be ready at all times, don't keep the gun loaded, keep it in a locked safe, keep the ammo elsewhere, like at one of your shooting buddies' houses.
posted by thinkingwoman at 7:38 PM on December 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
i don't think you have to give up your gun, but if you do struggle with mental health issues, you should take reasonable measures to protect yourself (and really this goes for anyone, but especially people with illnesses that can impair judgment). since you do not use it for self-protection or as a service weapon that needs to be ready at all times, don't keep the gun loaded, keep it in a locked safe, keep the ammo elsewhere, like at one of your shooting buddies' houses.
posted by thinkingwoman at 7:38 PM on December 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
I wanted to say what Jinx of the 2nd Law has already said.
While there may be more restrictive local laws, the ones I've read talk about adjudicated mental health commission. That is, a judge has found you mentally ill and ordered you into in-patient treatment.
If you've voluntarily committed yourself, that doesn't apply.
posted by Netzapper at 8:06 PM on December 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
While there may be more restrictive local laws, the ones I've read talk about adjudicated mental health commission. That is, a judge has found you mentally ill and ordered you into in-patient treatment.
If you've voluntarily committed yourself, that doesn't apply.
posted by Netzapper at 8:06 PM on December 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
What St. Alia of the Bunnies said. Even if you can keep them in your home, I think she has a great suggestion -- why not ask one of your shooting buddies to keep the gun for you, just in case?
posted by ohyouknow at 8:33 PM on December 13, 2009
posted by ohyouknow at 8:33 PM on December 13, 2009
If you wanna lecture me, go ahead. I appreciate the concern, but am not really interested in ditching one of my few joys.
You shouldn't own a gun. There is a significant risk that you'll die because you own a gun. Over half of all suicides in the US are performed with guns, and you were depressed enough to have to check yourself into a mental institution.
Playing with guns is a good time, and you should continue to do it if it gives you joy. You should find a new way to do it, though, that does not involve you having a gun in your house. Maybe you borrow a gun, maybe you can rent one at the range, but you should probably not even own one that you store with a friend. (If your friend isn't watchful you could easily convince them to let you take it home.)
Seriously, I have nothing against guns, or shooting, or hunting, or anything like that; and, ultimately, as someone who has worked with a whole host of suicidal patients I know that only you can make that final decision, but you should think of having a gun in your house as an affirmative decision to commit suicide at some point in the future. The risk is that great given what you've revealed in your question. Keep the joy, ditch the guns.
posted by OmieWise at 4:59 AM on December 14, 2009 [2 favorites]
As a counter to OmieWise's caring lecture, many gun stores and ranges have storage facilities. The gun can be stored there. Adds an extra step if someone is looking for quick access to a gun.
posted by gjc at 6:08 AM on December 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by gjc at 6:08 AM on December 14, 2009 [1 favorite]
Be a responsible gun owner and put it in someone else's careful and secure possession.
My father was a longtime gun collector. He's was also depressed and an alcoholic. During a relapse about 10 years ago my mom and little brother came home to find him sitting in the livingroom with a loaded handgun. He was going to kill himself. As he was dying from cancer this year, the medication and an infection was giving him a kind of fever. He was become paranoid that there were prowlers. After I pointed out to her that she had loaded guns in the house she and my brother went and secured them. The damage he could have done could have been devastating.
A local guy here recently went on a paranoid rampage -- he was such a nice guy, loved by his family, an avid hunter since he was a kid and a very responsible gun-owner said his family and friends. Not responsible enough to remove the weapon from his keep when he started having issues.
It's not about you knowing yourself, it's about taking care of something which has the potential for grave harm.
posted by amanda at 7:56 AM on December 14, 2009
My father was a longtime gun collector. He's was also depressed and an alcoholic. During a relapse about 10 years ago my mom and little brother came home to find him sitting in the livingroom with a loaded handgun. He was going to kill himself. As he was dying from cancer this year, the medication and an infection was giving him a kind of fever. He was become paranoid that there were prowlers. After I pointed out to her that she had loaded guns in the house she and my brother went and secured them. The damage he could have done could have been devastating.
A local guy here recently went on a paranoid rampage -- he was such a nice guy, loved by his family, an avid hunter since he was a kid and a very responsible gun-owner said his family and friends. Not responsible enough to remove the weapon from his keep when he started having issues.
It's not about you knowing yourself, it's about taking care of something which has the potential for grave harm.
posted by amanda at 7:56 AM on December 14, 2009
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posted by Think_Long at 6:51 PM on December 13, 2009