Mini Mac Me

January 14, 2005 8:46 PM

Is the new iMac Mini comparable in performance to the old G4 Quicksilver? Rather, are there any grievous issues as to why one should not consider purchasing an iMac Mini?
posted by Colloquial Collision to Computers & Internet (31 answers total)

Not to make the first post a language flame, but it's Mac Mini. iMacs have always been the line of consumer PCs with monitors built in. The mini is a whole new thing. I wouldn't mention it, but half of the references I've seen to this thing in comments make the mistake.
posted by abcde at 9:06 PM on January 14, 2005

Response by poster: Oops. My bad, sorry. But, is the Mac Mini essentially as powerful as its predecessor, the G4 Quicksilver?
posted by Colloquial Collision at 9:09 PM on January 14, 2005

Unfortunately there are two recognized drawbacks to the mini right now:

1. Single ram slot which isn't user upgradable
2. 4200 RPM laptop drive (again, not user servicable)

I wouldn't say either is a show stopper, but the 4200 RPM drive could be a major limiting factor if you're planning to do anything disk intensive (like o, say, FinalCut or Photoshop).

As far as general speed goes, with equal RAM, I'd give the mini the edge against a single processor Quicksilver. (The dualies are another matter entirely.)

I'm looking at buying one to supplement my PowerBook G4 - the mini would make a great dedicated server and would sit nicely on top my lacie firewire hard drives. Heck with a USB --> Ethernet adapter, it'd make a nice little firewall too.
posted by nathan_teske at 9:20 PM on January 14, 2005

i almost believed the hype til i really looked at the specs and realized that an older g4 tower is better unless you happen to live in a shoebox.

With the tower you can do dual monitors, it'll take more ram (multiple slots) you can slap a cheap 120gb drive in it, you can slap a cheap dvd burner in it. you can avoid the new silver hardware reality distortion field.


/* disclaimer */
i would buy a mini for my mom to replace her windows98 dell.
posted by freq at 9:23 PM on January 14, 2005

when you're buying the mac mini, i think the most important thing to consider is its form factor. all arguments against, that i have read here and elsewhere, relate crucially to this form factor whether acknowledged or not.

the mac mini is an exercise in small form factor (SFF). i write this as i sit next to my shuttle XPC, a PC that is built with a small form factor. computers like this are attractive to me. but computers like this introduce two particular problems: heat dissipation and tight spaces.

for example, hard drives have quite a few moving parts. they also generate quite a bit of heat. the faster the hard drive, the more heat that is generated by the drive. with small spaces such as exists with the mac mini, there is very little airflow and poor prospects to dissipate heat. a hard drive that overheats that space may damage itself or other components; this is why laptops often include drives that run at 4200 or 5400 RPM while many desktops can comfortable use 7200 RPM drives or even 10,000 RPM drives.

the non-upgradable ram is more likely a design issue ... as with the ipod, where everything is crammed into a tight space without designing for user intervention, apple has made ram upgrades subject to their voiding your warranty. it's more or less a concession that "if you don't know what you're doing, you may well fuck up your computer"; but, as with third party ipod battery replacement, i'll bet folks will figure out a way to get it done (in a non-apple-sanctioned fashion)...
posted by moz at 9:45 PM on January 14, 2005

A bad thing about the single RAM slot is that you have to toss the factory RAM if you upgrade. By comparison, that Quicksilver G4 has three RAM slots.
posted by smackfu at 9:52 PM on January 14, 2005

it's pretty clear that this is a comp for undemanding use. Either a first Mac or a supplementary one. If you intend to use this for intensive Photoshop, then you're not being realistic about what it is/isn't sold for. Don't fall for the euphoria and think you can get *all* the Mac magic by buying their most stripped down model. Consider carefully who they are marketing this thing to. If that's not really you, then don't buy it.

I like what freq says.
posted by scarabic at 9:55 PM on January 14, 2005

Never used a Mac...but I'm curious -- would a Mini Mac be a good 2nd computer for the kids -- 90% internet surfing and Flash joke sites, and 10% homework (word processing, mostly) -- any insights?
posted by davidmsc at 10:04 PM on January 14, 2005

Never used a Mac...but I'm curious -- would a Mini Mac be a good 2nd computer for the kids -- 90% internet surfing and Flash joke sites, and 10% homework (word processing, mostly) -- any insights?

I think that's about exactly what it's for.

Don't forget the music. Kids these days will have their music.

One of the nice things about this is you can cannibalize an older Windows box for its monitor and keyboard, if you have them and like them. I'm sure this hasn't escaped Apple's attention.

I found that the average use life of a CRT monitor was about 2 years, with degradation after 1 year. I just recalibrated my 3-year-old LCD yesterday, though, using an extended calibration I hadn't known about, and if anything it's better than it ever was.
posted by ikkyu2 at 10:10 PM on January 14, 2005

Response by poster: Thanks for the advice. I think I know what to get my parents to replace their god-awful Compaq.
posted by Colloquial Collision at 10:14 PM on January 14, 2005

In order to use an old windows monitor, don't you need a special adaptor?
posted by drezdn at 10:30 PM on January 14, 2005

I think it comes with the DVI-->VGA adapter.
posted by gramcracker at 10:37 PM on January 14, 2005

Never used a Mac...but I'm curious -- would a Mini Mac be a good 2nd computer for the kids -- 90% internet surfing and Flash joke sites, and 10% homework (word processing, mostly) -- any insights?

Sure, in terms of raw horsepower. Then you find out that all their friends use Yahoo! Messenger, which has no Mac version, and you're the Dad From Hell!

In other words, all other Mac caveats apply. Kids frequently have no interest in superiour UI design but may care greatly about compatibility. Find out what apps they use. Check them out from a Mac perspective.
posted by scarabic at 11:38 PM on January 14, 2005

Does anyone know about the power brick that it comes with? The cube had a wonderful form factor, but it was marred by an ENORMOUS power brick. I've a sneaking suspicion that the mini may suffer from a similar burden.

Something to consider when drooling over that wonderful footprint.
posted by aladfar at 11:45 PM on January 14, 2005

Then you find out that all their friends use Yahoo! Messenger, which has no Mac version

Feh - I know of at least two solid IM clients for the Mac I regularly use for talking to people on Jabber, Yahoo, and AIM.

The real question is - will the Mini run WoW?
posted by freebird at 11:52 PM on January 14, 2005

I found that the average use life of a CRT monitor was about 2 years, with degradation after 1 year.

Off topic, but seriously, you have to be buying some extreme junk. The monitor I have now as a seconday screen (was my primary until a few months ago) was built circa 1993 or 1994 [A Mitsubishi DiamondScan 20H, FYI]. Even the hundreds of BenQ / Acer monitors I had to deal with as a repair tech at an unnamed college took at least 2 years to break down, and probably had an average life of 5 years. And those that had the 2 year life all had a known defect from the manufacturer and, with that special "I buy hundreds of monitors from you all the time and you're going to stick me with defects?" attitude big places have, the manufacturer extended the warranty to the defective units. Heck, those were so bottom of the barrel I personally witnessed two of them set on fire during normal use (nobody there believed me, either, until a couple set on fire for the other techs :-D luckily they did self-extinguish -- I didn't plan to use the Halon (!!) extinguisher on them and suffocate myself).

You should expect 5 years from a CRT, at least. LCDs would last much longer if it weren't damn near impossible to replace fluorescent tube that will eventually burn out.
posted by shepd at 11:56 PM on January 14, 2005

Sure, in terms of raw horsepower. Then you find out that all their friends use Yahoo! Messenger, which has no Mac version, and you're the Dad From Hell!

http://messenger.yahoo.com/messenger/download/mac.html
posted by mrbill at 12:23 AM on January 15, 2005

A lot of people have been (rightly) concerned as to whether the RAM, HD, Airport and Bluetooth are user-upgradable without voiding warranty.

The Unofficial Apple Weblog has clarified in an interview with the Mac Mini product manager that those user upgrades will not void warranty, provided you don't break anything.

That said, I haven't found anything at Apple's support site specifically detailing what can and can't be upgraded without voiding warranty yet.
posted by danhon at 1:34 AM on January 15, 2005

1 gig ram max for a mac? Windows would be well suited... but a mac tends to keep most used data in the temporary storage more often.
posted by Dean Keaton at 3:38 AM on January 15, 2005

I found that the average use life of a CRT monitor was about 2 years, with degradation after 1 year. Gotta second the dispute with this. I've got a ViewSonic 21" monitor that has seen constant use since 1994 and has shown no real degradation. The school where I work has awful 15 or 17" CRTs that have been in use around 8 years. My take is that for low-budget environments, you should expect 10 years from your display and 5 from your CPU.

I was looking at replacing my mom's Bondi Blue iMac with a Mac Mini, but just buying her an LCD screen which looks terrific from her point of view (10x HD space, DVD, heaps of memory, 5x speed), but decided to split the cost of a newer iMac with my bro instead.
posted by plinth at 6:08 AM on January 15, 2005

Anyone with delusions of musicianship should also note that the mini does not have an audio in jack.

Also, all macs come with a DVI->VGA adapter these days.
posted by softlord at 7:01 AM on January 15, 2005

Anyone with delusions of musicianship should also note that the mini does not have an audio in jack.

true, but usb and firewire audio interfaces are abundant these days, and Apple is supposedly releasing a new firewire one themselves in less than a month. Deluded musicians would be better off purchasing such an interface anyway - these units usually provide multiple inputs & outputs, different connectors (xlr, etc), and better sound.

As an IT pro who works with all mac equipment (and I do consider myself blessed for that fact), I would wholeheartedly recommend the mac mini to anyone who wants a moderately-powered-but-nice little machine. The only thing that can get a little tricky is Apple's somewhat spotty track record with the first production run of any given model. I generally advise people to wait for the next revision of the model to avoid any strange issues.
posted by sluggo at 7:26 AM on January 15, 2005

you have to toss the factory RAM if you upgrade

Couldn't you sell the old ram on Ebay, defraying the cost of the upgrade?
posted by mecran01 at 8:36 AM on January 15, 2005

Here is a comparison to the old G4 cube. [courtesy of The Cult of Mac Blog]
posted by boost ventilator at 8:54 AM on January 15, 2005

Does anyone know about the power brick that it comes with?

You can see it in the quicktime VR. It's the white box directly in back of the mini. It's about the same width, shorter, and about a third the length. Personally, I don't care how big it is, because it will be out of sight behind my desk anyways.
posted by smackfu at 9:55 AM on January 15, 2005

The real question is - will the Mini run WoW?

Ha! Good question, Freebird, and the answer is "Of course!"

My PowerBook has specs almost identical to the Mac mini. I've played — and I'm ashamed to admit this — seven solid days (i.e. 168 hours) of WoW in the past two months, most of which have been played on that laptop.

The Mac mini is a perfectly capable WoW delivery device...
posted by jdroth at 10:02 AM on January 15, 2005

Um, just to clarify... The RAM is user upgradeable.
posted by pwb503 at 11:41 AM on January 15, 2005

"The Mac mini is a perfectly capable WoW delivery device..."

The mini's on board video is seriously underpowered. You'll only be able to play World of Warcraft with low res textures, no texture filtering, and no shaders.

It'll play, it'll even play without giving you the "your machine sucks" warning, but it'll play like crap. You'll be lucky to get a consistent 20ish frames per second of rendering.

(That said, I play WoW on a slightly weaker machine -- that does get the "you suck" warning -- with equally crappy video, and it's still fun. But I'd never call it "perfectly capable.")
posted by majick at 11:45 AM on January 15, 2005

Anyone with delusions of musicianship should also note that the mini does not have an audio in jack.

That's what the Griffin iMic is for.
posted by mrbill at 11:52 AM on January 15, 2005

As a slight tangent to this question, and coming from someone who's never really used a mac - how would this beast (daMini) go as a thin-client replacements?
At work we are running an MS Terminal Server environment, but have been finding that the Neoware and WYSE thin clients, not to put too fine a point on it, blow steal monkey chunks. Given that the Mac Mini is liable to be only a wee bit more for a full-featured box... is it a candidate? Or am I missing something?
posted by coriolisdave at 7:18 PM on January 15, 2005

As a slight tangent to this question, and coming from someone who's never really used a mac - how would this beast (daMini) go as a thin-client replacements?

With the cost of a screen, you might look into the optical-driveless iMac G5 model. This has a 17" flat screen and all the usual ports, but no optical drive. It is offered specifically for thin-client use.
posted by AlexReynolds at 1:39 PM on January 16, 2005