Please help me arrange rock songs

December 6, 2009 2:20 PM

How can I find out the arrangements of well-known rock songs, so I can learn how to create arrangements myself?

I am trying to create rock songs using Ableton software. That is, I'm singing on a track and then I'm adding midi tracks using midi instruments that emulate guitars, percussion, etc.

Except I've never been in a rock band so I don't know what I'm doing. I was a music major eons ago and know how to orchestrate music, but I can't figure out how to do rhythm guitar, etc. for my own songs.

I look up songs on You Tube and try to see what they're doing, and I've gotten a tiny bit of the knack of "scoring" "percussion" (i.e., playing fake drums), but my songs don't sound like rock songs.

For example, does a rhythm guitar just go "chord, chord, chord" to the beat? when I try to do that my song sounds muddy.

Are there any sources on the web or elsewhere that will show me what instrument is playing what on some rock songs?

I'm going to try to upload a song onto -- something -- so maybe people here can listen to it and tell me what's missing.

posted by DMelanogaster to Media & Arts (15 answers total)

Well, you're never going to get MIDI instruments to sound like real instruments. As for how rock songs are arranged, there are conventions, but you're really going to have to listen to songs and learn to hear them if you want to be able to do it yourself. But here are some things that can help: buy a book of sheet music that has the guitar parts written out. Frequently rhythm guitar parts are written as chords with slashes indicating the rhythm.

Also read Alan W. Pollack's notes on The Beatles and listen for what he talks about. He usually has a detailed description of the arrangement.
posted by ludwig_van at 2:41 PM on December 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

Have you ever opened a midi file from the internet in any music notation software? Most will display the song in sheet music form as if it were transcribed note-for-note (different instruments on different staffs...just like a real score).

If you search the internet for well-known rock songs and do this, you'll see how they would theoretically be notated in this form. You'll noticed the types of rhythms that are played for the chords and the common types of drum beats.
posted by aswego at 2:53 PM on December 6, 2009

You can learn a lot about how your favorite songs work by opening them in Musicnotes and playing around with the individual instrumentation settings. If you look at enough concrete examples, I'm sure you'll pick up the effects you're after intuitively, by osmosis.

I've been amusing myself lately by taking Motorhead songs, re-orchestrating them for string ensemble, church organ and celesta and screwing around with the rhythm and tempo until they come out sounding like Messiaen. Good times!
posted by aquafortis at 3:33 PM on December 6, 2009

In Japan, full (or nearly full) arrangements of rock songs called "band scores" are very common. They're actually intended for bands who want to play the songs and sound right, so they should be exactly what you're after. If you know an adventurous music store or have a friend in Japan, you could investigate that route.
posted by No-sword at 3:38 PM on December 6, 2009

For example, does a rhythm guitar just go "chord, chord, chord" to the beat? when I try to do that my song sounds muddy.

Well, there's that (short answer: sometimes, but not always), but there's also the fact that guitar chords often contain different notes than piano chords due to the differences in fingering. But the big thing is, of course, that guitars are strummed, meaning each note starts at a very slightly different time. This is frustratingly hard to recreate in MIDI.

I really think you're overthinking this, though. Just listen to some songs you like and pay attention.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:10 PM on December 6, 2009

There's a couple of clues that can help. For example, the kick drum generally follows the bass guitar (or the other way round) in terms of rhythm, which can simplify things a lot. Rhythm guitar often (but not always) sticks to the same basic rhythm for a while, maybe changing it up between verses and choruses - try tapping the rhythm out while listening to a song to see how ones that you like tend to go.

A good way of deconstructing some songs is to use something like Powertab. Google for "[name of song] power tab", or look on sites like powertabs.net or Ultimate Guitar to find Powertab files - often they'll just have guitar parts, and obviously they're not official transcriptions, but every now and then you'll find one that has a whole bunch of parts that you can study.
posted by ZsigE at 4:26 PM on December 6, 2009

Response by poster: aquafortis, you're paying $x.xx per song? just asking.

thanks, everyone, you've given me some great advice here.
posted by DMelanogaster at 4:57 PM on December 6, 2009

Basic drum pattern for rock and roll is bass on the one, snare on the two, bass one the three, snare on the four, with eighth notes played on a closed hi-hat or a ride cymbal.

As noted above, bass and drums are usually "locked in" that is bass and drums hit at the same time.

It really is chord, chord, chord.

Really your best bet is a cheap acoustic. You'll be writing songs in no time.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:31 PM on December 6, 2009

But the big thing is, of course, that guitars are strummed, meaning each note starts at a very slightly different time. This is frustratingly hard to recreate in MIDI.

Plus, of course, even in simple rhythms guitars are strummed both up and down, giving the basics of a two-component rhythm as down and up not only sound different, but are often used differently depending on where they fall within the signature. You might find guitar tabulature on the internet that will give you the basic up-down pattern/s involved for particular songs, but it's not included in tab for every song by any stretch.
posted by Sparx at 11:55 PM on December 6, 2009

Response by poster: Here is a song I've been working on, to give you a concrete illustration of what I mean.

(please excuse the sour intonation of my voice, which is (partly) due to an ongoing fight with feedback):

"Mama"

As you can hear, I have a rudimentary guitar thing and some percussion, but I need more. So what should I do for the other parts? This is my quest.
posted by DMelanogaster at 10:32 AM on December 7, 2009

There isn't really any "should" here. That song could be complete as it is, or you could add 100 more elements to it. It's your song. You really need to listen to music that inspires you and pick out what it does that you want to your music to do.

That said, I think your song would be a lot better if the arrangement changed as the song progressed, which is something most pop songs do. I'd add a pad instrument, like a keyboard or a busier guitar, and a bassline at the very least. Typically different sections of a song, e.g. verse and chorus, will have different things happening arrangement-wise to distinguish them. Contrast between sections goes a long way.

You might also find some of the articles in this recording guide helpful.
posted by ludwig_van at 11:38 AM on December 7, 2009

To deal with the feedback, try listening to the song on headphones while singing, rather than listening on speakers. As others have said, playing this song on a real guitar would sound infinitely better, even if you aren't a great guitar player. Another recommendation (even though this is a rough track) would be to lower the volume of your voice track, or raise the drums/guitar tracks a bit....mixing them a bit more cleanly. (The voice is a bit overpowering the rest of the song)

As for what else to add, what else is on the original song? Most "rock" tracks are drums, lead/rhythm guitar, Bass, and vocals. Maybe a tambourine or shaker or something in there. What is your overall goal? if you want to recreate the song as it was performed, then you would just want to listen for what different instruments were played on the original recording. (which can sometimes be tough if there are synths and stuff like that)...If you are trying to take the song in an entirely different direction, then replace some of those instruments with ones that fit your target genre....if you're going for an electronic sound, add synthy stuff, if you want orchestral, add some strings, violin, cello..whatever. Trumpets and Saxophones? Go nuts :)
posted by AltReality at 11:48 AM on December 7, 2009

Response by poster: AltReality, I don't know what you mean by "what else is on the original song" - do you mean the recording I just posted? that is the original song. I was just playing around with an electric guitar midi thing that automatically does fifths, and a bunch of percussion.

I wish I knew what to do with a regular guitar. I know how to play the guitar, but everything I play comes out sounding like Joan Baez ca. 1968.

I want to ROCK, man!!!

It's not just about taste, it's about learning how to play in a certain genre . That's what I'm going for here/

I want to get OUT of folk, so that's why I was asking about rock.

I was a music major in the Pleistocene era and I can write a string quartet etc. but I want to learn more about how you put together a (simulated) rock band using midi software - that was really my question. Probably I wasn't too clear about that.

OK thank you, I really appreciate all these comments and will use them to the best of my ability.
posted by DMelanogaster at 1:04 PM on December 7, 2009

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that was an original piece....if that's the case, I think the lyrics are awesome and it has potential to be an awesome finished song. :)

I would repeat what Sys Rq stated in that you should listen to some songs that sound similar to how you want yours to sound, and determine which instruments were used, then you can add those into your mix.

I think a pad would be good here, changing up at the chorus a bit...(some type of synthy tone or ambient noise sort of thing) ....and definitely add a Bass guitar...(repeating ludwig van's comment) :)
posted by AltReality at 3:29 PM on December 7, 2009

I want to ROCK, man!!!

If you want to rock out on guitar, try googling 'power chords'
posted by Bearman at 3:49 PM on December 7, 2009