The wording of this question represents how Weird this problem is to me!
September 16, 2009 6:38 PM Subscribe
ClichéTragedyFilter: I've got a friend I went to high school with, who I saw every day. Now, in college, I see her twice a week on a good week. Half of me still thinks it would be a good idea to "enhance" things, however, all of me knows I would never even try unless I had some advice from someone who's had at least minimal experience. Which is more than I have.
I know I'm not in the most imaginative predicament, so I'll try to make it short.
The basics: This Friend, shall we call her Mary Lou, was a Friend in high school, so of course I got to see her every day. But, I left for college for a year, ran out of money, came back to the community college here for a while. And saw her again! I only see her about twice a week now though, IF all variables are in place. Because, sure, she's not always going to stand in a place where I can easily find her.
Mary Lou also works a lot, aside from being Naturally Independent, so it's a little hard to make plans outside of school. She doesn't seem unenthusiastic when I TRY to make plans, she just never follows through.
But I keep remembering how close we sort of ended up being back in high school.. maybe she Liked me back then, maybe she was just extra nice. Maybe she's just extra busy now. There are many good reason to try to pursue something.. we like the same music, which is almost impossible, and she is quite interesting, if not just slightly flaky (see above).
So, I'd have about the 10 minutes I MIGHT see her before class to make this decision to say something about all this...
Sorry I'm being so vague. I am just too embarrassed.
Oh. And according to other questions I've read, NOT ambushing is the best bet, but I can't just say "Hey let's go do _________ sometime" because after all, we ARE friends so that would be too ambiguous.
I'm thinking of saying something that represents how awk this whole situation is for me...
"Hey, ML, are you still going out with that kid?"
"Why, no." ("Why, yes.")
"Well, you know, would you have Gone Out with me if I'd asked back in High School?" ("Oh well.")
"Why, I'll have to think about that. How awk you are!"
"Hey ML, would you consider it an ambush for me to ask you to Go Out with me?"
Do you see how inept I am?
So, basically:
1. She's totally independent and I'm a total co-dependent, I almost never see her, so what makes me think I'd see her more if This Thing was successful?
2. If timing was better, I personally think we would be Compatible, though.
3. I am inept and only have about 10 minutes per week for persuasiveness.
4. She is Super Awesome, but might not Realise My Advances at first...like I'm not the Master Of Ambiguity as it is.
I am a Lady, by the way. Not like it MATTERS. But, nonetheless I kind of especially want to hear from people who have been in this Specific Situation. Because I'm assuming Straight People have it easier.
No offense intended! I'm just assuming!
If you guys want any clarification, I risked not doing this anonymous for a reason!
I know I'm not in the most imaginative predicament, so I'll try to make it short.
The basics: This Friend, shall we call her Mary Lou, was a Friend in high school, so of course I got to see her every day. But, I left for college for a year, ran out of money, came back to the community college here for a while. And saw her again! I only see her about twice a week now though, IF all variables are in place. Because, sure, she's not always going to stand in a place where I can easily find her.
Mary Lou also works a lot, aside from being Naturally Independent, so it's a little hard to make plans outside of school. She doesn't seem unenthusiastic when I TRY to make plans, she just never follows through.
But I keep remembering how close we sort of ended up being back in high school.. maybe she Liked me back then, maybe she was just extra nice. Maybe she's just extra busy now. There are many good reason to try to pursue something.. we like the same music, which is almost impossible, and she is quite interesting, if not just slightly flaky (see above).
So, I'd have about the 10 minutes I MIGHT see her before class to make this decision to say something about all this...
Sorry I'm being so vague. I am just too embarrassed.
Oh. And according to other questions I've read, NOT ambushing is the best bet, but I can't just say "Hey let's go do _________ sometime" because after all, we ARE friends so that would be too ambiguous.
I'm thinking of saying something that represents how awk this whole situation is for me...
"Hey, ML, are you still going out with that kid?"
"Why, no." ("Why, yes.")
"Well, you know, would you have Gone Out with me if I'd asked back in High School?" ("Oh well.")
"Why, I'll have to think about that. How awk you are!"
"Hey ML, would you consider it an ambush for me to ask you to Go Out with me?"
Do you see how inept I am?
So, basically:
1. She's totally independent and I'm a total co-dependent, I almost never see her, so what makes me think I'd see her more if This Thing was successful?
2. If timing was better, I personally think we would be Compatible, though.
3. I am inept and only have about 10 minutes per week for persuasiveness.
4. She is Super Awesome, but might not Realise My Advances at first...like I'm not the Master Of Ambiguity as it is.
I am a Lady, by the way. Not like it MATTERS. But, nonetheless I kind of especially want to hear from people who have been in this Specific Situation. Because I'm assuming Straight People have it easier.
No offense intended! I'm just assuming!
If you guys want any clarification, I risked not doing this anonymous for a reason!
I am a Lady, by the way. Not like it MATTERS.
Of course it matters. Does she date women? You didn't really say. If she doesn't, she's not going to go out with you. Or worse, she will, kinda sorta but not really and don't tell anyone.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:45 PM on September 16, 2009 [7 favorites]
Of course it matters. Does she date women? You didn't really say. If she doesn't, she's not going to go out with you. Or worse, she will, kinda sorta but not really and don't tell anyone.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:45 PM on September 16, 2009 [7 favorites]
First, I want you to take a deep breath.
Okay, now another one.
Okay. Sorry, you just looked like you were tied in knots, you poor thing.
Now: there is one very important detail I think you maybe neglected to mention. I'm assuming that you want a romantic relationship with Mary Lou. And you're trying to ascertan whether Mary Lou would want the same.
However, what I think would help us make the best guess is: knowing whether Mary Lou is gay or straight. I don't believe you've mentioned knowing that in your post.
If you're not sure, that may be something to clarify first -- if she's 100% straight, then things probably won't work no matter what you do.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:45 PM on September 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Okay, now another one.
Okay. Sorry, you just looked like you were tied in knots, you poor thing.
Now: there is one very important detail I think you maybe neglected to mention. I'm assuming that you want a romantic relationship with Mary Lou. And you're trying to ascertan whether Mary Lou would want the same.
However, what I think would help us make the best guess is: knowing whether Mary Lou is gay or straight. I don't believe you've mentioned knowing that in your post.
If you're not sure, that may be something to clarify first -- if she's 100% straight, then things probably won't work no matter what you do.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:45 PM on September 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure this is a tragedy. It sounds like you have a crush on your probably-straight, possibly-curious/questioning friend and she doesn't seem to reciprocate. My guess is that if she were bisexual or a lesbian, the two of you would have already had a conversation about your mutual interest in women, and at some point in the conversation one of you would have either asked directly or hinted at the possibility of your becoming involved.
Get your mind off of this friend--you're fixated, you're infatuated, you're idealizing her--and meet women who openly date women. Ask one of them out.
Don't let yourself become someone's experiment or secret girlfriend or female-friend-with-benefits-until-I-get-a-boyfriend or anything like that. If I'm wrong, and this friend is openly interested in women, then that's not something to be especially worried about, but I've seen a couple people in my life get their hearts bashed in by straight/closeted people who took advantage of this type of situation.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:08 PM on September 16, 2009
Get your mind off of this friend--you're fixated, you're infatuated, you're idealizing her--and meet women who openly date women. Ask one of them out.
Don't let yourself become someone's experiment or secret girlfriend or female-friend-with-benefits-until-I-get-a-boyfriend or anything like that. If I'm wrong, and this friend is openly interested in women, then that's not something to be especially worried about, but I've seen a couple people in my life get their hearts bashed in by straight/closeted people who took advantage of this type of situation.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:08 PM on September 16, 2009
Ah yes, I should have mentioned this. She is (or at least, two years ago when she told me this) bisexual. So I don't have to worry about that, good thing, because trying to find out is an impossible battle!
Loto: You know, that's what I'm inclined to think too. But maybe she's one of those people (like me) who won't even think anything of it unless I bring up my own thoughts on the subject. It just seems like if I told her she would be for the idea, but other times she seems a little distant (which could just be her personality). Again, looking back on high school when I got to see her more often, what I see in my memory was someone who would have been interested. Maybe it's (and this is just the optimistic part of me talking) an interest that simply has to be ... well, lit, for lack of a better metaphor.
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 7:12 PM on September 16, 2009
Loto: You know, that's what I'm inclined to think too. But maybe she's one of those people (like me) who won't even think anything of it unless I bring up my own thoughts on the subject. It just seems like if I told her she would be for the idea, but other times she seems a little distant (which could just be her personality). Again, looking back on high school when I got to see her more often, what I see in my memory was someone who would have been interested. Maybe it's (and this is just the optimistic part of me talking) an interest that simply has to be ... well, lit, for lack of a better metaphor.
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 7:12 PM on September 16, 2009
OH. Meg_Murry...when it did happen to come up (and I already knew because a friend told me), she told me she liked one of her other (female) friends...of course, that too was two years ago. And she's had a few boyfriends in between. So nothing could have happened between us then because 1. I would have never brought it up, myself 2. I didn't want to devalue how she felt about her other friend at the time..
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 7:14 PM on September 16, 2009
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 7:14 PM on September 16, 2009
Aargh, rip the bandaid off. "Are you single now? Would I be crazy to ask you out on a date?"* Although I'm inclined to the same interpretation as Loto (when I've been interested in someone the vaguest whiff of their suggesting plans with me would be enthusiastically attached to), I don't want to say for sure, because you are clearly down with some serious obfuscation.
You just don't have time for finesse, or to circle around her reactions to vague feelers until you have the confidence to either forge ahead feeling practically guaranteed of success or give up hope virtually convinced it is indeed hopeless. Either be direct or give it up, as you're going inevitably it will just stay at a vague distance until she vanishes from your life one day with little or no warning.
*okay, when I was single I never followed this advice. But I SHOULD have, man, I would have saved myself some major time!
posted by nanojath at 7:27 PM on September 16, 2009
You just don't have time for finesse, or to circle around her reactions to vague feelers until you have the confidence to either forge ahead feeling practically guaranteed of success or give up hope virtually convinced it is indeed hopeless. Either be direct or give it up, as you're going inevitably it will just stay at a vague distance until she vanishes from your life one day with little or no warning.
*okay, when I was single I never followed this advice. But I SHOULD have, man, I would have saved myself some major time!
posted by nanojath at 7:27 PM on September 16, 2009
Best answer: If you know she's interested in women, and you want to date her, why not just ask her out?
"Mary Lou, I've got a crush on you. Can I take you out on a date?"
If you'd rather preserve the friendship as-is, stop over-analyzing and stop expecting to find clues that she's interested. That strategy isn't working. Either be direct or stick to being friends.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:37 PM on September 16, 2009
"Mary Lou, I've got a crush on you. Can I take you out on a date?"
If you'd rather preserve the friendship as-is, stop over-analyzing and stop expecting to find clues that she's interested. That strategy isn't working. Either be direct or stick to being friends.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:37 PM on September 16, 2009
OK. So I'm going to be direct.
What should I say??? I'm going to start with "Do you still have a boyfriend?" or something of the sort, I think. I will try to be as non-ambush as possible.
You know ... she did ask me if I wanted to go to this event she saw on a flyer while we were walking around the hall before class today ... I do wonder if it will even materialise, but it's something! And she did SAY she'd visit me at work ... it's just that we make plans (both vague AND quite specific) and they don't usually end up happening for one reason or another. I'm guessing she's incredibly busy...or something.
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 7:40 PM on September 16, 2009
What should I say??? I'm going to start with "Do you still have a boyfriend?" or something of the sort, I think. I will try to be as non-ambush as possible.
You know ... she did ask me if I wanted to go to this event she saw on a flyer while we were walking around the hall before class today ... I do wonder if it will even materialise, but it's something! And she did SAY she'd visit me at work ... it's just that we make plans (both vague AND quite specific) and they don't usually end up happening for one reason or another. I'm guessing she's incredibly busy...or something.
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 7:40 PM on September 16, 2009
I'm also going to walk to her house this weekend even though it's in my best interest to wait until class again next week.
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 7:46 PM on September 16, 2009
posted by lhude sing cuccu at 7:46 PM on September 16, 2009
"Hey X, can I take you out on a date?"
posted by lockestockbarrel at 8:18 PM on September 16, 2009
posted by lockestockbarrel at 8:18 PM on September 16, 2009
The answer to "Do you still have a boyfriend" is subsumed by the answer to "can I take you out on a date", so you don't have to ask about the boyfriend.
If she says "Sorry, I still have a boyfriend": both questions answered.
posted by mendel at 8:30 PM on September 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
If she says "Sorry, I still have a boyfriend": both questions answered.
posted by mendel at 8:30 PM on September 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
I think you need to be very direct -- easier to find out if she's interested, harder for her to be flaky. It's pretty easy: "Mary Lou, would you like to go on a date, to SpecificEvent on Date? I could pick you up at Time."
posted by Houstonian at 5:41 AM on September 17, 2009
posted by Houstonian at 5:41 AM on September 17, 2009
Best answer: You know ... she did ask me if I wanted to go to this event she saw on a flyer while we were walking around the hall before class today ... I do wonder if it will even materialise, but it's something! And she did SAY she'd visit me at work ... it's just that we make plans (both vague AND quite specific) and they don't usually end up happening for one reason or another. I'm guessing she's incredibly busy...or something.
I'm a straight guy, and this sounds like exactly the situation I have found myself in, as I'm sure many humans have.
Sorry if it sounds harsh, and I am talking to myself as much as to anyone else, but as others have said, if she was interested in you as more than a friend, she would not flake out on those vague or specifically planned meetings with you.
That "It's something!" thinking is, I think, not good. It has been screwing me over for years
But I'm not trying to put you off. I say go for it, just ask her, life is short, you've got nothing to lose, other than your friendship, possibly, but in my experience, I've been able to maintain the friendship.
But then the question becomes do you WANT a friendship with someone you want to be more than friends with, who KNOWS how you feel, but can't or won't reciprocate those feelings, and then you will probably get to watch them dating others, all of whom you'll hate of course, falling in love, planning marriage, confiding in you with so many intimate details you don't want to know, but you're the only person she can talk to about these things, and blah blah blah.
Then you go home alone and she goes home to her boy/girl-friend who she's just been whining and/or gushing about to you for the last 3 hours, while you've chewed your fingernails down to the flesh and drank 10 beers.
Beware the Friend Zone.
No, I'm not bitter at all
Or perhaps you can easily deal with rejection, shrug it off, continue to be buddies with this girl, but don't focus on her, and seek other opportunities for yourself.
---
On re-reading this, it sounds incredibly negative. I guess it was a bit of a stream of consciousness, and your comment I quoted at the top set off some all too familiar alarm bells. To summarise my message, it is basically to consider what will happen if your advances are rejected, and how it will change the dynamic of your relationship, and if you still think it's worth trying, GO FOR IT! Nothing ventured, nothing gained!
posted by Diag at 7:59 AM on September 17, 2009
I'm a straight guy, and this sounds like exactly the situation I have found myself in, as I'm sure many humans have.
Sorry if it sounds harsh, and I am talking to myself as much as to anyone else, but as others have said, if she was interested in you as more than a friend, she would not flake out on those vague or specifically planned meetings with you.
That "It's something!" thinking is, I think, not good. It has been screwing me over for years
But I'm not trying to put you off. I say go for it, just ask her, life is short, you've got nothing to lose, other than your friendship, possibly, but in my experience, I've been able to maintain the friendship.
But then the question becomes do you WANT a friendship with someone you want to be more than friends with, who KNOWS how you feel, but can't or won't reciprocate those feelings, and then you will probably get to watch them dating others, all of whom you'll hate of course, falling in love, planning marriage, confiding in you with so many intimate details you don't want to know, but you're the only person she can talk to about these things, and blah blah blah.
Then you go home alone and she goes home to her boy/girl-friend who she's just been whining and/or gushing about to you for the last 3 hours, while you've chewed your fingernails down to the flesh and drank 10 beers.
Beware the Friend Zone.
No, I'm not bitter at all
Or perhaps you can easily deal with rejection, shrug it off, continue to be buddies with this girl, but don't focus on her, and seek other opportunities for yourself.
---
On re-reading this, it sounds incredibly negative. I guess it was a bit of a stream of consciousness, and your comment I quoted at the top set off some all too familiar alarm bells. To summarise my message, it is basically to consider what will happen if your advances are rejected, and how it will change the dynamic of your relationship, and if you still think it's worth trying, GO FOR IT! Nothing ventured, nothing gained!
posted by Diag at 7:59 AM on September 17, 2009
I also agree with lockestockbarrel. Just be direct about what you want. I'm definitely not going share my situation in a forum but the story is basically the same. Suffice to say, they said no after my direct approach, after 3 or 4 years of my lollygagging. Just ask yourself if you really want this to stretch out to that many years. I bash my head every single time I think of how much time I wasted trying to impress this character. I'm just the kind of person who likes dreaming up happy scenarios and watch them get squished to the ground because I don't pay attention to reality at all.
Maybe I'm a fool but I don't see your situation going well either. I have a feeling you probably know how it's going to end. Most people know the solution to their problems. Busy people... aren't great friends; don't expect them to be great lovers. Don't fool around though; just go ask her directly. Not rudely, but directly. The way you handle the beginning of the relationship is how the relationship is going to go. So just.. please. do yourself the favor. Maybe what you perceive to be her independence is just a front. I mean people see me as ultra-independent and intelligent. So I have to put up such a front not to disappoint them, which is a problem because finding people to share things with especially when they've already made up your personality for you is kind of difficult.
posted by fairykarma at 1:14 PM on September 17, 2009
Maybe I'm a fool but I don't see your situation going well either. I have a feeling you probably know how it's going to end. Most people know the solution to their problems. Busy people... aren't great friends; don't expect them to be great lovers. Don't fool around though; just go ask her directly. Not rudely, but directly. The way you handle the beginning of the relationship is how the relationship is going to go. So just.. please. do yourself the favor. Maybe what you perceive to be her independence is just a front. I mean people see me as ultra-independent and intelligent. So I have to put up such a front not to disappoint them, which is a problem because finding people to share things with especially when they've already made up your personality for you is kind of difficult.
posted by fairykarma at 1:14 PM on September 17, 2009
Best answer: Meg_Murry's advice is spot on. Tell her you've had a crush on her for a little while now; don't act like it's the end of the world or a tragedy. Crushes are fun! They are also non-binding and don't carry any pressure to coddle your feelings or act regretful if she doesn't reciprocate, which some girls are inclined to do (because, you know, that's what we're told to do) but can give a poor crushee unfounded hope to continue their crush on.
"Hey Mary Lou, I have a bit of a confession to make; I'm kind of crushing on you right now. Can I take you out sometime?" and if she says yes, have a date planned in advance so you can say, "Great, how about (date) at, say, (time)? My treat!" (This is especially important if she's a bit flaky.) If she says no, "Oh, well, it was worth a shot!"
IF she rejects you, don't be afraid to distance yourself from her for a while in order to deal with the sting of rejection without projecting your feelings on to her. She can't help whether or not she's into you, you can't help whether or not you're into her - but what you can do is not be a douche about both or either of those things. You can take a break from hanging with her or whatever for a little while and still be friends with her later, when you're capable of being objective. You can even do this without letting her know; if she's at all perceptive, she'll understand, but if you force a conversation about it, that might be awkward.
Don't be like Dlag; don't assume that sacrificing your emotional well-being in a passive-aggressive attempt to insinuate yourself into her life despite the fact that she doesn't reciprocate your feelings for you entitles you to her time and attention. That way lies madness - not to mention that it makes you a lousy friend, since friends value their friends' emotional needs enough to not view their happiness and relationship successes with bitterness and resentment. This is a crush. Think of it as a potentially fun thing that you can enjoy and not as a tragic source of potential heartbreak. You are in college! If you were in high school, I'd say that yeah, straight folks have it easier, relationship-wise, but college is generally a pretty cool time to be queer. You'll meet lots more cute lesbians and bi ladies, on whom you will develop lots more crushes. That is what college is FOR. (I mean, that and, like, learning? But mostly, crushes.)
posted by ellehumour at 5:40 PM on September 17, 2009
"Hey Mary Lou, I have a bit of a confession to make; I'm kind of crushing on you right now. Can I take you out sometime?" and if she says yes, have a date planned in advance so you can say, "Great, how about (date) at, say, (time)? My treat!" (This is especially important if she's a bit flaky.) If she says no, "Oh, well, it was worth a shot!"
IF she rejects you, don't be afraid to distance yourself from her for a while in order to deal with the sting of rejection without projecting your feelings on to her. She can't help whether or not she's into you, you can't help whether or not you're into her - but what you can do is not be a douche about both or either of those things. You can take a break from hanging with her or whatever for a little while and still be friends with her later, when you're capable of being objective. You can even do this without letting her know; if she's at all perceptive, she'll understand, but if you force a conversation about it, that might be awkward.
Don't be like Dlag; don't assume that sacrificing your emotional well-being in a passive-aggressive attempt to insinuate yourself into her life despite the fact that she doesn't reciprocate your feelings for you entitles you to her time and attention. That way lies madness - not to mention that it makes you a lousy friend, since friends value their friends' emotional needs enough to not view their happiness and relationship successes with bitterness and resentment. This is a crush. Think of it as a potentially fun thing that you can enjoy and not as a tragic source of potential heartbreak. You are in college! If you were in high school, I'd say that yeah, straight folks have it easier, relationship-wise, but college is generally a pretty cool time to be queer. You'll meet lots more cute lesbians and bi ladies, on whom you will develop lots more crushes. That is what college is FOR. (I mean, that and, like, learning? But mostly, crushes.)
posted by ellehumour at 5:40 PM on September 17, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
She doesn't seem unenthusiastic when I TRY to make plans, she just never follows through.
It sucks but if she was interested in you she would make time to see you and follow up when you tried to make plans.
posted by Loto at 6:43 PM on September 16, 2009 [1 favorite]