Fish oil and depression
July 29, 2009 7:56 AM Subscribe
Treating depression with fish oil
I have been depressed for a few months and it's not the first time. I've tried antidepressants before and had scary side effects so I'm trying to treat my depression naturally this time. I also have anxiety with the depression. A few days ago I started taking fish oil capsules. I started with three that each have 300 mg of EHA. I noticed a change but felt I needed more, so I upped it to four or five capsules a day. My question is, can I OD on this? I'm especially worried about OD-ing on vitamin A. The nutrition info on the bottle doesn't say how much vitamin A is in each capsule but I'm assuming there's a lot. How much is too much?
I have been depressed for a few months and it's not the first time. I've tried antidepressants before and had scary side effects so I'm trying to treat my depression naturally this time. I also have anxiety with the depression. A few days ago I started taking fish oil capsules. I started with three that each have 300 mg of EHA. I noticed a change but felt I needed more, so I upped it to four or five capsules a day. My question is, can I OD on this? I'm especially worried about OD-ing on vitamin A. The nutrition info on the bottle doesn't say how much vitamin A is in each capsule but I'm assuming there's a lot. How much is too much?
The Weston Price Foundation: Vitamin A, Vitamin D and Cod Liver Oil: Some Clarifications
There are a variety of studies on the actual amount of DHA or EPA required to alleviate unipolar depression - one Taiwanese study used a total of 10 gm combined EPA + DHA in a 3:2 ration. (...but start gradually and google around for the current recommendations). If you are going to be taking a lot of fish oil, I would recommend using a high quality oil and not capsules - I take liquid Carlson Lab's fish oil (both their Cod Liver Oil and 'The Very Finest Fish Oil') which I purchase from www.iherb.com at about 1/2 the retail price. The nice thing about Carlson's is that it's relatively high in both EPA & DHA, and palatable (lemon or orange flavors).
I would also suggest St. Johns Wort capsules (standardized) for depression (I found them helpful and somewhat similar in affect to SSRIs without the weird negative side effects), and other adaptogens such as rhodiola rosea also have strong anti-depressive affects. Iherb.com is a good cheap company for these (planetary formulas is a good brand, though pricy), or if you wanted to go the bulk powder route I can recommend the standardized powders sold at beyond-a-century.com (much cheaper).
Also consider adding 30 minutes of aerobic activity and/or weight lifting to your approach, there are plenty of studies showing their efficacy in alleviating depression. And of course, if you can afford it and want to go that route, Cognitive-Behavioral therapy with the right therapist is probably the best way to go. Best of luck to you.
posted by Auden at 8:33 AM on July 29, 2009
There are a variety of studies on the actual amount of DHA or EPA required to alleviate unipolar depression - one Taiwanese study used a total of 10 gm combined EPA + DHA in a 3:2 ration. (...but start gradually and google around for the current recommendations). If you are going to be taking a lot of fish oil, I would recommend using a high quality oil and not capsules - I take liquid Carlson Lab's fish oil (both their Cod Liver Oil and 'The Very Finest Fish Oil') which I purchase from www.iherb.com at about 1/2 the retail price. The nice thing about Carlson's is that it's relatively high in both EPA & DHA, and palatable (lemon or orange flavors).
I would also suggest St. Johns Wort capsules (standardized) for depression (I found them helpful and somewhat similar in affect to SSRIs without the weird negative side effects), and other adaptogens such as rhodiola rosea also have strong anti-depressive affects. Iherb.com is a good cheap company for these (planetary formulas is a good brand, though pricy), or if you wanted to go the bulk powder route I can recommend the standardized powders sold at beyond-a-century.com (much cheaper).
Also consider adding 30 minutes of aerobic activity and/or weight lifting to your approach, there are plenty of studies showing their efficacy in alleviating depression. And of course, if you can afford it and want to go that route, Cognitive-Behavioral therapy with the right therapist is probably the best way to go. Best of luck to you.
posted by Auden at 8:33 AM on July 29, 2009
As with all such findings, the Lin and Su study has been leveraged by the supplement industry (as happened with similarly modest findings for St Johns Wort earlier) into claims that EPA/DHA is a miracle cure for depression.
Read this, and make up your own mind. (PubMed link) The jury is really still out on this, and anyone who tells you the science clearly indicates fish oil can mimic pharmaceutical antidepressant effects probably has an ideological or financial stake in that claim. Here's the last para of the abstract:
In summary there is not sufficient evidence to suggest the use of fish oils for the treatment of depression and no evidence for the prevention of depression. Nonetheless, fish oils are good for the heart, have no demonstrated adverse effects when taken in reasonable dosages, and could potentially be beneficial for mood. Although patients should be discouraged from taking fish oils as a substitute for antidepressants or mood stabilizers, if they wish to take fish oils as an adjunct to those treatments, they should be aware of the tentative nature of the evidence for a beneficial effect on mood and inform themselves about possible contaminants.
posted by fourcheesemac at 8:45 AM on July 29, 2009 [3 favorites]
Read this, and make up your own mind. (PubMed link) The jury is really still out on this, and anyone who tells you the science clearly indicates fish oil can mimic pharmaceutical antidepressant effects probably has an ideological or financial stake in that claim. Here's the last para of the abstract:
In summary there is not sufficient evidence to suggest the use of fish oils for the treatment of depression and no evidence for the prevention of depression. Nonetheless, fish oils are good for the heart, have no demonstrated adverse effects when taken in reasonable dosages, and could potentially be beneficial for mood. Although patients should be discouraged from taking fish oils as a substitute for antidepressants or mood stabilizers, if they wish to take fish oils as an adjunct to those treatments, they should be aware of the tentative nature of the evidence for a beneficial effect on mood and inform themselves about possible contaminants.
posted by fourcheesemac at 8:45 AM on July 29, 2009 [3 favorites]
I've taken fish oil for depression and am actually about to put myself back on it. I took about 5 - 6000 mg a day, which is usually about 5 capsules. I never had any side effects from it; that's the dosage my therapist recommended. Here's the deal though, at least for me, it doesn't work if I'm already deep into real depression. It only works if I'm sort of not all that depressed or feel like I might be sliding that way a bit. What works when I'm really depressed is Lexapro, but it is a) expensive and b) screws with my memory and c) eventually I just get tired of taking it. For all these reasons I am currently off Lexapro after 9 months of consistent use, doing pretty much fine but upping my exercise and sunshine and planning to get back on the fish oil pronto. In other words I use fish oil as a preventative and Lexapro as a cure and that seems to work best for me.
posted by mygothlaundry at 8:52 AM on July 29, 2009
posted by mygothlaundry at 8:52 AM on July 29, 2009
Fish oil is definitely not equal to prescription meds, that is the good and bad news.
The amount of fish oil research suggests you need for depression is not insignificant (in the order of several grams of actual EPA/DHA). How much you'll actually need will depend on your weight, but you probably want a roughly 3:2 ratio of EPA/DHA, since that is pretty close to what's found in nature. See my post here for some product recommendations and study links.
Side effects that can occur: Gastrointestinal problems(stomach upset, diarrhea), especially at high doses. Ramp up slowly so your body can get used to it, and use the highest quality you can find/afford. It is ultimately an OIL and your intestines will treat it as such! You can also get "fish burps" from the capsules; this can be avoided by freezing them. Also, high doses of fish oil can thin your blood; your doctor will recommend you quit it several weeks before any elective surgery. Common sense says you should use caution if you are taking any other blood-thinning medications such as aspirin.
Vitamin A should not be a concern UNLESS the label lists Cod Liver Oil, or perhaps are using an unreputable brand. In America the good brands will list its vitamin content, be labeled "Pharmaceutical Grade", and ideally be able to provide you with analysis data of their final product. Purity is important but it is CRITICAL if you are pregnant or planning to become pregnant. Also be aware oil can go rancid so keep an eye out for any changes.
High doses can also cause an uncomfortable lightening of your wallet.
It is possible you are responding this quickly but usually it takes several weeks to months for omega-3's to really make a difference in brain chemistry.
All this being said I have absolutely seen results from fish oil, especially combined with other healthy things like eating right and a freakin' lot of cardio. I look at as a very important piece of the puzzle rather than the magic cure.
posted by for_serious at 8:55 AM on July 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
The amount of fish oil research suggests you need for depression is not insignificant (in the order of several grams of actual EPA/DHA). How much you'll actually need will depend on your weight, but you probably want a roughly 3:2 ratio of EPA/DHA, since that is pretty close to what's found in nature. See my post here for some product recommendations and study links.
Side effects that can occur: Gastrointestinal problems(stomach upset, diarrhea), especially at high doses. Ramp up slowly so your body can get used to it, and use the highest quality you can find/afford. It is ultimately an OIL and your intestines will treat it as such! You can also get "fish burps" from the capsules; this can be avoided by freezing them. Also, high doses of fish oil can thin your blood; your doctor will recommend you quit it several weeks before any elective surgery. Common sense says you should use caution if you are taking any other blood-thinning medications such as aspirin.
Vitamin A should not be a concern UNLESS the label lists Cod Liver Oil, or perhaps are using an unreputable brand. In America the good brands will list its vitamin content, be labeled "Pharmaceutical Grade", and ideally be able to provide you with analysis data of their final product. Purity is important but it is CRITICAL if you are pregnant or planning to become pregnant. Also be aware oil can go rancid so keep an eye out for any changes.
High doses can also cause an uncomfortable lightening of your wallet.
It is possible you are responding this quickly but usually it takes several weeks to months for omega-3's to really make a difference in brain chemistry.
All this being said I have absolutely seen results from fish oil, especially combined with other healthy things like eating right and a freakin' lot of cardio. I look at as a very important piece of the puzzle rather than the magic cure.
posted by for_serious at 8:55 AM on July 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
and anyone who tells you the science clearly indicates fish oil can mimic pharmaceutical antidepressant effects probably has an ideological or financial stake in that claim.
Just fwiw, the same could be said about people who say: If you are depressed, you need actual medication
Back to the actual question that was asked:
You're right to be concerned about overdosing on supplements if you don't know exactly what's in them (and in what quantities). Have you considered changing products to one that gives more precise information on the contents?
posted by missmagenta at 9:00 AM on July 29, 2009
Just fwiw, the same could be said about people who say: If you are depressed, you need actual medication
Back to the actual question that was asked:
You're right to be concerned about overdosing on supplements if you don't know exactly what's in them (and in what quantities). Have you considered changing products to one that gives more precise information on the contents?
posted by missmagenta at 9:00 AM on July 29, 2009
I've just put myself on a combination of SAM-e and fish oil to combat depression (and to raise my HDL). Have you considered taking something besides the fish oil - like HTP-5, SAMe or St John's Wort?
posted by elsietheeel at 9:02 AM on July 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by elsietheeel at 9:02 AM on July 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
Just fwiw, the same could be said about people who say: If you are depressed, you need actual medication
The two claims aren't comparable. "Need" is a subjective verb in this instance. The clinical studies showing SSRIs have a measurable effect above placebo for unipolar depression in most adults are legion. They also have side effects that can be serious. There are also other proven approaches, through therapy, exercise, and non-SSRI medications. Depression is not like an infection with a particular pathogen. Indeed, there's good reason to give the placebo effect a good deal of credit in depression treatment. There is solid proof that SSRI antidepressants work for a lot of depressed people to alleviate the symptoms of the condition; there is no such "solid proof" for fish oil or any other supplement. There's suggestive evidence of a marginal effect, plenty of anecdotal testimony (in both directions), a posited mechanism of action, and little downside risk to experimenting with fish oils in moderate doses.
I know people whose lives have been saved by pharmaceutical anti-depressants; I can't say I've ever met anyone who claimed the same for fish oil.
posted by fourcheesemac at 9:13 AM on July 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
The two claims aren't comparable. "Need" is a subjective verb in this instance. The clinical studies showing SSRIs have a measurable effect above placebo for unipolar depression in most adults are legion. They also have side effects that can be serious. There are also other proven approaches, through therapy, exercise, and non-SSRI medications. Depression is not like an infection with a particular pathogen. Indeed, there's good reason to give the placebo effect a good deal of credit in depression treatment. There is solid proof that SSRI antidepressants work for a lot of depressed people to alleviate the symptoms of the condition; there is no such "solid proof" for fish oil or any other supplement. There's suggestive evidence of a marginal effect, plenty of anecdotal testimony (in both directions), a posited mechanism of action, and little downside risk to experimenting with fish oils in moderate doses.
I know people whose lives have been saved by pharmaceutical anti-depressants; I can't say I've ever met anyone who claimed the same for fish oil.
posted by fourcheesemac at 9:13 AM on July 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
missmagenta - I don't disagree, but depression is a serious medical condition. Some forms of diabetes can be managed through diet alone, some need insulin. Mental health isn't dissimilar, we just know less about what it is and how to treat it. I speak as someone who had unmedicated bipolar disorder for a long time and whose life has been significantly changed with medication (though god knows the side effects are indeed nasty).
Please make sure with St Johns Wort that you can take it - it will render the contraceptive pill less effective. Exercise is also a good idea. Have you also tried increasing the amount of oily fish in your diet too?
posted by mippy at 9:27 AM on July 29, 2009
Please make sure with St Johns Wort that you can take it - it will render the contraceptive pill less effective. Exercise is also a good idea. Have you also tried increasing the amount of oily fish in your diet too?
posted by mippy at 9:27 AM on July 29, 2009
i can't answer your question about ODing, but i CAN tell you that they probably aren't going to cure clinical depression.
as a side note to this -- if you had scary side effects to your meds before (you don't say what they are, so i might be WAY off target) it is possible that you aren't actually depressed, but are bipolar instead...
posted by unlucky.lisp at 9:28 AM on July 29, 2009
as a side note to this -- if you had scary side effects to your meds before (you don't say what they are, so i might be WAY off target) it is possible that you aren't actually depressed, but are bipolar instead...
posted by unlucky.lisp at 9:28 AM on July 29, 2009
missmagenta - I don't disagree, but depression is a serious medical condition
I don't disagree with that, nor do I disagree that anti-depressants can be helpful (and indeed lifesaving) for some people but that's a long way from telling everyone with depression that they need medication.
The OP didn't ask for our opinions on fish oil vs SSRIs or natural vs pharmaceutical treatment of depression, they asked a specific question about the risks of OD.
posted by missmagenta at 9:33 AM on July 29, 2009
I don't disagree with that, nor do I disagree that anti-depressants can be helpful (and indeed lifesaving) for some people but that's a long way from telling everyone with depression that they need medication.
The OP didn't ask for our opinions on fish oil vs SSRIs or natural vs pharmaceutical treatment of depression, they asked a specific question about the risks of OD.
posted by missmagenta at 9:33 AM on July 29, 2009
It sounds like a great plan for falling further into depression.
Go back the shrink and keep trying meds until you find one that works.
It takes time and consistency to beat depression, not hocus-pocus pseudo science.
posted by wfrgms at 9:53 AM on July 29, 2009
Go back the shrink and keep trying meds until you find one that works.
It takes time and consistency to beat depression, not hocus-pocus pseudo science.
posted by wfrgms at 9:53 AM on July 29, 2009
Chris Masterjohn has written about vitamin A toxicity here. If you're still concerned carlson makes a low vitamin a cod liver product.
posted by zentrification at 9:58 AM on July 29, 2009
posted by zentrification at 9:58 AM on July 29, 2009
missmagenta - the OP seemed to be saying that this had been a severe, persistent problem, which is why I suggested trying out something else. My job involves verifying advertising claims and we have never allowed manufacturers of fish oil products to claim any benefits connected to the brain.
But this isn't what the thread is about. i used to take Equazen which suggested taking six a day to start off with, to build up the protein chains in the system. So if you're taking three a day, you should be fine.
posted by mippy at 10:10 AM on July 29, 2009
But this isn't what the thread is about. i used to take Equazen which suggested taking six a day to start off with, to build up the protein chains in the system. So if you're taking three a day, you should be fine.
posted by mippy at 10:10 AM on July 29, 2009
totally anecdotal but I find that fish oil does seem to lift my mood. (I also take ashwaganda, rhodiola, and B complex)
posted by jockc at 10:14 AM on July 29, 2009
posted by jockc at 10:14 AM on July 29, 2009
I decided to try this stuff, based on their claims that they've done appropriate testing to prove that their particular fish oil supplement actually makes a difference:
minami PlusEpa study
The study also appeared to show that an anti-depressant plus the fish oil had even better results. Seems to be in line with what people are generally thinking.
Pricey, though.
posted by bitterkitten at 10:31 AM on July 29, 2009
minami PlusEpa study
The study also appeared to show that an anti-depressant plus the fish oil had even better results. Seems to be in line with what people are generally thinking.
Pricey, though.
posted by bitterkitten at 10:31 AM on July 29, 2009
I take l-tryptophan to help me sleep and I noticed it has some mood altering and relaxing qualities during the day that I didnt notice with fish oil, which I also take for heart health. YMMV, but
posted by damn dirty ape at 11:22 AM on July 29, 2009
posted by damn dirty ape at 11:22 AM on July 29, 2009
I'm afraid I can't address your particular question, but I can speak to a couple of issues that have come up...
I take fish oil. I didn't notice any initial improvement. I think it helped a bit after about six weeks, but there were other variables involved, so I am by no means sure. My doc says it works best as an augmenter; used as an adjunct to other medicines, it can help those medicines work better. He also says it takes awhile to work. So you may need to just wait it out, as opposed to continually increasing the dosage.
I've never really understood why some people prefer natural remedies but, since you seem to be edging in that direction, you might try Lithium. It's a purely natural substance that has been shown to help depression when given in small doses. But don't go for the stuff you get over the counter at the natural food stores- you can't be sure of consistency of dosage (which is very important) and there will be a bunch of other fillers in there that might affect you badly. Go to the doctor for this one.
posted by kdk at 9:05 PM on July 29, 2009
I take fish oil. I didn't notice any initial improvement. I think it helped a bit after about six weeks, but there were other variables involved, so I am by no means sure. My doc says it works best as an augmenter; used as an adjunct to other medicines, it can help those medicines work better. He also says it takes awhile to work. So you may need to just wait it out, as opposed to continually increasing the dosage.
I've never really understood why some people prefer natural remedies but, since you seem to be edging in that direction, you might try Lithium. It's a purely natural substance that has been shown to help depression when given in small doses. But don't go for the stuff you get over the counter at the natural food stores- you can't be sure of consistency of dosage (which is very important) and there will be a bunch of other fillers in there that might affect you badly. Go to the doctor for this one.
posted by kdk at 9:05 PM on July 29, 2009
"It's a purely natural substance that has been shown to help depression when given in small doses. ".
If I see the words purely natural substance one more time I'll vomit:
Natural Substances
Lithium is demonstrably toxic to people: it was banned in the 1940s because of this. Lithium carbonate is found in nature, but SO WHAT.
Please, naturopaths, has it ever occurred that you spreading this kind of bullshit is actually leading to the death and injury of people.
Molecules are molecules are molecules. Anyone that says or implies 'something is found in nature so it must be good' should be immediately discounted for any kind of advice on anything medical at all.
Show me some data from double-blinded, correctly controlled, independent, repeated trials for either a 'natural' or 'artificial' remedy or STFU.
posted by lalochezia at 9:43 PM on July 29, 2009 [3 favorites]
If I see the words purely natural substance one more time I'll vomit:
Natural Substances
Lithium is demonstrably toxic to people: it was banned in the 1940s because of this. Lithium carbonate is found in nature, but SO WHAT.
Please, naturopaths, has it ever occurred that you spreading this kind of bullshit is actually leading to the death and injury of people.
Molecules are molecules are molecules. Anyone that says or implies 'something is found in nature so it must be good' should be immediately discounted for any kind of advice on anything medical at all.
Show me some data from double-blinded, correctly controlled, independent, repeated trials for either a 'natural' or 'artificial' remedy or STFU.
posted by lalochezia at 9:43 PM on July 29, 2009 [3 favorites]
I just realized that no one has mentioned that there are NON-SSRI pharmaceutical anti-depressants. If your sole reason for rejecting AD therapy under medical supervision is that SSRIs didn't agree with you, ask your doctor whether something like Welbutrin (buproprion) might be helpful. It has none of the side effects usually associated with SSRIs (although it has its own, much less severe or common, however, in my experience). It's not the only such choice.
Most of the advice here -- or that you'll get anywhere -- is well meaning: people want you not to be depressed, and not to chase pointless rainbows when you could be getting better treatment. This subject is so clouded by ideology and ignorance, and the "science" on it is so inconclusive and murky. There are people who swear St John's Wort prevented them from suicide; there are studies that say it has practically no biochemical effect on the relevant neurotransmitters. Same for any of the natural remedies. Just so, there are documented cases of SSRI's appearing to *cause* suicidal ideation and action, as well as reams of clinical evidence that for many if not most patients they are a veritable godsend. As I said above, "depression" is not like an infection with, say, staph. aureus, where there is one magic bullet that can definitively target the one particular pathogen causing your "illness" (or "disease" or "syndrome"). At the simplest level, "depression" is a spectrum disorder, and a symptom of many other disorders and diseases. It is not possible even to definitively diagnose "depression" -- there's no lab test that comes back plus or minus for it, no way of knowing if it's "cured." So even the best medical care for depression is experimental, or empirical, for any given case being treated. And only the patient can really say what "works" for her/him.
The important things are a) to have a competent doctor who cares about you supervising the empirical work if the depression is serious and/or you plan to try unproven or potentially dangerous therapies and b) to know what risks you take pursuing any particular therapeutic course, or *not* pursuing the standard of care if you decide to abandon it.
AskMe is not going to substitute for a good clinician if you are seriously depressed. Nor for a good psychopharmacologist if you plan to experiment with "alternative" remedies (or legitimately approved drugs, for that matter, and obviously).
It's better, in my view, if we don't have the same old science vs. pseudoscience, conventional vs. alternative, etc. arguments every time this subject comes up here. Most of us have pretty hardened positions on these matters. I spent a number of years seriously investigating alternative and naturopathic medicine when I was sick with an illness that was frustratingly refractory to conventional treatment, and I came to the conclusion that the alt-med world of that time (mid-90s) was so full of quackery, bullshit-artisry, pseudo-science, and outright venality that almost none of it could be trusted. I still hold that view, but I do know of exceptions and have found alternative treatments that have been marginally effective in limited ways. Others have had such bad experiences with mainstream/scientific medicine that they are hardened the other way (eventually, it was a real doctor using real science who cured me of my illness, by the way, so despite being angry at the mainstream system for taking so long, I wound up grateful that it existed).
Just be careful, don't go it alone, don't believe everything you read on the internet, and find a properly trained professional to check in with before you start playing around with your own biochemistry. Simple.
posted by fourcheesemac at 4:24 AM on July 30, 2009
Most of the advice here -- or that you'll get anywhere -- is well meaning: people want you not to be depressed, and not to chase pointless rainbows when you could be getting better treatment. This subject is so clouded by ideology and ignorance, and the "science" on it is so inconclusive and murky. There are people who swear St John's Wort prevented them from suicide; there are studies that say it has practically no biochemical effect on the relevant neurotransmitters. Same for any of the natural remedies. Just so, there are documented cases of SSRI's appearing to *cause* suicidal ideation and action, as well as reams of clinical evidence that for many if not most patients they are a veritable godsend. As I said above, "depression" is not like an infection with, say, staph. aureus, where there is one magic bullet that can definitively target the one particular pathogen causing your "illness" (or "disease" or "syndrome"). At the simplest level, "depression" is a spectrum disorder, and a symptom of many other disorders and diseases. It is not possible even to definitively diagnose "depression" -- there's no lab test that comes back plus or minus for it, no way of knowing if it's "cured." So even the best medical care for depression is experimental, or empirical, for any given case being treated. And only the patient can really say what "works" for her/him.
The important things are a) to have a competent doctor who cares about you supervising the empirical work if the depression is serious and/or you plan to try unproven or potentially dangerous therapies and b) to know what risks you take pursuing any particular therapeutic course, or *not* pursuing the standard of care if you decide to abandon it.
AskMe is not going to substitute for a good clinician if you are seriously depressed. Nor for a good psychopharmacologist if you plan to experiment with "alternative" remedies (or legitimately approved drugs, for that matter, and obviously).
It's better, in my view, if we don't have the same old science vs. pseudoscience, conventional vs. alternative, etc. arguments every time this subject comes up here. Most of us have pretty hardened positions on these matters. I spent a number of years seriously investigating alternative and naturopathic medicine when I was sick with an illness that was frustratingly refractory to conventional treatment, and I came to the conclusion that the alt-med world of that time (mid-90s) was so full of quackery, bullshit-artisry, pseudo-science, and outright venality that almost none of it could be trusted. I still hold that view, but I do know of exceptions and have found alternative treatments that have been marginally effective in limited ways. Others have had such bad experiences with mainstream/scientific medicine that they are hardened the other way (eventually, it was a real doctor using real science who cured me of my illness, by the way, so despite being angry at the mainstream system for taking so long, I wound up grateful that it existed).
Just be careful, don't go it alone, don't believe everything you read on the internet, and find a properly trained professional to check in with before you start playing around with your own biochemistry. Simple.
posted by fourcheesemac at 4:24 AM on July 30, 2009
lalochezia, calm down and read more closely. I'm not a naturalpath, and I did not endorse it in any way. (In fact, I expressed my own bemusement at the inherent attitude.) I was simply noting that, since the poster seemed to be edging in that direction, that doesn't mean he should eschew seeking doctor's assistance. And yes, Lithium is toxic in extremely high doses- but so are a lot of things, like bacon- but perfectly safe at the levels doctors use for depression.
posted by kdk at 10:01 AM on July 30, 2009
posted by kdk at 10:01 AM on July 30, 2009
I've been taking fish oil for several years now and have proven to myself repeatedly (by running out and not getting around to buying more for too long) that it absolutely makes a difference for me. After years of being on the maximum dosage of Wellbutrin SR, my doctor and I decreased it by half several months ago. So far it's working well; I find I do better on 150 mg of the Wellbutrin plus fish oil plus an iron supplement than I did on 300 mg without the fish oil and iron. (I've also reproven the necessity of the iron multiple times. For some reason, I seem to be a slow learner in this regard. "Oh, it won't matter if I run out and can't get more until next week..." Oh yes it will! Lack of iron = bone-deep fatigue that my brain interprets as depression-caused lack of energy = quick slide into despair.)
for_serious's advice is good, based on what I've read and my own experience. I stepped up gradually until I reached a dosage that seemed to make a difference. For me, that's 4 grams of EPA+DHA a day, divided into two doses.
When I'm not taking it + the iron, I slide into suicidal thoughts way too easily.
Do bear in mind that not all antidepressants are the same. Prozac didn't work for me and killed my libido, the one after that (I forget the name) made me hostile and irritable, but the Wellbutrin has been effective for years now.
Also, I highly recommend The Depression Book by Cheri Huber. I firmly believe I would have tried to kill myself by now if I hadn't come across it about five years ago.
(Background: diagnosed at 17 after years of showing signs, have spent more than half my life struggling with this damn disease including several years of wanting to kill myself, currently feeling better than I remember ever feeling, still dealing with depression to some degree every single day.)
posted by Lexica at 9:37 PM on July 30, 2009
for_serious's advice is good, based on what I've read and my own experience. I stepped up gradually until I reached a dosage that seemed to make a difference. For me, that's 4 grams of EPA+DHA a day, divided into two doses.
When I'm not taking it + the iron, I slide into suicidal thoughts way too easily.
Do bear in mind that not all antidepressants are the same. Prozac didn't work for me and killed my libido, the one after that (I forget the name) made me hostile and irritable, but the Wellbutrin has been effective for years now.
Also, I highly recommend The Depression Book by Cheri Huber. I firmly believe I would have tried to kill myself by now if I hadn't come across it about five years ago.
(Background: diagnosed at 17 after years of showing signs, have spent more than half my life struggling with this damn disease including several years of wanting to kill myself, currently feeling better than I remember ever feeling, still dealing with depression to some degree every single day.)
posted by Lexica at 9:37 PM on July 30, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
If you find it helps - I've found they do aid my memory, even if some would have you believe this is a placebo effect - then do keep taking them, but please don't think they'll do the job that medication is there to do.
posted by mippy at 8:05 AM on July 29, 2009 [1 favorite]