Friendship vs Attraction
December 12, 2004 2:32 AM Subscribe
How does one best handle attraction to friends of the appropriate sex, in rather complex situations? (vastly more inside)
First of all, I met said friend during what is highly likely to be the worst period in my life (crushing depression). There were numerous, horrific fuck-ups ultimately resulting in a half year or so of imposed separation (due to my insanity).
Following extensive medication and therapy, things are looking peachy. Aforementioned friend and I are as close as ever -- however, the true extent of my feelings for this friend are best described as novel, in that there has never been anyone I have felt as deeply for.
I have expressed my feelings before, under dubious mental states, and been soundly rebuffed. But I think everyone would recognize the difference between then and now, and my general feelings have not changed. She is dating some one at the moment, but has told me it is not serious.
I suspect that despite being a very, very good friend, I lack some subtle qualifications that make me attractive to her. The obvious ones I have made tremendous progress towards correcting. Correspondingly, things seem more vague now.
Should I say something? Or wait for her to make the first move? Or be done with her and move on? Or spend the rest of my life waiting for her?
First of all, I met said friend during what is highly likely to be the worst period in my life (crushing depression). There were numerous, horrific fuck-ups ultimately resulting in a half year or so of imposed separation (due to my insanity).
Following extensive medication and therapy, things are looking peachy. Aforementioned friend and I are as close as ever -- however, the true extent of my feelings for this friend are best described as novel, in that there has never been anyone I have felt as deeply for.
I have expressed my feelings before, under dubious mental states, and been soundly rebuffed. But I think everyone would recognize the difference between then and now, and my general feelings have not changed. She is dating some one at the moment, but has told me it is not serious.
I suspect that despite being a very, very good friend, I lack some subtle qualifications that make me attractive to her. The obvious ones I have made tremendous progress towards correcting. Correspondingly, things seem more vague now.
Should I say something? Or wait for her to make the first move? Or be done with her and move on? Or spend the rest of my life waiting for her?
There are some really tough things about the situation:
Showing that you're needy (that you want her more than she wants you) MAY be initially flattering, but it's ultimately a turn off (for many people).
Passive-aggression is also a turn off. You might find yourself acting passive-aggressively if you reveal your feelings to her and she rejects you. Often, people in your situation don't accept the rejection and keep prodding -- or they get angry and try to make the rejecting person suffer. This is a turn off. It's too bad, because the object-of-desire might, in time, change her feelings, but prodding and passive-aggression are the seals of doom. Still, they are difficult behaviors to curb.
Even if you take her rejection well, she may feel guilty about rejecting you. Sure, it's not her fault if she doesn't want you as a lover, but that rationalization might not work for her. She might still feel guilty and associate hanging around you with negative feelings. No one wants to feel guilty all the time. This could hurt your friendship with her.
It also may be impossible for you to continue being friends without without revealing your feelings. I don't think the problems will start AFTER you reveal them. I think they have already started.
Though it may sound like it, I'm not urging you to stay away from her. I'm just trying to be clear about some of the problems you might face if you reveal your feelings to her. All of this is from personal experience.
If you think you can continue to be her friend -- and I mean JUST her friend, without any manipulation -- regardless of how she responds, by all means go for it (and I will be impressed by your maturity!)
You might want (or need) to go for it anyway. Just be aware that in most of these cases, the relationship is altered after such a revelation. Sometimes (often?) it's altered in a negative way.
Now, if you do tell her how you feel and she rejects you and the friendship suffers, it need not be over forever. You will probably need time apart. But if you give her (and yourself) some space, and after some time you realize that you still want to be her friend, contact her again (but make sure that when you contact her, you're totally ready to commit to just being friends.)
I too wish you luck with this very difficult, very human experience.
posted by grumblebee at 5:31 AM on December 12, 2004 [1 favorite]
Showing that you're needy (that you want her more than she wants you) MAY be initially flattering, but it's ultimately a turn off (for many people).
Passive-aggression is also a turn off. You might find yourself acting passive-aggressively if you reveal your feelings to her and she rejects you. Often, people in your situation don't accept the rejection and keep prodding -- or they get angry and try to make the rejecting person suffer. This is a turn off. It's too bad, because the object-of-desire might, in time, change her feelings, but prodding and passive-aggression are the seals of doom. Still, they are difficult behaviors to curb.
Even if you take her rejection well, she may feel guilty about rejecting you. Sure, it's not her fault if she doesn't want you as a lover, but that rationalization might not work for her. She might still feel guilty and associate hanging around you with negative feelings. No one wants to feel guilty all the time. This could hurt your friendship with her.
It also may be impossible for you to continue being friends without without revealing your feelings. I don't think the problems will start AFTER you reveal them. I think they have already started.
Though it may sound like it, I'm not urging you to stay away from her. I'm just trying to be clear about some of the problems you might face if you reveal your feelings to her. All of this is from personal experience.
If you think you can continue to be her friend -- and I mean JUST her friend, without any manipulation -- regardless of how she responds, by all means go for it (and I will be impressed by your maturity!)
You might want (or need) to go for it anyway. Just be aware that in most of these cases, the relationship is altered after such a revelation. Sometimes (often?) it's altered in a negative way.
Now, if you do tell her how you feel and she rejects you and the friendship suffers, it need not be over forever. You will probably need time apart. But if you give her (and yourself) some space, and after some time you realize that you still want to be her friend, contact her again (but make sure that when you contact her, you're totally ready to commit to just being friends.)
I too wish you luck with this very difficult, very human experience.
posted by grumblebee at 5:31 AM on December 12, 2004 [1 favorite]
Oh man, I'm the queen of unrequited crushes. And I have no help for you, because I've never even gotten the courage to declare myself in the several times I've been in the situation. All I can add is that she's friends with you, so there must be lots of stuff about you that she likes. Try to figure out exactly what those things are and also try to see what it might be about you that could turn her off. Do more of the former and try to mitigate the latter. I feel for you. Good luck.
posted by CunningLinguist at 5:53 AM on December 12, 2004
posted by CunningLinguist at 5:53 AM on December 12, 2004
It sounds like you're aware of the fact that what makes her not attracted to you could be something you have no control over (i.e. something you can't change). While it's definitely true that feelings can change, for some people, that chemical attraction is either there or it's not, and it's not necessarily based on anything you can even define, let alone change.
I'm not trying to discourage you, and if you feel that strongly about her, then you're better to ask her about it again than always wonder, but I do think you need to be prepared for the fact that her earlier lack of interest wasn't 100% related to the problems you were having at the time, and that you might end up having to resign yourself to a friends-only relationship with her and looking for love elsewhere. You also need to consider the effect this will have on your friendship, and weigh those risks against the likelihood that this will end up the way you'd like it to. Whatever you do, don't keep pushing, if you broach the subject and she is still not interested, then consider it done and move on - she'll know how you feel if the way she feels ever changes, and continuing to ask about it will just alienate her. Good luck.
posted by biscotti at 8:04 AM on December 12, 2004
I'm not trying to discourage you, and if you feel that strongly about her, then you're better to ask her about it again than always wonder, but I do think you need to be prepared for the fact that her earlier lack of interest wasn't 100% related to the problems you were having at the time, and that you might end up having to resign yourself to a friends-only relationship with her and looking for love elsewhere. You also need to consider the effect this will have on your friendship, and weigh those risks against the likelihood that this will end up the way you'd like it to. Whatever you do, don't keep pushing, if you broach the subject and she is still not interested, then consider it done and move on - she'll know how you feel if the way she feels ever changes, and continuing to ask about it will just alienate her. Good luck.
posted by biscotti at 8:04 AM on December 12, 2004
Tell her you really appreciate her sticking by you during your trying times. Tell her that you will always have deep feelings for he because of this, and for other reasons. Tell her that now that you've got your head together that you thought you'd give it another try, but that you understand if it's not reciprocated and that in that case, this is the last she'll ever hear about it. Assure her that you will not ever let it affect your friendship regardless of what she chooses. How she feels about it I cannot predict, of course, but I think it's your best chance.
Once you have got this off your chest you may find the unrequited crush dissipating and discover that you can in fact accept a deep but platonic relationship. But you have to mean it. If you can't mean it, then wait until you can. Or else transfer your crush to someone else more available.
I have been in this situation. A woman I was quite crushing on (and who clearly liked me in return) ended up marrying someone else. I didn't need to make any speech, thank God; she already knew how she felt and she had obviously not chosen me. But she is still one of my best friends. Actually, we're better friends now than ever. I still love her, although in a different way, and I'd still do anything for her, but the romantic aspect has been subsumed into the friendship, which now includes her husband. It is fulfilling in a way that I couldn't have previously imagined and is by no means "second best."
posted by kindall at 10:27 AM on December 12, 2004
Once you have got this off your chest you may find the unrequited crush dissipating and discover that you can in fact accept a deep but platonic relationship. But you have to mean it. If you can't mean it, then wait until you can. Or else transfer your crush to someone else more available.
I have been in this situation. A woman I was quite crushing on (and who clearly liked me in return) ended up marrying someone else. I didn't need to make any speech, thank God; she already knew how she felt and she had obviously not chosen me. But she is still one of my best friends. Actually, we're better friends now than ever. I still love her, although in a different way, and I'd still do anything for her, but the romantic aspect has been subsumed into the friendship, which now includes her husband. It is fulfilling in a way that I couldn't have previously imagined and is by no means "second best."
posted by kindall at 10:27 AM on December 12, 2004
It sounds to me like you're romanticizing her dangerously. She didn't want to date you before, and unless something extremely unlikely has caused to become attracted to you, she probably still just thinks of you as a friend. You will be a better person if you find a new person to crush on.
posted by painquale at 1:38 PM on December 12, 2004
posted by painquale at 1:38 PM on December 12, 2004
I was in the same exact situation early this year, and I'm still getting over it. Now that you think you're at a much stable place in your life, you can approach her like a sane, would-be suitor, but be prepared for rejection. She probably doesn't like you that way, and as painful as that is to hear, you have to start dealing with it before you become her crazy stalker ex-friend. As far as my situation, I've put the friendship on hold, and I have no idea whether or not she and I will ever be friends again. Space and distance is helping me through, as well as trying to be as social as I can to fill the void the person has left. Good luck, and let us know what happens.
posted by lychee at 5:43 PM on December 12, 2004
posted by lychee at 5:43 PM on December 12, 2004
Can I suggest the traditional approach? Invite her out for dinner. Keep the conversation light and friendly. Escort her home. Kiss her at the door and go home. Repeat.
posted by mono blanco at 9:12 PM on December 12, 2004
posted by mono blanco at 9:12 PM on December 12, 2004
This is not going to work out for you. I'm sorry, but it just won't. You've addressed it before, and been rebuffed. If she were interested in you now, you'd know about it. She knows you're interested, so if she were interested it would come up. Don't wait for her -- she's your friend, and she won't be anything more.
It sucks, I know. Believe me, I know. But ultimately you have to decide what's more important -- your friendship with her, or the tiny tiny tiny chance that you'll somehow change her mind. You have to move on; if you keep thinking about this it is going to turn into an obsession, and you'll lose her friendship.
posted by aramaic at 9:25 PM on December 12, 2004
It sucks, I know. Believe me, I know. But ultimately you have to decide what's more important -- your friendship with her, or the tiny tiny tiny chance that you'll somehow change her mind. You have to move on; if you keep thinking about this it is going to turn into an obsession, and you'll lose her friendship.
posted by aramaic at 9:25 PM on December 12, 2004
yeah, the basic attraction or not component is usually non-negotiable & it's pretty rare for there not to be at least some level of mixed signals/tension going on even if she was sure she didn't want to be involved due to mental issues. If you were 'soundly rebuffed' I would bet your depression wasn't the only cause.
In cases where these things do change, usually what changes is priorities - sometimes someone will decide they'd rather be with a great person who worships them, and who they love but are not attracted to, than with no one at all. When the pursuit works, this is generally the form it will take, which definitely has its drawbacks, among them the possibility that she meets someone else & leaves you.
posted by mdn at 8:56 AM on December 13, 2004
In cases where these things do change, usually what changes is priorities - sometimes someone will decide they'd rather be with a great person who worships them, and who they love but are not attracted to, than with no one at all. When the pursuit works, this is generally the form it will take, which definitely has its drawbacks, among them the possibility that she meets someone else & leaves you.
posted by mdn at 8:56 AM on December 13, 2004
Response by poster: Have you ever had some idea, that you knew wasn't really real -- or at least not quite the same in your head as it was in the world, but it still felt like it had something profound? Something imagined that still had something concrete? This isn't something that paralyzes me; it is simply there. At times, the trivia of my life drag me down, and I find myself seeking solace in something I've begun to feel has weight. I am not a hopeless romantic: something real, something of worth, has both joy and sorrow.
I am susceptible to the odd bout of self-loathing, but I am not a fool. I hope I don't offend those who offered kind comments -- I appreciated them very much, but clearly my question had a rhetorical air. I knew the answer to my question before I asked it. I apologize to any I might have upset, but I came seeking comfort in hearing some real person telling me what I already knew. Maybe it sounds strange, but there is something powerful about it.
However, the real reason for my follow-up is that there appears to have been a bit of misunderstanding. To be fair, my initial post was inappropriately melodramatic, but she is one of my closest friends, and I am one of hers. We are fairly integral parts of each others lives already. We are both clearly in this thing for the long haul. This is not some acquaintance I pester, and I am not some ego-boost for her.
And by unattractive/rebuffed, I mean she clearly knew I was in a bad place at the time, and it was terribly unattractive: I was needy, bitter, desperate, shy; I lacked self-confidence, affect, style, etc. Maybe she honestly never wants anything more than friendship, but there has always been affection, flirtation, tension, and that uncertain hesitation.
My impression is that she is unsure, and hesitant, and a bit wary of that path for our relationship (and who would blame her), but I think she sees the potential, too.
posted by justin at 3:15 AM on December 21, 2004
I am susceptible to the odd bout of self-loathing, but I am not a fool. I hope I don't offend those who offered kind comments -- I appreciated them very much, but clearly my question had a rhetorical air. I knew the answer to my question before I asked it. I apologize to any I might have upset, but I came seeking comfort in hearing some real person telling me what I already knew. Maybe it sounds strange, but there is something powerful about it.
However, the real reason for my follow-up is that there appears to have been a bit of misunderstanding. To be fair, my initial post was inappropriately melodramatic, but she is one of my closest friends, and I am one of hers. We are fairly integral parts of each others lives already. We are both clearly in this thing for the long haul. This is not some acquaintance I pester, and I am not some ego-boost for her.
And by unattractive/rebuffed, I mean she clearly knew I was in a bad place at the time, and it was terribly unattractive: I was needy, bitter, desperate, shy; I lacked self-confidence, affect, style, etc. Maybe she honestly never wants anything more than friendship, but there has always been affection, flirtation, tension, and that uncertain hesitation.
My impression is that she is unsure, and hesitant, and a bit wary of that path for our relationship (and who would blame her), but I think she sees the potential, too.
posted by justin at 3:15 AM on December 21, 2004
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Pick your time, tell her you think she's wonderful and you'd love to be her partner, and see how she reacts. If she brushes you off (and there's a good chance she will) then let go of the idea of being partners and treasure her as a friend.
You're not the first man in the world to feel soul-deep unrequited love, and you won't be the last. But if you reckon you feel deeply now, just you wait until you find the person who feels the same way about you as you do about them! :-)
Best of luck!
posted by flabdablet at 3:11 AM on December 12, 2004