Family Dynamics
April 5, 2009 3:30 PM Subscribe
How do I relate to my parents (mostly mom) better?
After years of psychological estrangement, despite living under the same roof, I'm finally talking to my parents somewhat normally. That might be because I'm living across the country, I'm enrolled in a graduate program I enjoy, and I'm living on my own, where I can arrange things as I please and not have my parents looking over my shoulder, criticizing every aspect of my life.
The thing is, I don't have a clue how to relate to my parents, particularly my mom. I know (now) that she loves me, but she has a very skewed way of showing that. Her philosophy of raising a child was a literal version of Locke's "every child is a blank slate", so you can imagine the kind of molding that went on, regardless of what I thought or felt, sort of like she can form her ideal child if she tried hard enough, and doing everything she thinks a proper parent should do for her child, but blaming my character or her parenting skills when I can't conform. She's pretty damaged from events in her past but refuses to go into therapy (our family is pretty dysfunctional, which actually everyone acknowledges but my mom). She's very lonely, with a deep mistrust of others, and she has a phobia about money. She also unconsciously gets very jealous and clingy whenever she feels that I'm forming a closer relationship to someone else (whether it's my dad, a best friend, a relative, a pet) than with her, and gets into "you love [said person] more than me" guilt trips, forces me to choose sides, or goes into screaming fits (which she blames me for later on or doesn't acknowledge). They're scary, and contributed a whole lot to my perception of her. But--and this is coming from recent experience--she can also be surprisingly industrious, loyal, humble, resourceful, and sweet. And vulnerable.
Okay. My problem is, she wants a relationship with me--not as mother and child, but as friend to friend. Or rather, she wants to be a mother and a friend to me. She wants to know details about things my cousins or friends have told me, or details about my life that I wouldn't even tell my friends. She just wants to get closer to me (and she's said that many, many times), and I don't. Part of it is that I'm pretty reserved, in general. But also, there's been a lot of times when I've revealed things I care about (people or subjects, causes), and she criticized me on that. For her, family is first, and she can't understand how I can be so committed to a hobby or a subject, or someone that's not family. I suppose part of it is also me trying to do some damage control from the past, and unlearning some of her attitudes and habits that I've picked up over the years. But I think a lot of what she said/did in response to me while growing up has really freaking screwed me up psychologically (in relating to almost anybody; I have a very hard time showing affection for anybody or even revealing how much I care about someone to others, but this isn't a post on blaming the parents) and I want to put some distance between us so I can actually learn how to function normally with people, and I guess develop normal relationships? I really dread the day I get a boyfriend and the detailed grilling starts into how often I'm over at his apartment and whatnot.
She takes my lack of disclosure as evidence that I don't love her. But I don't want her to be my friend. It's hard to gauge her reaction to important things in my life. If I don't talk, she gets very hurt and upset, but if I do talk, I get hurt and upset. I also know that she's trying, by mentioning things that I like, and I'm also getting some flak from family and other people who see my mom being so attentive, and me being cold, but I don't fully trust her. But as I said, I've finally gotten the idea that she probably does love me, after all (after having grown up thinking that her love for me was all about herself and appearances), so I would like to pursue some sort of relationship with her.
I don't say much about my dad because he's just distant. I tell him the broad details of my life, that I'm healthy, safe, and happy, and that seems enough to keep him happy, so I think my relationship with my dad might be okay (though I wish he'd talk more about himself).
The one thing I can think of is to work on being stronger and more secure in my own life and keep up this physical distance for awhile, except for short visits--it's doing some good in the short amount of time I've been away. But phone conversations, and during those short visits--any advice on how to approach this? Or is this a case of just having more patience for how things will eventually unfold? Sorry if there's way more detail here than needed, but I wanted to cover my bases. Thanks.
After years of psychological estrangement, despite living under the same roof, I'm finally talking to my parents somewhat normally. That might be because I'm living across the country, I'm enrolled in a graduate program I enjoy, and I'm living on my own, where I can arrange things as I please and not have my parents looking over my shoulder, criticizing every aspect of my life.
The thing is, I don't have a clue how to relate to my parents, particularly my mom. I know (now) that she loves me, but she has a very skewed way of showing that. Her philosophy of raising a child was a literal version of Locke's "every child is a blank slate", so you can imagine the kind of molding that went on, regardless of what I thought or felt, sort of like she can form her ideal child if she tried hard enough, and doing everything she thinks a proper parent should do for her child, but blaming my character or her parenting skills when I can't conform. She's pretty damaged from events in her past but refuses to go into therapy (our family is pretty dysfunctional, which actually everyone acknowledges but my mom). She's very lonely, with a deep mistrust of others, and she has a phobia about money. She also unconsciously gets very jealous and clingy whenever she feels that I'm forming a closer relationship to someone else (whether it's my dad, a best friend, a relative, a pet) than with her, and gets into "you love [said person] more than me" guilt trips, forces me to choose sides, or goes into screaming fits (which she blames me for later on or doesn't acknowledge). They're scary, and contributed a whole lot to my perception of her. But--and this is coming from recent experience--she can also be surprisingly industrious, loyal, humble, resourceful, and sweet. And vulnerable.
Okay. My problem is, she wants a relationship with me--not as mother and child, but as friend to friend. Or rather, she wants to be a mother and a friend to me. She wants to know details about things my cousins or friends have told me, or details about my life that I wouldn't even tell my friends. She just wants to get closer to me (and she's said that many, many times), and I don't. Part of it is that I'm pretty reserved, in general. But also, there's been a lot of times when I've revealed things I care about (people or subjects, causes), and she criticized me on that. For her, family is first, and she can't understand how I can be so committed to a hobby or a subject, or someone that's not family. I suppose part of it is also me trying to do some damage control from the past, and unlearning some of her attitudes and habits that I've picked up over the years. But I think a lot of what she said/did in response to me while growing up has really freaking screwed me up psychologically (in relating to almost anybody; I have a very hard time showing affection for anybody or even revealing how much I care about someone to others, but this isn't a post on blaming the parents) and I want to put some distance between us so I can actually learn how to function normally with people, and I guess develop normal relationships? I really dread the day I get a boyfriend and the detailed grilling starts into how often I'm over at his apartment and whatnot.
She takes my lack of disclosure as evidence that I don't love her. But I don't want her to be my friend. It's hard to gauge her reaction to important things in my life. If I don't talk, she gets very hurt and upset, but if I do talk, I get hurt and upset. I also know that she's trying, by mentioning things that I like, and I'm also getting some flak from family and other people who see my mom being so attentive, and me being cold, but I don't fully trust her. But as I said, I've finally gotten the idea that she probably does love me, after all (after having grown up thinking that her love for me was all about herself and appearances), so I would like to pursue some sort of relationship with her.
I don't say much about my dad because he's just distant. I tell him the broad details of my life, that I'm healthy, safe, and happy, and that seems enough to keep him happy, so I think my relationship with my dad might be okay (though I wish he'd talk more about himself).
The one thing I can think of is to work on being stronger and more secure in my own life and keep up this physical distance for awhile, except for short visits--it's doing some good in the short amount of time I've been away. But phone conversations, and during those short visits--any advice on how to approach this? Or is this a case of just having more patience for how things will eventually unfold? Sorry if there's way more detail here than needed, but I wanted to cover my bases. Thanks.
Tell her innocuous things about your life. She wants to feel connected and you want to be safe. There is a way to have both.
And if she starts with the "you don't love me " crap just tell her you love her-and you will talk to her later. Then hang up. She will learn right quick to choose her words more wisely.
I am an only child of a mother and a mother to grown children -two of which live at a distance. So I know this works from experience. Heh.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:54 PM on April 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
And if she starts with the "you don't love me " crap just tell her you love her-and you will talk to her later. Then hang up. She will learn right quick to choose her words more wisely.
I am an only child of a mother and a mother to grown children -two of which live at a distance. So I know this works from experience. Heh.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:54 PM on April 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Wow... I must have posted this question anonymously and then forgotten about it :) For your mom, turn the sorts of questions she asks back on her, initialize conversations asking about details in her life; she'll feel that you are closer to her that way. Maybe her poking at you on the subjects you mentioned is done simply to guarantee a response from you?
Instead of answering every detail on your opinion on, say, Al Gore's Nobel Prize (a sore subject between me and my father), give a more general one ("I know a lot of people who find it pretty controversial") to cover yourself and continue on to say "What do you think about X?". It's really awkward the first few times, but her questions may alter a little after some time of being asked about herself; having time to express her opinions might become more interesting than investigating yours. I found a bonus was getting a window into how my dad comes by his opinions and reaches conclusions made it easier to word answers or avoid specific areas that could cause trouble.
Flat out asking your dad "I was wondering what you thought about X" or "I saw a movie last week I remember you mentioning a long time ago and...". Leading into a conversation with something you already know might work- mine was "Did you ever see 'Bridge on the River Kwai' when it came out?". I knew full well he had, but asking if he went with his brothers turned into a story about how his dad (who died before I was born) took him, and led into all these other movies he likes because of an actor who I am ashamed to say I have forgotten the name of.
There are different levels of friendship, and you can be on friendly terms with your mom; try to initiate contact on things you can get along with her on, and emphasize those. Try to put yourself in the question-asking position and your dad might get more accustomed to talking about himself and your mom may feel that she doesn't have to prod as much to hear about you.
posted by variella at 4:05 PM on April 5, 2009
Instead of answering every detail on your opinion on, say, Al Gore's Nobel Prize (a sore subject between me and my father), give a more general one ("I know a lot of people who find it pretty controversial") to cover yourself and continue on to say "What do you think about X?". It's really awkward the first few times, but her questions may alter a little after some time of being asked about herself; having time to express her opinions might become more interesting than investigating yours. I found a bonus was getting a window into how my dad comes by his opinions and reaches conclusions made it easier to word answers or avoid specific areas that could cause trouble.
Flat out asking your dad "I was wondering what you thought about X" or "I saw a movie last week I remember you mentioning a long time ago and...". Leading into a conversation with something you already know might work- mine was "Did you ever see 'Bridge on the River Kwai' when it came out?". I knew full well he had, but asking if he went with his brothers turned into a story about how his dad (who died before I was born) took him, and led into all these other movies he likes because of an actor who I am ashamed to say I have forgotten the name of.
There are different levels of friendship, and you can be on friendly terms with your mom; try to initiate contact on things you can get along with her on, and emphasize those. Try to put yourself in the question-asking position and your dad might get more accustomed to talking about himself and your mom may feel that she doesn't have to prod as much to hear about you.
posted by variella at 4:05 PM on April 5, 2009
This question - which boils down to "how do I set boundaries and stick to them?" - comes up frequently on AskMe. You might want to search for "boundaries" and "parents" and see if any previous suggestions resonate with you. You're already on the right track - work on being stronger and more secure in my own life and keep up this physical distance for awhile - and you just need to stick to your guns.
You can't control your mom but you can control your interactions with her; you'll interact on your terms or not at all. She busts out the crazy, you tell her that's not acceptable (explain why, don't assume she knows she's being crazy) and hang up the phone or leave the house. She'll make a stink but if you're consistent and persistent, she'll eventually get the idea. Flak from her "allies" is probably unavoidable but it's just noise; you can afford to shrug it off.
This article on applying animal training techniques to humans is amusing and insightful. In the article, the human being "trained" was the author's husband, but you could easily use the same approach on parents.
posted by Quietgal at 4:06 PM on April 5, 2009
You can't control your mom but you can control your interactions with her; you'll interact on your terms or not at all. She busts out the crazy, you tell her that's not acceptable (explain why, don't assume she knows she's being crazy) and hang up the phone or leave the house. She'll make a stink but if you're consistent and persistent, she'll eventually get the idea. Flak from her "allies" is probably unavoidable but it's just noise; you can afford to shrug it off.
This article on applying animal training techniques to humans is amusing and insightful. In the article, the human being "trained" was the author's husband, but you could easily use the same approach on parents.
posted by Quietgal at 4:06 PM on April 5, 2009
I'll second the 'you only get one set of parents' statement. Make your actions fall in line with whatever outcomes you can live with.
posted by variella at 4:10 PM on April 5, 2009
posted by variella at 4:10 PM on April 5, 2009
I've been in a similar situation, with the significant difference that everyone in my family has trouble getting along with mom. I think we've mostly just chalked it up to massive immaturity. She tends to perceive "drama" as "mature interaction" for reasons no one has really been able to figure out. And what she thinks of as "closeness" is a lot closer to "co-dependence" than anything else. This was pretty damn hard while each of us tried to work things out with her by ourselves, but a few years back she basically flipped out and everyone got on board with the "Hey, it's not just me" realization. That's helped a lot. People outside the family don't really get the dynamic, but everyone in the family--immediate and extended--basically knows that she's got un-admitted and unresolved issues.
As I write this, it's been going on three years since I've had the kind of intimate conversations I had with her in college and high school. I realize now that these weren't actually healthy, but yeah, things are different. And you know what? My relationship with her has improved drastically. Part of the problem was that she was trying to get all of her social support from her children instead of either 1) my father her husband, or 2) actual friends her age. Once my siblings and I stopped putting up with her bullshit, she had to change her habits, and both she and we are doing much better as a result. She's much, much more supportive, whereas she was previously incredibly critical (she meant well, but meaning well and knowing how to actually do well are different things). She still acts closer to her shoe size than her age, which is a constant low-level source of annoyance, but she's basically gotten the message that her family won't put up with manipulative bullshit anymore.
If she's anything like my mother, this probably isn't something you can talk to her about, because again, if she's like my mother, any criticism is likely to be taken as a massively personal affront. There's just no way to talk through something like that. So you just have to kind of change the way you interact with her more or less unilaterally. If she starts to wig out on you, just say "Okay, Mom, we're done now. You're being manipulative again, and I don't need that." She won't like that one bit, but as long as you continue to assure her that you love her, odds are good that she'll get the message after a while. But as long as there are no consequences for her when she mistreats you, nothing is going to change.
Note that I am not suggesting score-keeping or vindictiveness here. Don't bring up past mistreatment. That won't help anything, and keeping their remembrance fresh in your mind is just bad for you. But if she's messing with you right then and there, you really don't need to put up with it, and your distance enables you to step away at will. Again, the point is not to punish her, but to show her that she really can't treat people this way.
Hang in there. I can't promise things will get better, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. If nothing else, dealing with things this way is likely to significantly reduce your stress-levels.
posted by valkyryn at 4:17 PM on April 5, 2009
As I write this, it's been going on three years since I've had the kind of intimate conversations I had with her in college and high school. I realize now that these weren't actually healthy, but yeah, things are different. And you know what? My relationship with her has improved drastically. Part of the problem was that she was trying to get all of her social support from her children instead of either 1) my father her husband, or 2) actual friends her age. Once my siblings and I stopped putting up with her bullshit, she had to change her habits, and both she and we are doing much better as a result. She's much, much more supportive, whereas she was previously incredibly critical (she meant well, but meaning well and knowing how to actually do well are different things). She still acts closer to her shoe size than her age, which is a constant low-level source of annoyance, but she's basically gotten the message that her family won't put up with manipulative bullshit anymore.
If she's anything like my mother, this probably isn't something you can talk to her about, because again, if she's like my mother, any criticism is likely to be taken as a massively personal affront. There's just no way to talk through something like that. So you just have to kind of change the way you interact with her more or less unilaterally. If she starts to wig out on you, just say "Okay, Mom, we're done now. You're being manipulative again, and I don't need that." She won't like that one bit, but as long as you continue to assure her that you love her, odds are good that she'll get the message after a while. But as long as there are no consequences for her when she mistreats you, nothing is going to change.
Note that I am not suggesting score-keeping or vindictiveness here. Don't bring up past mistreatment. That won't help anything, and keeping their remembrance fresh in your mind is just bad for you. But if she's messing with you right then and there, you really don't need to put up with it, and your distance enables you to step away at will. Again, the point is not to punish her, but to show her that she really can't treat people this way.
Hang in there. I can't promise things will get better, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. If nothing else, dealing with things this way is likely to significantly reduce your stress-levels.
posted by valkyryn at 4:17 PM on April 5, 2009
If I don't talk, she gets very hurt and upset, but if I do talk, I get hurt and upset.
I know JUST what you mean here. I've learned not to share anything with my mom that's important to me, because invariably she insults or demeans or dismisses it. But I do want a relationship of some type with her, and you have to share in order to have a relationship with someone.
I haven't found the happy medium yet. I've tried to be more careful to share things that "don't matter", things about every day life, and asking a lot more questions of her (asking her for recipes, or about things I remember from my childhood that won't cause a lot of drama, like a trip to Disney World [how old was I? was that the same trip where my brother lost his tooth, or was it a different one?]). And when she starts with the guilt trips or being inappropriate or crossing a boundary I don't like, I end the contact. I haven't gotten to the point of confronting her about it yet, and maybe I never will, but it's helping keep me a little bit saner.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 4:39 PM on April 5, 2009
I know JUST what you mean here. I've learned not to share anything with my mom that's important to me, because invariably she insults or demeans or dismisses it. But I do want a relationship of some type with her, and you have to share in order to have a relationship with someone.
I haven't found the happy medium yet. I've tried to be more careful to share things that "don't matter", things about every day life, and asking a lot more questions of her (asking her for recipes, or about things I remember from my childhood that won't cause a lot of drama, like a trip to Disney World [how old was I? was that the same trip where my brother lost his tooth, or was it a different one?]). And when she starts with the guilt trips or being inappropriate or crossing a boundary I don't like, I end the contact. I haven't gotten to the point of confronting her about it yet, and maybe I never will, but it's helping keep me a little bit saner.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 4:39 PM on April 5, 2009
Boundaries is right. You need to decide how close you want to be and clearly enforce those boundaries. This involves (1) tell your mom exactly where those boundaries are; (2) politely terminate all telephone calls that go places they are not supposed to go. This will involve hanging up on her while she is trying to keep you on the phone. Do it politely, but the end result will be you hanging up.
Your mother has serious problems. Keep that in mind when thinking about where you want your boundaries to be. It gets better.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:19 PM on April 5, 2009
Your mother has serious problems. Keep that in mind when thinking about where you want your boundaries to be. It gets better.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:19 PM on April 5, 2009
Check out some books by Deborah Tannen. She addresses lots of different communication issues, two salient books for you are I Only Say this Because I Love You and You're Wearing That.
She addresses boundary issues, as well as... well, lots of stuff. Give her a read.
And bonus, it won't just help with your mom, but with all of the relationships where you have to ... talk to people.
posted by bilabial at 10:16 AM on April 6, 2009
She addresses boundary issues, as well as... well, lots of stuff. Give her a read.
And bonus, it won't just help with your mom, but with all of the relationships where you have to ... talk to people.
posted by bilabial at 10:16 AM on April 6, 2009
What does your mom do? If you can quiz her about her hobbies or her friends and stuff like that, you might be able to deflect part of her quizzing. This sort of works for me part of the time.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 5:51 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by Lesser Shrew at 5:51 PM on April 6, 2009
I've watched people go through similar issues with having to be the 1st generation in America and their mothers still very "old world." The conservative vs. liberal way of thinking is always an issue to butt heads in, have you considered having your mom write about her life, if she hasn't already in a journal or something, so that you could read what she went through? Sometimes it is easiest to see WHY people do the things they do when we have a better understanding of WHERE they came from. Don't sell your mom short, I know many can be overbearing and they may give advice when all you need for them to do is listen, but just remember that she considers herself your mom and wants to make your life better. What she sees may not be what you see, but she may think that she is trying to do what she thinks is the best for you.
posted by penguingrl at 5:04 PM on June 3, 2009
posted by penguingrl at 5:04 PM on June 3, 2009
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It seems like she did a decent enough job considering that you are an independent person doing your own thing - a seemingly impressive thing at that. You need to forgive and let go, and develop enough self-confidence to not care about criticism if you're doing what you think is right. Graciously accepting criticism is in fact one of the hallmarks of graduate school, so you can use your mom's attitude as practice to get through life.
It is also possible that occasionally her criticisms will have merit.
posted by sickinthehead at 3:49 PM on April 5, 2009 [1 favorite]