5th Year PhD Blues
January 31, 2009 10:29 PM Subscribe
Help me maintain some perspective.
I am 5th year (well, actually 5.5 years) PhD student in life sciences. I don't have a single paper yet (waiting for better results for better journal...waiting for which I got scooped recently- same study different organism). I have been working on something for the last 6-8 months which is not really giving me results. I have switched techniques for the same expt because I (or others helping me out) couldn't figure out why the results were non-existent/weird. I am pretty much working on the new technique by myself and it is not fun. I mean I have problems optimizing with which the industry folks can't help me properly and I am sure my boss thinks I am incompetent as a result. This is making me feel a bit scared and very frustrated. I have been experiencing drastic changes in moods lately...I get one little thing to work and I am all happy and positive, when I slog for a week and get nothing I get all weepy. And when that happens, my confidence level just drops below zero. And this cycle repeats every few days or weekly. All the seniors keep saying that 'oh, you'll get results pretty soon- things always work out in the end' etc etc but I dont seen that happening. No matter how hard I work, things don’t seem to move forward at the same pace. I didn’t really think it would take me this long and more to finish. In addition, I feel overwhelmed by my limited knowledge in my field of study- there is so much to read and learn and I just don’t think I have learned as much as I should have as a PhD student. Given what I need to do, its almost like a race against time. And, I am an international student. Most of my friends have graduated (masters/ residency) and left the city. They have all (believe it or not) gotten married in the same time frame as well. Not that I want to get married but the point is that I feel stuck in life!
Are these feelings normal for 5.5 years of grad research? How can I stop being frustrated and maintain some perspective and level-headedness? If you had a similar experience, how did you cope? Any other tips for grad school/research would also be much appreciated.
I am 5th year (well, actually 5.5 years) PhD student in life sciences. I don't have a single paper yet (waiting for better results for better journal...waiting for which I got scooped recently- same study different organism). I have been working on something for the last 6-8 months which is not really giving me results. I have switched techniques for the same expt because I (or others helping me out) couldn't figure out why the results were non-existent/weird. I am pretty much working on the new technique by myself and it is not fun. I mean I have problems optimizing with which the industry folks can't help me properly and I am sure my boss thinks I am incompetent as a result. This is making me feel a bit scared and very frustrated. I have been experiencing drastic changes in moods lately...I get one little thing to work and I am all happy and positive, when I slog for a week and get nothing I get all weepy. And when that happens, my confidence level just drops below zero. And this cycle repeats every few days or weekly. All the seniors keep saying that 'oh, you'll get results pretty soon- things always work out in the end' etc etc but I dont seen that happening. No matter how hard I work, things don’t seem to move forward at the same pace. I didn’t really think it would take me this long and more to finish. In addition, I feel overwhelmed by my limited knowledge in my field of study- there is so much to read and learn and I just don’t think I have learned as much as I should have as a PhD student. Given what I need to do, its almost like a race against time. And, I am an international student. Most of my friends have graduated (masters/ residency) and left the city. They have all (believe it or not) gotten married in the same time frame as well. Not that I want to get married but the point is that I feel stuck in life!
Are these feelings normal for 5.5 years of grad research? How can I stop being frustrated and maintain some perspective and level-headedness? If you had a similar experience, how did you cope? Any other tips for grad school/research would also be much appreciated.
Totally normal. Some useful threads are here and here. The strategies I have tried in order to try and gain perspective and some semblance of normalcy while studying include: exercise, therapy, journalling, taking leave, finding a job, quitting a job, taking time out at retreats, throwing myself into work 24/7, leaning heavily on each and every grad student service available, keeping up with my non-college relationships, and when all else fails just taking a break for a week or two. I think frustration comes with the territory, unfortunately. Sorry I can't contribute any subject-specific advice.
Is there an International Students society at your school, by the way? At my school, it is easily one of the best-attended, most sociable and supportive of all the clubs and societies on campus... maybe something to check out?
posted by Weng at 10:54 PM on January 31, 2009
Is there an International Students society at your school, by the way? At my school, it is easily one of the best-attended, most sociable and supportive of all the clubs and societies on campus... maybe something to check out?
posted by Weng at 10:54 PM on January 31, 2009
It doesn't really matter how hard you've worked on it so far because sometimes it just takes a lot of hard work. Also, it might be helpful to reflect on the sunk-cost fallacy.
posted by rhizome at 11:03 PM on January 31, 2009
posted by rhizome at 11:03 PM on January 31, 2009
Hi, I'm an ABD PhD dropout, and here's what I'd tell my younger self.
Lower your standard (re publication) and change your expectations or approach (re results). You say that an experiment hasn't given you results yet. Really? How?
Research is about communication. Talk about your work with your advisor and other researchers (at your institution and others). Brainstorm with them - don't isolate yourself. And remember, you know more about the area you're working on than 99% of the people in your field.
Ask yourself how the results could come out this way. Do you think you've messed up some protocol, or are you quite sure you're doing it by the book, and you're still getting a weird outcome? If the latter, then you may have found something interesting.
And maybe it is a negative result, and you don't think it's interesting. But someone will, some day. Not every result, and not every PhD, changes the world. Don't let a too-high standard prevent you from finishing. It would be nice to have research that makes people smack their foreheads in amazement, but frankly, most dissertations do not achieve this. And some are only interesting years later, when the field has matured.
Also, if you have confidence issues, see a therapist! I know, you're in grad school and maybe your health plan sucks, but grad school is one of the most difficult worlds emotionally. A therapist can help you get some perspective on yourself and you may find that this helps with your confidence and energy.
In the end, simply understand what you're doing as well as you can, write it up as clearly as you can, point out what's interesting (positive and negative results), and get your advisor to sign off.
And good luck!
posted by zippy at 11:07 PM on January 31, 2009
Lower your standard (re publication) and change your expectations or approach (re results). You say that an experiment hasn't given you results yet. Really? How?
Research is about communication. Talk about your work with your advisor and other researchers (at your institution and others). Brainstorm with them - don't isolate yourself. And remember, you know more about the area you're working on than 99% of the people in your field.
Ask yourself how the results could come out this way. Do you think you've messed up some protocol, or are you quite sure you're doing it by the book, and you're still getting a weird outcome? If the latter, then you may have found something interesting.
And maybe it is a negative result, and you don't think it's interesting. But someone will, some day. Not every result, and not every PhD, changes the world. Don't let a too-high standard prevent you from finishing. It would be nice to have research that makes people smack their foreheads in amazement, but frankly, most dissertations do not achieve this. And some are only interesting years later, when the field has matured.
Also, if you have confidence issues, see a therapist! I know, you're in grad school and maybe your health plan sucks, but grad school is one of the most difficult worlds emotionally. A therapist can help you get some perspective on yourself and you may find that this helps with your confidence and energy.
In the end, simply understand what you're doing as well as you can, write it up as clearly as you can, point out what's interesting (positive and negative results), and get your advisor to sign off.
And good luck!
posted by zippy at 11:07 PM on January 31, 2009
Abso-blooming-lutely. N-thing that this it totally normal For every day spent at the height of euphoria, you have a corresponding day in the slough of despond ...
Not a good strategy to wait for perfect data before publishing -- get something out and get your name known, even for tentative findings. Hie thee to some conferences and find people in a similar area with whom to commiserate -- and speculate on why your findings are so out of kilter. I got the best advice, not from my advisor (who never quite seemed to understand what I was doing), but from other profs at conferences. This has the advantage of giving you some papers on the old resume. Which covers the future employability part.
posted by Susurration at 11:08 PM on January 31, 2009
Not a good strategy to wait for perfect data before publishing -- get something out and get your name known, even for tentative findings. Hie thee to some conferences and find people in a similar area with whom to commiserate -- and speculate on why your findings are so out of kilter. I got the best advice, not from my advisor (who never quite seemed to understand what I was doing), but from other profs at conferences. This has the advantage of giving you some papers on the old resume. Which covers the future employability part.
posted by Susurration at 11:08 PM on January 31, 2009
It is terrible, I am in grad school and have had experiments that take 5 months each to set up fail three times - twice due to employee negligence.
I just think about how happy I am to have legs/whatever else you might have that other folks don't, and daydream about being rich and famous while I'm doing the actual brainless slogging part of research.
posted by Acer_saccharum at 11:09 PM on January 31, 2009
I just think about how happy I am to have legs/whatever else you might have that other folks don't, and daydream about being rich and famous while I'm doing the actual brainless slogging part of research.
posted by Acer_saccharum at 11:09 PM on January 31, 2009
Well, I am only 3rd year, but here goes.
I always try and make sure I have an experiment which will easily work and give results once a week or so - even if it is just a PCR.
Talk with other students, most of them have the same problems, and you can bond. Try teaching undergrads, they can get you thinking again.
Read interesting papers, even if they don't match your field. They might get you enthused in science again, you can also read popsci articles or books for this. See if you can goto a conference, this is the ultimate in "Wow people are interested in my research".
Talk to your supervisor. It is easy to start avoiding your supervisor when you don't have things working, it just makes it harder and harder the longer you go.
When you are down it is easy to go home early, cut corners in the experiments etc, leading into a downward spiral. Drink lots of coffee, and make sure you do things right.
posted by scodger at 12:51 AM on February 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
I always try and make sure I have an experiment which will easily work and give results once a week or so - even if it is just a PCR.
Talk with other students, most of them have the same problems, and you can bond. Try teaching undergrads, they can get you thinking again.
Read interesting papers, even if they don't match your field. They might get you enthused in science again, you can also read popsci articles or books for this. See if you can goto a conference, this is the ultimate in "Wow people are interested in my research".
Talk to your supervisor. It is easy to start avoiding your supervisor when you don't have things working, it just makes it harder and harder the longer you go.
When you are down it is easy to go home early, cut corners in the experiments etc, leading into a downward spiral. Drink lots of coffee, and make sure you do things right.
posted by scodger at 12:51 AM on February 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
I am only coming up to the end of my second year next month, but in NZ, life science PhDs are slightly different to those in the US, and are generally expected to be completed in three to four years. So I'm kind of feeling the pressure now, having had a completely shit first year (due to both my problems and inadequate supervising) and a pretty slow second year. Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone.
Scodger has good advice - these are things I try to do when I'm feeling down.
posted by minus zero at 1:54 AM on February 1, 2009
Scodger has good advice - these are things I try to do when I'm feeling down.
posted by minus zero at 1:54 AM on February 1, 2009
Best answer: Firstly, you need to define your goals clearly. Why are you getting the Ph.D? is it because you're going to work in academia for ever and ever? In which case, yes, be the perfectionist, get the better data, get the sexier paper. Also, you should be thinking seriously about the post-doc and that may make this huge fucking slog worthwhile. It's not just eyes on the prize, it's eyes on the next prize.
Similarly, if not academia then the goal is to get out. Finish! Whatever the state of perfection of your data is, if it's good enough for your advisor and your committee, finish! So what if it gets written up in current biology 3 years from now, your thesis will be submitted and you'll be done. Other non-academic career tracks don't weight these things as heavily.
Secondly, and some what glossing on the first, perspective may be gained by the longer view of goals and purpose. If you know exactly why you're doing these annoying experiments in a more abstract way, i.e. this is a step towards a sexy Science paper, or a technique that may make me valuable in industry it could lift your sights out of the grinding emotional morass that is day to day labwork.
Thirdly, all that stuff you know that you don't know? that's what the rest of your career is for. Hell the rest of your life. There will always be deep bodies of knowledge you have only cursory ideas about. Finding the ones that are important to your work is the challenge.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 2:03 AM on February 1, 2009
Similarly, if not academia then the goal is to get out. Finish! Whatever the state of perfection of your data is, if it's good enough for your advisor and your committee, finish! So what if it gets written up in current biology 3 years from now, your thesis will be submitted and you'll be done. Other non-academic career tracks don't weight these things as heavily.
Secondly, and some what glossing on the first, perspective may be gained by the longer view of goals and purpose. If you know exactly why you're doing these annoying experiments in a more abstract way, i.e. this is a step towards a sexy Science paper, or a technique that may make me valuable in industry it could lift your sights out of the grinding emotional morass that is day to day labwork.
Thirdly, all that stuff you know that you don't know? that's what the rest of your career is for. Hell the rest of your life. There will always be deep bodies of knowledge you have only cursory ideas about. Finding the ones that are important to your work is the challenge.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 2:03 AM on February 1, 2009
Response by poster: fshgrl:
I didn't really think of perfectionism till you mentioned it.
zippy:
You are probably right about the standards- I don't think mine are too high but they sure can be dropped down a notch or two. The problem I am facing is technical so there are no results yet. Heck, I haven't even run the actual expt yet. Not a lot of people work with this instrument and the suggestions of ones who do aren't helping.
Normally I would have a lot more patience with these things- its just that since its already been such a long time, I am almost out of patience and endurance and I don't know how to not let that happen since this is the time when I need it the most. And, I don't intend to quit, yet.
Thank you for all your suggestions.
posted by xm at 10:35 AM on February 1, 2009
I didn't really think of perfectionism till you mentioned it.
zippy:
You are probably right about the standards- I don't think mine are too high but they sure can be dropped down a notch or two. The problem I am facing is technical so there are no results yet. Heck, I haven't even run the actual expt yet. Not a lot of people work with this instrument and the suggestions of ones who do aren't helping.
Normally I would have a lot more patience with these things- its just that since its already been such a long time, I am almost out of patience and endurance and I don't know how to not let that happen since this is the time when I need it the most. And, I don't intend to quit, yet.
Thank you for all your suggestions.
posted by xm at 10:35 AM on February 1, 2009
Good luck! If you can swing it take a week or two off and go somewhere beautiful and peaceful and recharge your batteries a bit.
posted by fshgrl at 1:48 PM on February 1, 2009
posted by fshgrl at 1:48 PM on February 1, 2009
Woah, I have nothing to contribute except empathy and encouragement, because I totally experience the same thing on a routine basis. La lucha continua...
posted by zachxman at 4:37 PM on February 1, 2009
posted by zachxman at 4:37 PM on February 1, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by fshgrl at 10:50 PM on January 31, 2009