He can't be a vampire. He doesn't sparkle in the sunlight.
January 29, 2009 5:07 PM Subscribe
Can I get a second cat without wrecking my first one's life?
About eight months ago I became the fourth (and hopefully final) home for a "troubled" cat. Chewy is probably about 5 years old, front declawed by whoever owned him first, used to be indoor-outdoor, but is now completely indoor, and is a bit of a biter (understatement). He came to me from his most recent home because he couldn't seem to settle in with the four other cats in the house. Apparently, despite his size and his ability to fight quite effectively, he got agitated and uncomfortable when, as his former owner put it, "the other cats would come up to him and just look at him." We thought maybe his being the only cat in a household would calm him down and stop his "misplaced aggression" (jerkiness).
So eight months on, he's pretty happily settled in, except his thing for biting bruisingly hard even when completely unprovoked hasn't gone away. (Video NSFW because of some cussin'.) He's really smart, and I wonder if part of his aggression comes from being bored, even though I play with him every day (string, laser pointer, etc.)
I'd love to give him another cat to keep him busy, but would only want to do it if it would actually improve the quality of life for both animals. If it's going to just stress him out I don't want to do it. I already need to use Feliway just to keep his biting to a minimum.
So my question, finally, is -- has anyone ever had a similarly "problem" cat who didn't get along with large groups of cats but enjoyed a single buddy? And if so, is there a good age/gender/temperament match for a 5 year old neutered male?
About eight months ago I became the fourth (and hopefully final) home for a "troubled" cat. Chewy is probably about 5 years old, front declawed by whoever owned him first, used to be indoor-outdoor, but is now completely indoor, and is a bit of a biter (understatement). He came to me from his most recent home because he couldn't seem to settle in with the four other cats in the house. Apparently, despite his size and his ability to fight quite effectively, he got agitated and uncomfortable when, as his former owner put it, "the other cats would come up to him and just look at him." We thought maybe his being the only cat in a household would calm him down and stop his "misplaced aggression" (jerkiness).
So eight months on, he's pretty happily settled in, except his thing for biting bruisingly hard even when completely unprovoked hasn't gone away. (Video NSFW because of some cussin'.) He's really smart, and I wonder if part of his aggression comes from being bored, even though I play with him every day (string, laser pointer, etc.)
I'd love to give him another cat to keep him busy, but would only want to do it if it would actually improve the quality of life for both animals. If it's going to just stress him out I don't want to do it. I already need to use Feliway just to keep his biting to a minimum.
So my question, finally, is -- has anyone ever had a similarly "problem" cat who didn't get along with large groups of cats but enjoyed a single buddy? And if so, is there a good age/gender/temperament match for a 5 year old neutered male?
Rather than going with a shelter, you may want to see if there is a place that fosters and then matches a cat to you situation.
posted by kellyblah at 5:32 PM on January 29, 2009
posted by kellyblah at 5:32 PM on January 29, 2009
Some cats get along with just certain other cats. Other ones really really love to be the only animal in the house. If you have a friend with a super calm cat, you can try a meetup in your house -- the problem might have been that he was going into another cat's territory.
My cat-who-disdains-other-cats will allow kittens to cuddle her, and by the time a kitten is an adult, your cat might be used to it -- or he might not. I wouldn't risk it. If you do get another cat, an older cat (3-4+) who used to live with other animals is probably better. I've never had specific problems from declawed cats living with cats who are not declawed.
I've found any pairing works ok except two neutered females, but like JujuB I think two neutered males tends to work best. (I'm assuming that in his last home, he disliked both males and females. If not, just choose the other sex.)
posted by jeather at 5:43 PM on January 29, 2009
My cat-who-disdains-other-cats will allow kittens to cuddle her, and by the time a kitten is an adult, your cat might be used to it -- or he might not. I wouldn't risk it. If you do get another cat, an older cat (3-4+) who used to live with other animals is probably better. I've never had specific problems from declawed cats living with cats who are not declawed.
I've found any pairing works ok except two neutered females, but like JujuB I think two neutered males tends to work best. (I'm assuming that in his last home, he disliked both males and females. If not, just choose the other sex.)
posted by jeather at 5:43 PM on January 29, 2009
At one time my brother had a cat and a roommate with two of his own furballs. They lived together for several years, and my brother's cat was a snippy, aggressive loner the whole time. Once those two were gone, and he had some time to be the head of the house for a while, my sister-in-law decided it might be the right time to get a kitten.
It could not have worked out any better-he took the new kitty (also a male) under his wing, and has been a different cat ever since-for the better. Of course YMMV, but it turned out to be a very positive thing to let him 'raise' his very own baby. My brother knew the risks and arranged ahead of time to return the kitten to his mother's owner if things didn't work out as well as they did. If you could manage something like that, it may be worth a try.
Then again, I may not be getting the proper impression of just how sensitive and agressive your cat really is. Things may very well turn out for the worse. Good luck. Your cat is lucky to have such a thoughtful owner.
posted by sunshinesky at 6:00 PM on January 29, 2009
It could not have worked out any better-he took the new kitty (also a male) under his wing, and has been a different cat ever since-for the better. Of course YMMV, but it turned out to be a very positive thing to let him 'raise' his very own baby. My brother knew the risks and arranged ahead of time to return the kitten to his mother's owner if things didn't work out as well as they did. If you could manage something like that, it may be worth a try.
Then again, I may not be getting the proper impression of just how sensitive and agressive your cat really is. Things may very well turn out for the worse. Good luck. Your cat is lucky to have such a thoughtful owner.
posted by sunshinesky at 6:00 PM on January 29, 2009
The biting seems to me to be his way of attacking while playing. You are getting plenty of notice about the attack so I wouldn't describe it as random aggressive psycho cat, more that he has no idea how to play attack vs. real attack. This is pretty common with declawed cats actually, it's like they learn to overcompensate for not having claws when they should be learning to use their claws gently. It may not actually translate to aggressiveness with other cats, especially if the new cat set Chewy straight on the whole issue. I would try to see if you could teach him some restraint first. The thing to do when he "plays" too hard is to blow in his face. See if that gets him to back off (it works on my cats). The trick is to keep yourself from screaming and to react calmly -- you have to do it instantly. If you can manage it, a few weeks of that and he might start to learn to be more gentle. If he CAN be more gentle, then introducing another cat will work if you find one who can deal with Chewy without losing it -- a mellow, dominant cat would be best. It's taken me about 1 1/2 years to "defang" my attack cat but she finally came around. I hope you have faster luck than me.
posted by dness2 at 6:20 PM on January 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by dness2 at 6:20 PM on January 29, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'd be careful about bringing another cat in. You'll probably want to foster several and see what Chewy is willing to put up with in terms of older/younger and active/boring. A older, relaxed (i.e. boring) cat might be the easiest for him to adjust to, but a cat around his age might give him the most enjoyment if he can get along with them.
And a bit of not-directly-solicited-for advice in re biting:
My cat has a habit of biting us quite hard on the feet and legs without provocation. It's his signal that he wants us to wrestle with him, which means knocking him over, playfully batting at his sides, and sort of generally pushing him around. He loves it. It sounds like Chewy might be asking for a similar sort of treatment. If you don't like getting bit you could buy a pair of leather gloves for this sort of play. Wiggling your hand under a towel or rug (as though an animal is crawling around under it) is also a good game of that genre.
If he is trying to actually hurt you, and isn't just trying to play, fighting back (gently) might be the way to train him out of it. He's not going to stop biting you unless he respects you as the dominant animal; right now it sounds like he doesn't. Lightly tapping him on the nose or pinning him on his back for a few seconds are both good ways to send the message that "I am bigger than you." Obviously, you never want to take physical discipline to any higher level than this; laws and morals aside, it's not very effective.
You may not be able to do anything about this, either. Cats often get a little funny in the head when they get declawed, and it often shows up as aggressiveness. If somebody cut off the ends of your fingers, you'd probably start biting people, too.
posted by Commander Rachek at 6:23 PM on January 29, 2009
And a bit of not-directly-solicited-for advice in re biting:
My cat has a habit of biting us quite hard on the feet and legs without provocation. It's his signal that he wants us to wrestle with him, which means knocking him over, playfully batting at his sides, and sort of generally pushing him around. He loves it. It sounds like Chewy might be asking for a similar sort of treatment. If you don't like getting bit you could buy a pair of leather gloves for this sort of play. Wiggling your hand under a towel or rug (as though an animal is crawling around under it) is also a good game of that genre.
If he is trying to actually hurt you, and isn't just trying to play, fighting back (gently) might be the way to train him out of it. He's not going to stop biting you unless he respects you as the dominant animal; right now it sounds like he doesn't. Lightly tapping him on the nose or pinning him on his back for a few seconds are both good ways to send the message that "I am bigger than you." Obviously, you never want to take physical discipline to any higher level than this; laws and morals aside, it's not very effective.
You may not be able to do anything about this, either. Cats often get a little funny in the head when they get declawed, and it often shows up as aggressiveness. If somebody cut off the ends of your fingers, you'd probably start biting people, too.
posted by Commander Rachek at 6:23 PM on January 29, 2009
I should note that, as dness2 says, the tapping/pinning needs to happen right after he bites you. Otherwise he won't make the connection that that's what you're punishing him for.
posted by Commander Rachek at 6:27 PM on January 29, 2009
posted by Commander Rachek at 6:27 PM on January 29, 2009
Do you know how he behaves with other cats? Is he the aggressor with them or does he get beat up by them? I've had cats that are always the ones getting beat up and others that are always the aggressors. Find out what he was like with other cats, because that would be a good indicator of how he'll behave once you get a new kitty.
posted by DorothySmith at 8:45 PM on January 29, 2009
posted by DorothySmith at 8:45 PM on January 29, 2009
PS. I just watched the video! He's super cute!
Have you tried a spray bottle? I use the spray bottle to get my cats to stop doing whatever I hate them doing (ie. stealing my food, bugging the other cat, clawing furniture etc.) and now I just have to shake the bottle and they run away scared. They hate hate hate hate the water. Perhaps whenever he bites you, or looks like he's going to, give him a squirt.
posted by DorothySmith at 8:50 PM on January 29, 2009
Have you tried a spray bottle? I use the spray bottle to get my cats to stop doing whatever I hate them doing (ie. stealing my food, bugging the other cat, clawing furniture etc.) and now I just have to shake the bottle and they run away scared. They hate hate hate hate the water. Perhaps whenever he bites you, or looks like he's going to, give him a squirt.
posted by DorothySmith at 8:50 PM on January 29, 2009
Best answer: I think it would be wise to get Chewy into a less bitey pattern of behaviour before you consider another cat. Getting some training and manners on him before introducing another cat is going to be to everyones benefit, including Chewy's.
Declawed cats will bite because they have no claws to use gently or otherwise. In his past he may have been played with roughly and encouraged to attack and bite. He may not have been socialised properly with cats and humans when he was very young. Cats taken from the litter for homing before the age of 7 weeks will often have socialisation issues which translate in later life into aggressive play with other cats or humans. Over aggression during play or normal handling is frequently a sign of this. Combined with a cat that has had its first line of defense and exploration removed (claws), results in this type of behaviour.
I think your key to solving this bite issue is going to be learning to accurately recognise his body language prior to an attack. There are plenty of good books available about cat behaviour that illustrate the type of facial expression, body language, movement etc that will help you.
When you recognise that he's very stimulated (that video shows a very alert. stimulated Chewy) before he launches at you - use distraction to get him off your case - throw a treat or a toy across infront of him. Have plenty of toys around your home to hand at all times.
Clicker training (many good cat clicker training books and dvds available) would be a more effective route to go than punishment by pinning him to the ground to mimic a dominant cat - dominant cats actually walk away from conflict - it's the ones further down the heirarchy that will push for a fight. Pinning him to the ground is highly likely to get you very badly bitten. Don't do it. Yes, some cats enjoy it as part of a play routine, but a cat that is prone to biting like this is likely to see it as an attack and respond accordingly. Pinned on his back he is going to use his back claws which can rip deeper than front ones. I'd be very careful if you choose to use the blow-in-his-face technique too, sharp mouth breathing (puffing) is a sign of fear/agression in felines and it might land you with a facial bite. Using a water spray is only going to teach him to break off a bite to you - because he will associate it with only you. It won't change his behaviour beyond its immediate effect. You want to replace his biting behaviour with calm acceptable behaviour, not fear.
More interactive daily play with him is going to give you the opportunity to teach him what is acceptable and what isn't. When he plays without biting - reward him, with treats or petting, softly spoken words. When he gets rough, stay quiet, yes I know how hard this is to do when you have fangs stuck into your flesh but it is essential - to avoid stimulating him further and to teach him that this behaviour loses your attention (which is his reward) - when he bites, disengage without words. look away, walk away, go and do something normal that doesn't involve him. For an active looking fit 5 yr old indoor cat, he needs at least a couple of vigorous 30 minute interactive play sessions daily. There are interactive cat toys you can buy that he can play with when he's on his own too. For general interactive play, use toys that remove your body parts out of the game, throwing toys, cat dancers, wands are the thing to use. If Chewy bites a toy you are holding, stop playing immediately. Walk away. A cat that has been an indoor/outdoor cat can take a very long time to adjust to being indoors only, he definately needs lots of vigorous play to dispel his energy.
Corny old cliche time: Adrenaline high = learning low. This applies to humans as well as animals. When Chewy has bitten you, both your adrenaline levels are up, so this is not the time to try and teach him anything. Avoiding situations where he gets to the point of biting you will allow you both to learn more about his limits and yours.
When you play with him, pet him or handle him, stop doing it whilst he's enjoying it and not biting. If you stop then, this teaches him that interaction does not have to end in biting and he will eventually drop the behaviour because he isn't getting stimulated to the point that he needs to bite. It's one of the golden tools of training any animal, you end on a good note. For now, you are in charge of all the good notes.
No animal does anything without a reason. You may see your own behaviour as not provoking his bite response but from the video, something (you were doing/about your behaviour) was stimulating him to launch a play attack - was the camera strap dangling? Were you staring at him without blinking or looking away? Extended full on eye contact for most mammals is a sign of intended aggression. Avoid it. On the Flickr shot of your wounded arm, the caption says that he did that when you tried to move him from your lap - clicker training and/or distraction are going to be the best way forward for you when you want him to move away or off of your lap. Yes, I know this sounds unreasonable, but every time Chewy gets a bite in, it reinforces to him that he can behave this way. Avoiding situations where he gets to the point of biting is going to be the fairest and most humane method of training him.
I don't know how much Feliway you are using, but one diffuser only treats 70 sq meters. One diffuser (per 70 sq m) in each room, supplemented by the spray at cat head height around your home will really help him feel calmer and more secure. As this is his fourth home, he is definately going to have some security issues. These are likely to be a part of his biting response too.
Once you Chewy starts showing that he can play without biting, then would be a good time to think about getting another cat. I think to add another cat now, might just result in Chewy transferring the aggressive behaviour to another cat. Which isn't addressing his inappropiate behaviour now and could result in two very unhappy cats and one very unhappy owner.
Proper respect to you for taking on a cat with behavioural issues and of course..
Best of luck to you both.
posted by Arqa at 2:29 AM on January 30, 2009 [7 favorites]
Declawed cats will bite because they have no claws to use gently or otherwise. In his past he may have been played with roughly and encouraged to attack and bite. He may not have been socialised properly with cats and humans when he was very young. Cats taken from the litter for homing before the age of 7 weeks will often have socialisation issues which translate in later life into aggressive play with other cats or humans. Over aggression during play or normal handling is frequently a sign of this. Combined with a cat that has had its first line of defense and exploration removed (claws), results in this type of behaviour.
I think your key to solving this bite issue is going to be learning to accurately recognise his body language prior to an attack. There are plenty of good books available about cat behaviour that illustrate the type of facial expression, body language, movement etc that will help you.
When you recognise that he's very stimulated (that video shows a very alert. stimulated Chewy) before he launches at you - use distraction to get him off your case - throw a treat or a toy across infront of him. Have plenty of toys around your home to hand at all times.
Clicker training (many good cat clicker training books and dvds available) would be a more effective route to go than punishment by pinning him to the ground to mimic a dominant cat - dominant cats actually walk away from conflict - it's the ones further down the heirarchy that will push for a fight. Pinning him to the ground is highly likely to get you very badly bitten. Don't do it. Yes, some cats enjoy it as part of a play routine, but a cat that is prone to biting like this is likely to see it as an attack and respond accordingly. Pinned on his back he is going to use his back claws which can rip deeper than front ones. I'd be very careful if you choose to use the blow-in-his-face technique too, sharp mouth breathing (puffing) is a sign of fear/agression in felines and it might land you with a facial bite. Using a water spray is only going to teach him to break off a bite to you - because he will associate it with only you. It won't change his behaviour beyond its immediate effect. You want to replace his biting behaviour with calm acceptable behaviour, not fear.
More interactive daily play with him is going to give you the opportunity to teach him what is acceptable and what isn't. When he plays without biting - reward him, with treats or petting, softly spoken words. When he gets rough, stay quiet, yes I know how hard this is to do when you have fangs stuck into your flesh but it is essential - to avoid stimulating him further and to teach him that this behaviour loses your attention (which is his reward) - when he bites, disengage without words. look away, walk away, go and do something normal that doesn't involve him. For an active looking fit 5 yr old indoor cat, he needs at least a couple of vigorous 30 minute interactive play sessions daily. There are interactive cat toys you can buy that he can play with when he's on his own too. For general interactive play, use toys that remove your body parts out of the game, throwing toys, cat dancers, wands are the thing to use. If Chewy bites a toy you are holding, stop playing immediately. Walk away. A cat that has been an indoor/outdoor cat can take a very long time to adjust to being indoors only, he definately needs lots of vigorous play to dispel his energy.
Corny old cliche time: Adrenaline high = learning low. This applies to humans as well as animals. When Chewy has bitten you, both your adrenaline levels are up, so this is not the time to try and teach him anything. Avoiding situations where he gets to the point of biting you will allow you both to learn more about his limits and yours.
When you play with him, pet him or handle him, stop doing it whilst he's enjoying it and not biting. If you stop then, this teaches him that interaction does not have to end in biting and he will eventually drop the behaviour because he isn't getting stimulated to the point that he needs to bite. It's one of the golden tools of training any animal, you end on a good note. For now, you are in charge of all the good notes.
No animal does anything without a reason. You may see your own behaviour as not provoking his bite response but from the video, something (you were doing/about your behaviour) was stimulating him to launch a play attack - was the camera strap dangling? Were you staring at him without blinking or looking away? Extended full on eye contact for most mammals is a sign of intended aggression. Avoid it. On the Flickr shot of your wounded arm, the caption says that he did that when you tried to move him from your lap - clicker training and/or distraction are going to be the best way forward for you when you want him to move away or off of your lap. Yes, I know this sounds unreasonable, but every time Chewy gets a bite in, it reinforces to him that he can behave this way. Avoiding situations where he gets to the point of biting is going to be the fairest and most humane method of training him.
I don't know how much Feliway you are using, but one diffuser only treats 70 sq meters. One diffuser (per 70 sq m) in each room, supplemented by the spray at cat head height around your home will really help him feel calmer and more secure. As this is his fourth home, he is definately going to have some security issues. These are likely to be a part of his biting response too.
Once you Chewy starts showing that he can play without biting, then would be a good time to think about getting another cat. I think to add another cat now, might just result in Chewy transferring the aggressive behaviour to another cat. Which isn't addressing his inappropiate behaviour now and could result in two very unhappy cats and one very unhappy owner.
Proper respect to you for taking on a cat with behavioural issues and of course..
Best of luck to you both.
posted by Arqa at 2:29 AM on January 30, 2009 [7 favorites]
Adding another cat to that doesn't seem like a good idea. Arqa has the right of it, I think.
posted by batmonkey at 2:56 AM on January 30, 2009
posted by batmonkey at 2:56 AM on January 30, 2009
I have to say from my experience its very difficult to give general advice about this. We had 2 cats who got along awesome- they were best friends. Unfortunately one of them died suddenly last November. The remaining cat had always been a little stand-offish but after his buddy died he was like velcro- constantly at our side, sleeping snugged against us, etc. We decided to rescue another cat and now hes back to being stand-offish and mopey. Our new cat is young and relatively aggressive about getting affection so our speculation is that Lucas just doesn't want to compete for affection since he will "stealth cuddle" in the middle of the night (I frequently wake up with him asleep next to me). So- with one cat who has been with 2 other cats he has been different in both cases. Granted the first buddy was female and the second was male (which is why they tussle more I imagine) but he went from being cuddly and friendly with one cat to "leave me alone pls" with the new cat. Obviously there are lots of different variables at play here (gender, age, experience, time, etc.) but the point is its tough to generalize. I think the advice above about fostering other cats until you find a match is a good idea.
posted by zennoshinjou at 7:31 AM on January 30, 2009
posted by zennoshinjou at 7:31 AM on January 30, 2009
As has been mentioned cats do react differently so I can only suggest what's worked for me..
I've had problems in the past with introducing a new adult cat into a mix of other adult cats, most will however tolerate a kitten...and just the way we can't resist kittens they can usually can win over the adult cat. Not to mention that kittens are all in for the wrestling and biting (if there is another cat for this activity Chewy will be less likely to come to you for that type of play). Cats are hunters so sometimes the play is rough, they will fight and snuggle as is their whim.
If you do decide to introduce another cat I would also agree with the suggestion of bringing a male into the mix, neutered males do best together in my experience especially if they are not kittens together to start out.
And just to add... I have also had good results with blowing in their face to stop unwanted behaviors. I do get the offended 'wtf' look but it gets the point across and they are quick to want approval and a snuggle after so there is no permanent damage to their dignity.
When Smash arrived ( at 9 weeks ) Liam ( 3 years ) acted uninterested for about 4 days and then decided he was the buddy he'd waited his whole life for. lol Lily (4 years ) is too cool for school and finds them both very immature but within a month decided she is just as happy bossing 2 boys around.
Anyway..that is what has worked for me in the past and I have a happy trio all living in relative harmony.
Best of luck to you and Chewy!!
posted by Weaslegirl at 10:47 PM on February 8, 2009
I've had problems in the past with introducing a new adult cat into a mix of other adult cats, most will however tolerate a kitten...and just the way we can't resist kittens they can usually can win over the adult cat. Not to mention that kittens are all in for the wrestling and biting (if there is another cat for this activity Chewy will be less likely to come to you for that type of play). Cats are hunters so sometimes the play is rough, they will fight and snuggle as is their whim.
If you do decide to introduce another cat I would also agree with the suggestion of bringing a male into the mix, neutered males do best together in my experience especially if they are not kittens together to start out.
And just to add... I have also had good results with blowing in their face to stop unwanted behaviors. I do get the offended 'wtf' look but it gets the point across and they are quick to want approval and a snuggle after so there is no permanent damage to their dignity.
When Smash arrived ( at 9 weeks ) Liam ( 3 years ) acted uninterested for about 4 days and then decided he was the buddy he'd waited his whole life for. lol Lily (4 years ) is too cool for school and finds them both very immature but within a month decided she is just as happy bossing 2 boys around.
Anyway..that is what has worked for me in the past and I have a happy trio all living in relative harmony.
Best of luck to you and Chewy!!
posted by Weaslegirl at 10:47 PM on February 8, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by JujuB at 5:15 PM on January 29, 2009