Is it realistic to start a career as a clinical psychologist aged 40?
December 9, 2008 3:39 AM Subscribe
Is it realistic to start a career as a clinical psychologist aged 40?
I'm 32 and, after much research, have decided I want a career in clinical psychology.
My background is writing (copywriting, PR, journalism) which I've recently taken in the direction of mental health advocacy in my spare time. However writing on the whole is not satisfying enough (I only chose it because it was easy and stuck with its more evil varieties because it paid well) and the thought of doing it for the next 30 years is terrifying. I want to leave media roles behind me and move into clinical psychology, where ideally I’d like to combine hands-on work with patients with research and mental health advocacy.
The thing is, according to all the part-time, off-campus, postgraduate study options I've looked at with reputable universities, I'll be 40 by the time I'm qualified to practice as a psychologist in Australia. Am I only dreaming that I can get a career off the ground, as a clinical psychologist, from scratch aged 40? (I can't afford to study full-time, as I don't receive financial support, so it's not an option for me to fast track.)
In a couple of ways, it makes sense to me that clinical psychology should be my mid-life career change: I want to have a child in the next couple of years, so say I have one at 34, he or she will be in school when I’m 40, which will allow me to a little more career freedom with regards to hours.
But how can I make the next eight years count professionally towards clinical psychology while I study part-time? Should I go and do media or copywriting for a mental health charity? Or should I not try to combine the two, and stick with more lucrative copywriting so I can spend more time with my future child while working much less, then make a clean break at 40? If I do make a clean break at 40, will I find that I'm unemployable as I have no experience and I'm competing with much younger graduates?
Apologies in advance if the answers seem obvious, and I know that if I don’t study I won’t have a new career in eight year’s time, but I just want to make sure that my dreams of a career change slotted in around motherhood, and competing with much younger graduates, are realistic.
NB: I don’t want a hugely successful career as a clinical psychologist, as mothering will always come first so I won’t put in the extra hours necessary to climb the ladder, but I would like a secure career, that pays an average income.
I'm 32 and, after much research, have decided I want a career in clinical psychology.
My background is writing (copywriting, PR, journalism) which I've recently taken in the direction of mental health advocacy in my spare time. However writing on the whole is not satisfying enough (I only chose it because it was easy and stuck with its more evil varieties because it paid well) and the thought of doing it for the next 30 years is terrifying. I want to leave media roles behind me and move into clinical psychology, where ideally I’d like to combine hands-on work with patients with research and mental health advocacy.
The thing is, according to all the part-time, off-campus, postgraduate study options I've looked at with reputable universities, I'll be 40 by the time I'm qualified to practice as a psychologist in Australia. Am I only dreaming that I can get a career off the ground, as a clinical psychologist, from scratch aged 40? (I can't afford to study full-time, as I don't receive financial support, so it's not an option for me to fast track.)
In a couple of ways, it makes sense to me that clinical psychology should be my mid-life career change: I want to have a child in the next couple of years, so say I have one at 34, he or she will be in school when I’m 40, which will allow me to a little more career freedom with regards to hours.
But how can I make the next eight years count professionally towards clinical psychology while I study part-time? Should I go and do media or copywriting for a mental health charity? Or should I not try to combine the two, and stick with more lucrative copywriting so I can spend more time with my future child while working much less, then make a clean break at 40? If I do make a clean break at 40, will I find that I'm unemployable as I have no experience and I'm competing with much younger graduates?
Apologies in advance if the answers seem obvious, and I know that if I don’t study I won’t have a new career in eight year’s time, but I just want to make sure that my dreams of a career change slotted in around motherhood, and competing with much younger graduates, are realistic.
NB: I don’t want a hugely successful career as a clinical psychologist, as mothering will always come first so I won’t put in the extra hours necessary to climb the ladder, but I would like a secure career, that pays an average income.
I'd recommend you start by reading the advice (especially ikkyu2's) in this recent thread. I'm not sure what the standards are like in Australia, but in the United States accredited PhD programs in clinical psychology are the most difficult graduate programs to gain admission to, and the amount of work required of you after you're admitted is insane. I'm not sure that your projected timeline is at all realistic, either... again, this advice applies only to U.S. programs, but I'm guessing you'll need at least a year of undergraduate-level hard science courses (Organic Chemistry, etc.) just to bring yourself up to the level of the people you'd be competing against for slots in the programs you're applying for.
Following that, the majority of full-time programs in the U.S. would take a minimum of 5 years (and that's assuming that you don't encounter a single delay or complication in your dissertation research); while I admire your courage for even contemplating working full-time, going to school part-time and raising an infant simultaneously, I don't think it's even remotely realistic, especially after the first couple of years, when you'll be expected to design and implement independent research for your dissertation AND continue to attend graduate-level classes AND participate in clinical externships and internships. If you're planning on doing all of this part-time (whilst working and raising a child), you're looking at being able to devote what, about 2-4 hours a day to it, tops? I'm not saying it can't be done, but it certainly seems unlikely.
Again, clinical psychology is one of the most difficult and rigorous graduate degrees a person can pursue. As ikkyu2's advice in the above-linked thread makes clear, clinical psychology programs are for people with a serious commitment and passion for the science of psychology who desperately want to contribute to the furtherance of our understanding of the human mind through rigorous scientific study and original research designs. If you're not in the position to buckle down and focus exclusively on that goal, then you shouldn't be pursuing clinical psychology, period. I admire your ambition and very much hope that you'll be able to achieve your goals, but I think that at the very least you need to seriously reconsider the timeline that you've laid out, especially with regards to starting a family.
posted by saladin at 5:18 AM on December 9, 2008
Following that, the majority of full-time programs in the U.S. would take a minimum of 5 years (and that's assuming that you don't encounter a single delay or complication in your dissertation research); while I admire your courage for even contemplating working full-time, going to school part-time and raising an infant simultaneously, I don't think it's even remotely realistic, especially after the first couple of years, when you'll be expected to design and implement independent research for your dissertation AND continue to attend graduate-level classes AND participate in clinical externships and internships. If you're planning on doing all of this part-time (whilst working and raising a child), you're looking at being able to devote what, about 2-4 hours a day to it, tops? I'm not saying it can't be done, but it certainly seems unlikely.
Again, clinical psychology is one of the most difficult and rigorous graduate degrees a person can pursue. As ikkyu2's advice in the above-linked thread makes clear, clinical psychology programs are for people with a serious commitment and passion for the science of psychology who desperately want to contribute to the furtherance of our understanding of the human mind through rigorous scientific study and original research designs. If you're not in the position to buckle down and focus exclusively on that goal, then you shouldn't be pursuing clinical psychology, period. I admire your ambition and very much hope that you'll be able to achieve your goals, but I think that at the very least you need to seriously reconsider the timeline that you've laid out, especially with regards to starting a family.
posted by saladin at 5:18 AM on December 9, 2008
Best answer: A friend of mine started medical school at 40. A quarter century later, she is a psychiatrist in private practice and loves her work.
posted by Carol Anne at 5:22 AM on December 9, 2008
posted by Carol Anne at 5:22 AM on December 9, 2008
The younger graduate thing - pffft. Mature age students tend to do better at studies, they know what they want and they have life experience and work experience that helps them understand the material better, and organise their studies better.
That said, suppose you live in Queensland and you want to go to the University of Queensland. You're looking at a minimum of 6 full-time years (degree -3 + honours -1 + masters 2), to get to a point where you're registered with the Australian Psychological Society.
Have you considered other avenues where you could work with people in need? For example, Health Services or community services? (These are all Queensland links, but I'm sure you can find something appropriate in your area).
Also, what's an average income to you? A secure job with better than average income is working for government, local, state or federal. There's such a huge variety of positions, and opportunities for professional development, and to contribute to the community. Practiciing psychologists, on the other hand, charge $100+ an hour. Even with upkeep of their offices (often shared), to me, that seems like a better than average income.
posted by b33j at 5:42 AM on December 9, 2008
That said, suppose you live in Queensland and you want to go to the University of Queensland. You're looking at a minimum of 6 full-time years (degree -3 + honours -1 + masters 2), to get to a point where you're registered with the Australian Psychological Society.
Have you considered other avenues where you could work with people in need? For example, Health Services or community services? (These are all Queensland links, but I'm sure you can find something appropriate in your area).
Also, what's an average income to you? A secure job with better than average income is working for government, local, state or federal. There's such a huge variety of positions, and opportunities for professional development, and to contribute to the community. Practiciing psychologists, on the other hand, charge $100+ an hour. Even with upkeep of their offices (often shared), to me, that seems like a better than average income.
posted by b33j at 5:42 AM on December 9, 2008
With no disrespect meant to saladin, clinical psychology is certainly a demanding graduate study field, but it's not the very worst; I have a number of friends and family members who have done graduate studies in clinical psychology, and while it's hard, I've seen people have a harder time in other fields (e.g. medicine, ceramic engineering).
One of my dearest friends is 48 and just completed the grind. She's delighted. It took a lot of commitment, but you probably don't even contemplate clinical psychology unless you're driven to help people.
There are other avenues that are pretty similar that don't require such a grind. For instance, family therapy, while having a rigorous accreditation test in the US, doesn't require a postgraduate degree. Things may be different in Australia, but you might be able to do the advocacy and hands-on parts without committing yourself to as much academic study as you might otherwise.
posted by felix at 6:32 AM on December 9, 2008
One of my dearest friends is 48 and just completed the grind. She's delighted. It took a lot of commitment, but you probably don't even contemplate clinical psychology unless you're driven to help people.
There are other avenues that are pretty similar that don't require such a grind. For instance, family therapy, while having a rigorous accreditation test in the US, doesn't require a postgraduate degree. Things may be different in Australia, but you might be able to do the advocacy and hands-on parts without committing yourself to as much academic study as you might otherwise.
posted by felix at 6:32 AM on December 9, 2008
Echoing the others: How old will you be in 8 years if you don't choose this route?
posted by unixrat at 6:43 AM on December 9, 2008
posted by unixrat at 6:43 AM on December 9, 2008
Response by poster: Thanks everyone - wow, there's some pretty depressing sentiments here. Even though I've budgeted not to work more than two days a week with a child under five, studying as well as mothering doesn't sound do-able. I guess I've had my chance at a career and messed up in the sense that now, at my age, I must choose motherhood or a career change (I choose motherhood but what do I do when my child starts school freeing up my days and then leaves the nest freeing up my life? Hmmm.) Health services and community services are both things I've looked into, but I would earn more than 50% less than what I do now as the pay is appalling, and that doesn't seem like a great career move if a financial emergency such as a childhood illness strikes. Are women doomed if they don't get their career sorted in their twenties? Lots. To. Think. About.
posted by elke at 7:47 AM on December 9, 2008
posted by elke at 7:47 AM on December 9, 2008
Best answer: I guess I've had my chance at a career and messed up [...] Are women doomed if they don't get their career sorted in their twenties?
NO. No, we're not. My brother-in-law's sister is, in her mid-40s, starting a new career in emergency nursing and she couldn't be more excited. This is after raising two children, including one special-needs child who died earlier this year. It will be hard, damn hard -- but then, that's true of plenty of things worth having.
Look, I've made too many decisions not to do things because I thought I'd messed up my one chance to do them (*stares wistfully at the electric guitar under her bed*). You're only 32. You most likely have 30+ years of your working life ahead of you. Yes, there are certain drawbacks for women (especially mothers) entering the workforce or changing careers at a certain age, but don't let them defeat you before you even get out of the gate.
posted by scody at 9:07 AM on December 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
NO. No, we're not. My brother-in-law's sister is, in her mid-40s, starting a new career in emergency nursing and she couldn't be more excited. This is after raising two children, including one special-needs child who died earlier this year. It will be hard, damn hard -- but then, that's true of plenty of things worth having.
Look, I've made too many decisions not to do things because I thought I'd messed up my one chance to do them (*stares wistfully at the electric guitar under her bed*). You're only 32. You most likely have 30+ years of your working life ahead of you. Yes, there are certain drawbacks for women (especially mothers) entering the workforce or changing careers at a certain age, but don't let them defeat you before you even get out of the gate.
posted by scody at 9:07 AM on December 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
You need to start making the baby steps towards your dream now (apply for programs, whatever is needed). If it doesn't work out it doesn't work out but the worst that happens is you spend some time discovering that it's not realistic to pursue.
I speak as someone who is realizing that I'll be 36 before I finish my undergrad and who hopes to pursue graduate studies.
posted by Octoparrot at 9:30 AM on December 9, 2008
I speak as someone who is realizing that I'll be 36 before I finish my undergrad and who hopes to pursue graduate studies.
posted by Octoparrot at 9:30 AM on December 9, 2008
Saladin's right; you should read my advice in the earlier thread.
I want to leave media roles behind me and move into clinical psychology, where ideally I’d like to combine hands-on work with patients with research and mental health advocacy.
I won’t put in the extra hours necessary to climb the ladder, but I would like a secure career, that pays an average income.
You are too wordy. Let me rephrase your statements:
I would like to compete to take away someone's dream job, a job that many top-of-the-class Rhodes Scholars and their like would devote their entire professional lives to achieving. However, I won't work very hard to get it.
Seriously? A "secure career" in psych research, without putting in extra hours? What kind of crack are you using? I want some.
posted by ikkyu2 at 9:52 AM on December 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
I want to leave media roles behind me and move into clinical psychology, where ideally I’d like to combine hands-on work with patients with research and mental health advocacy.
I won’t put in the extra hours necessary to climb the ladder, but I would like a secure career, that pays an average income.
You are too wordy. Let me rephrase your statements:
I would like to compete to take away someone's dream job, a job that many top-of-the-class Rhodes Scholars and their like would devote their entire professional lives to achieving. However, I won't work very hard to get it.
Seriously? A "secure career" in psych research, without putting in extra hours? What kind of crack are you using? I want some.
posted by ikkyu2 at 9:52 AM on December 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Best answer: My mother graduated from the Fielding Institute a couple of years ago and is in the middle of the final hurdle of licensure (for being a psychotherapist) in her state (in the US). She just turned 62 years old, and she loves what she does.
That said, she also hasn't had children living in her home for over mumblemumbleyears. And we're talking psychotherapy, not clinical psychology.
You could stay where you are now, job-wise, focus on having a kid soon, and start going to school once they're going off to preschool every day. It may take a longer time for you to graduate, but you will still have MANY years of life left when you're done. Plus, think of the example you'd be teaching your children. 32 is way too young to be shutting doors.
posted by chowflap at 1:30 PM on December 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
That said, she also hasn't had children living in her home for over mumblemumbleyears. And we're talking psychotherapy, not clinical psychology.
You could stay where you are now, job-wise, focus on having a kid soon, and start going to school once they're going off to preschool every day. It may take a longer time for you to graduate, but you will still have MANY years of life left when you're done. Plus, think of the example you'd be teaching your children. 32 is way too young to be shutting doors.
posted by chowflap at 1:30 PM on December 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
Best answer: My mom completed a master's degree in psychology in her late 30s. Her grad school program was primarily an evening program, so my dad was responsible for us in the evenings while she was in class. She started the program when we were in elementary school and spent her days working part time and volunteering in related areas, as well as doing her homework.
In our state, with an MA in Psychology she was able to practice as a "Licensed Psychological Associate" which meant she was a clinical psychologist in the eyes of her clients and associates. She recently retired after 20+ years of work, first in a large group practice and for the past 12 or so in a solo practice where she set her own hours.
I don't know what licensing and degree options exist in Australia, but I doubt it is either a hard core psychological researcher or stay at home mom.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:50 PM on December 9, 2008
In our state, with an MA in Psychology she was able to practice as a "Licensed Psychological Associate" which meant she was a clinical psychologist in the eyes of her clients and associates. She recently retired after 20+ years of work, first in a large group practice and for the past 12 or so in a solo practice where she set her own hours.
I don't know what licensing and degree options exist in Australia, but I doubt it is either a hard core psychological researcher or stay at home mom.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:50 PM on December 9, 2008
I would like to compete to take away someone's dream job, a job that many top-of-the-class Rhodes Scholars and their like would devote their entire professional lives to achieving. However, I won't work very hard to get it.
You are not taking away someone's dream job. You are just going at it in a different way, under different conditions. There is no right and proper way to do it. We live in a world with much more variety than that.
Just really do your research beforehand, know what you are getting into, find a way to navigate it, and allow for things to go differently than planned sometimes. I would recommend taking it on like one takes on a new business venture, business plan included. Write it all up.
And take age out of the equation. Time and money are really going to be your issues that you need to work out.
posted by Vaike at 8:04 PM on December 9, 2008
You are not taking away someone's dream job. You are just going at it in a different way, under different conditions. There is no right and proper way to do it. We live in a world with much more variety than that.
Just really do your research beforehand, know what you are getting into, find a way to navigate it, and allow for things to go differently than planned sometimes. I would recommend taking it on like one takes on a new business venture, business plan included. Write it all up.
And take age out of the equation. Time and money are really going to be your issues that you need to work out.
posted by Vaike at 8:04 PM on December 9, 2008
People actually say that doing a Ph.D. and having a kid go together pretty well, particularly the dissertation stage. (However, the Ph.D. programs I'm familiar with are more book-research-and-writing than Clinical Psych, so this might not apply.)
posted by salvia at 10:38 PM on December 9, 2008
posted by salvia at 10:38 PM on December 9, 2008
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In 8 years, you will be 40 either way. Would you rather reach 40 with or without the accomplishment?
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 4:45 AM on December 9, 2008 [7 favorites]