Still queer, thanks for asking!
December 4, 2008 4:20 PM Subscribe
Family holidays: some help at navigating not-so-subtle gender cues?
Last year: I am dating an incredibly sweet Girl, funny, outgoing, very close to her family, enthusiastic about meeting mine. Me to my dad: “I’d like to bring X home for Thanksgiving!” My father: “You’re dating women!? You’re clearly doing this to hurt me. GAAAAHHHHH!” Cue three months of us not speaking, followed by an uneasy detente. My sexuality ceases to be an issue when Girl and I break up.
This year: I am dating an incredibly sweet, shy, and largely diffident Boy, who has little interest or desire in being integrated into my family holidays. My father: “Great! Is Y going to be joining us for Thanksgiving?” Y: “You want me to go where for Thanksgiving?” Me: Kind of awkward silence. Weeks pass. My father: (more pointedly) “You know, I’d really like to meet Y. I feel like I don’t really know him. You should invite him over.”
I pretty much don’t care one way or another about family holidays, but I’m annoyed at the really clear signals being sent by my dad — partly because I find myself having to replicate them for my partner. [“Um, my parents are having this dinner thing on November 24th. Do you want to come? Only if you want to, etc….”], and partly because they are so clearly conditional on the sex of said partner.
What's the best way to respond to these cues? Y and I are pretty much of the same mind on this, which is that 1) It sucks to be pressured, even if the cues are small and well-intentioned, and 2) Family social scenes are INVARIABLY gendered, and he (understandably) has little interest in being trotted out and celebrated as a suitable mate. [It also sucks to have your family openly refuse to accept your choice of partner, but that’s another story]
That said — this is not remotely a big deal. My dad’s not going to change. And his intentions (if slightly patriarchal) are not bad. The question is not so much “How do I get him to change?” but “How do I make this less stressful to myself and everyone involved?” I’d like to not spend the next holiday sitting alone and resenting everyone around me.
Thoughts?
Last year: I am dating an incredibly sweet Girl, funny, outgoing, very close to her family, enthusiastic about meeting mine. Me to my dad: “I’d like to bring X home for Thanksgiving!” My father: “You’re dating women!? You’re clearly doing this to hurt me. GAAAAHHHHH!” Cue three months of us not speaking, followed by an uneasy detente. My sexuality ceases to be an issue when Girl and I break up.
This year: I am dating an incredibly sweet, shy, and largely diffident Boy, who has little interest or desire in being integrated into my family holidays. My father: “Great! Is Y going to be joining us for Thanksgiving?” Y: “You want me to go where for Thanksgiving?” Me: Kind of awkward silence. Weeks pass. My father: (more pointedly) “You know, I’d really like to meet Y. I feel like I don’t really know him. You should invite him over.”
I pretty much don’t care one way or another about family holidays, but I’m annoyed at the really clear signals being sent by my dad — partly because I find myself having to replicate them for my partner. [“Um, my parents are having this dinner thing on November 24th. Do you want to come? Only if you want to, etc….”], and partly because they are so clearly conditional on the sex of said partner.
What's the best way to respond to these cues? Y and I are pretty much of the same mind on this, which is that 1) It sucks to be pressured, even if the cues are small and well-intentioned, and 2) Family social scenes are INVARIABLY gendered, and he (understandably) has little interest in being trotted out and celebrated as a suitable mate. [It also sucks to have your family openly refuse to accept your choice of partner, but that’s another story]
That said — this is not remotely a big deal. My dad’s not going to change. And his intentions (if slightly patriarchal) are not bad. The question is not so much “How do I get him to change?” but “How do I make this less stressful to myself and everyone involved?” I’d like to not spend the next holiday sitting alone and resenting everyone around me.
Thoughts?
Best answer: he (understandably) has little interest in being trotted out and celebrated as a suitable mate.
Isn't that an unavoidable, if ungenerously worded, aspect of introducing your partner to your family?
You need to decide what you want. You say it doesn't matter to you, but you also seem a little put out that your partner is disinterested, and you say you don't want to celebrate the holiday "alone," by which I take you to mean without your partner at your side.
So, my guess is, as you say, you're internalizing your dad's reticence about your free integration of your partners into the family. Don't do that. Be brave. Ask for what you need from your partner, and face your family the way you choose, together. That is, ultimately, the easiest way.
Trust the people who love you to forgive you the errors they perceive in you.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 4:50 PM on December 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
Isn't that an unavoidable, if ungenerously worded, aspect of introducing your partner to your family?
You need to decide what you want. You say it doesn't matter to you, but you also seem a little put out that your partner is disinterested, and you say you don't want to celebrate the holiday "alone," by which I take you to mean without your partner at your side.
So, my guess is, as you say, you're internalizing your dad's reticence about your free integration of your partners into the family. Don't do that. Be brave. Ask for what you need from your partner, and face your family the way you choose, together. That is, ultimately, the easiest way.
Trust the people who love you to forgive you the errors they perceive in you.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 4:50 PM on December 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
partly because I find myself having to replicate them for my partner.
You don't have to replicate them for your partner. You can ask once, and if he or she declines, you don't have to keep asking, even if your dad does. You can also tell your dad, "Hey, I appreciate that you're trying to include [Y] but he's decided not to come."
Also (and this may or may not be the best strategy) I sometimes just lie in situations like this. If you say, "Well, [Y] would love to come but he has to go to his own family Thanksgiving, which is far away" or "but he has to work that day" or some excuse that your dad can't really argue with.
posted by overglow at 4:56 PM on December 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
You don't have to replicate them for your partner. You can ask once, and if he or she declines, you don't have to keep asking, even if your dad does. You can also tell your dad, "Hey, I appreciate that you're trying to include [Y] but he's decided not to come."
Also (and this may or may not be the best strategy) I sometimes just lie in situations like this. If you say, "Well, [Y] would love to come but he has to go to his own family Thanksgiving, which is far away" or "but he has to work that day" or some excuse that your dad can't really argue with.
posted by overglow at 4:56 PM on December 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Think of it this way, IF you do sort of do want him to be with you, and begin to develop a happy relationship within your family, and you somehow don't let that happen, it will be punishing your father, your boyfriend and yourself for something that happened in the past. It's also a bit like involving your boyfriend in your old relationship. He deserves a clean slate, and you deserve to be happy, right now.
I know your sexuality isn't "in the past," but you don't win the War on Bigotry by disengaging with your opponent or by refusing their welcome. My point of view is, if you don't have to be fighting the Battle of the Bisexuality at this juncture, don't fight it. Express your feelings to your father directly, with words, not indirectly, with twisted emotional confusion and irrational action.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 5:04 PM on December 4, 2008 [4 favorites]
I know your sexuality isn't "in the past," but you don't win the War on Bigotry by disengaging with your opponent or by refusing their welcome. My point of view is, if you don't have to be fighting the Battle of the Bisexuality at this juncture, don't fight it. Express your feelings to your father directly, with words, not indirectly, with twisted emotional confusion and irrational action.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 5:04 PM on December 4, 2008 [4 favorites]
I'm not really...getting the connection between the gender issue and whether Y comes home with you for Thanksgiving.
I mean, I do, but I don't. Because your father's hangups about gender are a wildly different issue from whether you and Y feel it's time to introduce each other to each other's families yet. Mingling families and significant others is always a big hurdle, no matter what genders, races, species, etc. the people involved.
In short -- if you want to invite Y home for the holidays with you, do it because you want to, not because you want to shut your father up. And if your father wasn't a factor and you'd want him there, don't NOT invite him because you're afraid your father would get all weird.
And no matter what you do, you may want to inform your father -- kindly -- that Y's gender has little to do with the timing in your relationship, and that you will handle each of the milestones at your own pace, because surely Dad wouldn't want you to feel like you'd been pressured into anything by anybody, right, Dad?....
Good luck.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:38 PM on December 4, 2008
I mean, I do, but I don't. Because your father's hangups about gender are a wildly different issue from whether you and Y feel it's time to introduce each other to each other's families yet. Mingling families and significant others is always a big hurdle, no matter what genders, races, species, etc. the people involved.
In short -- if you want to invite Y home for the holidays with you, do it because you want to, not because you want to shut your father up. And if your father wasn't a factor and you'd want him there, don't NOT invite him because you're afraid your father would get all weird.
And no matter what you do, you may want to inform your father -- kindly -- that Y's gender has little to do with the timing in your relationship, and that you will handle each of the milestones at your own pace, because surely Dad wouldn't want you to feel like you'd been pressured into anything by anybody, right, Dad?....
Good luck.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:38 PM on December 4, 2008
Best answer: For even more clarity: my partner of 15 years was female for the first 5, male since then. Pre-transition, no invites, no birthday cards, etc. Post-transition: birthday cards arrive for him, he gets Xmas presents, is always invited to family events, is talked about to relations, and so on.
Yes, it's obvious and annoying. And I've been ambivalent about it all this time. I mean, on the one hand, it's great to be closer to my family, and to have my chosen family accepted by my bio family. On the other hand, the extent to which that is conditional on his gender can really grind my gears if I let it. But over time, I've gotten to a place where I can live with that tension pretty comfortably, accept that it's just what it is, just the best my family can do in their efforts to love me and mine as best they can.
I chose never to confront my parents directly about it, but I did once, a couple of years ago, gently tease my mother about it. She took it well.
So, I would say: be ready for some emotional ups and downs until you find your own equilibrium with this. Make this year's decision based on what you and Y prefer--do you want to be together? Is he ready to meet your family? You say Y isn't interested: just repeat that to your dad as often as needed. "Y won't be able to come, but I'm looking forward to seeing you." Repeat as needed. Try to enjoy yourself. Let it be.
posted by not that girl at 6:11 PM on December 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Yes, it's obvious and annoying. And I've been ambivalent about it all this time. I mean, on the one hand, it's great to be closer to my family, and to have my chosen family accepted by my bio family. On the other hand, the extent to which that is conditional on his gender can really grind my gears if I let it. But over time, I've gotten to a place where I can live with that tension pretty comfortably, accept that it's just what it is, just the best my family can do in their efforts to love me and mine as best they can.
I chose never to confront my parents directly about it, but I did once, a couple of years ago, gently tease my mother about it. She took it well.
So, I would say: be ready for some emotional ups and downs until you find your own equilibrium with this. Make this year's decision based on what you and Y prefer--do you want to be together? Is he ready to meet your family? You say Y isn't interested: just repeat that to your dad as often as needed. "Y won't be able to come, but I'm looking forward to seeing you." Repeat as needed. Try to enjoy yourself. Let it be.
posted by not that girl at 6:11 PM on December 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Some clarification -- sorry, I think the tone of this post was a bit off.
Salient points of information:
Y is not unfamiliar with my family - he's actually an old friend whom I've only recently started dating. So "home for the holidays" is kind of a relative thing.
That said, we've never hung out much at my house, mostly because it's just not that conducive to socializing (no good space -- kind of conservative milieu - lots of people) . PLus, people watch a lot of TV, and there's not much room. But the fact that he *already knows* my family makes it a bit weirder, I think, to have my parents wanting me to "introduce" him as my partner.
In coming out to my family last year, I didn't actually say "Hey! I want to bring X over for Thanksgiving!" I stressed that I really like X, that she'd really like to meet my family at some point, and that it would be nice -- once my dad had adjusted to this new thing -- if my home could be a welcoming space. I'm still a little bitter, obviously, and this makes me MUCH less willing to particpate in the song and dance that is expected, now that I'm back on the right side of the gender spectrum.
With my current partner, the issue isn't really him being averse to being at my house -- he just wants to be there when there isn't pressure. (which is pretty much none of the time, in my experience) Really, I just kind of want my home to be a welcoming place -- I really WANT it to be a place where I feel comfortable bringing friends and partners (whoever they happen to be).
This isn't currently how it works, and I don't really know how to articulate this without hurting people's feelings.
Like I said -- not a huge deal. But something I'd like to fix.
posted by puckish at 6:46 PM on December 4, 2008
Salient points of information:
Y is not unfamiliar with my family - he's actually an old friend whom I've only recently started dating. So "home for the holidays" is kind of a relative thing.
That said, we've never hung out much at my house, mostly because it's just not that conducive to socializing (no good space -- kind of conservative milieu - lots of people) . PLus, people watch a lot of TV, and there's not much room. But the fact that he *already knows* my family makes it a bit weirder, I think, to have my parents wanting me to "introduce" him as my partner.
In coming out to my family last year, I didn't actually say "Hey! I want to bring X over for Thanksgiving!" I stressed that I really like X, that she'd really like to meet my family at some point, and that it would be nice -- once my dad had adjusted to this new thing -- if my home could be a welcoming space. I'm still a little bitter, obviously, and this makes me MUCH less willing to particpate in the song and dance that is expected, now that I'm back on the right side of the gender spectrum.
With my current partner, the issue isn't really him being averse to being at my house -- he just wants to be there when there isn't pressure. (which is pretty much none of the time, in my experience) Really, I just kind of want my home to be a welcoming place -- I really WANT it to be a place where I feel comfortable bringing friends and partners (whoever they happen to be).
This isn't currently how it works, and I don't really know how to articulate this without hurting people's feelings.
Like I said -- not a huge deal. But something I'd like to fix.
posted by puckish at 6:46 PM on December 4, 2008
Best answer: Wanting home to be a welcoming place is kind of a huge deal.
What it sounds like to me is that your concerns are between you and your parents. Your partners, whatever gender they may be, are totally ancillary to this situation and it's almost unfair to involve them when it has clearly become a point of contention for you. If your new bf doesn't want to be at your house when there's pressure, and the pressure is continuing, then you're right - he doesn't need to be at your house. But it sounds like you might, because you're the only one who can clear the air between you and your parents and talk about your feelings.
And, if I can guess a little bit, it sounds like your feelings aren't so much about bigotry or politics. It sounds like your feelings are basically hurt that your parents put their ideas about gender ahead of their love for and acceptance of you. In other words, you might be feeling hurt that there was an implicit rejection of you in their response to a partner they didn't fully approve of. It doesn't sound like you really talked about it then or are talking about this now - and I think that's where the problem is located, in your relationship with your parents and your ability to get love and acceptance from them even when you don't fulfill their wishes - and not between partners and your parents.
It means there's work to do with your parents, and it means maybe asking them to see you and accept you as you are and talk to you directly when they have fears or worries about you and your love life.
posted by Miko at 7:44 PM on December 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
What it sounds like to me is that your concerns are between you and your parents. Your partners, whatever gender they may be, are totally ancillary to this situation and it's almost unfair to involve them when it has clearly become a point of contention for you. If your new bf doesn't want to be at your house when there's pressure, and the pressure is continuing, then you're right - he doesn't need to be at your house. But it sounds like you might, because you're the only one who can clear the air between you and your parents and talk about your feelings.
And, if I can guess a little bit, it sounds like your feelings aren't so much about bigotry or politics. It sounds like your feelings are basically hurt that your parents put their ideas about gender ahead of their love for and acceptance of you. In other words, you might be feeling hurt that there was an implicit rejection of you in their response to a partner they didn't fully approve of. It doesn't sound like you really talked about it then or are talking about this now - and I think that's where the problem is located, in your relationship with your parents and your ability to get love and acceptance from them even when you don't fulfill their wishes - and not between partners and your parents.
It means there's work to do with your parents, and it means maybe asking them to see you and accept you as you are and talk to you directly when they have fears or worries about you and your love life.
posted by Miko at 7:44 PM on December 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
There is a lot of good advice here. Thanks to you all.
posted by lilywing13 at 1:18 AM on December 5, 2008
posted by lilywing13 at 1:18 AM on December 5, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Acer_saccharum at 4:42 PM on December 4, 2008