Getting the dish on Florida.
November 6, 2008 5:17 AM Subscribe
Floridians, transplanted and native: What advice can you give to a potential snowbird about owning a house in your state?
After getting KO'd by a rare October Nor'easter, my thoughts are turning to the idea of spending the snowy winter months in Florida. Problem is, I've never been there. Acknowledging that I need to visit the state before I buy, what advice can you give me on:
-East coast versus West coast. Pluses and minuses?
-Steep drop in housing prices. Is now a good time to buy? Any ripe pickins in the foreclosure market?
-How do you cope with the anxieties and insurance costs related to hurricanes and flooding?
-If I became a buyer, I'd be looking for a home in a quiet rural neighborhood, possibly on water (an inlet or cove). What neighborhoods and towns fit the bill?
-All in all, what do you like and dislike about living in Florida? (I'll be mostly out of state during the humid summer months).
After getting KO'd by a rare October Nor'easter, my thoughts are turning to the idea of spending the snowy winter months in Florida. Problem is, I've never been there. Acknowledging that I need to visit the state before I buy, what advice can you give me on:
-East coast versus West coast. Pluses and minuses?
-Steep drop in housing prices. Is now a good time to buy? Any ripe pickins in the foreclosure market?
-How do you cope with the anxieties and insurance costs related to hurricanes and flooding?
-If I became a buyer, I'd be looking for a home in a quiet rural neighborhood, possibly on water (an inlet or cove). What neighborhoods and towns fit the bill?
-All in all, what do you like and dislike about living in Florida? (I'll be mostly out of state during the humid summer months).
Check out Nokomis (west coast) lots of water access, lots of housing available, & If you are smart you will homestead & save on taxes. 2004 was a fluke year for storms don't let them stop you. check out http://naca-nokomis.com/
posted by patnok at 6:43 AM on November 6, 2008
posted by patnok at 6:43 AM on November 6, 2008
Native here too, living in Maryland right now. I agree with pretty much everything saladin wrote, especially the bugs. If you haven't had the exciting experience of a giant cockroach flying right at your head, you will. Google "palmetto bugs" for more info. My parents live in South FL and they've always had on-off problems with ants.
You asked about east v. west coast. I prefer the beaches on the west coast. In my experience, the sand is soft and white (compared to yellow-ish and more coarse) and the Gulf is usually a bit warmer than the Atlantic. Also, you might have a better chance of finding the quiet rural place you're looking for. I went to college in Tallahassee and we would drive down to the beach on St. George Island, which is absolutely beautiful. For an example of some place you could live, Carabelle was one of the small towns we would drive through to get to St. George. I can't tell you much about it, other than they have a good mom & pop-type restaurant. And, apparently they have the world's smallest police station.
I've always loved summer in FL and the humidity never really bothered me. Sometimes I really miss living there (like in winter when I'm staring at snow and my mom tells me she was just in the pool). I don't have any immediate plans to go back, but I wouldn't be surprised if I end up back there.
posted by Nolechick11 at 7:19 AM on November 6, 2008
You asked about east v. west coast. I prefer the beaches on the west coast. In my experience, the sand is soft and white (compared to yellow-ish and more coarse) and the Gulf is usually a bit warmer than the Atlantic. Also, you might have a better chance of finding the quiet rural place you're looking for. I went to college in Tallahassee and we would drive down to the beach on St. George Island, which is absolutely beautiful. For an example of some place you could live, Carabelle was one of the small towns we would drive through to get to St. George. I can't tell you much about it, other than they have a good mom & pop-type restaurant. And, apparently they have the world's smallest police station.
I've always loved summer in FL and the humidity never really bothered me. Sometimes I really miss living there (like in winter when I'm staring at snow and my mom tells me she was just in the pool). I don't have any immediate plans to go back, but I wouldn't be surprised if I end up back there.
posted by Nolechick11 at 7:19 AM on November 6, 2008
I grew out outside of Tampa and in Gainesville. I hate Florida and go back there only when absolutely necessary. This also means that I haven't been south of I-4 in around 20 years, so I'll speak only about north Florida. This is still relevant to you because if you're looking for quiet, rural, on or near water you're probably thinking about the Gulf coast of north Florida or the panhandle.
Things I loathe about Florida:
*The whole place (north of I-4) just seems cheap, tawdry, and tired.
*Except for some small towns, the area is all new-built, anonymous suburbia without any character at all.
*The small towns in north and central Florida, which have the neat old victorians and the quaint little shops, can be terrifyingly conservative and racist. The sorts of little towns where people 50 and older don't just remember segregation, they remember when the town's unofficial motto was "The sun has never set on a live nigger in Town." Which isn't to say that there haven't been changes since then, but the changes are changes from a particularly venomous, nasty variety of racism.
*The government is an amazing clusterfuck. In no small part because such a big chunk of the state are retirees who don't give a fuck what happens to Florida so long as their property taxes don't go up -- when they think "local politics," they think "back home in Ohio," not "here where I live." K-12 education is generally very, very bad.
*Levels of pig-ignorance are high (see awful education).
*Outside of towns at least as big as Ocala or Gainesville, lots of really grinding poverty, which can be depressing when you have to see it day in and day out.
*I hated the weather, but then I live in Buffalo and love winter here.
Things that are okay:
*Good Cuban food.
*Good other Latino food, beyond Mexican.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:54 AM on November 6, 2008
Things I loathe about Florida:
*The whole place (north of I-4) just seems cheap, tawdry, and tired.
*Except for some small towns, the area is all new-built, anonymous suburbia without any character at all.
*The small towns in north and central Florida, which have the neat old victorians and the quaint little shops, can be terrifyingly conservative and racist. The sorts of little towns where people 50 and older don't just remember segregation, they remember when the town's unofficial motto was "The sun has never set on a live nigger in Town." Which isn't to say that there haven't been changes since then, but the changes are changes from a particularly venomous, nasty variety of racism.
*The government is an amazing clusterfuck. In no small part because such a big chunk of the state are retirees who don't give a fuck what happens to Florida so long as their property taxes don't go up -- when they think "local politics," they think "back home in Ohio," not "here where I live." K-12 education is generally very, very bad.
*Levels of pig-ignorance are high (see awful education).
*Outside of towns at least as big as Ocala or Gainesville, lots of really grinding poverty, which can be depressing when you have to see it day in and day out.
*I hated the weather, but then I live in Buffalo and love winter here.
Things that are okay:
*Good Cuban food.
*Good other Latino food, beyond Mexican.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:54 AM on November 6, 2008
Transplanted Midwesterner here, now in Tallahassee. I would definitely agree with pretty much what everyone wrote above. If you've never read anything by Carl Hiassen, do it now, he captures the weirdness of Florida (especially south Florida) pretty well.
To add on to what Nolechick11 mentioned, if you're possibly interested in the coast, definitely check out the gulf coast along the panhandle. North Florida is in many ways more like South Georgia (for good and bad) than the rest of Florida - its incredibly lush and beautiful, and I've heard its one of the more ecologically diverse places in the U.S. In addition to Carrabelle, Apalachicola is a beautiful little town on the water.
The heat/humidity in the panhandle can be crazy in the summer, but in the winter its usually wonderfully temperate and sunny most days.
Overall, the cost of living is relatively reasonable (no state income tax for residents), but people often complain about the property tax and homeowner's insurance costs. In my somewhat informed opinion, those insurance costs are likely to only get worse, as I've heard that they still are below actuarial estimates for risk.
Regardless of your political persuasions, you may want to look at the a county breakdown map for the recent election (here's one from the St. Pete Times). While we did go for Obama this past election, the map is still mostly red - and some of those red parts are *really* red. FWIW.
posted by dicaxpuella at 8:07 AM on November 6, 2008
To add on to what Nolechick11 mentioned, if you're possibly interested in the coast, definitely check out the gulf coast along the panhandle. North Florida is in many ways more like South Georgia (for good and bad) than the rest of Florida - its incredibly lush and beautiful, and I've heard its one of the more ecologically diverse places in the U.S. In addition to Carrabelle, Apalachicola is a beautiful little town on the water.
The heat/humidity in the panhandle can be crazy in the summer, but in the winter its usually wonderfully temperate and sunny most days.
Overall, the cost of living is relatively reasonable (no state income tax for residents), but people often complain about the property tax and homeowner's insurance costs. In my somewhat informed opinion, those insurance costs are likely to only get worse, as I've heard that they still are below actuarial estimates for risk.
Regardless of your political persuasions, you may want to look at the a county breakdown map for the recent election (here's one from the St. Pete Times). While we did go for Obama this past election, the map is still mostly red - and some of those red parts are *really* red. FWIW.
posted by dicaxpuella at 8:07 AM on November 6, 2008
Holy crap! I am a native Floridian and lived there until age 23, mostly on the southeast coast. I went to college in Gainesville. (Go Gators!)
I can't believe I just blissfully went about my business all those years with no idea that Florida was so "weird and dangerous" and thus I took no precautions whatsoever to prevent my dog from being snapped up by monitor lizards. Everything always seemed pretty normal to me. Still, I am starting to wonder if the reason I never noticed any of this is because I might be part of the "weird and dangerous" problem myself.*
Seriously, though, I still love Florida and visit often even though I haven't lived there in 20 years. My family is still there in the town I grew up in, in Palm Beach County. Admittedly they are pretty weird but they're harmless.
I live in Michigan now, which is also full of weird people, as were the other places I have lived, including Georgia, New Mexico, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and D.C. I think every place is quirky and weird, mostly because that is what happens to places when people live in them.
Gordion Knott, I would recommend the east coast, from Martin County north to Melbourne or even up to Cocoa Beach and Titusville. A lot of that is still pretty unspoiled and affordable. It's above (as in north of) the megalopolis of Palm Beach-Broward-Dade Counties but below Daytona Beach. Living right on the coast is pretty much not an option for most regular people, but you can go a little inland, and there is some beautiful old-school-Florida-type living to be done along the St. Lucie and Indian Rivers and northward.
*I love saladin's post. That's about the funniest, most affectionate portrait of my beloved home state I have ever read .
posted by isogloss at 8:41 AM on November 6, 2008
I can't believe I just blissfully went about my business all those years with no idea that Florida was so "weird and dangerous" and thus I took no precautions whatsoever to prevent my dog from being snapped up by monitor lizards. Everything always seemed pretty normal to me. Still, I am starting to wonder if the reason I never noticed any of this is because I might be part of the "weird and dangerous" problem myself.*
Seriously, though, I still love Florida and visit often even though I haven't lived there in 20 years. My family is still there in the town I grew up in, in Palm Beach County. Admittedly they are pretty weird but they're harmless.
I live in Michigan now, which is also full of weird people, as were the other places I have lived, including Georgia, New Mexico, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and D.C. I think every place is quirky and weird, mostly because that is what happens to places when people live in them.
Gordion Knott, I would recommend the east coast, from Martin County north to Melbourne or even up to Cocoa Beach and Titusville. A lot of that is still pretty unspoiled and affordable. It's above (as in north of) the megalopolis of Palm Beach-Broward-Dade Counties but below Daytona Beach. Living right on the coast is pretty much not an option for most regular people, but you can go a little inland, and there is some beautiful old-school-Florida-type living to be done along the St. Lucie and Indian Rivers and northward.
*I love saladin's post. That's about the funniest, most affectionate portrait of my beloved home state I have ever read .
posted by isogloss at 8:41 AM on November 6, 2008
Don't.
The last thing Florida needs is more northerners moving south, building a new stucco mcmansion in what was previously "unspoiled" forest (hint: it will then cease to be unspoiled), voting to rezone so a developer can build another goddamned strip mall that you won't patronize for the 6 months of the year that you're gone, complaining about the Latinos, contributing nothing to the local culture, and resisting efforts to improve things for anyone who won't die in the next 10 years.
But if you insist, be prepared for actual Floridians to resent you.
Gah.
posted by TheNewWazoo at 9:06 AM on November 6, 2008
The last thing Florida needs is more northerners moving south, building a new stucco mcmansion in what was previously "unspoiled" forest (hint: it will then cease to be unspoiled), voting to rezone so a developer can build another goddamned strip mall that you won't patronize for the 6 months of the year that you're gone, complaining about the Latinos, contributing nothing to the local culture, and resisting efforts to improve things for anyone who won't die in the next 10 years.
But if you insist, be prepared for actual Floridians to resent you.
Gah.
posted by TheNewWazoo at 9:06 AM on November 6, 2008
If you move to Florida, please try to adjust to the way things are there. Please don't try to change it into wherever you came... seems to defeat the purpose of the move.
Now having said that, I'd recommend the Panhandle area (Tallahassee >> Pensacola). It's still a slower pace but the population is on the rise.
One recommendation would be to Google-fest on four to six potential locations, request new-mover packets, and see what happens. Next step is to pare that down to just a couple or three locations and order a 3-month Sunday-only subscription to the major local newspaper. You can tell a lot by what gets in the paper, what seems important to the locals, and learn about the local infrastructure. And also you'd get the local real estate listing to get a grip on property costs and availability.
Good Luck
SandPine
posted by sandpine at 9:15 AM on November 6, 2008
Now having said that, I'd recommend the Panhandle area (Tallahassee >> Pensacola). It's still a slower pace but the population is on the rise.
One recommendation would be to Google-fest on four to six potential locations, request new-mover packets, and see what happens. Next step is to pare that down to just a couple or three locations and order a 3-month Sunday-only subscription to the major local newspaper. You can tell a lot by what gets in the paper, what seems important to the locals, and learn about the local infrastructure. And also you'd get the local real estate listing to get a grip on property costs and availability.
Good Luck
SandPine
posted by sandpine at 9:15 AM on November 6, 2008
I've been in Tampa for eight years now. It's been tolerable, mostly. I will tell you that keeping up a home in Florida is MUCH more difficult than those homes we owned in the Pacific Northwest. Landscape maintenance alone is a full-time job. And the elements just seem to be so hard on houses. IMHO.
posted by unclejeffy at 10:11 AM on November 6, 2008
posted by unclejeffy at 10:11 AM on November 6, 2008
I was born in Tallahassee and lived there 18+ years; my parents still live there and I go home frequently. Honestly, I love North Florida but previous posters give a pretty accurate summary of the state. It's weird. Carl Hiassen captures this well, as dicaxpuella noted. North Florida can be incredibly backwards, especially in the small towns--my "favorite" example of this is a truck I used to see in Panacea that had a hand-painted sign on it that said "Nuke the Towel Heads". (On a lighter note, there was also a road sign advertising that you could "Tan at the B.P.!" As in, the gas station.) So yeah, Carrabelle and Apalachicola are quaint but there is a pretty rotten underbelly that, in my opinion, does not seem to be going away.
If you are interested in northern Florida I think the cities (Tallahassee, Gainsville) are fairly liberal-leaning and more socially progressive, if that is important to you. If you want to get really political, check out one of those electoral maps that all the news sites have up from Tuesdays elections--they can give you a good feel for blue vs. red counties.
Another thing nobody has mentioned is that the Panhandle area is not actually that warm in the winter--certainly it is warmer than the northeast, but they do get freezing overnight temperatures several times a year. If you're thinking about wintertime swimming in the ocean, or golfing in shorts, you may want to look further south.
Get used to bugs. Big ones, many-legged ones, poisonous ones, horrible crawlies of all shapes and sizes. It doesn't matter how clean your house is, you will need to have the exterminator come on a 1 or 2 month schedule. And avoid opening your mouth too wide when outdoors.
Oh and as for beaches--West Coast all the way! I love the Gulf beaches. So warm and calm...
posted by Jemstar at 10:29 AM on November 6, 2008
If you are interested in northern Florida I think the cities (Tallahassee, Gainsville) are fairly liberal-leaning and more socially progressive, if that is important to you. If you want to get really political, check out one of those electoral maps that all the news sites have up from Tuesdays elections--they can give you a good feel for blue vs. red counties.
Another thing nobody has mentioned is that the Panhandle area is not actually that warm in the winter--certainly it is warmer than the northeast, but they do get freezing overnight temperatures several times a year. If you're thinking about wintertime swimming in the ocean, or golfing in shorts, you may want to look further south.
Get used to bugs. Big ones, many-legged ones, poisonous ones, horrible crawlies of all shapes and sizes. It doesn't matter how clean your house is, you will need to have the exterminator come on a 1 or 2 month schedule. And avoid opening your mouth too wide when outdoors.
Oh and as for beaches--West Coast all the way! I love the Gulf beaches. So warm and calm...
posted by Jemstar at 10:29 AM on November 6, 2008
The only thing I have to recommend about houses in Florida, is don't buy one with wood siding/exterior. One of my friends growing up moved to Florida and her parents bought the only house in the neighborhood that wasn't stucco (or whatever the other houses are made of). After enduring all variety of termite problems, they now understand why wooden houses are so few and far between.
posted by gueneverey at 3:48 PM on November 6, 2008
posted by gueneverey at 3:48 PM on November 6, 2008
One of the important facts to remember is that Florida is very large. Living in Pensacola (where I live) is a completely different Florida than living in Miami. I can drive to Miami in 10 hours, or to D.C. in a little over 12. I'm constantly asked by outsiders if I go to Disney World all the time, not realizing it's 7 hours away.
I could complain about Florida for hours, but I still love it. It is a crazy place, as Saladin already said, but I find it wonderfully messy. On the right day in the right place it can be gorgeous. Yes, it can be conservative (at least in the Panhandle), but it has little effect on my life, and it's pretty easy to fine people with your lifestyle.
You're going to hear from a lot of people that hate florida, for many reasons. That's good. It's crowded enough as is. ROU_Xenophobe hates Florida, and lives in Buffalo. You couldn't pay me to live in Buffalo. We all have our opinions. But for an unbiased opinion, a good over view, Saladin's comment is pretty accurate.
The only thing I have to recommend about houses in Florida, is don't buy one with wood siding/exterior. One of my friends growing up moved to Florida and her parents bought the only house in the neighborhood that wasn't stucco (or whatever the other houses are made of). After enduring all variety of termite problems, they now understand why wooden houses are so few and far between.
posted by gueneverey
Lived in 4 wood houses my entire life in Florida, never had a a single problem with termites. Again, it's too big a place to make such generalizations.
posted by justgary at 7:11 PM on November 6, 2008
I could complain about Florida for hours, but I still love it. It is a crazy place, as Saladin already said, but I find it wonderfully messy. On the right day in the right place it can be gorgeous. Yes, it can be conservative (at least in the Panhandle), but it has little effect on my life, and it's pretty easy to fine people with your lifestyle.
You're going to hear from a lot of people that hate florida, for many reasons. That's good. It's crowded enough as is. ROU_Xenophobe hates Florida, and lives in Buffalo. You couldn't pay me to live in Buffalo. We all have our opinions. But for an unbiased opinion, a good over view, Saladin's comment is pretty accurate.
The only thing I have to recommend about houses in Florida, is don't buy one with wood siding/exterior. One of my friends growing up moved to Florida and her parents bought the only house in the neighborhood that wasn't stucco (or whatever the other houses are made of). After enduring all variety of termite problems, they now understand why wooden houses are so few and far between.
posted by gueneverey
Lived in 4 wood houses my entire life in Florida, never had a a single problem with termites. Again, it's too big a place to make such generalizations.
posted by justgary at 7:11 PM on November 6, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
I say this as someone who thinks that Florida is far and away the greatest place you could ever hope to live in the United States: Florida is a weird, dangerous and occasionally unpleasant state. It's a lot weirder and a lot more dangerous than most non-Floridians give it credit for. The weirdness is hard to explain; a lot of it has to do with the truly insane mix of people that the state attracts and produces. Chris Cooper's character in "Adaptation" was an excellent approximation of the archetypal Floridian, if that makes any sense. The state is an amalgam of rednecks, soldiers, spring-breakers, drifters, Canadian snowbirds, retirees, Cubans, Jews from Long Island, disenfranchised black Democrats, sex offenders, foreign tourists, Alabamians, alcoholics, farmers, real estate moguls, goth kids, Evangelicals and some spectacular white trash. It's nuts, and it's not for everyone, especially come election season.
It's the dangerousness and the unpleasantness that no one ever seems to consider. Florida is the lightning death capital of the world and the shark-bite capital of the world. The state is infested with deadly reptiles; poisonous snakes and alligators are present in nearly every body of fresh water. We even have non-native monitor lizards that eat people's pets from time to time. The weather is bonkers; cataclysmic lightning storms appear out of nowhere, sometimes dropping tornadoes in their paths. Even glancing blows from hurricanes will tear your shingles off every couple of years. Driving in Florida is a nightmare; lost tourists cutting off three lanes of traffic so as not to miss their exits, the elderly driving 20 miles an hour under the speed limit in the left lane, drug-addled club kids doing 120 on I-4. Do you like bugs? You'd better, because they're everywhere, and you're never going to be able to fully insulate yourself from them. You WILL have cockroaches in your house (especially if it's an older house, and especially if you're anywhere south of Orlando), you WILL get mauled by mosquitoes and horseflies, and you WILL have spider infestations in your yard.
That said, there are obviously tons of positives. There are many areas of the state that are astonishingly beautiful. Everyone tends to be fairly laid back and friendly. It never snows. In most of the state, it's not really taboo to go to the grocery store with no shoes or shirt on. People tend to mind their own business. Fresh seafood abounds, as does barbecue (at least in the Northeast and Panhandle) and great Southern food. The cost of living is pretty low. The beaches are wonderful. I could go on and on.
If none of that deters you (or if it actually appeals to you, as it does to me), then you might be one of those rare humans that really and truly belongs in Florida. I'd be happy to pontificate further if you're interested; my email's in my profile.
posted by saladin at 6:22 AM on November 6, 2008 [4 favorites]