It wasn't real, so why does it matter?
November 3, 2008 3:02 PM Subscribe
Why would I get all obsessy about someone I never met?
I had an "internet friendship" with a man I never met. We corresponded for over ten years, from the time I was a teenager until a year or two ago, when I finally cut it off for good.
During that entire time, I had a long-term, real-life relationship with another man, whom I married.
The internet friend was charming, funny, intelligent, but never treated me particularly well. I was stupidly head-over-heels for him, but I always had this sense that he could not be trusted, and this would explain why our relationship never moved into reality, though it came close at times. He used subtle put-downs that I couldn't quite put my finger on until later, kept up what seemed like many very flirty friendships with other women, was flaky about keeping in regular touch, yet when I sought to end our correspondence (on several occasions, because I felt guilty and knew it was wrong, and it made my life miserable) he would throw an absolute fit, and howl about how we were the best of friends, he would miss me like hell, and how I would inevitably go back to talking with him anyway, as if it were fated. I was too weak, and too susceptible to his guilt-tripping (ridiculous, I know, over the internet) to stay the course for any length of time. So, I basically fell for all this bullshit and fulfilled his narcissistic little prophecy by renewing our correspondence repeatedly.
But I never understood it -- from all his actions, he didn't give a damn about me, but he always professed to with his words. He claimed on several occasions to be in love with me, to believe I was the person he was "meant" to be with (but real life doesn't always work out that way, and how bittersweet, we must always remain friends, our lives would only be emptier without each other, etc.) but never did he make any actual moves toward anything real, though I (yes, stupidly) was on the brink of leaving my husband for him at one point.
He eventually married someone else, and I felt really wrong (though it had been wrong the entire time, of course) to continue corresponding -- but he still got very upset when I made the move to cut him off.
However, eventually, I did manage to just let the thing die, and I'm proud of myself for keeping entirely out of contact with him for well over a year. He has even attempted to contact me via a website of mine that I never told him about, but I completely ignored him.
What bothers me is, well, what the fuck is wrong with me that I would continue such a pathetic farce for so long, and become so sentimental about it when my gut was continually telling me there was nothing of substance there? It was possibly the longest case of limerence in recorded history. (I have had mental illness since childhood, and a lot of insecurity about my appearance and intelligence, so I have an inkling, at least, where my vulnerabilities lie. But seriously. I was a bad person and an idiot throughout this whole scenario.)
And second, I often wonder why he so stringently insisted on maintaining a "friendship" with someone he treated like crap, even long-distance. The only things I really know about his background is that he was likely verbally abused a lot as a child, and seemed arrogant to the point of narcissism as an adult. (Of course, this does not constitute a diagnosis, and it could have all been made up anyway.)
I never, ever met this person. As far as I know, everything he ever told me was a lie, and his personality might've been a fabrication to boot. So why do I still think about this? Why does it still bother me? What were his motivations for stringing me along? What is so fucked up in me that I went along with it? And what can I do to heal from this strangely traumatic period in my life that is now, thankfully, over?
(I'm 29 and female, by the way. And also, on preview, a complete douche.)
I had an "internet friendship" with a man I never met. We corresponded for over ten years, from the time I was a teenager until a year or two ago, when I finally cut it off for good.
During that entire time, I had a long-term, real-life relationship with another man, whom I married.
The internet friend was charming, funny, intelligent, but never treated me particularly well. I was stupidly head-over-heels for him, but I always had this sense that he could not be trusted, and this would explain why our relationship never moved into reality, though it came close at times. He used subtle put-downs that I couldn't quite put my finger on until later, kept up what seemed like many very flirty friendships with other women, was flaky about keeping in regular touch, yet when I sought to end our correspondence (on several occasions, because I felt guilty and knew it was wrong, and it made my life miserable) he would throw an absolute fit, and howl about how we were the best of friends, he would miss me like hell, and how I would inevitably go back to talking with him anyway, as if it were fated. I was too weak, and too susceptible to his guilt-tripping (ridiculous, I know, over the internet) to stay the course for any length of time. So, I basically fell for all this bullshit and fulfilled his narcissistic little prophecy by renewing our correspondence repeatedly.
But I never understood it -- from all his actions, he didn't give a damn about me, but he always professed to with his words. He claimed on several occasions to be in love with me, to believe I was the person he was "meant" to be with (but real life doesn't always work out that way, and how bittersweet, we must always remain friends, our lives would only be emptier without each other, etc.) but never did he make any actual moves toward anything real, though I (yes, stupidly) was on the brink of leaving my husband for him at one point.
He eventually married someone else, and I felt really wrong (though it had been wrong the entire time, of course) to continue corresponding -- but he still got very upset when I made the move to cut him off.
However, eventually, I did manage to just let the thing die, and I'm proud of myself for keeping entirely out of contact with him for well over a year. He has even attempted to contact me via a website of mine that I never told him about, but I completely ignored him.
What bothers me is, well, what the fuck is wrong with me that I would continue such a pathetic farce for so long, and become so sentimental about it when my gut was continually telling me there was nothing of substance there? It was possibly the longest case of limerence in recorded history. (I have had mental illness since childhood, and a lot of insecurity about my appearance and intelligence, so I have an inkling, at least, where my vulnerabilities lie. But seriously. I was a bad person and an idiot throughout this whole scenario.)
And second, I often wonder why he so stringently insisted on maintaining a "friendship" with someone he treated like crap, even long-distance. The only things I really know about his background is that he was likely verbally abused a lot as a child, and seemed arrogant to the point of narcissism as an adult. (Of course, this does not constitute a diagnosis, and it could have all been made up anyway.)
I never, ever met this person. As far as I know, everything he ever told me was a lie, and his personality might've been a fabrication to boot. So why do I still think about this? Why does it still bother me? What were his motivations for stringing me along? What is so fucked up in me that I went along with it? And what can I do to heal from this strangely traumatic period in my life that is now, thankfully, over?
(I'm 29 and female, by the way. And also, on preview, a complete douche.)
Along with the Internet come new species of betrayal and heartbreak that we haven't come up with names for yet, but you are definitely not the first to experience something like this. I know I have. But check out this mindblowing story from the L.A. Weekly a couple years back about Internet emotional entanglement--it's your basic story of girl-meets-guy-who-doesn't-exist.
posted by Kirklander at 3:24 PM on November 3, 2008 [7 favorites]
posted by Kirklander at 3:24 PM on November 3, 2008 [7 favorites]
So why do I still think about this? Why does it still bother me?
Because it's unresolved. You can't figure out why you spent so much time on this person who didn't treat you well. My guess, after being in somewhat similar situations: his attention was (imperfectly) filling a void in your life. Low self-esteem leads to taking attention wherever one can get it. Now you're lacking the attention, so it's like coming off an addiction. I would treat it like an addiction - look up "relationship addiction" or "love addiction" online and see if it resonates with you. Here is a list of common symptoms. Also, you sound codependent. Recovery from these things takes awhile and usually involves therapy. It also involves being gentle with yourself. You can't change the past; there is no use beating yourself up for what happened.
Finally, it doesn't matter that you never met. It still brought up real emotions for you, and real consequences.
posted by desjardins at 3:38 PM on November 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Because it's unresolved. You can't figure out why you spent so much time on this person who didn't treat you well. My guess, after being in somewhat similar situations: his attention was (imperfectly) filling a void in your life. Low self-esteem leads to taking attention wherever one can get it. Now you're lacking the attention, so it's like coming off an addiction. I would treat it like an addiction - look up "relationship addiction" or "love addiction" online and see if it resonates with you. Here is a list of common symptoms. Also, you sound codependent. Recovery from these things takes awhile and usually involves therapy. It also involves being gentle with yourself. You can't change the past; there is no use beating yourself up for what happened.
Finally, it doesn't matter that you never met. It still brought up real emotions for you, and real consequences.
posted by desjardins at 3:38 PM on November 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Congratulate yourself, though, that you retained enough sense never to meet him in person, not to send him money, to cut it off--in short not to make any really damaging mistakes. We have all had lapses in judgment, even years-long lapses in judgment. Don't beat yourself up.
posted by LarryC at 3:43 PM on November 3, 2008
posted by LarryC at 3:43 PM on November 3, 2008
Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's not real.
Many, many people have formed strong emotional attachments to others via the internet. It's an easy thing to do - without the 'distractions' if you will of everyday life, people open up (or pretend to) much faster. It's not any more 'ridiculous' to be susceptible to guilt tripping on the internet, and you might do yourself a kindness by remembering that the internet is not something that exists in some vacuum entirely seperate from 'real life'. I don't believe there's anything wrong with you at all, and to think that you're 'fucked up' because of this is to say that anybody who has ever been fooled by another person (that's every person ever to have lived, if you weren't sure) is fucked up. And I'd say from your description he was the one who was fucked up, not you. And of course you're still thinking about it - 10 years is a long time and a lot of feelings. Even on the internet. I
As for what his motivation was, I concur with Solon and Thanks: power.
posted by narrativium at 3:45 PM on November 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
Many, many people have formed strong emotional attachments to others via the internet. It's an easy thing to do - without the 'distractions' if you will of everyday life, people open up (or pretend to) much faster. It's not any more 'ridiculous' to be susceptible to guilt tripping on the internet, and you might do yourself a kindness by remembering that the internet is not something that exists in some vacuum entirely seperate from 'real life'. I don't believe there's anything wrong with you at all, and to think that you're 'fucked up' because of this is to say that anybody who has ever been fooled by another person (that's every person ever to have lived, if you weren't sure) is fucked up. And I'd say from your description he was the one who was fucked up, not you. And of course you're still thinking about it - 10 years is a long time and a lot of feelings. Even on the internet. I
As for what his motivation was, I concur with Solon and Thanks: power.
posted by narrativium at 3:45 PM on November 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
Perhaps you maintained it so long because you wanted to work out your feelings about that sort of relationship in a controlled environment.
The internet is often a place where people express aspects of themselves that they aren't comfortable with in off-line life. That includes a chance to be vulnerable in way that we never would allow in person.
posted by tkolar at 3:55 PM on November 3, 2008
The internet is often a place where people express aspects of themselves that they aren't comfortable with in off-line life. That includes a chance to be vulnerable in way that we never would allow in person.
posted by tkolar at 3:55 PM on November 3, 2008
Fantasy is tremendously compelling. Online, this guy had no faults. He never farted or smelled badly or embarrassed you in front of friends. 'Real life' people make mistakes and do all sorts of inconvenient things that the fantasy dude never does.
Even though you were communicating with a real person it was still fanstasy on your part. You could insert whatever expectations and emotions you wanted.
Keep the fantasy if you like but treat it as that.
posted by trinity8-director at 4:12 PM on November 3, 2008
Even though you were communicating with a real person it was still fanstasy on your part. You could insert whatever expectations and emotions you wanted.
Keep the fantasy if you like but treat it as that.
posted by trinity8-director at 4:12 PM on November 3, 2008
Therapy. Please, see a therapist and discuss this, to reach the resolution you seek.
posted by exphysicist345 at 4:31 PM on November 3, 2008
posted by exphysicist345 at 4:31 PM on November 3, 2008
Man, if I didn't know better (and actually, I don't), I would think we'd been chatting with the same guy. Believe me when I say you were lucky to get away without more drama than you already had ~ I met mine in person, STILL didn't get the closure that I felt that I needed, and ended up feeling really bad about myself for almost 2 years after.
It's very likely that this guy you're talking about is a sociopath. I know that sounds harsh and I'll probably get beat up for saying it, but there are some very telling signs.
Regardless, time and distance will help. You'll gain perspective, and start seeing things in hindsight that you might have missed. This situation doesn't mean that something is wrong with you...despite the crappy things he said, you were getting something you needed from him at the time. You no longer need him.
posted by kattyann at 4:43 PM on November 3, 2008
It's very likely that this guy you're talking about is a sociopath. I know that sounds harsh and I'll probably get beat up for saying it, but there are some very telling signs.
Regardless, time and distance will help. You'll gain perspective, and start seeing things in hindsight that you might have missed. This situation doesn't mean that something is wrong with you...despite the crappy things he said, you were getting something you needed from him at the time. You no longer need him.
posted by kattyann at 4:43 PM on November 3, 2008
As you very aptly pointed out, you feel poorly about yourself and that made you vulnerable to letting him bully you. He probably did it because it made him feel good. If you stopped talking to him, he didn't get to feel like he was superior to someone, and that someone liked him so well that they'd put up with his bullshit.
The way to healing is probably finding a friend or therapist you can confide in and working on your self-esteem issues. Feel free to MeMail me for more info---I used to feel pretty badly about how I look and I don't very much anymore, so I might have some pointers.
It's a really positive thing that you've pulled away and that you can see the situation for what it was. Good for you!
posted by lacedback at 4:50 PM on November 3, 2008
The way to healing is probably finding a friend or therapist you can confide in and working on your self-esteem issues. Feel free to MeMail me for more info---I used to feel pretty badly about how I look and I don't very much anymore, so I might have some pointers.
It's a really positive thing that you've pulled away and that you can see the situation for what it was. Good for you!
posted by lacedback at 4:50 PM on November 3, 2008
Why would I get all obsessy about someone I never met?
The simple answer to that question is that any relationship can be great as long as it is only hypothetical, in your mind.
The real world is a lot messier & fraught with compromises, and to be honest, day-to-day life is generally kinda banal - doing the shopping, cleaning the house, going to work, getting sick, all that stuff.
Thus, you can easily obsess over people you don't actually know in real life, because you never have to put the situation to the test by, well, actually interacting in gritty, concrete, daily reality.
This phenomenon could become stronger, too, if you're comparing this abstracted internet dude with your flesh-and-blood partner. Your partner might do all these things that annoy you in niggling ways (leaving his socks lying about, not cleaning the toilet, whatever) at the same time as you have this talkative, flirtatious relationship going on with a guy who - by definition - cannot even be in a position to annoy you in those everyday ways.
Understanding that kind of abstract-real life tension might help in some ways for you to work out what was going on. Lack of closure, as others have mentioned, might also be a problem, but they've already covered that, so I won't address that at length.
But overall, if you want to feel like less of a douche, I'm always of the opinion that there's no point in feeling regret over silly relationships or decisions in the past. You make choices at the time based on your best understanding of a situation, and according to what you perceive to be best for you. In other words, you do what works for you at the time, even though in hindsight you might realise that you weren't thinking as clearly as you are now.
Be grateful for your current wisdom then, instead of beating yourself up for having been a bit of a fool in the past.
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:01 PM on November 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
The simple answer to that question is that any relationship can be great as long as it is only hypothetical, in your mind.
The real world is a lot messier & fraught with compromises, and to be honest, day-to-day life is generally kinda banal - doing the shopping, cleaning the house, going to work, getting sick, all that stuff.
Thus, you can easily obsess over people you don't actually know in real life, because you never have to put the situation to the test by, well, actually interacting in gritty, concrete, daily reality.
This phenomenon could become stronger, too, if you're comparing this abstracted internet dude with your flesh-and-blood partner. Your partner might do all these things that annoy you in niggling ways (leaving his socks lying about, not cleaning the toilet, whatever) at the same time as you have this talkative, flirtatious relationship going on with a guy who - by definition - cannot even be in a position to annoy you in those everyday ways.
Understanding that kind of abstract-real life tension might help in some ways for you to work out what was going on. Lack of closure, as others have mentioned, might also be a problem, but they've already covered that, so I won't address that at length.
But overall, if you want to feel like less of a douche, I'm always of the opinion that there's no point in feeling regret over silly relationships or decisions in the past. You make choices at the time based on your best understanding of a situation, and according to what you perceive to be best for you. In other words, you do what works for you at the time, even though in hindsight you might realise that you weren't thinking as clearly as you are now.
Be grateful for your current wisdom then, instead of beating yourself up for having been a bit of a fool in the past.
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:01 PM on November 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
It might help to stop beating yourself up over this. You mention multiple times in your question that you are/were a "bad person." You're not. You made a mistake, you got a little mixed up, but in the end you did the right thing. You cut off the guy who was abusing you and stayed with your husband who, presumably, loves you and treats you right. That's not the kind of thing a bad person does, so the first thing to do is stop telling yourself you're a bad person.
Therapy may help with this.
posted by owtytrof at 9:14 AM on November 4, 2008
Therapy may help with this.
posted by owtytrof at 9:14 AM on November 4, 2008
Oh, girlfriend, you and I could have a long, long talk over a bottle of wine.
In my case, I met him, but nine months after I finally cut it off, he kept stringing me along through most of the techniques you outline above. It ended when I met someone else, and told him I did.
I still keep an eye on him, though.
My obsessiveness is due to the fact that I want him to experience pain over what he put me through. I know it will never happen.
The internet definitely creates situations that would have been unheard of years ago. But not dissimilar. My dude is definitely manipulative. there is a pattern in his behavior, in how he creates friendships, in how he approaches people.
Again, the word "sociopath" in a mild sense is not entirely inappropriate. No matter how smart you are, you can easily be defenseless against people like that.
I know he still reads my various online websites since he lives in a small town where it would be improbable that I would have another reader. And even then, he's doing it in the middle of the night where he thinks that 1) i won't see it or 2) i will DEFINITELY see it. I'm still not sure which.
Finding a therapist to discuss this with is going to be tough as the person you choose is going to have to, HAVE TO, understand the internet, or be incredibly intelligent so that you can explain things to them and have them get them right away. If they don't get the internet it will be fruitless.
Time is going to make this go away. That's all. Time and distance.
me-mail me if you want to let off any more steam.
posted by micawber at 11:52 AM on November 4, 2008
In my case, I met him, but nine months after I finally cut it off, he kept stringing me along through most of the techniques you outline above. It ended when I met someone else, and told him I did.
I still keep an eye on him, though.
My obsessiveness is due to the fact that I want him to experience pain over what he put me through. I know it will never happen.
The internet definitely creates situations that would have been unheard of years ago. But not dissimilar. My dude is definitely manipulative. there is a pattern in his behavior, in how he creates friendships, in how he approaches people.
Again, the word "sociopath" in a mild sense is not entirely inappropriate. No matter how smart you are, you can easily be defenseless against people like that.
I know he still reads my various online websites since he lives in a small town where it would be improbable that I would have another reader. And even then, he's doing it in the middle of the night where he thinks that 1) i won't see it or 2) i will DEFINITELY see it. I'm still not sure which.
Finding a therapist to discuss this with is going to be tough as the person you choose is going to have to, HAVE TO, understand the internet, or be incredibly intelligent so that you can explain things to them and have them get them right away. If they don't get the internet it will be fruitless.
Time is going to make this go away. That's all. Time and distance.
me-mail me if you want to let off any more steam.
posted by micawber at 11:52 AM on November 4, 2008
Popped back in with some further thoughts...
I find this topic quite interesting, because I think it's something we're likely to see more of over the years, as society comes to grips with increased electronic communication. I also think that we aren't even close to forming a conceptual model for largely or purely electronic "relationships" - note how everybody here seems to take it as a default assumption that the electronic communications should have transferred to flesh & blood interaction...
Anyway, leaving aside the guy's apparent manipulativeness (I actually think he just sounds more immature than anything else) here's a quick list of ideas about why these kinds of electronic relationships can work the way that they do:
* like I said earlier, they're not subject to the usual day-to-day humdrum of life.
* they're decoupled, meaning that there's any amount of time between sending something & receiving a reply. this allows the interlocutors to mull things over, shape their thoughts, and reply intelligently, leading to a higher standard of conversation. this applies, say, to MeFi as well, and can make everyday conversations seem a bit lame in comparison (see the first bullet point).
* lack of physical presence means can lead to more intimate revelations, at the exact same time as that kind of intimacy is defused by the electronic medium of communication. ie - it's "safer", and also in the sense that people can tell themselves that they're not emotionally cheating or getting too emotionally involved, because it's only an e-friendship. there's a kind of "coldness" to electronic communications that counteracts & enables the tendency to over-reveal.
* lack of physical presence can also lead to misunderstandings, eg misreading irony, tongue-in-cheek speech, and a whole host of other chinese-whispers effects. not to mention moodiness, intoxication etc.
* i believe there's a definite kind of psychological addictiveness around checking your inbox (or whatever) and randomly either finding or not finding a message. no time to go into detail, but if you search for "Skinner" under my profile, i've written about this at length at least a few times before.
I had a couple of other points, but I can't remember them just now. Hope this helps to give you something to digest.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:14 PM on November 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
I find this topic quite interesting, because I think it's something we're likely to see more of over the years, as society comes to grips with increased electronic communication. I also think that we aren't even close to forming a conceptual model for largely or purely electronic "relationships" - note how everybody here seems to take it as a default assumption that the electronic communications should have transferred to flesh & blood interaction...
Anyway, leaving aside the guy's apparent manipulativeness (I actually think he just sounds more immature than anything else) here's a quick list of ideas about why these kinds of electronic relationships can work the way that they do:
* like I said earlier, they're not subject to the usual day-to-day humdrum of life.
* they're decoupled, meaning that there's any amount of time between sending something & receiving a reply. this allows the interlocutors to mull things over, shape their thoughts, and reply intelligently, leading to a higher standard of conversation. this applies, say, to MeFi as well, and can make everyday conversations seem a bit lame in comparison (see the first bullet point).
* lack of physical presence means can lead to more intimate revelations, at the exact same time as that kind of intimacy is defused by the electronic medium of communication. ie - it's "safer", and also in the sense that people can tell themselves that they're not emotionally cheating or getting too emotionally involved, because it's only an e-friendship. there's a kind of "coldness" to electronic communications that counteracts & enables the tendency to over-reveal.
* lack of physical presence can also lead to misunderstandings, eg misreading irony, tongue-in-cheek speech, and a whole host of other chinese-whispers effects. not to mention moodiness, intoxication etc.
* i believe there's a definite kind of psychological addictiveness around checking your inbox (or whatever) and randomly either finding or not finding a message. no time to go into detail, but if you search for "Skinner" under my profile, i've written about this at length at least a few times before.
I had a couple of other points, but I can't remember them just now. Hope this helps to give you something to digest.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:14 PM on November 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
Mod note: This is a followup comment from the anonymous poster.
Thanks everyone for your kind answers. I was really scared and quite ashamed to air this in a public place. Only one or two people in my life know anything about this relationship. I do see a counselor regularly, but I have never brought this up as it just seems -- well, stupid.
I'm embarrassed by it, frankly. It's hard to explain how things can get so intense over the internet.
That said, I would like to divulge some more details, because, in attempting to get over this, I am wondering if it's possible that I was actually abused -- by someone who treated me in a way that goes beyond 'immature' or even 'manipulative.' But my frame of reference is obviously skewed, so that is why I'd like some relatively objective eyes to look at this collection of details, in no particular order:
-He threatened to kill my ex-boyfriend once, when he thought I'd rejected him (I actually hadn't. He told me it was a serious threat, and he'd considered methods, timing, etc.)
-He once mailed a package for me to my mom's workplace (this was a deal my mom had agreed to) that was wrapped in such a way that it created a bomb-scare.
-He claimed to be extraordinarily interested in sex, and had a sadistic streak about it. I believe he enjoyed degrading women.
-He claimed he was obsessed with porn in general, and spent a lot of time compulsively seeking and viewing it.
-He told me one of his friends was jailed for possessing child porn, and I know he, too, possessed it at one point.
-I suspect that he made up a false persona on the chat program we used, where we both were a part of a loose social group. It was a weird situation, where sockpuppets were coming out of the woodwork, and everyone knew someone among our group must be doing it, but could not imagine who it was. I now suspect it may have been him, possibly just for a chance to create drama, toy with people, etc.
-I suspect that he may have harassed me with obscene, threatening phonecalls at one point, during a time when I was especially afraid of being raped (after a bad incident with a stranger.)
-He admitted that he'd lied to me, early on, about several romantic relationships he'd never had.
-He claimed that he had "dozens" of beautiful women "throwing themselves" at him just before he got married.
-He claimed he was quite heavily addicted to amphetamine and alcohol for several years, which nearly killed him.
-He claimed to have been hospitalized with a heart attack, brought on by amphetamine use, at age 20.
-He claimed that, at one point, his doctor thought he might have AIDS (around the same time.)
-He had a very unhappy relationship with his mother and always called her by her first name.
-He claimed to be in love with me, that I was one of the most important people in his life, if not THE most important. He told me on many occasions that I was his best friend. All his other friends were too stupid/not artistic enough/not abstract thinkers/not critical thinkers/not emotionally alive, whatever. He lived in a small town and used that as an excuse for why he'd have to seek out a best friend online -- the people in his midst were just too provincial. Behind my back, he described me as "pedestrian."
-He often forgot things I'd told him about myself, and would mix up dates really badly. This might be due to alcohol use. He'd describe something that happened between us as being a year or years ago, when I knew that it was something that'd happened recently. (Case in point: I was talking with him a lot over the phone one year around Christmas, while I was visiting my parents. During that time, he told me a story of how once, years ago, he'd called my house to ask for me, but I had gone away, and he told my mother that he loved me. Much later, I realized from what my mom told me that this had actually happened probably a day or two before he told me about it. Yet he'd described it as happening in the distant, inscrutable past.)
-When we talked, over the phone or internet, he'd often have several other conversations going on at the same time, and would frequently cut out to go smoke/drink/eat, whatever -- like every 10 minutes.
-He is apparently married now, with a child. I have no idea if this is true or fabricated. If it's true, I do actually worry for his wife and child. If not, it would not surprise me in the slightest.
Now, out of all these details, I'm unsure which are significant and which are flotsam. I know some of these items are really shocking, but he managed to explain them all away so convincingly at the time. I'm looking for an outside observer's interpretation of these various details.
I've had other flesh-and-blood relationships, as well as online or long-distance relationships -- so I have an idea of what people who are really in love usually act like. And none of these preceding details fit into that. So, if anything, DO they mean?
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:54 AM on November 5, 2008
Thanks everyone for your kind answers. I was really scared and quite ashamed to air this in a public place. Only one or two people in my life know anything about this relationship. I do see a counselor regularly, but I have never brought this up as it just seems -- well, stupid.
I'm embarrassed by it, frankly. It's hard to explain how things can get so intense over the internet.
That said, I would like to divulge some more details, because, in attempting to get over this, I am wondering if it's possible that I was actually abused -- by someone who treated me in a way that goes beyond 'immature' or even 'manipulative.' But my frame of reference is obviously skewed, so that is why I'd like some relatively objective eyes to look at this collection of details, in no particular order:
-He threatened to kill my ex-boyfriend once, when he thought I'd rejected him (I actually hadn't. He told me it was a serious threat, and he'd considered methods, timing, etc.)
-He once mailed a package for me to my mom's workplace (this was a deal my mom had agreed to) that was wrapped in such a way that it created a bomb-scare.
-He claimed to be extraordinarily interested in sex, and had a sadistic streak about it. I believe he enjoyed degrading women.
-He claimed he was obsessed with porn in general, and spent a lot of time compulsively seeking and viewing it.
-He told me one of his friends was jailed for possessing child porn, and I know he, too, possessed it at one point.
-I suspect that he made up a false persona on the chat program we used, where we both were a part of a loose social group. It was a weird situation, where sockpuppets were coming out of the woodwork, and everyone knew someone among our group must be doing it, but could not imagine who it was. I now suspect it may have been him, possibly just for a chance to create drama, toy with people, etc.
-I suspect that he may have harassed me with obscene, threatening phonecalls at one point, during a time when I was especially afraid of being raped (after a bad incident with a stranger.)
-He admitted that he'd lied to me, early on, about several romantic relationships he'd never had.
-He claimed that he had "dozens" of beautiful women "throwing themselves" at him just before he got married.
-He claimed he was quite heavily addicted to amphetamine and alcohol for several years, which nearly killed him.
-He claimed to have been hospitalized with a heart attack, brought on by amphetamine use, at age 20.
-He claimed that, at one point, his doctor thought he might have AIDS (around the same time.)
-He had a very unhappy relationship with his mother and always called her by her first name.
-He claimed to be in love with me, that I was one of the most important people in his life, if not THE most important. He told me on many occasions that I was his best friend. All his other friends were too stupid/not artistic enough/not abstract thinkers/not critical thinkers/not emotionally alive, whatever. He lived in a small town and used that as an excuse for why he'd have to seek out a best friend online -- the people in his midst were just too provincial. Behind my back, he described me as "pedestrian."
-He often forgot things I'd told him about myself, and would mix up dates really badly. This might be due to alcohol use. He'd describe something that happened between us as being a year or years ago, when I knew that it was something that'd happened recently. (Case in point: I was talking with him a lot over the phone one year around Christmas, while I was visiting my parents. During that time, he told me a story of how once, years ago, he'd called my house to ask for me, but I had gone away, and he told my mother that he loved me. Much later, I realized from what my mom told me that this had actually happened probably a day or two before he told me about it. Yet he'd described it as happening in the distant, inscrutable past.)
-When we talked, over the phone or internet, he'd often have several other conversations going on at the same time, and would frequently cut out to go smoke/drink/eat, whatever -- like every 10 minutes.
-He is apparently married now, with a child. I have no idea if this is true or fabricated. If it's true, I do actually worry for his wife and child. If not, it would not surprise me in the slightest.
Now, out of all these details, I'm unsure which are significant and which are flotsam. I know some of these items are really shocking, but he managed to explain them all away so convincingly at the time. I'm looking for an outside observer's interpretation of these various details.
I've had other flesh-and-blood relationships, as well as online or long-distance relationships -- so I have an idea of what people who are really in love usually act like. And none of these preceding details fit into that. So, if anything, DO they mean?
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:54 AM on November 5, 2008
um, that he's a sociopathic white-trash loser with a vicious & childish nasty streak, and that you're a million times better off having shown him the door?
(just hazarding a guess there)
posted by UbuRoivas at 12:00 PM on November 5, 2008
(just hazarding a guess there)
posted by UbuRoivas at 12:00 PM on November 5, 2008
They mean that he was probably lying his ass off to get attention, to make himself seem more exciting or interesting, to create drama and solicit sympathy. You are right that none of those things fit into genuine love.
You are wondering if it is possible you were actually abused. To me the clearest sign that you were indeed emotionally abused is the threat to kill your ex-boyfriend. This man threatened to harm a person due to a perceived rejection. This is abuse, a control tactic to keep you too afraid to risk further perceived rejections. Many of the items on your list seem to indicate a focused campaign of maintaining fear and insecurity in you. The guy was emotionally abusing you and UbuRoivas is correct that you are a million times better off without him.
posted by narrativium at 12:25 AM on November 6, 2008
You are wondering if it is possible you were actually abused. To me the clearest sign that you were indeed emotionally abused is the threat to kill your ex-boyfriend. This man threatened to harm a person due to a perceived rejection. This is abuse, a control tactic to keep you too afraid to risk further perceived rejections. Many of the items on your list seem to indicate a focused campaign of maintaining fear and insecurity in you. The guy was emotionally abusing you and UbuRoivas is correct that you are a million times better off without him.
posted by narrativium at 12:25 AM on November 6, 2008
This is nothing to be ashamed of. This is something you need to talk about with your counselor. Please do that. It will help you understand and deal with what this scumbag has done to you. It will help you get over it and move on to more stable relationships with better people.
posted by exphysicist345 at 6:27 PM on November 9, 2008
posted by exphysicist345 at 6:27 PM on November 9, 2008
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People like that get a sense of power and fulfillment out of their games. It made him feel good to have power over you and, I'd bet, other women. It's like how bullies put down other people to make themselves feel better: now just add another layer of a possibly misogynistic individual having that power over all these women.
He took advantage of your friendship by treating you like dirt and messing with your emotions. It's only natural that it still bothers you. It's not your fault that it still bothers you, seriously, don't see yourself as being fucked up - don't blame yourself when he's the asshole who toyed with you.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 3:16 PM on November 3, 2008