Bring On The Big Dogs?
October 23, 2008 5:05 PM Subscribe
Should I put myself in the midst of big egos again?
About 10 years ago I made the decision to exclude persons with big egos from both my personal and professional lives. I have been fairly successful at doing this and the result is a happier, calmer life. My reasons for choosing this strategy were a sense that, it was all about them, that they were generally incapable of listening, that a true equal partnership was impossible, that they would always take credit and/or throw me to the wolves in order to advance their career.
Recently I've come into contact with some egotists and had the feeling that I could have richer fuller life if I let them into my life on a limited basis. Is this a good decision? How can I interact with this type of person without getting hurt or taken advantage of? How can I work effectively with egotists, is partnership possible?
From what I can tell most people with big egos are actually really insecure and use the ego thing as a coverup.
That said, the best way to deal with a megalomaniac is to not be around them. You might have a 'richer, fuller life' but while interesting, it probably won't be happy or calm.
posted by dunkadunc at 5:25 PM on October 23, 2008
That said, the best way to deal with a megalomaniac is to not be around them. You might have a 'richer, fuller life' but while interesting, it probably won't be happy or calm.
posted by dunkadunc at 5:25 PM on October 23, 2008
Let's say I told you I'd come to your house with some beers to watch the game. For argument sake, let's say that you'd think that would be a good time.
But, I say, I'm bringing my pit bull. Either the pit bull comes to our little party, or the party doesn't happen at all.
What would you do? Put your foot down and not allow the pit bull into the house, just on general principle? Or would you start asking questions?
* Is the pit bull friendly?
* Is the pit bull trained?
* Is the pit bull housebroken?
* Will there be a child in the house?
* Will there be other pets in the house?
* Can the pit bull wear a muzzle?
* Can the pit bull stay in a crate?
* Do I have dog treats in the house?
* Do I even like dogs?
* What kind of beer did you say you'd be bringing to the party?
My point is, you probably wouldn't ban the pit bull just on G.P. Like anything else, you'd observe the situation, make a cost / benefit analysis (beer = good, non-housebroken pit bull = bad), make a decision, set some ground rules and act upon them.
Same thing here. Is this a good decision? I don't know. Nobody does. But you're a smart person. Observe, analyze, decide. Then stick to whatever decisions you make.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 5:28 PM on October 23, 2008 [4 favorites]
But, I say, I'm bringing my pit bull. Either the pit bull comes to our little party, or the party doesn't happen at all.
What would you do? Put your foot down and not allow the pit bull into the house, just on general principle? Or would you start asking questions?
* Is the pit bull friendly?
* Is the pit bull trained?
* Is the pit bull housebroken?
* Will there be a child in the house?
* Will there be other pets in the house?
* Can the pit bull wear a muzzle?
* Can the pit bull stay in a crate?
* Do I have dog treats in the house?
* Do I even like dogs?
* What kind of beer did you say you'd be bringing to the party?
My point is, you probably wouldn't ban the pit bull just on G.P. Like anything else, you'd observe the situation, make a cost / benefit analysis (beer = good, non-housebroken pit bull = bad), make a decision, set some ground rules and act upon them.
Same thing here. Is this a good decision? I don't know. Nobody does. But you're a smart person. Observe, analyze, decide. Then stick to whatever decisions you make.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 5:28 PM on October 23, 2008 [4 favorites]
I know exactly what you're talking about.
I still associate with egomaniacs on a limited basis (parties) but I find that I must keep reminding myself not to worry about their opinion of me, which can be an awkward. Ultimately, I have found that one- on-one interaction with egomaniacs is a waste of time.
posted by bonobothegreat at 5:30 PM on October 23, 2008
I still associate with egomaniacs on a limited basis (parties) but I find that I must keep reminding myself not to worry about their opinion of me, which can be an awkward. Ultimately, I have found that one- on-one interaction with egomaniacs is a waste of time.
posted by bonobothegreat at 5:30 PM on October 23, 2008
I'm really curious as to how you did this -- did you quit jobs where you would have been in close contact with egomaniacs? How do you identify them quickly?
As for your question: I think that limited contact with every kind of person is a good thing.
posted by OLechat at 5:57 PM on October 23, 2008
As for your question: I think that limited contact with every kind of person is a good thing.
posted by OLechat at 5:57 PM on October 23, 2008
About 10 years ago I made the decision to exclude [something] from both my personal and professional lives. I have been fairly successful at doing this and the result is a happier, calmer life.... [Should I] let them into my life?
For any value of [something], the answer is "No."
posted by rokusan at 6:00 PM on October 23, 2008
For any value of [something], the answer is "No."
posted by rokusan at 6:00 PM on October 23, 2008
Most great enterprises in the world begin on some level with a lot of bullshit and bravado. Truth is errors commited by audacity can often be corrected by more audacity. I've noticed that big risk generally equals big rewards, and fortune tends to favour the brave.
How do you keep out of the crazier stuff?... just sit out some of the more wild projects and nod and smile at the more boring stories.
posted by Deep Dish at 6:07 PM on October 23, 2008
How do you keep out of the crazier stuff?... just sit out some of the more wild projects and nod and smile at the more boring stories.
posted by Deep Dish at 6:07 PM on October 23, 2008
Sincere question: what are you talking about? How do you define "egotists" and how do you identify them?
Ditto. What exactly do you mean by egotist?
posted by philip-random at 6:11 PM on October 23, 2008
Ditto. What exactly do you mean by egotist?
posted by philip-random at 6:11 PM on October 23, 2008
It really depends on whether their big ego is based on the fact that they are quite clever, accomplished and competent or on a complete fantasy life.
posted by fshgrl at 6:23 PM on October 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by fshgrl at 6:23 PM on October 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
If an egotist is someone who is "all about them, that they were generally incapable of listening, that a true equal partnership was impossible, that they would always take credit and/or throw me to the wolves in order to advance their career", why do you think you would have a richer life with interaction with them? What's the attraction, or what do they add to your life?
posted by Houstonian at 6:23 PM on October 23, 2008
posted by Houstonian at 6:23 PM on October 23, 2008
When talking about egotists...is that another way of saying A-Type personality? Because to be quite honest its not a bad thing to have them in your life if you genuinely treat them as friends (eg. not for selfish reasons so YOUR life can be better).
That made me think about your question a bit, and I really think you're going about classifying people all wrong. What you really should be concerned of is a much simpler word called "jerk"
Do you want jerks in your life? Really, who does?
Cool Papa really nails this though in my opinion....you're going to have to use good judgment all the way, and not expect things to always work out to your benefit.
posted by samsara at 6:26 PM on October 23, 2008
That made me think about your question a bit, and I really think you're going about classifying people all wrong. What you really should be concerned of is a much simpler word called "jerk"
Do you want jerks in your life? Really, who does?
Cool Papa really nails this though in my opinion....you're going to have to use good judgment all the way, and not expect things to always work out to your benefit.
posted by samsara at 6:26 PM on October 23, 2008
I hope this request for clarification is a little different from the others: what benefits, exactly, do you see yourself getting from associating with these people? This would inform any strategy on how to best interact with them, and what interactions to eschew. Corollary: what benefits do they get from you (obviously not sycophancy).
I hope you reply, because I am very interested in this question now that you've brought it up.
posted by amtho at 7:18 PM on October 23, 2008
I hope you reply, because I am very interested in this question now that you've brought it up.
posted by amtho at 7:18 PM on October 23, 2008
There are two kinds of egotistical people: those who have a reason to be proud, arrogant and self-indulgent; and those that don't.
Those that do I dislike overall but respect on some level because I can learn from something them. I would not call them close friends but find it beneficial to maintain cordial (but not insincerely effusive) acquaintance.
Those that don't are deluded losers and I cut them out of my life. (yeah...former roomate...I'm talking about you)
posted by randomstriker at 8:07 PM on October 23, 2008
Those that do I dislike overall but respect on some level because I can learn from something them. I would not call them close friends but find it beneficial to maintain cordial (but not insincerely effusive) acquaintance.
Those that don't are deluded losers and I cut them out of my life. (yeah...former roomate...I'm talking about you)
posted by randomstriker at 8:07 PM on October 23, 2008
Are you saying you are tired of making the money you're making in this egotist-free life and think it might be time to step up the career ladder a little and see if you can deal with their amoral behavior?
Now and then, I work with people who have some pretty big egos - however I would compare this trait to what dog people call "drive." If you're asking my personal opinion, stay away from people who don't believe that they are accountable for their actions. Stay away from people you can't trust. If you are talking about people who talk themselves up at every turn, and yet make sure nothing is on paper so nothing is ever their fault, run. In my corner of the world, we tag them as "kissing up and kicking down." It's very effective for them. Some people have the necessary skills to protect themselves from these jerks. Based on your choice in the past, I'm guessing you're no better at it than me.
That's what I say. But it's your life.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:07 PM on October 23, 2008 [2 favorites]
Now and then, I work with people who have some pretty big egos - however I would compare this trait to what dog people call "drive." If you're asking my personal opinion, stay away from people who don't believe that they are accountable for their actions. Stay away from people you can't trust. If you are talking about people who talk themselves up at every turn, and yet make sure nothing is on paper so nothing is ever their fault, run. In my corner of the world, we tag them as "kissing up and kicking down." It's very effective for them. Some people have the necessary skills to protect themselves from these jerks. Based on your choice in the past, I'm guessing you're no better at it than me.
That's what I say. But it's your life.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:07 PM on October 23, 2008 [2 favorites]
I would say, no, actually. There are a bazillion ways to enrich your happy, calm life without dealing with egotists. Fool me once, shame on you.. fool me twice, shame on me.
Take some time to reflect on the lessons you learned years ago. There are ways to achieve your goal without involving these people. You're just feeding into their vortex of un-mindful behaviour by supporting them (and that's what they'll want you to do).
posted by By The Grace of God at 2:05 AM on October 24, 2008
Take some time to reflect on the lessons you learned years ago. There are ways to achieve your goal without involving these people. You're just feeding into their vortex of un-mindful behaviour by supporting them (and that's what they'll want you to do).
posted by By The Grace of God at 2:05 AM on October 24, 2008
how could partnering people with large egos help you have a richer, fuller life? that seems.... odd
posted by mrmarley at 4:36 AM on October 24, 2008
posted by mrmarley at 4:36 AM on October 24, 2008
I had a friend I worked with on various project who sounds a lot like this. He was notorious for taking the credit and alienated a lot of people who refused to work with him. I always did though. The thing is I didn't care about taking credit, I cared about the things that were getting done (which was mostly non-profit stuff). I always said he exploited me in a way I could agree with, he had the knack of getting the best out of me, and getting me to do stuff I would not have done otherwise. I got to do the stuff I liked, generating ideas, and he shielded me from the stuff I didn't are for so much, some of the grunt work, or going out and selling projects.
I think the key was that there was a degree of respect, he knew that he was a lot better off having me around to do this, so he couldn't afford to piss me off. In fact he made sure I enjoyed myself doing it, would feed me up, ply me with wine and pot, so it wasn't like it was stealing a big chunk of my life and I got to do the fun parts for me. I have always seen ideas just as ideas, things to give away so i didn't mind so much if peopel didn't know I was behind them. It might have been different if there was real work involved though.
So I think it can, but you have to know what the terms are, and you to be in a position where you can dictate them.
posted by tallus at 5:03 AM on October 24, 2008
I think the key was that there was a degree of respect, he knew that he was a lot better off having me around to do this, so he couldn't afford to piss me off. In fact he made sure I enjoyed myself doing it, would feed me up, ply me with wine and pot, so it wasn't like it was stealing a big chunk of my life and I got to do the fun parts for me. I have always seen ideas just as ideas, things to give away so i didn't mind so much if peopel didn't know I was behind them. It might have been different if there was real work involved though.
So I think it can, but you have to know what the terms are, and you to be in a position where you can dictate them.
posted by tallus at 5:03 AM on October 24, 2008
Man has to have a little bit o'variety.
What a strange question! Any maybe the wrong one. Surely, you would only be friends with people you *liked*. I have friends on all sorts of scales of differing personality traits, but the thing they have in common is that I like them all. Erm, thats about it.
posted by daveyt at 6:12 AM on October 24, 2008
What a strange question! Any maybe the wrong one. Surely, you would only be friends with people you *liked*. I have friends on all sorts of scales of differing personality traits, but the thing they have in common is that I like them all. Erm, thats about it.
posted by daveyt at 6:12 AM on October 24, 2008
Of course it's possible. Do you think most people cut people with big egos from their lives? No, they don't. Most people have to learn to get along with all kinds of different strong personalities. Most people don't totally suck, and do have something to offer despite their personality flaws. And we ALL have those, don't we? I sure do. :-P
Having a big ego does not necessarily mean that a person is going to throw you to the wolves or be a douchebag. People are not black and white, and one egotistical person is not necessarily like the rest. Try to stop labeling people and instead approach relationships (business and personal) on a case by case basis. If someone gives you reason to be cautious in your dealings with them, then be cautious. If you don't trust someone, don't trust them. If someone makes you feel crappy or drains you emotionally, don't spend time with them.
It sounds like by cutting out "egomaniacs", you might be hiding from a type of person who has made you feel like a victim in the past. Maybe the issue isn't so much whether you should deign to associate with these types again, but how you can increase your personal confidence and ability to stand up for yourself so that you don't have to worry about being taken advantage of or belittled.
posted by tastybrains at 8:10 AM on October 24, 2008
Having a big ego does not necessarily mean that a person is going to throw you to the wolves or be a douchebag. People are not black and white, and one egotistical person is not necessarily like the rest. Try to stop labeling people and instead approach relationships (business and personal) on a case by case basis. If someone gives you reason to be cautious in your dealings with them, then be cautious. If you don't trust someone, don't trust them. If someone makes you feel crappy or drains you emotionally, don't spend time with them.
It sounds like by cutting out "egomaniacs", you might be hiding from a type of person who has made you feel like a victim in the past. Maybe the issue isn't so much whether you should deign to associate with these types again, but how you can increase your personal confidence and ability to stand up for yourself so that you don't have to worry about being taken advantage of or belittled.
posted by tastybrains at 8:10 AM on October 24, 2008
Response by poster: A clarification towards the end of the thread. I like people with big egos. They are fun, have high energy, big ideas. They just sap my energy. They may or may not be friends but that is not pertinent.
All my work is funneled through one humble client. He does not market and the work is getting boring. Through him I have met some high profile people who I could approach to work with. Money is not an issue here, but energy and creativity are. I just don't want to get hurt again and lose my self in someone else.
posted by Xurando at 9:19 AM on October 24, 2008
All my work is funneled through one humble client. He does not market and the work is getting boring. Through him I have met some high profile people who I could approach to work with. Money is not an issue here, but energy and creativity are. I just don't want to get hurt again and lose my self in someone else.
posted by Xurando at 9:19 AM on October 24, 2008
I honestly think it really really depends on the egoist in question. My favorite professor has a massive ego. However, his ego drives him and it also makes him a great professor because great professor's have great students who do great things and he makes sure he does everything in his power to make his students great. Yes there are times he is insufferable, but honestly that's pretty rarely and every time I see him he's telling me people to call, things I should be doing, and a ton of other interesting stuff that has really helped me.
Actually the more I think about it, the more I think it's what kind of person the egoist thinks they are that is the key. For my professor he wants to be everyone's favorite professor, he wants to be the smartest guy in the room, he wants to be the guy who inspires his students. Because at the end of the day his students are a reflection of him and if they are doing great things, well he knows them and he helped get them there. For some egoists they just want to be better than everyone else and that means making everyone else look worse than themselves, so it really boils down to what kind of egoist are they?
posted by whoaali at 10:12 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Actually the more I think about it, the more I think it's what kind of person the egoist thinks they are that is the key. For my professor he wants to be everyone's favorite professor, he wants to be the smartest guy in the room, he wants to be the guy who inspires his students. Because at the end of the day his students are a reflection of him and if they are doing great things, well he knows them and he helped get them there. For some egoists they just want to be better than everyone else and that means making everyone else look worse than themselves, so it really boils down to what kind of egoist are they?
posted by whoaali at 10:12 AM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Generally, I try to deal with people on a case-by-case basis, rather than as interchangeables to be courted or shunned based on my classification of them into arbitrary "types."
I dunno. Might be worth a try.
posted by ook at 12:57 PM on October 24, 2008
I dunno. Might be worth a try.
posted by ook at 12:57 PM on October 24, 2008
Take a risk and see if things are different now, 10 years later, knowing what you know. You can always pull back if it just doesn't feel right.
posted by infinityjinx at 4:29 PM on October 24, 2008
posted by infinityjinx at 4:29 PM on October 24, 2008
Socially, limit your exposure to group settings. At work, make sure they're only a small portion of your clients.
These people are at their best playing to a crowd. They need lots of attention, so group settings is when they're at their funniest/most charming/wittiest. It's when you are the only person around to provide them with the attention they crave that they become toxic, needy and selfish.
Big egos can enrich your life, but you have to be smart and limit your exposure.
posted by the latin mouse at 4:37 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
These people are at their best playing to a crowd. They need lots of attention, so group settings is when they're at their funniest/most charming/wittiest. It's when you are the only person around to provide them with the attention they crave that they become toxic, needy and selfish.
Big egos can enrich your life, but you have to be smart and limit your exposure.
posted by the latin mouse at 4:37 PM on October 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by moxiedoll at 5:23 PM on October 23, 2008