Sorting out my pr0n insecurities
July 7, 2006 8:47 PM Subscribe
Are guys more obsessed with BJs than they used to be? [some slightly NSFW talk follows]
It seems that over the past several years, in my gentlemanly visitations of various gentlemanly web sites (mostly just pics), I'm seeing a big trend towards BJs. In one big community-driven site (initials start with O, ends with C) the hardcore section is easily 80-90% BJs, with facials being a huge .
I'm having trouble understanding why BJs are all the rage. I enjoy getting serviced as much as the next guy, but I want to understand how pictures of this are exciting. Usually it's pictures of some guy's wang, and typically very little is shown of the woman. As a hetero I find this kind of unrewarding.
Perhaps I have some "empathy" disconnect with not appreciating BJ pics. Maybe plain old naked women and the old in & out are old-school. Or maybe I'm not in the right pr0n communities. Then again I'm probably atypical as I've never been a fan of thin teens (which is also the rage). I don't know. Thoughts?
It seems that over the past several years, in my gentlemanly visitations of various gentlemanly web sites (mostly just pics), I'm seeing a big trend towards BJs. In one big community-driven site (initials start with O, ends with C) the hardcore section is easily 80-90% BJs, with facials being a huge .
I'm having trouble understanding why BJs are all the rage. I enjoy getting serviced as much as the next guy, but I want to understand how pictures of this are exciting. Usually it's pictures of some guy's wang, and typically very little is shown of the woman. As a hetero I find this kind of unrewarding.
Perhaps I have some "empathy" disconnect with not appreciating BJ pics. Maybe plain old naked women and the old in & out are old-school. Or maybe I'm not in the right pr0n communities. Then again I'm probably atypical as I've never been a fan of thin teens (which is also the rage). I don't know. Thoughts?
I'm not more obsessed with BJs than I used to be. Rather, I'm almost precisely as obsessed with BJs as I used to be.
posted by Decani at 8:57 PM on July 7, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by Decani at 8:57 PM on July 7, 2006 [1 favorite]
Real men like their bourbon smooth, their cars fast, and their porn degrading. Fellatio, especially as represented in porn, has strong overtones of submission, which is a fantasy for many men. This also explains the prevalance of another sexual act that, in real life, occurs with significantly reduced frequency.
posted by deadfather at 8:59 PM on July 7, 2006
posted by deadfather at 8:59 PM on July 7, 2006
I'm not familiar with the site you're referring to, but I have not noticed the same disproportionate amount of fellatio in my travels.
Girls get paid less for oral-only shoots, fwiw. Cost-saving measure?
posted by trevyn at 9:00 PM on July 7, 2006
Girls get paid less for oral-only shoots, fwiw. Cost-saving measure?
posted by trevyn at 9:00 PM on July 7, 2006
It's definitely becoming more of a thing in the pron inductry, so I guess consumers must like it.
I don't see to much "no blowjob" porn being marketed... but if the market exists, I am sure the product will be made available soon enough.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:01 PM on July 7, 2006
I don't see to much "no blowjob" porn being marketed... but if the market exists, I am sure the product will be made available soon enough.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:01 PM on July 7, 2006
...I'd suspect that it's related to the focus of Bj's being wholly on the male's pleasure, rather than a shared sensory experience in most cases of intercourse.
Speak for yourself, sister.
posted by tristeza at 9:07 PM on July 7, 2006
Speak for yourself, sister.
posted by tristeza at 9:07 PM on July 7, 2006
Nope, I'm saying saying the focus isn't "wholly on the male's pleasure".... I really don't think it is (for some of us).
posted by tristeza at 9:11 PM on July 7, 2006
posted by tristeza at 9:11 PM on July 7, 2006
I'm actually really turned on by a woman's beautiful smiling face. It's a real turn off for ME when I can't see the womans face in porn, OR if she doesn't look happy. I really don't see the degrading bit, because it's tit for tat and everyone gets theirs.
Off the top of my head I can't figure what I prefer in reality. I can have sex with a woman face to face and enjoy that very well, in porn it doesn't work that way, it's genitals or face shot, and well, porn is like candy these days, so face shots are relegated to ... facials. If they got too far away from the action areas people would lose interest.
posted by Napierzaza at 9:12 PM on July 7, 2006
Off the top of my head I can't figure what I prefer in reality. I can have sex with a woman face to face and enjoy that very well, in porn it doesn't work that way, it's genitals or face shot, and well, porn is like candy these days, so face shots are relegated to ... facials. If they got too far away from the action areas people would lose interest.
posted by Napierzaza at 9:12 PM on July 7, 2006
Maybe it's because a lot of men secretly get turned on by cock.
BJ vids have way more close-up cock.
posted by utsutsu at 9:37 PM on July 7, 2006
BJ vids have way more close-up cock.
posted by utsutsu at 9:37 PM on July 7, 2006
Perhaps with the growth of BJ porn, there has been a reduction in actual BJs? I await the next book of Freakonomics, when Steve Levitt and Gay Talese tour the seedy side of Chicago gathering data while Nan waits in the car.
posted by parmanparman at 9:45 PM on July 7, 2006
posted by parmanparman at 9:45 PM on July 7, 2006
I'm certainly not an expert on porn, but here's what I think -
Blow jobs, hand jobs and prostate massage are all sex acts in which the receiver is essentially passive. Boy-o is lying on his back, sitting in a chair or whatever, but that's about all he's doing.
Getting a bj requires absolutely no sexual prowess. Boy-o doesn't have to worry about "doing it right." He doesn't have to worry about pleasing his partner. It's an idiot-proof exercise. It just happens to him. Getting a blowjob is to any other sex act what watching TV is to doing improv.
Look through all of the sexuality-related AskMe posts and count the number of times a man in good sexual health has expressed insecurity about his performance while receiving a blow job. Compare that to the myriad posts in which men who worry about giving blowjobs, performing cunnilingus, having intercourse or performing other sex acts that require mutual participation. There aren't any.
Also, heterosexual penis-in-vagina sex ain't what it used to be. Men used to be able to pretend that normal women didn't achieve orgasm that way - it was woman's wifely duty to submit to some thrusting now and again, but she wasn't supposed to enjoy it. Men can no longer imagine that heterosexual penis-in-vagina sex is only about them.
Yes, I'm sure that there's some lovely, life-affirming porn out there in which both heterosexual partners have orgasms, but that isn't what most men want in most porn. They want something mindless that they can get off to.
They want to imagine lying back and getting their cock safely slobbered all over. Then they want to get off and go back to whatever they were doing.
That, and men secretly get turned on by cock.
posted by freshwater_pr0n at 10:17 PM on July 7, 2006
Blow jobs, hand jobs and prostate massage are all sex acts in which the receiver is essentially passive. Boy-o is lying on his back, sitting in a chair or whatever, but that's about all he's doing.
Getting a bj requires absolutely no sexual prowess. Boy-o doesn't have to worry about "doing it right." He doesn't have to worry about pleasing his partner. It's an idiot-proof exercise. It just happens to him. Getting a blowjob is to any other sex act what watching TV is to doing improv.
Look through all of the sexuality-related AskMe posts and count the number of times a man in good sexual health has expressed insecurity about his performance while receiving a blow job. Compare that to the myriad posts in which men who worry about giving blowjobs, performing cunnilingus, having intercourse or performing other sex acts that require mutual participation. There aren't any.
Also, heterosexual penis-in-vagina sex ain't what it used to be. Men used to be able to pretend that normal women didn't achieve orgasm that way - it was woman's wifely duty to submit to some thrusting now and again, but she wasn't supposed to enjoy it. Men can no longer imagine that heterosexual penis-in-vagina sex is only about them.
Yes, I'm sure that there's some lovely, life-affirming porn out there in which both heterosexual partners have orgasms, but that isn't what most men want in most porn. They want something mindless that they can get off to.
They want to imagine lying back and getting their cock safely slobbered all over. Then they want to get off and go back to whatever they were doing.
That, and men secretly get turned on by cock.
posted by freshwater_pr0n at 10:17 PM on July 7, 2006
I don't know if porn imitates life, but I wonder if it has to do with a more casual attitude towards oral sex in the real world, particularly among young people. It also might be related to recent HIV issues in the adult film industry: blowjobs aren't safe sex, but they are safer than intercourse.
posted by Violet Hour at 11:21 PM on July 7, 2006
posted by Violet Hour at 11:21 PM on July 7, 2006
From Savage Love:
Sucking cock can no longer be regarded as some sort of above-and-beyond-the-call indulgence. Blowjobs are standard. Any make or model that doesn't come with blowjobs should be immediately returned to the showroom.
posted by Methylviolet at 11:34 PM on July 7, 2006
Sucking cock can no longer be regarded as some sort of above-and-beyond-the-call indulgence. Blowjobs are standard. Any make or model that doesn't come with blowjobs should be immediately returned to the showroom.
posted by Methylviolet at 11:34 PM on July 7, 2006
er, all I have to say while I understand the sentiment behind the all inclusive language being used but I want to raise a small voice to say that many men do not find domination and humilation a turn on
posted by edgeways at 11:40 PM on July 7, 2006
posted by edgeways at 11:40 PM on July 7, 2006
sorry bad phrasing, multitasking laste at night does that :(
posted by edgeways at 11:42 PM on July 7, 2006
posted by edgeways at 11:42 PM on July 7, 2006
thanks, parmanparman... now i need a new macbook. diet coke everywhere.
posted by joeblough at 11:48 PM on July 7, 2006
posted by joeblough at 11:48 PM on July 7, 2006
bukkake = buyucky. The same follows by degree for things related by degree. A lot of people may not agree, but a lot of people do. Ech.
posted by cortex at 12:36 AM on July 8, 2006
posted by cortex at 12:36 AM on July 8, 2006
I would argue that blowjobs have become derigeur in a mundane, paint-by-the-numbers sort of way, and the real obssession now is with anal sex.
posted by randomstriker at 2:04 AM on July 8, 2006
posted by randomstriker at 2:04 AM on July 8, 2006
What's after that then?
Double penetration.
Personally, blowjobs don't do much for me. Oh, sure I don't mind getting head, but I'd rather give (cunnilngus) than recieve.
It's a sort of supply and demand thing with porn. Most porn is going to be what sells to the lowest common denominator, and most people want to see skinny blond girls with big, bolt-on frankentits, scarfing up some guy's pud, right now. Supply and Demand.
posted by SansPoint at 3:19 AM on July 8, 2006
Double penetration.
Personally, blowjobs don't do much for me. Oh, sure I don't mind getting head, but I'd rather give (cunnilngus) than recieve.
It's a sort of supply and demand thing with porn. Most porn is going to be what sells to the lowest common denominator, and most people want to see skinny blond girls with big, bolt-on frankentits, scarfing up some guy's pud, right now. Supply and Demand.
posted by SansPoint at 3:19 AM on July 8, 2006
I'm having trouble understanding why BJs are all the rage. I enjoy getting serviced as much as the next guy, but I want to understand how pictures of this are exciting. Usually it's pictures of some guy's wang, and typically very little is shown of the woman. As a hetero I find this kind of unrewarding.
Yet you want to talk about them? :)
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:39 AM on July 8, 2006
Yet you want to talk about them? :)
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:39 AM on July 8, 2006
blow jobs are just quicker. BJ's are great because sometimes you just wanna get off without the huddlings and messiness of sex. and if done right, its very messy.
it goes both ways. sometimes i just service my gal instead all out sex. she loves it when i throw her on her back and tongue lash her before work. its quick and it encourages her to return the favor. sometimes she wants to get off without having to put on the leather and ball gag.
good ass will get you dinner good head will get you a house payment.
posted by Davaal at 5:15 AM on July 8, 2006
it goes both ways. sometimes i just service my gal instead all out sex. she loves it when i throw her on her back and tongue lash her before work. its quick and it encourages her to return the favor. sometimes she wants to get off without having to put on the leather and ball gag.
good ass will get you dinner good head will get you a house payment.
posted by Davaal at 5:15 AM on July 8, 2006
A lot of blowjob pictures seem to be taken from the guy's point of view. The idea seems to be that men will look at it and say, "Wow, it looks like she's blowing me."
Porn's all about the fantasy, after all. Those first-person shots make it real easy for a guy to insert himself into the fantasy — and in a participatory role, too, not just as an onlooker.
Now imagine trying to get that visceral first-person response from a photo of missionary sex. You'd either see a section of pillow, a scary-close view of a face, or a weirdly foreshortened stretch of two torsos, depending on the angle. And that's assuming the cameraman had room to get in there and work at all. I've seen a few such pictures on porn sites, but they looked awkward, impractical and funny-looking, not at all sexy.
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:44 AM on July 8, 2006
Porn's all about the fantasy, after all. Those first-person shots make it real easy for a guy to insert himself into the fantasy — and in a participatory role, too, not just as an onlooker.
Now imagine trying to get that visceral first-person response from a photo of missionary sex. You'd either see a section of pillow, a scary-close view of a face, or a weirdly foreshortened stretch of two torsos, depending on the angle. And that's assuming the cameraman had room to get in there and work at all. I've seen a few such pictures on porn sites, but they looked awkward, impractical and funny-looking, not at all sexy.
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:44 AM on July 8, 2006
I think deadfather had it right, it's about the man being in charge and receiving the pleasure. He also makes a good point that it doesn't happen nearly often enough in real life. Ah, marriage.
posted by JamesMessick at 8:24 AM on July 8, 2006
posted by JamesMessick at 8:24 AM on July 8, 2006
No, fisting is the new anal.
posted by crabintheocean at 8:55 AM on July 8, 2006
Getting a bj requires absolutely no sexual prowess.I beg to differ. The sexual prowess of the recipient is directly related to the enjoyment of giving one, maybe more so. If you're fucking, even if the person's a douchebag you're still getting fucked. There is a hot way to get a blowjob and a really un-hot way. There's a huge difference between blowing someone who's pulling your hair vs. pulling your ears, knowing what nasty shit to whisper vs. mumbling "omg thank you thank you thank you this is so amazing you're really the best you really don't have to do that but i so totally appreciate it."
posted by crabintheocean at 8:55 AM on July 8, 2006
Being heterosexual must really suck sometimes (pun intended)!
As a gay man, this just doesn't seem to be an issue for me.
posted by matty at 10:14 AM on July 8, 2006
As a gay man, this just doesn't seem to be an issue for me.
posted by matty at 10:14 AM on July 8, 2006
He also makes a good point that it doesn't happen nearly often enough in real life.
Okay, speaking as a woman in tristeza's camp (that would be Camp Blowjob), I have to ask: is it really so rare in real life to find a female partner who frequently, happily, and voluntarily gives oral sex? I mean, when I heard about the faux-holiday "Steak and Blowjob Day," I turned to my boyfriend and said, "the only thing special about that is that you don't eat beef on a regular basis."
posted by scody at 11:16 AM on July 8, 2006
Okay, speaking as a woman in tristeza's camp (that would be Camp Blowjob), I have to ask: is it really so rare in real life to find a female partner who frequently, happily, and voluntarily gives oral sex? I mean, when I heard about the faux-holiday "Steak and Blowjob Day," I turned to my boyfriend and said, "the only thing special about that is that you don't eat beef on a regular basis."
posted by scody at 11:16 AM on July 8, 2006
good ass will get you dinner good head will get you a house payment
is it really so rare in real life to find a female partner who frequently, happily, and voluntarily gives oral sex?
I don't know about other women, scody, but the constant cultural message about blowjobs being degrading (and comments such as the one above, I mean, seriously, nice to know that women who give good blow jobs can be viewed as exchanging them for money from their SOs!) have certainly helped to make the act more unpleasant than it needs to be for me. I rather wonder if the increasing prevelence of them in porn and the media hasn't made the whole thing much more baggage-laden than it used to be. Instead of just something you do or don't do as you both prefer, it's become something that makes you frigid if you don't enjoy it but almost whorish if you do. We've culturally accepted that women can enjoy sex, leaving blowjobs as the thing men can complain about not getting enough of (or brag about getting plenty) and women can brag about loving to do (or complain about not enjoying).
posted by ch1x0r at 12:20 PM on July 8, 2006
is it really so rare in real life to find a female partner who frequently, happily, and voluntarily gives oral sex?
I don't know about other women, scody, but the constant cultural message about blowjobs being degrading (and comments such as the one above, I mean, seriously, nice to know that women who give good blow jobs can be viewed as exchanging them for money from their SOs!) have certainly helped to make the act more unpleasant than it needs to be for me. I rather wonder if the increasing prevelence of them in porn and the media hasn't made the whole thing much more baggage-laden than it used to be. Instead of just something you do or don't do as you both prefer, it's become something that makes you frigid if you don't enjoy it but almost whorish if you do. We've culturally accepted that women can enjoy sex, leaving blowjobs as the thing men can complain about not getting enough of (or brag about getting plenty) and women can brag about loving to do (or complain about not enjoying).
posted by ch1x0r at 12:20 PM on July 8, 2006
I agree with randomstriker, I thought anal was the "new hotness" these days. I even heard a phrase which makes me shudder - the "anal ultimatum". I'm guessing this means a guy can feel justified in dumping any girlfriend who refuses to do anal. Isn't that just lovely?
And if fisting is the new anal, then I guess anal fisting is where we go from there.
More and more I am so glad I retired from sex.
posted by beth at 1:29 PM on July 8, 2006
And if fisting is the new anal, then I guess anal fisting is where we go from there.
More and more I am so glad I retired from sex.
posted by beth at 1:29 PM on July 8, 2006
All the armchair Freudianism here is unsubstantiated mutterings of people who want to pretend that media theory precedes porn.
The structural reasons would be: Blowjobs aren't regarded, by the 18- and 19-year-olds who are the prime demographic from whence actors and actresses are culled, as seriously as they used to be. Generally, the trajectory of porn goes: clothed pics, naked pics, blowjob pics, penetration (and usually, there's a stint of nude dancing in there as well). This holds whether the performer is a straight woman or a gay man.
Blowjob pics/video have both a lower societal barrier ("It's not even really sex" justifications) and a lower monetary barrier. They're then included in larger porn collections because there is a subset of people who watch porn who can't get off without them, and the general populace doesn't mind having them included. Same reasoning for facials— some people really like them, and it's a dealbreaker for few men (who are the primary market).
That you've noticed them more is because more and more pseudo-amatuer/indie porn producers are out there (because it's incredibly easy to distribute porn now), and with a lower barrier for entry (no pun intended), that's what you'll see a lot of. There's also the fact that you don't enjoy them, which makes you more likely to notice them inside of a larger experience which you do enjoy. Fake breasts bug the hell out of me, and I go out of my way to avoid porn that has 'em.
What I will say is that "extreme" blowjobs have become more prevalent, at least in my porn watchings, and that cunnilingus is now de riguer. The "extreme" blowjobs (with the gagging and the spitting) both bug me and provide more evidence for the "it's degrading" camp, who I generally believe make life worse for men who like to get their dick sucked.
(As for the anal sex, you could make an argument that inverts Savage's she-male hypothesis— He says that guys who like to watch she-males are mostly straight, but like to see the dick more during sex. People who enjoy watching anal sex might just like to watch sex and unobstructed pussy at the same time).
posted by klangklangston at 1:41 PM on July 8, 2006
The structural reasons would be: Blowjobs aren't regarded, by the 18- and 19-year-olds who are the prime demographic from whence actors and actresses are culled, as seriously as they used to be. Generally, the trajectory of porn goes: clothed pics, naked pics, blowjob pics, penetration (and usually, there's a stint of nude dancing in there as well). This holds whether the performer is a straight woman or a gay man.
Blowjob pics/video have both a lower societal barrier ("It's not even really sex" justifications) and a lower monetary barrier. They're then included in larger porn collections because there is a subset of people who watch porn who can't get off without them, and the general populace doesn't mind having them included. Same reasoning for facials— some people really like them, and it's a dealbreaker for few men (who are the primary market).
That you've noticed them more is because more and more pseudo-amatuer/indie porn producers are out there (because it's incredibly easy to distribute porn now), and with a lower barrier for entry (no pun intended), that's what you'll see a lot of. There's also the fact that you don't enjoy them, which makes you more likely to notice them inside of a larger experience which you do enjoy. Fake breasts bug the hell out of me, and I go out of my way to avoid porn that has 'em.
What I will say is that "extreme" blowjobs have become more prevalent, at least in my porn watchings, and that cunnilingus is now de riguer. The "extreme" blowjobs (with the gagging and the spitting) both bug me and provide more evidence for the "it's degrading" camp, who I generally believe make life worse for men who like to get their dick sucked.
(As for the anal sex, you could make an argument that inverts Savage's she-male hypothesis— He says that guys who like to watch she-males are mostly straight, but like to see the dick more during sex. People who enjoy watching anal sex might just like to watch sex and unobstructed pussy at the same time).
posted by klangklangston at 1:41 PM on July 8, 2006
"I agree with randomstriker, I thought anal was the "new hotness" these days. I even heard a phrase which makes me shudder - the "anal ultimatum". I'm guessing this means a guy can feel justified in dumping any girlfriend who refuses to do anal. Isn't that just lovely?"
Having been the one who likely introduced the phrase "the anal ultimatum" to AskMe, I think I should explain the context that I learned that phrase from.
I have a friend of a friend who we'll call Chris. We, in his larger circle of friends, generally think that he's a closetted gay. He's very attractive, and so is always swamped with women, and when he does get pressured into spending the night with them, he has a habit of sleeping clothed in the same bed, rather than having sex with them (despite their best efforts). One girl who decided that she was going to be the one to have him for a boyfriend wouldn't let it drop, so he gave her the "anal ultimatum": he would have sex with her, but only anal. He rationalized it to us as a solution where he'd either never have to talk to her again or get to try anal sex, but it was pretty clear to all of us that he was relieved when she left him alone.
Since then, the phrase has gotten a life of its own.
But then again, since you've "retired" from having sex, I'm not sure why you feel the need to hold forth on whatever ghastly things kids these days are doing, as it really just makes you sound frigid and prudish.
posted by klangklangston at 1:50 PM on July 8, 2006
Having been the one who likely introduced the phrase "the anal ultimatum" to AskMe, I think I should explain the context that I learned that phrase from.
I have a friend of a friend who we'll call Chris. We, in his larger circle of friends, generally think that he's a closetted gay. He's very attractive, and so is always swamped with women, and when he does get pressured into spending the night with them, he has a habit of sleeping clothed in the same bed, rather than having sex with them (despite their best efforts). One girl who decided that she was going to be the one to have him for a boyfriend wouldn't let it drop, so he gave her the "anal ultimatum": he would have sex with her, but only anal. He rationalized it to us as a solution where he'd either never have to talk to her again or get to try anal sex, but it was pretty clear to all of us that he was relieved when she left him alone.
Since then, the phrase has gotten a life of its own.
But then again, since you've "retired" from having sex, I'm not sure why you feel the need to hold forth on whatever ghastly things kids these days are doing, as it really just makes you sound frigid and prudish.
posted by klangklangston at 1:50 PM on July 8, 2006
"Are You There God? It's Me, Monica"--How Nice Girls Got So Casual About Oral Sex (or maybe not).
posted by kirkaracha at 2:32 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by kirkaracha at 2:32 PM on July 8, 2006
but the constant cultural message about blowjobs being degrading (and comments such as the one above, I mean, seriously, nice to know that women who give good blow jobs can be viewed as exchanging them for money from their SOs!) have certainly helped to make the act more unpleasant than it needs to be for me. [...] it's become something that makes you frigid if you don't enjoy it but almost whorish if you do.
ch1x0r, I don't mean to argue with your experience at all, but I guess that I just don't see (or haven't experienced) "the constant cultural message about blowjobs being degrading," nor the message that it's "almost whorish" to enjoy them. (And this is absolutely not to suggest I don't see a lot of negative cultural messages about women and sex in the media, fashion industry, etc.) Can you point to some (non-pr0n) examples of this? I've honestly never felt degraded giving a blowjob -- just as I couldn't fathom that a male partner would feel degraded by going down on me. Oral contact with a partner's genitals has always just struck me as a natural sexual impulse (and most certainly not whorish), regardless of the gender of the giver or the receiver. In fact, far from being degrading, I actually find it exhilariating and even -- to trot out a cliche -- empowering to give that kind of pleasure in such an intimate way.
posted by scody at 7:20 PM on July 8, 2006
ch1x0r, I don't mean to argue with your experience at all, but I guess that I just don't see (or haven't experienced) "the constant cultural message about blowjobs being degrading," nor the message that it's "almost whorish" to enjoy them. (And this is absolutely not to suggest I don't see a lot of negative cultural messages about women and sex in the media, fashion industry, etc.) Can you point to some (non-pr0n) examples of this? I've honestly never felt degraded giving a blowjob -- just as I couldn't fathom that a male partner would feel degraded by going down on me. Oral contact with a partner's genitals has always just struck me as a natural sexual impulse (and most certainly not whorish), regardless of the gender of the giver or the receiver. In fact, far from being degrading, I actually find it exhilariating and even -- to trot out a cliche -- empowering to give that kind of pleasure in such an intimate way.
posted by scody at 7:20 PM on July 8, 2006
Can you point to some (non-pr0n) examples of this?
I already pointed out an example, in this thread, of a degrading remark made about women that give good blowjobs. If you're unconvinced, I'm really not up to convincing you.
posted by ch1x0r at 10:46 PM on July 8, 2006
I already pointed out an example, in this thread, of a degrading remark made about women that give good blowjobs. If you're unconvinced, I'm really not up to convincing you.
posted by ch1x0r at 10:46 PM on July 8, 2006
One asshole's stupid, sexist remark in AskMe does not equal "constant cultural messages." I'd argue that, on the non-porn cultural level, if anything oral sex has practically been normalized. Which is not to dispute there may indeed be plenty of mixed (rather than monolithic) messages out there about oral sex (hence guys who are dense enough to construct it as "getting serviced"), but I fail to see how that's significantly different from the myriad mixed messages we receive about women's bodies and sexuality every day. Which is why I asked (politely, I thought) for an example. Otherwise how do you explain how women like me have managed to enjoy giving oral sex all these years without once feeling degraded (and without having partners treat us in anything other than a positive way for engaging in it)? I mean, if the message is constant that I'm a whore, either A) I and every single one of my partners have been in denial of my being a whore, or B) we've all somehow managed to exempt outselves from the culture at large for the past 20 years. Surely it's more complex than that. (I dunno, maybe it was just that copy of The Joy of Sex that I stumbled upon at age 9 that pre-emptively overrode the "oral sex = dirty slut" notion in my mind.) But if you're not up for having a conversation in good faith, I'm not up to convincing you.
posted by scody at 11:31 PM on July 8, 2006
posted by scody at 11:31 PM on July 8, 2006
Come shot:
Jeremy Robinson argues that "pornography has the problem of representing the unrepresentable" – that is, trying to capture intimate sexual activities on film or video[2]. Over the last several decades, pornography producers have tried to capture this "unrepresentable" element by making and more and more "explicit" depictions that include close-ups of genitals, penetration, and ejaculation.posted by pracowity at 12:36 AM on July 9, 2006
scody:
I haven't come across a lot of "blowjob = degrading" stuff either, except for a link on MeFi to a feminist blog and ensuing discussion about it, which made it clear that there are a lot of people who think that, but certainly no majority. However, it may be that it is a common idea in certain groups, and that if your selection of sexual partners intersects with that group, you may come across it a lot. That is, (and this is purely hypothetical), if you tend to go out with very socially conscious folks who are into gender political theory, you may find the idea quite prevalent.
posted by Bugbread at 6:08 AM on July 9, 2006
I haven't come across a lot of "blowjob = degrading" stuff either, except for a link on MeFi to a feminist blog and ensuing discussion about it, which made it clear that there are a lot of people who think that, but certainly no majority. However, it may be that it is a common idea in certain groups, and that if your selection of sexual partners intersects with that group, you may come across it a lot. That is, (and this is purely hypothetical), if you tend to go out with very socially conscious folks who are into gender political theory, you may find the idea quite prevalent.
posted by Bugbread at 6:08 AM on July 9, 2006
if you tend to go out with very socially conscious folks who are into gender political theory, you may find the idea quite prevalent.
I think it's a pretty widespread idea actually. The socially conscious follks might be the ones talking about it, but for a lot of other people it's just a given. Think about casual insults... "suck it, bitch"? "blow me"?
posted by crabintheocean at 5:51 PM on July 30, 2006
I think it's a pretty widespread idea actually. The socially conscious follks might be the ones talking about it, but for a lot of other people it's just a given. Think about casual insults... "suck it, bitch"? "blow me"?
posted by crabintheocean at 5:51 PM on July 30, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by hodyoaten at 8:49 PM on July 7, 2006