I don't deserve my husband.
June 11, 2006 8:29 AM Subscribe
We've been together for a little more than ten years. He's an all around nice level-headed guy and we share many interests. He's very handsome and I am attracted to him still. However, I've cheated on him a couple of times since we've been together. No sex. But recently, the invitation was offered...by me. The invitation was declined - good thing but of course I badly wanted it to happen as the chemistry was intense. It was purely lust in both incidences but neither led to sex.
I am wondering why I got married in the first place. I do care for my husband very much and enjoy spending time with him. We go out together, we do day trips, etc. Sex is good but not great. I have tried communicating this with him many times but nothing really changes. Either way, I still love him immensely and love being with him so I'm not sure why I let myself do these things. Naturally, I don't trust myself... After the first time, I tried to work on my "hormones" by focusing only on him but now, I find myself back in the same spot.
Should I let him go so he can find someone better (we're both in our mid-30s) or try to change...
Um, I think you probably need to clarify some things for yourself first. You claim you've cheated, but no sex? No sex ==no cheating, unless you're pulling a Clinton. If it was 'only' oral sex or whatnot, it's still sex, so saying 'no sex because there was no actual intercourse' is a bit of a cop-out.
Get a marriage counsellor. Yourself first, and then with your husband.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:42 AM on June 11, 2006
Get a marriage counsellor. Yourself first, and then with your husband.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:42 AM on June 11, 2006
Only he can decide whether or not he wants to be with you, whether or not you "deserve" him. So, the real problem is ... what, then? You feel guilty and want to not feel guilty anymore? You just consistently want better sex? I'd figure out what I really wanted and whether I was going to be able to get that while being with him. I would not make a decision out of a guess at what someone else wants or deserves. Wouldn't that be sad, to divorce him "for his own good?"
On the chance that "what you want" is just guilt-free sex with other people, I'll say, I did know a married couple where someone's wife was aware he would occasionally have sex with other women, but through an agreement they had, she looked the other way. To her, it was worth it to have someone who "loved [her] immensely and loved being with [her]." I don't know that I could do that, or that your husband could. I'm just sayin', some people solve a problem similar to what you described in ways that did not involve divorce.
posted by ruff at 8:59 AM on June 11, 2006
On the chance that "what you want" is just guilt-free sex with other people, I'll say, I did know a married couple where someone's wife was aware he would occasionally have sex with other women, but through an agreement they had, she looked the other way. To her, it was worth it to have someone who "loved [her] immensely and loved being with [her]." I don't know that I could do that, or that your husband could. I'm just sayin', some people solve a problem similar to what you described in ways that did not involve divorce.
posted by ruff at 8:59 AM on June 11, 2006
sex isn't everything ... and you're never going to find a perfect relationship with anyone ... you have a good marriage and a good life
do you really want to change that? ... and if so, why? ... a little counseling might help you answer those questions ... and the question of what you feel is missing from your life ... and, no, i don't think it's just great sex
it's not a question of having what you want, but wanting what you have
oh, and for pete's sake don't tell him you've tried to go out on him
posted by pyramid termite at 9:09 AM on June 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
do you really want to change that? ... and if so, why? ... a little counseling might help you answer those questions ... and the question of what you feel is missing from your life ... and, no, i don't think it's just great sex
it's not a question of having what you want, but wanting what you have
oh, and for pete's sake don't tell him you've tried to go out on him
posted by pyramid termite at 9:09 AM on June 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
What's that French expression? A happy marriage can be so heavy, it sometimes takes three to carry it?
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:14 AM on June 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:14 AM on June 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
if possible, "open" up the marriage & mix it up with others. there are apparantly 3 million "swingers" (in the us), so it's not uncommon. maybe there's a way to bring it into your realtionship as well
posted by growabrain at 9:16 AM on June 11, 2006
posted by growabrain at 9:16 AM on June 11, 2006
I highly suggest going down to your local library and finding the February, 2006 issue of National Geographic. The cover story, about love, has some interesting findings and perspectives on the physiological and biochemical processes that constitute romance, physical attraction, and long-term attachment. These are distinct physiological responses with different triggers, different chemical profiles, and different "shelf lives."
In a nutshell, I think we make these questions a lot more complicated than they need to be. NO AMOUNT of thought, soul-searching, or consideration is going to make you feel differently toward your husband's cock. You can change your behaviors together and trigger a shift in which chemicals you produce around each other, but you can't make that happen by just willing it.
Either you have the patience to undertake such behavioral changes, or you don't. But fer fuck's sake take pity on the man and make a decision. What you're doing has the potential to wound him mortally and saddle you with crushing guilt for the rest of your life. There's no fuck worth that.
posted by scarabic at 9:34 AM on June 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
In a nutshell, I think we make these questions a lot more complicated than they need to be. NO AMOUNT of thought, soul-searching, or consideration is going to make you feel differently toward your husband's cock. You can change your behaviors together and trigger a shift in which chemicals you produce around each other, but you can't make that happen by just willing it.
Either you have the patience to undertake such behavioral changes, or you don't. But fer fuck's sake take pity on the man and make a decision. What you're doing has the potential to wound him mortally and saddle you with crushing guilt for the rest of your life. There's no fuck worth that.
posted by scarabic at 9:34 AM on June 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
If you care enough about him, you wouldn't be interested in anyone else.
How would you feel if he does the same thing to you? Would you feel hurt?
My suggestion is to come clean with him and see a counselor if you want to save your marriage.
posted by teapot at 10:27 AM on June 11, 2006
How would you feel if he does the same thing to you? Would you feel hurt?
My suggestion is to come clean with him and see a counselor if you want to save your marriage.
posted by teapot at 10:27 AM on June 11, 2006
On the chance that "what you want" is just guilt-free sex with other people, I'll say, I did know a married couple where someone's wife was aware he would occasionally have sex with other women, but through an agreement they had, she looked the other way
It seems like women would be more willing to put up with this then men, according evolutionary psychology (and tested by studies, etc). Women don't have to worry about raising some child that's not theirs, but men do. Women are more worried about their men emotionally (and financially) supporting other women then just sex, while men are more worried about just sex.
If you're discreet and make sure the guy wears a condom, I mean, what your husband doesn't know won't hurt him. *shrug* Still it would be better for everyone if you just keep your pants on, assuming you really love the guy.
posted by delmoi at 10:58 AM on June 11, 2006
It seems like women would be more willing to put up with this then men, according evolutionary psychology (and tested by studies, etc). Women don't have to worry about raising some child that's not theirs, but men do. Women are more worried about their men emotionally (and financially) supporting other women then just sex, while men are more worried about just sex.
If you're discreet and make sure the guy wears a condom, I mean, what your husband doesn't know won't hurt him. *shrug* Still it would be better for everyone if you just keep your pants on, assuming you really love the guy.
posted by delmoi at 10:58 AM on June 11, 2006
if possible, "open" up the marriage & mix it up with others. there are apparantly 3 million "swingers" (in the us), so it's not uncommon. maybe there's a way to bring it into your relationship as well
Yeah, you should bring this up with him, if he's a horny guy. A lot of men would get really turned on if their women were interested in something like this, although some (ridiculous) guys would be turned off.
posted by delmoi at 11:00 AM on June 11, 2006
Yeah, you should bring this up with him, if he's a horny guy. A lot of men would get really turned on if their women were interested in something like this, although some (ridiculous) guys would be turned off.
posted by delmoi at 11:00 AM on June 11, 2006
This bit: I am wondering why I got married in the first place and this bit: Either way, I still love him immensely and love being with him don't seem to match up. Isn't the answer to statement A something to do with statement B?
My advice is to come clean - you'll never be able to communicate properly together if you're beating yourself up about cheating and keeping secrets. Talk talk and talk some more, find a counsellor if you think that'd help and if it's true you love him immensely don't give up.
You may find a more open sexual relationship is the answer, and he's ok with that, but equally sex could be the dealbreaker and it won't work out. Or maybe the issues you have with being attracted to other people are part of a deeper dissatisfaction with your marriage. Most important thing? Don't enter into any dialogue with your partner with the stated aim of persuading him to accept you having other sexual partners. Sure fire way to having a blazing row, trust me.
posted by girlwonder at 11:14 AM on June 11, 2006
My advice is to come clean - you'll never be able to communicate properly together if you're beating yourself up about cheating and keeping secrets. Talk talk and talk some more, find a counsellor if you think that'd help and if it's true you love him immensely don't give up.
You may find a more open sexual relationship is the answer, and he's ok with that, but equally sex could be the dealbreaker and it won't work out. Or maybe the issues you have with being attracted to other people are part of a deeper dissatisfaction with your marriage. Most important thing? Don't enter into any dialogue with your partner with the stated aim of persuading him to accept you having other sexual partners. Sure fire way to having a blazing row, trust me.
posted by girlwonder at 11:14 AM on June 11, 2006
I cannot imagine being in a marriage and knowing that last night my wife was with another man. Open marriages? Why bother? Just for the insurance?
posted by Bud Dickman at 11:19 AM on June 11, 2006
posted by Bud Dickman at 11:19 AM on June 11, 2006
Let the man go. Be fair to him. And tell him what you've done so he doesn't drive himself crazy trying to figure out what went wrong.
posted by foxinthesnow at 12:01 PM on June 11, 2006
posted by foxinthesnow at 12:01 PM on June 11, 2006
You're treading in a minefield, anon. I can't tell you whether you should cut your husband loose or try to make your marriage work based on a paragraph. I say see a therapist and see if he/she can help you decide what to do. But I don't think confessing to your husband is a good idea, especially if you continue to lust after other men. In the meantime, can you satiate your urges by fantasizing? And until you decide what to do, do not put your self in those dangerous situations i.e. alone with a man you find attractive.
posted by Devils Slide at 12:17 PM on June 11, 2006
posted by Devils Slide at 12:17 PM on June 11, 2006
The best thing that the woman who cheated on me did was to let me know and give me the option to do what I wanted with the information. I opted to leave her since I could no longer trust her in any way. But your husband may love you enough that he'll overlook your indiscretions. If you feel the need to go outside your marriage to get something you need, be upfront about it, be as honest as you can. After that, let him decide if he wants to find someone better.
posted by lekvar at 12:44 PM on June 11, 2006
posted by lekvar at 12:44 PM on June 11, 2006
You claim you've cheated, but no sex? No sex ==no cheatingThis is absolutely not true at all. Cheating is about betraying someone's trust, it's not about playing the "is this act in column A or column B" game. I don't know what planet you live on but I know that on the one I live on there are millions of people that would consider it cheating if they found their husband or wife fooling around with someone on the side, despite lack of vaginal penetration.
The poster considers it cheating, which means that her partner probably would too. That is all that matters for this discussion, and trying to impose your own twisted definition of cheating onto the discussion is just a derail.
posted by Rhomboid at 12:53 PM on June 11, 2006
Interestingly, two days ago I split from an eight year relationship with similar circumstances (I was the cheater).
I think it's very important to evaluate the personality dynamics in your relationship before you decide what action to take.
Your wording leads me to believe that your are the more assertive half of the relationship, but it's possible that your emotional obligations to him prevent you from empowering yourself on both fronts - an intensity to cheat, and yet hesitant to trust yourself - is like having your cake, and eating it too. There's definitely value in your relationship with him, but it may not be in the same fundamental currency you deem 'intense chemistry'. And thus given points considered, I assert this definitely isn't about raw sex.
Alas, that was my self evaluation. I love(d) her immensely.. We got along perfectly, I prized every moment.. And yet would find myself in bed with more physically attractive women - in attempts to 'protect' my relationship with her by masking my infidelities to the lowest common denominator, ie raw sex.
But I began wandering because there was something viscerally incompatible with our personalities. I found that all the women I cheated with were all progressive, free-thinking; she was conservative and traditional. If there's a common thread such as that with your partners, you're off to a good start.
And in my opinion, don't reveal your actions simply because you feel a noble tendency to let him know. If there's an initiative streak to cheat and consider how to play these cards the way you're displaying, there's probably a sense of duty to protect him from emotional harm. Weigh the options, and distribute the load for his comfort. You've already shown the willingness to carry burden.
posted by deceptiv at 1:24 PM on June 11, 2006
I think it's very important to evaluate the personality dynamics in your relationship before you decide what action to take.
Your wording leads me to believe that your are the more assertive half of the relationship, but it's possible that your emotional obligations to him prevent you from empowering yourself on both fronts - an intensity to cheat, and yet hesitant to trust yourself - is like having your cake, and eating it too. There's definitely value in your relationship with him, but it may not be in the same fundamental currency you deem 'intense chemistry'. And thus given points considered, I assert this definitely isn't about raw sex.
Alas, that was my self evaluation. I love(d) her immensely.. We got along perfectly, I prized every moment.. And yet would find myself in bed with more physically attractive women - in attempts to 'protect' my relationship with her by masking my infidelities to the lowest common denominator, ie raw sex.
But I began wandering because there was something viscerally incompatible with our personalities. I found that all the women I cheated with were all progressive, free-thinking; she was conservative and traditional. If there's a common thread such as that with your partners, you're off to a good start.
And in my opinion, don't reveal your actions simply because you feel a noble tendency to let him know. If there's an initiative streak to cheat and consider how to play these cards the way you're displaying, there's probably a sense of duty to protect him from emotional harm. Weigh the options, and distribute the load for his comfort. You've already shown the willingness to carry burden.
posted by deceptiv at 1:24 PM on June 11, 2006
If you care enough about him, you wouldn't be interested in anyone else.
Is that even biologically possible?
I'm on the fence as to whether I'd want to know about a cheating spouse or not. I have a feeling I'd definitely want to know, until I knew, and then that would change everything and I'd want to not know anymore.
I have no idea how to help you decide if you should stay with him or not. Keep in mind that if you decide to stay with him, it won't be a single, final decision; you will have to keep making the decision for the rest of your life.
posted by ODiV at 1:30 PM on June 11, 2006
Is that even biologically possible?
I'm on the fence as to whether I'd want to know about a cheating spouse or not. I have a feeling I'd definitely want to know, until I knew, and then that would change everything and I'd want to not know anymore.
I have no idea how to help you decide if you should stay with him or not. Keep in mind that if you decide to stay with him, it won't be a single, final decision; you will have to keep making the decision for the rest of your life.
posted by ODiV at 1:30 PM on June 11, 2006
If you care enough about him, you wouldn't be interested in anyone else.
Now, that's a sanctimonious piece of crock if I've ever read one. Being "interested" in other people is bound to happen to anyone (even those hypocrites who swear otherwise). Of course, it's how one acts on that interest that shows one's level of commitment to a relationship.
Dialogue (with or without the help of a counselor) is the only way to go if you care about this relationship.
posted by bluefrog at 2:17 PM on June 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Now, that's a sanctimonious piece of crock if I've ever read one. Being "interested" in other people is bound to happen to anyone (even those hypocrites who swear otherwise). Of course, it's how one acts on that interest that shows one's level of commitment to a relationship.
Dialogue (with or without the help of a counselor) is the only way to go if you care about this relationship.
posted by bluefrog at 2:17 PM on June 11, 2006 [1 favorite]
Something's afoot. Either you've got impulse control issues (a la bipolar disorder) that make things like this seem like a good deal or you're not being honest with yourself.
Ask yourself if "I don't deserve him" is your guilt-laden way for giving yourself an excuse to get out of a marriage you're not into. Maybe it's not.
Maybe he is truly a great guy that gives you absolutely everything you need emotionally and physically. Only you know that.
So basically, therapy or whatever it takes to make you honest with yourself, should help you sort it out.
posted by Gucky at 3:56 PM on June 11, 2006
Ask yourself if "I don't deserve him" is your guilt-laden way for giving yourself an excuse to get out of a marriage you're not into. Maybe it's not.
Maybe he is truly a great guy that gives you absolutely everything you need emotionally and physically. Only you know that.
So basically, therapy or whatever it takes to make you honest with yourself, should help you sort it out.
posted by Gucky at 3:56 PM on June 11, 2006
Quit acting out your "stuff" and get thee to a good therapist quickly with the goal of figuring out what you really really really want.
Once what you really really really want and your life is lined up - it (whatever it is) will work.
Have courage, it's not easy.
posted by trii at 4:57 PM on June 11, 2006
Once what you really really really want and your life is lined up - it (whatever it is) will work.
Have courage, it's not easy.
posted by trii at 4:57 PM on June 11, 2006
Yes, get therapy. That said; if you can't manage to be monogamous, your husband deserves to know that and deserves to have a chance to find someone who does deserve him. Tell him so that he can move on.
posted by Justinian at 5:18 PM on June 11, 2006
posted by Justinian at 5:18 PM on June 11, 2006
You're lying to the poor guy every day you don't tell him you've cheated. If you truly care about him, and aren't a horribly selfish human, you owe it to him to be honest. Seriously.
Even if you do decide you want to "change" it's up to him to decide if he'll give you that opportunity.
Can't trust your hormones out in public? Then don't put them in situations where they'll get the best of you. Quit your job, quit your friends, quit whatever social activities that got you into these situations in the first place. And if you're not willing to do that it sounds like you're not responsible enough to be married at this point in your life.
posted by b_thinky at 5:35 PM on June 11, 2006
Even if you do decide you want to "change" it's up to him to decide if he'll give you that opportunity.
Can't trust your hormones out in public? Then don't put them in situations where they'll get the best of you. Quit your job, quit your friends, quit whatever social activities that got you into these situations in the first place. And if you're not willing to do that it sounds like you're not responsible enough to be married at this point in your life.
posted by b_thinky at 5:35 PM on June 11, 2006
Argh! I always wish I could answer first without getting lost in the clump of answers somewhere in the middle.
Check out a book called The Five Love Languages. The problem seems to be that you may be getting some particular exciting aspect out of these other men, that they communicate to you on some "other" level that is so vibrantly appealing that you may not be receiving from hubby, perhaps that you may not even realize. Everyone tends to interpret expressions of love in generally five broad "languages", with mixtures that make up various dialects, as it were. Read this book with hubby, and I swear you will both learn how to very accurately speak each other's language as each best receives it and not be able to keep yourselves apart. I will buy you a copy of this book, if you want.
posted by vanoakenfold at 9:28 PM on June 11, 2006
Check out a book called The Five Love Languages. The problem seems to be that you may be getting some particular exciting aspect out of these other men, that they communicate to you on some "other" level that is so vibrantly appealing that you may not be receiving from hubby, perhaps that you may not even realize. Everyone tends to interpret expressions of love in generally five broad "languages", with mixtures that make up various dialects, as it were. Read this book with hubby, and I swear you will both learn how to very accurately speak each other's language as each best receives it and not be able to keep yourselves apart. I will buy you a copy of this book, if you want.
posted by vanoakenfold at 9:28 PM on June 11, 2006
Either get counselling and learn to control yourself or divorce and forget it. You're playing with fire. You may think you know someone, but there's really no way to predict a reaction. Were he to find this out on his own it might lead to him filing for divorce with this as ammunition or there's always the violently angry reaction that will end badly. Then again, he might just forgive you but I wouldn't count on it.
posted by IronLizard at 10:24 PM on June 11, 2006
posted by IronLizard at 10:24 PM on June 11, 2006
Can't trust your hormones out in public? Then don't put them in situations where they'll get the best of you. Quit your job, quit your friends, quit whatever social activities that got you into these situations in the first place.
Absolutely. Additionally, she should kill herself, preferably by self-stoning, if no stoning group of elders can be procured in the vicinity.
A lot of men would get really turned on if their women were interested in something like this, although some (ridiculous) guys would be turned off.
Even better advice, swinging is so the perfect solution to one-sided cheating!
Or, you know, it might be more honest to act mature and responsible and decide if she wants to stay married or not, before she offloads her guilt on the unsuspecting husband and hands the hot potato to him. All the 'he doesn't deserve me' means nothing if she can't make up her mind first.
posted by funambulist at 2:44 AM on June 12, 2006
Absolutely. Additionally, she should kill herself, preferably by self-stoning, if no stoning group of elders can be procured in the vicinity.
A lot of men would get really turned on if their women were interested in something like this, although some (ridiculous) guys would be turned off.
Even better advice, swinging is so the perfect solution to one-sided cheating!
Or, you know, it might be more honest to act mature and responsible and decide if she wants to stay married or not, before she offloads her guilt on the unsuspecting husband and hands the hot potato to him. All the 'he doesn't deserve me' means nothing if she can't make up her mind first.
posted by funambulist at 2:44 AM on June 12, 2006
Or even, 'it might be more responsible to be honest', it's kind of interchangeable...
posted by funambulist at 2:44 AM on June 12, 2006
posted by funambulist at 2:44 AM on June 12, 2006
Rhomboid writes "This is absolutely not true at all. Cheating is about betraying someone's trust, it's not about playing the 'is this act in column A or column B' game. I don't know what planet you live on but I know that on the one I live on there are millions of people that would consider it cheating if they found their husband or wife fooling around with someone on the side, despite lack of vaginal penetration."
You'll also notice that my statement only works if you're using the Clinton definition of sex.
Rhomboid writes "The poster considers it cheating, which means that her partner probably would too. That is all that matters for this discussion, and trying to impose your own twisted definition of cheating onto the discussion is just a derail."
Trying to impose your own twisted version of reading into the discussion is just a derail. Seriously, did you read what I wrote? Allow me to say it again:
No sex ==no cheating, unless you're pulling a Clinton. If it was 'only' oral sex or whatnot, it's still sex, so saying 'no sex because there was no actual intercourse' is a bit of a cop-out.
Got it? Good. Actually reading really isn't that difficult, you know.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:23 AM on June 12, 2006
You'll also notice that my statement only works if you're using the Clinton definition of sex.
Rhomboid writes "The poster considers it cheating, which means that her partner probably would too. That is all that matters for this discussion, and trying to impose your own twisted definition of cheating onto the discussion is just a derail."
Trying to impose your own twisted version of reading into the discussion is just a derail. Seriously, did you read what I wrote? Allow me to say it again:
No sex ==no cheating, unless you're pulling a Clinton. If it was 'only' oral sex or whatnot, it's still sex, so saying 'no sex because there was no actual intercourse' is a bit of a cop-out.
Got it? Good. Actually reading really isn't that difficult, you know.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:23 AM on June 12, 2006
It's all in the intent, dirty. By the sound of it, this will just continue until the poster does it. Also, being faithful doesn't just mean avoiding penetration.
posted by IronLizard at 4:29 AM on June 12, 2006
posted by IronLizard at 4:29 AM on June 12, 2006
BUT THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS SAYING.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 7:38 AM on June 12, 2006
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 7:38 AM on June 12, 2006
No, that sill makes no sense. Does kissing qualify as sex in your world? Because plenty of people would consider it cheating if a committed partner was caught making out with someone else. But I don't see how you can call that sex in any way.
And even if there is zero physical aspect to it, many marriages have been broken over what you might call emotional cheating -- spending time, sharing deep thoughts, opening one's self to a third party, to the detriment of the husband/wife who gets ignored and shunted. And there is absolutely zero sex involved here.
I will say it again -- cheating has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with trust.
posted by Rhomboid at 1:12 PM on June 12, 2006
And even if there is zero physical aspect to it, many marriages have been broken over what you might call emotional cheating -- spending time, sharing deep thoughts, opening one's self to a third party, to the detriment of the husband/wife who gets ignored and shunted. And there is absolutely zero sex involved here.
I will say it again -- cheating has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with trust.
posted by Rhomboid at 1:12 PM on June 12, 2006
I reckon you've got about 10-15 more years of attractiveness and good sex. Then what? You'll still have another couple decades in which it would be really nice to have a companion, but in which sex is pretty much non-existent. So it's your choice - tell the guy that after 10 years you've decided you want sex now so bad that you're willing to risk a lonely old age to get it.
Of course, if you've been married for over 10 years and you're in your mid-30s, you almost certainly married too early. You're dying to see what's out there, maybe he is too. You should talk about it, even if you do have to start the conversation by saying, "I know I'm bringing this up about 10 years too late, but..."
posted by Mr. Gunn at 3:25 PM on June 12, 2006
Of course, if you've been married for over 10 years and you're in your mid-30s, you almost certainly married too early. You're dying to see what's out there, maybe he is too. You should talk about it, even if you do have to start the conversation by saying, "I know I'm bringing this up about 10 years too late, but..."
posted by Mr. Gunn at 3:25 PM on June 12, 2006
I think there may be an attempt to escape from the fear that emotional intimacy brings with it. Get therapy.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:50 AM on June 13, 2006
posted by Ironmouth at 9:50 AM on June 13, 2006
I will say it again -- cheating has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with trust.
I never said otherwise. FFS, do none of you people read? I was looking specifically at attempts at justification, and saying -- explicitly, I thought -- that cheating is not just about penetration.
For God's sake. READ.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:14 AM on June 16, 2006
I never said otherwise. FFS, do none of you people read? I was looking specifically at attempts at justification, and saying -- explicitly, I thought -- that cheating is not just about penetration.
For God's sake. READ.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:14 AM on June 16, 2006
Um, I think you probably need to clarify some things for yourself first. You claim you've cheated, but no sex? No sex ==no cheating, unless you're pulling a Clinton. If it was 'only' oral sex or whatnot, it's still sex, so saying 'no sex because there was no actual intercourse' is a bit of a cop-out.
Stop quibling. We read. This paragraph quite clearly stated the opinion that there is no cheating without sex of SOME KIND. We know what sex means, ok? Others, including myself, are of the opinion that just the ATTEMPT is considered cheating because it violates the trust that is vital to any marriage. This includes lying about it, even by omission. Glad we got that cleared up.
posted by IronLizard at 3:10 AM on June 17, 2006
I'm the one who's quibbling? --two b's, by the way, not one. I see.
For fuck's sake.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:19 AM on June 20, 2006
For fuck's sake.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:19 AM on June 20, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Kirklander at 8:41 AM on June 11, 2006