WiFi with my neighbor?

August 14, 2005 12:53 PM

I'm looking to share an internet connection with my new next door neighbors (my parents). What hardware and advice do I need?

They pay $20/mo. for a second phone line plus $15/mon. for dial-up. I now pay $50/mo. for an (advertised as) 3-5 mbps DSL connection plus another $10/mo. for a data-only line. We could cut this down to just the DSL if we can figure out a way to share.

However, a few physical limitations make this difficult for me to figure out. I made a cute little picture that shows those and what would be the ideal setup--from what I understand. Does anyone have any specific hardware recommendations to make this work at 802.11g and at a reasonable price?

I'm sure this similar question would be helpful, if the answers weren't over my head. You see, I can turn on WEP. And while that may make me the family geek, it's not like I even know what that means. So, any pointed criticism or tutorials for dummies can't hurt.

Finally, I'm not opposed to stringing ethernet (or something else) between the houses. I just wouldn't know where to start with that either.

posted by glibhamdreck to Computers & Internet (17 answers total)

Your 50' is well within the ethernet limit (~100m). You can easily buy a prefab 100' cable (or have a geekier geek make you one) that you run between the houses. I would reccomend taking a 1" plastic pipe, digging a trench, and running the cable trough that.

To physically connect, it's very easy. You have a router on your parent's end, with a switch built in I assume? Just plug the network cable in one end, run it to your house, and plug it into another switch*! Voila. If you want to set up wireless in your house, you can pug either a wireless gateway or router in (set the router to gateway mode). Or just plug into the switch which you plugged the cable from the router in your parent's place. The router on your parents end will automagically do everything.

If you want to go wireless, I don't think you even need to put directional antennas, though that may help. What you need to do is put the second wireless router (the one at your house) into bridge mode (in the config). This will "bridge" the connections, allowing you to plug stuff in on your end and having it work over the wireless.

*clarification I use 'switch' because most devices sold these days are switches. If you have an old 'hub' that'll also work just fine.
posted by defcom1 at 1:46 PM on August 14, 2005

Another point. I say 100' cable because I've seen them in stores. You can make a cable up to 100m though (~325ft)

If you need to go longer, just put in a switch, and use that to extend. Should work fine!
posted by defcom1 at 1:48 PM on August 14, 2005

Wait a few months for 802.11n to become a standard and you can easily go wireless on that. It's intended to have a much better range than the currently available wireless technologies.
posted by rxrfrx at 4:24 PM on August 14, 2005

If they've been happy with dial-up they'll probably be happy with Wi-Fi. The limestone wall is a potential issue, but you'll only know it if you try. Can you borrow a Wi-Fi switch and receiver from somebody (who will help you set it up)?

Currently I'm in a similar situation, except I'm on the far end. We've got a standard SBC wi-fi enabled router from 2wired, and my computer uses a Microsoft USB receiver. The house connection really never drops, although obviously it isn't as fast as I'd like; it seems to max out at around 150K, with 300K peaks for short intervals.

Now if that doesn't work due to the limestone you may want to add in a directional antenna (lookup "pringles yagi" for a homebuilt version). The trouble with these is that usually you have to modify your equipment that you've just spent big bucks for.

But the ethernet-in-a-pipe thing would probably work, too (and give them better bandwidth). I'm just curious whether you have a window or some other framing element on that side that you can run it through to get outside.
posted by dhartung at 4:46 PM on August 14, 2005

Response by poster: A buried cable won't be easy (down a house, under a sidewalk, down a retaining wall, under a driveway, and in through the window), but I'm looking into it.
posted by glibhamdreck at 5:30 PM on August 14, 2005

Response by poster: Is there a type of cable insulated enough to be strung like a clothsline between the houses and still stand up to Minnesota winters?
posted by glibhamdreck at 5:36 PM on August 14, 2005

Be careful when installing a wired ethernet line between two buildings, you can run into grounding issues. During a storm, even with two buildings only 50' apart, the ground voltage differential can easily be large enough to fry electrical components (in theory ethernet cabling is ground isolated, but I've seen cheap electronics where this isn't the case). Similarly, nearby lightning strikes can induce currents in long ethernet runs that can fry the electronics at either end.

If you're going to run a long exterior network connection, consider using a fiber optic cable instead of a copper cable. Since most inexpensive network equipment doesn't have the option of using fiber optic cables, if you go this route you'll likely have to interconnect by either using ethernet media converters or hubs with a fiber optic uplink.
posted by RichardP at 5:43 PM on August 14, 2005

A standard ethernet cable will withstand a hell of a lot of abuse. Just run a steel wire between the houses, and hang (small zipties) an ethernet cable to it. You will probably have to ground the steel wire, and you may be violating some local ordinances (IANAL/Councilperson/Nosy Neigbour).
Then wrap the bundle in some of that foam insulation you can buy for copper pipes (It's grey, has a hole 1/2" or 1/4" down the middle, split on one side, so it slips right over) and wrap the whole mess in electrical tape. (maybe find something with weather-resistant glue/outdoor version Doesn't need to be electrical tape, I was just thinking the black would camouflage it well)
There may be an outdoor version of Cat 5e, but I've never looked.
posted by defcom1 at 5:43 PM on August 14, 2005

Listen to Richard P! Much smarter answer.
posted by defcom1 at 5:45 PM on August 14, 2005

Is there a type of cable insulated enough to be strung like a clothsline between the houses and still stand up to Minnesota winters?

Standard network cables are probably sturdy enough to stand up to this, if well supported at both ends (although there are cables specifically designed to have superior strength and resistance to environmental conditions, you probably don't need them). However, under no circumstances should you do this if you're in an area that experiences thunderstorms - the cable could act like a lightning rod. Use a fiber optic cable instead of copper cable.
posted by RichardP at 5:53 PM on August 14, 2005

I set up a shared link with my neighbors, about 100' away. I considered ethernet, but was concerned about lightning strikes. Fiber optics looked too expensive.

I ended up using a pair of LinkSys WiFi routers. We each stuck one in a window facing the other. Worked very well.
posted by stoney at 7:38 PM on August 14, 2005

I think people are being overly cautious with regard to the lightning risk (overly cautious on AskMe, who would have thought!). Even if the cable is actually hit the worst thing that could happen is a loss of the cable and the router/switch at each end of it.

You already have several cables running to each house over extended distances outdoors: coaxial cable, telephone cable, and electricity service (even if you don't have all of these, lots of people do). If you don't have a lot of problems with them, why would you have major problems with ethernet?

On the other hand, you can pick up pretty cheap used fiber gear here and there.

I wouldn't make the job harder than it has to be in terms of time effort or money. If you don't want to look at the cable and you already have wireless gear, by all means go for wireless. Otherwise, just string the ethernet cable and see what happens.
posted by Chuckles at 8:04 PM on August 14, 2005

Response by poster: I'm going to do extra grounding and use surge protection. So, I'd like to try to make my own cables. I'm looking at spools now. What do I need: Cat#, Mhz, patch/not, etc.?
posted by glibhamdreck at 8:24 PM on August 14, 2005

Wait, extra grounding? You do not want more grounding than necessary. The ethernet cable shouldn't connect the grounds of the two buildings if that can be avoided. With a loop of such bombastic measures, you could pick up transatlantic AM radio and submarine communication.
posted by springload at 3:18 AM on August 15, 2005

< !-- --->
Wait, extra grounding? You do not want more grounding than necessary. The ethernet cable shouldn't connect the grounds of the two buildings if that can be avoided. With a loop of such bombastic measures, you could pick up transatlantic AM radio and submarine communication.
posted by springload at 3:18 AM PST on August 15 [!]

Cool. :D

Cat 5e or Cat 6, 350Mhz (or higher) is what you need. If you can get solid, go for it, but don't sweat it if you can only get stranded cable. The most important bit is suspending it, as you will be putting some tension on it for a 50' suspension. You also need connectors. I actually reccomend putting in jacks ($5/each for an RJ-45 jack) so that your endpoints you have a nice jack you can just plug in a prefab patch to your switches. It's much neater than just having a 100' cable with ends dangling. Extra plus is it's much easier to install cable into a jack than wiring a plug (IMHO).
posted by defcom1 at 11:35 AM on August 15, 2005

Chuckles: Even if the cable is actually hit the worst thing that could happen is a loss of the cable and the router/switch at each end of it.

Actually, a direct hit would likely destroy every electronic device in both houses. Lightning -> cable -> router -> outlet -> every other outlet.
posted by ryanrs at 6:47 PM on August 15, 2005

ryanrs, It seems much more likely to me that a direct hit would burn the cable through in an instant! Depending on how far out the hit occurred I would be surprised if a router would be damaged at all, given the very high inductance of +/-25' of cable. That actually makes my previous answer quite wrong... I should have said:

Even if the cable is actually hit the worst thing that could happen is a loss of the cable and the router/switch on the closer end.

Anyway, I don't know exactly what the risks are, but people wouldn't get away with clothesline antennas if the risk was anything but low. I don't do that stuff myself, they may well take precautions; however, the transformer isolation in the ethernet standard is a pretty good precaution.
posted by Chuckles at 7:54 PM on August 15, 2005