women never really faint

August 3, 2005 8:04 PM

I'm trying to play the song "Sweet Jane" by the Velvet Underground. I can play the song on guitar or bass. I can sing along to the song. But it all falls apart if I try to do both. Does anyone have any tips for me?

Where it really seems to fall apart is on the first A chord timing. It seems I end up increasing the length that the A is played, decreasing the G and/or D. So that kind of ruins the feel of the song. It's solely when trying to sing. I could play the little riff all day without singing. I guess it doesn't help that the lyrics don't necessarily fall with the chord changes. Any help is appreciated. I'd love to be able to (succesfully) play one of my favorite songs.

posted by 6550 to Media & Arts (11 answers total)

Practice on a yardstick? My best friend in HS swore by it- she'd "play" the song on a yardstick (both hands) and sing, and somehow by feeling (but not hearing) her mistakes, she could correct them without the pressure of making bad music.

I wish I could be more helpful; I only know that's she learned to sing with the guitar, not the whys and wherefores. (There's a very good chance that she was just weird...)
posted by headspace at 8:55 PM on August 3, 2005

Try something easier. I know Sweet Jane seems like it should be easy to play both, but it's deceptively difficult. Especially if you don't usually do that sort of thing.

Try Louie Louie or something and work from there. If you simply must do "Sweet Jane", maybe do only the vocal parts you're capable of, and ease the more difficult one's in as the guitar riff becomes more second nature. That's probably crappy advice, so good luck. It truly is one of the greatest songs ever, btw.
posted by hellbient at 9:11 PM on August 3, 2005

I play bass, guitar and sing at the same time a lot. It's what I do. Not all three at once, of course, but...you know what I mean.

It is going to be easier to strum the song on a guitar while singing than to play bass while singing, SO I would suggest you learn to sing the song while strumming it on guitar first. Get that down real good before you try singing it while playing the bass part.

It is always easier to strum and sing than to play bass and sing.
posted by wsg at 12:03 AM on August 4, 2005

Best answer: Here is my method for hard songs:

1) play the guitar part lots without attempting to sing. Play it with the song or a metronome.

2) After you have done this, sing the along until you make a mistake. As soon as you make one mistake, start from the beginning.

With sweet Jane, the tricky part is that Lou Reed writes a lot of words.
posted by Quartermass at 1:01 AM on August 4, 2005

It's probably no consolation, but I remember reading an interview with Clapton where he said he always had to have another guitar player in his band because he could never learn to play the "Layla" riff and sing the song simultaneously.
posted by timeistight at 1:24 AM on August 4, 2005

No real advice, but to say that I've had the same problem with the same song. If singing and playing is something you want to learn, I'd start on something easier. Maybe "Murder Mystery" ... :p
posted by electric_counterpoint at 1:45 AM on August 4, 2005

Best answer: The bass riff in Sweet Jane is rhythmically irregular and complex enough that it is interfering with the different pattern of the vocal part. (If it were straight 8th notes, like the average U2 song, it would be much easier, and you might try starting with something like "I Will Follow" first.) It's a matter of practice, and it's worth it to master it slowly -- figure out where in the bass riff the vocal attacks occur (it can help to notate the two parts, or find sheet music). Practice it in cells -- a couple of bars at a time. Once it falls into place it will become automatic. Eventually, if you're gonna play bass and sing, you will need the ability to play and sing independent rhythms simultaneously to go forward. By the way, a singing bass player can get a lot of gigs, so don't give up.
posted by realcountrymusic at 5:57 AM on August 4, 2005

This may not help, but I can say that singing and bass playing at the same time for me was an impossibility until, after much frustrating practice, it simply "worked" one day.

It was an amazing "eureka" moment, and suddenly my hands were no longer tied to my mouth. I don't know how many share that experience, but the solution might just be to keep on slogging through.
posted by jalexei at 12:22 PM on August 4, 2005

Response by poster: Thanks for all the ideas.

I've been playing bass and guitar for about 10 years now. I do remember having the eureka moment with playing bass and singing. For a LONG time it didn't work at all but then it started to almost overnight.

I usually don't have problems with songs these days but "Sweet Jane" hasn't clicked. I guess I posted this in the hopes that someone had some trick that made the song work for them. It seems I just need to -gasp- practice the song a lot more until it starts to work.

Again, thanks.
posted by 6550 at 2:10 PM on August 4, 2005

Listening to alternative takes on the song might help as well. For example, the Cowboy Junkies have a version that departs radically from the VU version. It's also much slower, so that might help.
posted by dbarefoot at 4:33 PM on August 4, 2005

Did you just figure the song out by ear? It sounds like you understand intuitively where the chord changes happen, but not technically. i.e., you know how it should sound, and you're attempting to recreate that sound, rather than knowing how many beats each chord lasts for, etc. I recommend figuring out exactly where the changes occur and how the vocal rhythm goes, and even writing out the rhythms in music notation, if you know how. Also, try singing the song without playing the guitar but while tapping your foot to a constant, steady beat. Then do the same with the guitar part without singing. If you can do both of those and your foot-metronome never wavers, you should have little trouble combining them.
posted by ludwig_van at 5:23 PM on August 4, 2005