How do Canadians getting work in the US?
July 5, 2005 8:16 AM Subscribe
StealingYankeeJobsFilter: How hard is it for a Canadian to get a job in the USA?
I am doing grad school in NYC and I would like my SO to come live with me but she can't do that unless she can get a job. She has a university degree in film and we are both Canadian citizens.
Is getting a green card the only way or are there other visa options?
Is this impossible or just next to impossible?
Any tips or personal experience would be great...
I am doing grad school in NYC and I would like my SO to come live with me but she can't do that unless she can get a job. She has a university degree in film and we are both Canadian citizens.
Is getting a green card the only way or are there other visa options?
Is this impossible or just next to impossible?
Any tips or personal experience would be great...
There's the NAFTA professional worker route, but she'll need to have an actual job waiting for her here first.
posted by cmonkey at 9:13 AM on July 5, 2005
posted by cmonkey at 9:13 AM on July 5, 2005
This is probably not all that helpful, but I once worked with a Canadian citizen. It was a constant nightmare for him, trying to stay one step ahead of the immigration authorities. Still, he managed to do it successfully for years, though he had to tread very carefully and actively stay on top of the situation. As for the specifics of what that involves... don't know what to tell you.
posted by Heminator at 9:28 AM on July 5, 2005
posted by Heminator at 9:28 AM on July 5, 2005
If I could piggyback on this question... what about a Canadian who wants to live in the States but not take away work from Americans? I work for myself and have clients here in Canada that I deal with online and maybe only meet face to face once or twice a year. Is this legal? Is there a timecap on how long I could stay?
posted by dobbs at 9:36 AM on July 5, 2005
posted by dobbs at 9:36 AM on July 5, 2005
Best answer: depending on what sort of job she's looking for, it can be Stupidly Easy or painfully hard. The Stupidly Easy path goes through the TN visa which is a work visa category created by NAFTA for specific, mostly white-collar professions (ie. accountants, system analysts, doctors, teachers, etc. there is a list on the State Department page) Enter the US as a tourist, interview with prospective companies, get hired, and go back to the border with a letter from her employer and appropriate credentials (usually university transcript and resume). Pay $50 for the visa, $5 for the I-94 and she can work in the US for a year. At the end of the year, go back to the border with a new letter, same credentials and $50 and re-apply for another year. Repeat ad infinitum or until the US dollar collapses, then head back home.
Every Canadian IT consultant that I know usually goes this route, because it is the most hassle free form. Drawbacks to the TN are --
Drawbacks to the H1-B are --
Then, of course, there's the Elephant In The Room route, which is to drive in to the US as a tourist, not get your passport stamped, and find some nice, quiet job that pays cash and stays totally off the books. I've known a fair number of these folks as well, and they live relatively well with the exception of that "no travelling, because nobody's looking for you if you stay inside the border" thing.
posted by bl1nk at 9:42 AM on July 5, 2005 [2 favorites]
Every Canadian IT consultant that I know usually goes this route, because it is the most hassle free form. Drawbacks to the TN are --
- you have to renew it every year at the border (which isn't bad if you plan on going home every year anyway, or if you work in an American city near the border like, say, Boston or Seattle)
- It's technically possible for the Americans to turn you back in Canada if your paperwork is not in order ... though their scrutiny is more pronounced if you're applying for a TN for a new job, instead of re-applying for a job you currently have
- there's are very specific (some say arbitrary) job descriptions attached to each category -- for example, IT system analysts are supposed to be consultants/help-desk staff and are not supposed to be programmers. If one is applying for a programming job and one's company's job description says programmer, Border Protection will turn them away. If your girlfriend plans on going this route, have her cross reference her prospective job description with the definitions outline in the US DOL Dictionary. Ideally, the descriptions should match, and if she goes as far as convincing her employer to re-write the job description to match the description exactly, then so much the better
- you can't apply for a green card while on a TN. So, if you're planning on staying in the US permanently, and want more freedom to seek jobs or don't want to worry about having to constantly re-apply for new TNs if you switch employers, then you have to go the Painfully Hard Path
Drawbacks to the H1-B are --
- cost
- finite duration of six years, after which she has to leave the US and wait one year before applying to re-enter -- needless to say, if she's planning on getting a Green Card through employment, she needs to start the application as soon as her H1-B is granted
- like the TN, if you switch employers, you have to petition for a new visa.
Then, of course, there's the Elephant In The Room route, which is to drive in to the US as a tourist, not get your passport stamped, and find some nice, quiet job that pays cash and stays totally off the books. I've known a fair number of these folks as well, and they live relatively well with the exception of that "no travelling, because nobody's looking for you if you stay inside the border" thing.
posted by bl1nk at 9:42 AM on July 5, 2005 [2 favorites]
dobbs -- For your purposes, you're looking at an E-2, which is the treaty investor visa (ie. the "Buying Your Way into the Country" route) Essentially, go to the US embassy with at least $50K and the intent to use those funds for starting a business in the states, and the US will give you a visa that can be renewed every five years and will let you stay in the country indefinitely
posted by bl1nk at 10:05 AM on July 5, 2005
posted by bl1nk at 10:05 AM on July 5, 2005
If I could piggyback on this question... what about a Canadian who wants to live in the States but not take away work from Americans? I work for myself and have clients here in Canada that I deal with online and maybe only meet face to face once or twice a year. Is this legal? Is there a timecap on how long I could stay?
If you aren't working in the US (working online for Canadians at a Canadian company isn't working in the US) you can come for 90 days at a stretch without a visa. If you want to stay longer you are going to need to get a visa.
If one is applying for a programming job and one's company's job description says programmer, Border Protection will turn them away.
They could, but only if the agent is a jackass.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:10 AM on July 5, 2005
If you aren't working in the US (working online for Canadians at a Canadian company isn't working in the US) you can come for 90 days at a stretch without a visa. If you want to stay longer you are going to need to get a visa.
If one is applying for a programming job and one's company's job description says programmer, Border Protection will turn them away.
They could, but only if the agent is a jackass.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:10 AM on July 5, 2005
I and my family are Canadian. My brother-in-law was working in California under a TN visa for a couple of years, doing all that was required of him to stay current. A couple of months ago the family decided to move back to Canada, so in preparation for that he drove up to Saskatchewan to look at buying a house some miles outside Swift Current.
He drove to the border crossing and was told by Canadian border guards that his BC license and California plates were a no-go, so he'd have to turn the vehicle around and leave it in the US.
So he turns it around and has to go through US customs on the way back; US customs looks through his vehicle, finds his computer, checks it out, and sees all of the stuff he's been doing for work. The border guy makes the decision that the work that he's doing could be done by an American, so he gives my brother-in-law 10 days to remove himself and his family from the US.
The moral of the story is that it doesn't really matter how clean you keep your nose, all it takes is one person with a badge to send you back home. To follow up on what Pollomacho said, there appear to be a non-insignificant number of agents who are jackasses.
posted by solid-one-love at 10:58 AM on July 5, 2005
He drove to the border crossing and was told by Canadian border guards that his BC license and California plates were a no-go, so he'd have to turn the vehicle around and leave it in the US.
So he turns it around and has to go through US customs on the way back; US customs looks through his vehicle, finds his computer, checks it out, and sees all of the stuff he's been doing for work. The border guy makes the decision that the work that he's doing could be done by an American, so he gives my brother-in-law 10 days to remove himself and his family from the US.
The moral of the story is that it doesn't really matter how clean you keep your nose, all it takes is one person with a badge to send you back home. To follow up on what Pollomacho said, there appear to be a non-insignificant number of agents who are jackasses.
posted by solid-one-love at 10:58 AM on July 5, 2005
To follow up on what Pollomacho said, there appear to be a non-insignificant number of agents who are jackasses.
That may or may not be, however, your brother-in-law's story, if complete, is grounds for appeal. A CBP officer is not supposed to be making those sorts of decisions, only that the person fulfills the qualifications for the job description. Taking a job from an American is grounds for denial of a TN visa. Speaking of qualifications for job descriptions:
there's are very specific (some say arbitrary) job descriptions attached to each category -- for example, IT system analysts are supposed to be consultants/help-desk staff and are not supposed to be programmers.
The list is in your first link. Incidentally, IT system analysts would fall under "Computer Systems Analysts" no? You can always apply at a consulate for the TN visa thereby avoiding any CBP problems.
See here for more info.
posted by Pollomacho at 11:40 AM on July 5, 2005
That may or may not be, however, your brother-in-law's story, if complete, is grounds for appeal. A CBP officer is not supposed to be making those sorts of decisions, only that the person fulfills the qualifications for the job description. Taking a job from an American is grounds for denial of a TN visa. Speaking of qualifications for job descriptions:
there's are very specific (some say arbitrary) job descriptions attached to each category -- for example, IT system analysts are supposed to be consultants/help-desk staff and are not supposed to be programmers.
The list is in your first link. Incidentally, IT system analysts would fall under "Computer Systems Analysts" no? You can always apply at a consulate for the TN visa thereby avoiding any CBP problems.
See here for more info.
posted by Pollomacho at 11:40 AM on July 5, 2005
If you are an F-1 or J-1, note that there's also the F-2 or J-2 options which are for your dependents/family members. I'm not sure if the US would recognize a common-law partner as a dependent or if you could call yourselves a common law couple, but it might be worth checking out.
posted by duck at 11:51 AM on July 5, 2005
posted by duck at 11:51 AM on July 5, 2005
If you are an F-1 or J-1, note that there's also the F-2 or J-2 options which are for your dependents/family members.
A girlfriend/common law wife does not qualify for J-2, M-2 or F-2 status. F-2 and M-2's cannot work at all. J-2's have to get work authorization before they can work.
posted by Pollomacho at 12:06 PM on July 5, 2005
A girlfriend/common law wife does not qualify for J-2, M-2 or F-2 status. F-2 and M-2's cannot work at all. J-2's have to get work authorization before they can work.
posted by Pollomacho at 12:06 PM on July 5, 2005
Pollomacho -- the list in my first link is separate from the link to Department of Labor job definitions that I provided later on. The State Department list just enumerates eligible job titles and required credentials. However, the TN application also needs to be accompanied by a job description drafted by one's employer, and it's this supporting document that can trip up an applicant, particularly if it deviates in a meaningful way from the Department Of Labor definition (ie. Computer Systems Analyst /= Computer Programmer) and yes, you're right, I meant to say Computer Systems Analyst instead of IT Analyst.
Whenever I've gone up to apply for a TN as a CSA, I always get these probing questions, like, "how much programming are you going to be doing?" "you're working for a software company? will this be a development related job?", etc. and I can't help but believe that the question is asked simply as grounds to turn me down.
In all fairness, though, most of the times that I've run into trouble with paperwork, the agents are (usually) charitable enough to let me try again a day or so later with modified paperwork. More recently, they've even let me call my employer from the crossing point, dictate changes to the documentation, have corrected versions faxed to the border and allowed me to proceed without issue. So getting pushback from an agent is not always the end of the world.
The only cases where I've run into jackassery have been airport crossings, where the agents just seem to be far more stressed out and less forgiving in their declinements. Even in that case, though, I was able to get through at a road crossing a couple of days later (after eating the cost of the plane ticket and opting to take a bus across the border then flying domestically) ... which leads to the other piece of advice that I'd give: if you have to get your visa at a border crossing, opt for road over air, and light traffic over heavy.
posted by bl1nk at 12:18 PM on July 5, 2005
Whenever I've gone up to apply for a TN as a CSA, I always get these probing questions, like, "how much programming are you going to be doing?" "you're working for a software company? will this be a development related job?", etc. and I can't help but believe that the question is asked simply as grounds to turn me down.
In all fairness, though, most of the times that I've run into trouble with paperwork, the agents are (usually) charitable enough to let me try again a day or so later with modified paperwork. More recently, they've even let me call my employer from the crossing point, dictate changes to the documentation, have corrected versions faxed to the border and allowed me to proceed without issue. So getting pushback from an agent is not always the end of the world.
The only cases where I've run into jackassery have been airport crossings, where the agents just seem to be far more stressed out and less forgiving in their declinements. Even in that case, though, I was able to get through at a road crossing a couple of days later (after eating the cost of the plane ticket and opting to take a bus across the border then flying domestically) ... which leads to the other piece of advice that I'd give: if you have to get your visa at a border crossing, opt for road over air, and light traffic over heavy.
posted by bl1nk at 12:18 PM on July 5, 2005
Another piece of advice directly from CBP higher ups, cross during business hours on weekdays. This goes for all crossings, land, sea and air, all visa types. There is a full staff, including management and supervisors available should any "issues" arise during your crossing.
Again, one can always apply at a consulate instead of the border, then present their visa and not face the 20 questions with the car packed full of stuff and kids and the first month's rent already paid.
posted by Pollomacho at 1:09 PM on July 5, 2005
Again, one can always apply at a consulate instead of the border, then present their visa and not face the 20 questions with the car packed full of stuff and kids and the first month's rent already paid.
posted by Pollomacho at 1:09 PM on July 5, 2005
That may or may not be, however, your brother-in-law's story, if complete, is grounds for appeal.
Pretty much. But they told him that he'd have to appeal in Seattle, the nearest office from his point of entry (the Peace Arch crossing), and he didn't have the resources to do that after the expense of the trip to Swift Current and the additional expenses incurred during the resulting brouhaha. Plus, the family was p;lanning on leaving the country within 60 days anyway -- the 'get out' order just cut that to 10 days.
Sure, you can appeal when an officer ejects you from the country on a whim. But that's not always an option.
posted by solid-one-love at 1:44 PM on July 5, 2005
Pretty much. But they told him that he'd have to appeal in Seattle, the nearest office from his point of entry (the Peace Arch crossing), and he didn't have the resources to do that after the expense of the trip to Swift Current and the additional expenses incurred during the resulting brouhaha. Plus, the family was p;lanning on leaving the country within 60 days anyway -- the 'get out' order just cut that to 10 days.
Sure, you can appeal when an officer ejects you from the country on a whim. But that's not always an option.
posted by solid-one-love at 1:44 PM on July 5, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by realcountrymusic at 8:35 AM on July 5, 2005