Security vs. insecurity
May 24, 2005 11:14 AM Subscribe
I recently purchased my first home. It's in a neighborhood that used to be a little sketchy (Seattle's Rainier Beach), but is now relatively safe. Here's the thing: some of my neighbors still have bars on their windows. Others have security systems. Should I? Do they really help? Or is it just dwindling hysteria?
I purchased a two story, two bedroom, garden flat in London's East End, Stepney, in 2001. It was a fixer upper and during several long evenings working on the place noticed lots of drug dealing going on outside in the green area just outside my back windows.
I got bars on all the ground floor windows and doors. The drug problem has mitigated sharply after several abandoned council buildings on the nearby Tarling Estate were torn down, but the bars are still up.
I've got a great (and possibly misplaced) sense of security when I'm home and locked in. Even with the windows open, nobody's getting in. I can open the flat door and nobodys getting in. Stray cats wander in from time to time but since I feed them that that's ok. I also got a discount on my contents insurance.
Criminals are lazy and look for something easy and hassle free: if someone bent on mayhem is scouting out two flats, unfortunately the old lady next door is going to get the visit.
posted by Mutant at 11:50 AM on May 24, 2005
I got bars on all the ground floor windows and doors. The drug problem has mitigated sharply after several abandoned council buildings on the nearby Tarling Estate were torn down, but the bars are still up.
I've got a great (and possibly misplaced) sense of security when I'm home and locked in. Even with the windows open, nobody's getting in. I can open the flat door and nobodys getting in. Stray cats wander in from time to time but since I feed them that that's ok. I also got a discount on my contents insurance.
Criminals are lazy and look for something easy and hassle free: if someone bent on mayhem is scouting out two flats, unfortunately the old lady next door is going to get the visit.
posted by Mutant at 11:50 AM on May 24, 2005
We were the only people in our apartment building (didn't even notice this) without bars on the back window. Guess who got robbed?
We have bars now and some security stickers, and no fuss since, but of course, now they have what they want.
Security systems don't hurt, that's for sure, but if it's too expensive, buy some cheap bars from the hardware store, or one of those cheap door alarms. Put up security stickers, place sticks above window jams so the window can't be forced upwards against the lock.
Etc.
posted by agregoli at 11:50 AM on May 24, 2005
We have bars now and some security stickers, and no fuss since, but of course, now they have what they want.
Security systems don't hurt, that's for sure, but if it's too expensive, buy some cheap bars from the hardware store, or one of those cheap door alarms. Put up security stickers, place sticks above window jams so the window can't be forced upwards against the lock.
Etc.
posted by agregoli at 11:50 AM on May 24, 2005
never had bars before moving to chile, and find them disturbing still, but we have them on both our places. they can all be unlocked from inside (i'd rather be robbed than burnt alive, trapped behind bars...).
posted by andrew cooke at 11:55 AM on May 24, 2005
posted by andrew cooke at 11:55 AM on May 24, 2005
First thing I'd do is talk to your neighbors.
We live in a gentrifying neighborhood that is very "block to block" and we've seen a recent rise in crime (owing, the police tell us to three people getting out of jail on parole and moving back into to our immediate neighborhood). So lesson one for us is that the sketchiness can ebb and flow.
We've never had theft problems but our neighbors, two sets of them, directly across the street have had repeated problems. The consensus is that our side of the street is raised and more sketchy to invade v. the other side of the street. So again, talk to your neighbors and find out what the history has been on your block 'cause this could be dramatically different than aggregate crime stats.
We have an alarm, which mostly goes unset when we're in town, but we were sold on it for the fire protection, for out of town trips, and Dia (my honey) takes comfort in setting it when she's alone.
posted by donovan at 12:01 PM on May 24, 2005
We live in a gentrifying neighborhood that is very "block to block" and we've seen a recent rise in crime (owing, the police tell us to three people getting out of jail on parole and moving back into to our immediate neighborhood). So lesson one for us is that the sketchiness can ebb and flow.
We've never had theft problems but our neighbors, two sets of them, directly across the street have had repeated problems. The consensus is that our side of the street is raised and more sketchy to invade v. the other side of the street. So again, talk to your neighbors and find out what the history has been on your block 'cause this could be dramatically different than aggregate crime stats.
We have an alarm, which mostly goes unset when we're in town, but we were sold on it for the fire protection, for out of town trips, and Dia (my honey) takes comfort in setting it when she's alone.
posted by donovan at 12:01 PM on May 24, 2005
We had bars installed when we moved in to a neighborhood that's similar to the one you describe. We got no insurance break--apparently, the theft-deterrent effect is balanced by the increased risk of fire injury, or something. The bars do give me a strong sense of securitywhen I'm home, especially while I'm asleep--I know I can pretty much ignore the little house sounds. 4 windows and 2 doors, custom made, cost us about $1000.
An alarm system would lower our insurance rates, but we haven't gotten around to it.
posted by MrMoonPie at 12:10 PM on May 24, 2005
An alarm system would lower our insurance rates, but we haven't gotten around to it.
posted by MrMoonPie at 12:10 PM on May 24, 2005
i had bars installed in my new place -- and you know where i live, ariel ;) -- after a lot of deliberation. i finally figured , goddamit, i'd just be *so pissed* if i got robbed because i decided to cheap out.
what i really wanted to get, and what i would have gotten if i owned the place, is interior roll-down gates. not the solid metal kind, the cool chain-link looking kind. they're awesome, and they actually look great inside.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 12:51 PM on May 24, 2005
what i really wanted to get, and what i would have gotten if i owned the place, is interior roll-down gates. not the solid metal kind, the cool chain-link looking kind. they're awesome, and they actually look great inside.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 12:51 PM on May 24, 2005
I would highly suggest an alarm system with well placed signage. We have a story much like Sully6 - the back door was kicked in, the alarm went off, the burglar fled. If we had left the sign and stickers, he probably wouldn't have bothered.
Since your neighbors have bars on their windows, put yourself in a thief's shoes. Do you want to break into a house with bars on the windows, or into the neighbor with no bars. At least with an alarm system it won't look ugly and they won't get anything.
If you have cable, I'd also recommend It Takes a Thief on the Discovery Channel. This show will show you just how easy it is to get into a house. Then get your checkbook ready :)
posted by Moondoggie at 12:58 PM on May 24, 2005
Since your neighbors have bars on their windows, put yourself in a thief's shoes. Do you want to break into a house with bars on the windows, or into the neighbor with no bars. At least with an alarm system it won't look ugly and they won't get anything.
If you have cable, I'd also recommend It Takes a Thief on the Discovery Channel. This show will show you just how easy it is to get into a house. Then get your checkbook ready :)
posted by Moondoggie at 12:58 PM on May 24, 2005
Perhaps get decorative ironwork that fills the same purpose as bars in the mind of a burgler scoping the place, but doesn't look as security-conscious to the friend touring your home, or a potential buyer later on.
Also, while security systems can be very expensive, they strike me as the sort of thing that a bit of DIY can make huge cost reductions in. I'd be interested to know if much cat-burglery goes on (ie people who attempt to foil alarm systems rather than avoid them), but I suspect not, ie a cheap system would be almost as good so long as you can't just yank the horn off the wall. I guess you'd want to put the money into getting the system unobtrusive to your life while remaining useful (encrypted radio fobs instead of keypads entry, etc)
posted by -harlequin- at 1:09 PM on May 24, 2005
Also, while security systems can be very expensive, they strike me as the sort of thing that a bit of DIY can make huge cost reductions in. I'd be interested to know if much cat-burglery goes on (ie people who attempt to foil alarm systems rather than avoid them), but I suspect not, ie a cheap system would be almost as good so long as you can't just yank the horn off the wall. I guess you'd want to put the money into getting the system unobtrusive to your life while remaining useful (encrypted radio fobs instead of keypads entry, etc)
posted by -harlequin- at 1:09 PM on May 24, 2005
Response by poster: Thanks for all the feedback, folks. I should clarify: it's perhaps only 15% of our neighbors that have security systems displayed, and maybe only 5% that have bars.
posted by arielmeadow at 1:23 PM on May 24, 2005
posted by arielmeadow at 1:23 PM on May 24, 2005
Get a security system but don't sign up for monthly monitoring. If someone breaks in, the siren will scare them off (and alert you to their presence if you're home).
Security systems don't hurt, that's for sure, but if it's too expensive, buy some cheap bars from the hardware store, or one of those cheap door alarms.
It really depends on the individual and your situation, but those two comments are for many people dangerous advice.
I recently had my mother install an alarm system. She lives alone. 24 bucks a month isn't too expensive, and i wouldn't be able to sleep at night if she didn't have it monitored.
This isn't just for robbery, it's for home invasion etc. If you think it's too expensive to have it monitored, or you just throw up some "cheap bars", great. Just don't make the assumption that it's the same, because it's not.
The chances of someone breaking in to my mother's house and waiting for her to come home are drastically reduced, more so than if she had cut corners. That's more important than money that basically equals a night at the movies.
posted by justgary at 1:27 PM on May 24, 2005
Security systems don't hurt, that's for sure, but if it's too expensive, buy some cheap bars from the hardware store, or one of those cheap door alarms.
It really depends on the individual and your situation, but those two comments are for many people dangerous advice.
I recently had my mother install an alarm system. She lives alone. 24 bucks a month isn't too expensive, and i wouldn't be able to sleep at night if she didn't have it monitored.
This isn't just for robbery, it's for home invasion etc. If you think it's too expensive to have it monitored, or you just throw up some "cheap bars", great. Just don't make the assumption that it's the same, because it's not.
The chances of someone breaking in to my mother's house and waiting for her to come home are drastically reduced, more so than if she had cut corners. That's more important than money that basically equals a night at the movies.
posted by justgary at 1:27 PM on May 24, 2005
Depends on how safe it is now. What's the behavior of your neighbors -- especially the ones that have been around awhile? There are still some bars on windows in my neighborhood, but everyone also sits on their front stoops with their doors open. The bars are still there because folks are too lazy to take them off or are just used to them. When I buy a house in the neighborhood next year, I won't bother with bars or alarms. (Only the people who built swanky brand-new homes in our rather old-fashioned neighborhood bother with alarm systems.)
posted by desuetude at 1:32 PM on May 24, 2005
posted by desuetude at 1:32 PM on May 24, 2005
Aside from being horrendously unattractive, I'm curious as to what kind of psychological ramifications result from a neighborhood full of barred windows and doors. One would think that this is likely to have a very negative impact on the young kids growing up in these areas. I'm not judging anyone here, but I worry about what happens when we create environments in which kids (might) perceive that they are being treated liked potential criminals.
posted by crapulent at 2:35 PM on May 24, 2005
posted by crapulent at 2:35 PM on May 24, 2005
When I moved to Columbia City (not too far from you and a similarly gentrifying neighborhood). The first thing I did was remove the bars on the windows. Never had any problems but also kept a night light on outside.
posted by Bear at 2:57 PM on May 24, 2005
posted by Bear at 2:57 PM on May 24, 2005
I'm curious as to what kind of psychological ramifications result from a neighborhood full of barred windows and doors. One would think that this is likely to have a very negative impact on the young kids growing up in these areas.
I grew up in a very rough neighborhood. We had bars on all the first story windows, though they looked 'decorative' their purpose was quite clear.
It never made me feel like I was being treated as a 'potential criminal'. I could always get in and out of the house. But after our house was burglarized one weekend while we were away they did make me feel a little safer.
A great situation to grow up in? Probably not. But much better than some alternatives. With kids today being seized through intruders cutting window screens, I don't think it's a bad trade off, especially in some neighborhoods.
(I'm sure some windows today are more secure...we were in an old house with easily broken windows and bars were far cheaper than replacing them)
posted by justgary at 4:13 PM on May 24, 2005
I grew up in a very rough neighborhood. We had bars on all the first story windows, though they looked 'decorative' their purpose was quite clear.
It never made me feel like I was being treated as a 'potential criminal'. I could always get in and out of the house. But after our house was burglarized one weekend while we were away they did make me feel a little safer.
A great situation to grow up in? Probably not. But much better than some alternatives. With kids today being seized through intruders cutting window screens, I don't think it's a bad trade off, especially in some neighborhoods.
(I'm sure some windows today are more secure...we were in an old house with easily broken windows and bars were far cheaper than replacing them)
posted by justgary at 4:13 PM on May 24, 2005
I live in Rainier Beach-well, up the hill towards Skyway, but still. We pay Brinks ~25/month but the thing that kills me about that is a thief can just yank the phone cord at the box and the police will never know our alarm is ringing. Anyway, we've had many cars stolen but my wife has been here 20 years and never had a break in.
posted by carterk at 9:42 PM on May 24, 2005
posted by carterk at 9:42 PM on May 24, 2005
We pay Brinks ~25/month but the thing that kills me about that is a thief can just yank the phone cord at the box and the police will never know our alarm is ringing.
That's actually not true. My mother also has brinks.
If the phone line is tampered with at all brinks is immediately notified. In other words, screwing with the phone lines also sets the alarm off.
If getting by the alarm was as simple as cutting a phone line brinks (pr any other security company) wouldn't be in business.
posted by justgary at 1:30 AM on May 25, 2005
That's actually not true. My mother also has brinks.
If the phone line is tampered with at all brinks is immediately notified. In other words, screwing with the phone lines also sets the alarm off.
If getting by the alarm was as simple as cutting a phone line brinks (pr any other security company) wouldn't be in business.
posted by justgary at 1:30 AM on May 25, 2005
Um, no. Your mom may have a different level of service than we do. Here's what I know- our service uses standard phone lines to notify police and fire. I have personally disconnected the phone outside at the box for long periods while re-wiring my phone lines. I notified no-one; neither Brinks, police or fire services called or otherwise responded. A Brinks rep., in fact, has acknowledged that severing the phone line keeps authorities from being notified.
posted by carterk at 7:30 AM on May 25, 2005
posted by carterk at 7:30 AM on May 25, 2005
I used to live in a less than spectacular corner of Atlanta and my first floor apartment had bars on the windows. I was extremely grateful because none of the windows actually locked and there was a (batshit crazy) guy living in our dumpster that I would have preferred not crawl through my window to take a nap while I was at work.
I used to work for a security system company when I was in college (as a telemarketer, I forget which company though) and apparently some of the alarm systems are pretty worthless. If you do decide to get an alarm system, check Consumer Reports or another objective review or just ask your neighbors what they have to make sure you're getting a good one.
posted by jennyb at 7:52 AM on May 25, 2005
I used to work for a security system company when I was in college (as a telemarketer, I forget which company though) and apparently some of the alarm systems are pretty worthless. If you do decide to get an alarm system, check Consumer Reports or another objective review or just ask your neighbors what they have to make sure you're getting a good one.
posted by jennyb at 7:52 AM on May 25, 2005
Um, no. Your mom may have a different level of service than we do. Here's what I know- our service uses standard phone lines to notify police and fire.
She has the basic service. When it was installed an obvious problem to me was a cut phone line, so I made sure there was a way to deal with it.
I'm not sure if your system is older and maybe that's the problem, but if a quick snip of your phone lines stops monitoring, you're being ripped off. Seriously, I'm not sure what the benefit of paying for your service is.
posted by justgary at 8:46 AM on May 25, 2005
She has the basic service. When it was installed an obvious problem to me was a cut phone line, so I made sure there was a way to deal with it.
I'm not sure if your system is older and maybe that's the problem, but if a quick snip of your phone lines stops monitoring, you're being ripped off. Seriously, I'm not sure what the benefit of paying for your service is.
posted by justgary at 8:46 AM on May 25, 2005
BRINKS ALARMS
Brink's is one of the cheapest alarm systems, and when you move they'll install one free in your new home. This is good news for anyone who is stalked, as they know at some point, they probably will have to move again).
Be SURE to opt for the 'phone line cut' service. IT IS ONE OF THE MOST LIFE-SAVING FEATURES YOU CAN HAVE, and is not that expensive. I don't know if my stalker was completely surprised or actually trying to set off the alarm when he cut my phone lines, but -- it worked, that's all I care about. It sent a signal to the police even though my phone did not work.
http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs14b-stalking.htm
So maybe it's an option, and now part of the package.
posted by justgary at 8:54 AM on May 25, 2005
Brink's is one of the cheapest alarm systems, and when you move they'll install one free in your new home. This is good news for anyone who is stalked, as they know at some point, they probably will have to move again).
Be SURE to opt for the 'phone line cut' service. IT IS ONE OF THE MOST LIFE-SAVING FEATURES YOU CAN HAVE, and is not that expensive. I don't know if my stalker was completely surprised or actually trying to set off the alarm when he cut my phone lines, but -- it worked, that's all I care about. It sent a signal to the police even though my phone did not work.
http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs14b-stalking.htm
So maybe it's an option, and now part of the package.
posted by justgary at 8:54 AM on May 25, 2005
Seattle crime statistics by area.
If you do put bars on your windows, make sure that you know how to open them from the inside (they will open, yes?) in case of a fire.
Another good safety option is motion-detection lights. Not much more expensive than regular outdoor lights (the fixture is different, not the bulb, which is a regular one), unless you need additional wiring (if you want lights were none are, at the moment). Works only at night (and on dark, late Seattle evenings in winter), of course.
posted by WestCoaster at 9:31 PM on May 25, 2005
If you do put bars on your windows, make sure that you know how to open them from the inside (they will open, yes?) in case of a fire.
Another good safety option is motion-detection lights. Not much more expensive than regular outdoor lights (the fixture is different, not the bulb, which is a regular one), unless you need additional wiring (if you want lights were none are, at the moment). Works only at night (and on dark, late Seattle evenings in winter), of course.
posted by WestCoaster at 9:31 PM on May 25, 2005
If your going to put up motion sensor lights please make sure they don't cause glare. My elderly neighbour has installed some of those motion lights with what seems to be an attempt at stadium lighting and they actually create a hazard in my yard.
posted by Mitheral at 6:15 AM on May 26, 2005
posted by Mitheral at 6:15 AM on May 26, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
Here's my experience. I bought a house last year in a gentrifying Chicago neighborhood where there were enough burglaries and gangbanging to convince me of the need for a security system. I paid about $2K, including a year of monitoring. The guy who installed the system plastered the security stickers all over the house. I actually thought it looked a little paranoid but I never got around to removing them.
A few months later, in the early afternoon while I'm at work, someone jimmies open a window, crawls into the house and then promptly runs out the door when the alarm system went off. (So much for the stickers.) Nothing was taken and the cops were there within minutes.
Over the next few weeks, several of my neighbors get robbed in the early afternoon. A few of them got cleaned out. So I think my system has paid for itself.
Some low-cost alternatives you may want consider: Photoshop your own security system sign using a logo from ADT/Brinks/etc. Place on a spike in your front yard. (Contrary to my experience, the signs usually are the detterent.)
Get a security system but don't sign up for monthly monitoring. If someone breaks in, the siren will scare them off (and alert you to their presence if you're home). A cop told me that even with a security system, they're almost never able to make it to scene in time to catch someone.
posted by Sully6 at 11:36 AM on May 24, 2005