Passive/Agressive

May 24, 2005 11:20 AM

Please tell me your experiences with passive agressiveness in your relationships.

I believe I may be involved in one.. I want to know what your experiences were and how you (or your partner) personally dealt with them.

Thank you.

posted by eas98 to human relations (20 comments total)

Oh, Fine, You're Right. I'm Passive-Aggressive. (link to Free Republic cache of original NYT article)
posted by MLIS at 11:47 AM on May 24, 2005

My first serious relationship was a textbook example of a passive-aggressive relationship. It took me a while to realize what was going on, but when I did, I broke up with the guy, and got myself to a therapist very quickly. (The relationship was bad in many ways, and so might have been saved if that was all that was going on.) I recommend therapy, jointly, or individually.
posted by Specklet at 11:55 AM on May 24, 2005

Everyone has an idea of "passive-agressive" means, but it's seems few people have the same idea of what it means.

Maybe that's why you're asking the question, but if not, bear in mind that different people may be thinking of very different things. As a word, "passive-agressive" is bandied about in so many ways that it may be more clouding than revealing when trying to take a serious look at something.
posted by -harlequin- at 12:07 PM on May 24, 2005

My experience has been that 'passive-aggressive' is a term used by people who scream and throw crockery to make themselves feel that they're "healthier" than those who don't.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 12:14 PM on May 24, 2005

harlequin has a good point: many people have different definitions for the term, and it has become a catch-all to describe people with various annoying quirks.

IshmaelGraves, I find your comment not only unhelpful and callous, but insulting as well. You obviously have no idea of what "passive-aggressive" means, and make it clear you could care less about the asker's dilemma. I cannot stress enough how difficult a relationship with a passive-aggressive person can be, and want to reassure you that I've had more than one psychologist use the term "passive-aggressive" when referring to my past partner.

Anyway, researching some definitions would be a good idea, eas98, but again I'll suggest therapy in some form. Whatever it is you're concerned about (whether is is "passive-aggressiveness" or not) should be addressed. But you probably already knew that...
posted by Specklet at 1:05 PM on May 24, 2005

Specklet: IshmaelGraves is not the only one with that opinion of what passive-aggressive means; just because someone tends to avoid confrontation doesn't mean they have a personality disorder. I wholeheartedly agree with your last two sentences, though.
posted by Johnny Assay at 1:35 PM on May 24, 2005

My name is Grumblebee and I'm passive-aggressive.

Well, I try not to be (and I think I generally succeed), but it's a constant battle. I'm posting a little about myself here in the hopes that it will help you understand what makes someone like me tick -- and maybe that will be step one in solving the problem:

I grew up with an incredibly explosive father. He would continually lose his temper and scream at me. My brother and I learned to deal with this in two entirely different ways. He would fight back, which would make my father get even madder, and the two of them would have a gigantic battle.

These scenes scared me. I've always hated fighting -- to an absurd degree. I tend to feel that when someone is yelling at me, it means they hate me or want to leave me. As an adult, I know this is a gross oversimplification at best, but I still FEEL that way. As a kid, I longed for some trick that I could use to make my father stop yelling.

When I was about ten, I figured it out. I would just agree with anything my father said. If he said (or screamed), "YOU'RE SO LAZY!" I would just say, "You're right, I am. I'm sorry." And bingo! It worked. He would stop yelling. Meanwhile, my brother would go on taking the opposite approach ("HOW DARE YOU CALL ME LAZY!") and the epic battles went on.

At first, I felt a little ashamed of "giving in" so easily (I would agree with my father even when I knew he was wrong and I was right, because I would rather be at peace than be right). But after a while I started to feel superior. I was "better" than all those people who would lose their temper; I was better than all those people who HAD to be right all the time.

And I found that the same tactic that worked with my dad worked with other people -- bullies at school, etc. I just refused to let anyone get a rise out of me -- I just agreed with them. And it worked. They stopped yelling and bullying.

But...

Of course I DID still want to be right. I DID still want to win. No matter how hard I tried to suppress these urges, I couldn't suppress them. But by this time I was bent on NEVER fighting back. Which left passive-aggressive tactics as my only option.

After many relationships, I have learned this about myself, and I'm pretty good at controlling this nasty aspect of my personality. But I still hate fights. I tend to turn inward now. I'm that guy who people accuse of not caring because I walk away from arguments. I'm working on it.

In any case, I DO care. I'm just terrified of fighting. As silly as it sounds, when people fight with me, it seems like the world is going to end. So I retreat and it SEEMS like I don't care.

I hope this gives you a window into the issue.
posted by grumblebee at 2:45 PM on May 24, 2005 [1 favorite]

Hmm, I believe that throwing crockery and screaming is 'active-aggressive', or is there's something passive in that situation that I am missing?.

My understanding of what passive-aggressive is tends along the lines of people that use self-victimisation as a way to make someone else feel bad, usually somebody close to them. It is a covert attack, because it is implied that the self-victimisation and the supposed lack of self-esteem stems from something the other person said or did and that other person, being an intimate, naturally feels bad for making them feel bad.

It happens very often in relationships. I prefer screaming and thrown crockery.

On preview: it's the way non-confrontational people confront other people in an aggressive way.
posted by sic at 2:50 PM on May 24, 2005 [1 favorite]

in voice of your s/o: "Why are you always asking about this? You think we have a problem, don't you?"

Seriously? It's bad news. Aggressive-aggresive is much easier to deal with, even if it results in more broken furniture.
posted by thedevildancedlightly at 3:15 PM on May 24, 2005

. . .just because someone tends to avoid confrontation doesn't mean they have a personality disorder [bold added].

The Straight Dope entry you linked to explains DSM-IV (1994) "[d]umped PAPD from the list of official disorders and relegated it to an appendix."
posted by MLIS at 3:34 PM on May 24, 2005

When you join AA, or are a loved one of someone in AA, you get all these materials about the asking personality type stuff.

There's:
Passive -- I give of myself, I am submissive, I think others deserve more than me
Aggressive -- I demand, I take, I bully people, I think I deserve more than anyone else
Assertive -- I ask for what I want but I'm open for compromise, I say what's genuinely on my mind, I understand that other people have needs as well and I work to balance that
Passive-Aggressive -- I give of myself, but I resent that I'm giving. I think I deserve more than I get. I don't state what I need. I expect people to read my mind and just give me what I need/want

I'm sure you can get lots of information from your local AA even if chemicals aren't involved.

I don't think it's a clear "I am this" type scenario. Everyone is a mix and you become something eventually based on your tendencies and your parner's.

I was the passive-aggressive one in my previous marriage. He was very... dominant and was unable to reach compromise or see another's point of view. (AA claims that when you're drunk, assertive automatically goes to aggressive.) I needed to avoid the conflict, so I started giving in to his demands, but reluctantly. We'd do what he wanted, but if anything went wrong with it, I would actively remind him it was his idea. I relished the "I told you so" moments. I started just creating a world around his wants and needs and hating him for every moment. It escalated until the only way I knew how to work with him was passive-aggressive (it's bled into other parts of my life and I'm desperately trying to repair and turn back into something between assertive and passive.)

He was happy -- after all, he couldn't see I was miserable. I would just occasionally become a bitch and he couldn't understand why. And then I would apologize and go back to my submissive, but resentful, ways. When I finally decided to leave, he said he had no idea anything was wrong. I was really really angry. How could I be so miserable and he not even notice? But that's passive-aggresive for you. I didn't directly say it and he was too aggressive to hear anything but what he wanted to hear. And resentment, I believe that kills love.

You know what passive-aggressive is? It's the roast beef sandwich scene in DINER.

(paraphrased since it's not on IMDB and it's been a year since I've seen it)

> Are you gonna eat that roast beef sandwich?
Do you want the roast beef sandwich?
> I was just wondering if you were going to eat the roast beef sandwich.
If you want the roast beef sandwich, just ask for it. Just say 'Can I have the roast beef sandwich?'
> I just wanted-
Just take it.
[time passes]
> Are you going to pass my place on the way home?
You know I'm not going to pass your place. If you want a ride home just ask for a ride home.
posted by Gucky at 3:37 PM on May 24, 2005 [1 favorite]

Yea - what exactly do you mean by passive- aggressive? I had a gf who called pretty much everyone passive-aggressive and I never really knew what she meant.

Anyway, I guess to me it means someone who bottles up their negative emotions until they reach a point where they explode: nice then nasty. My mom did this through my childhood. I guess noone taught her that the bad feelings are as much of you as the good ones, and you have to deal with them both.

I'm a great of advocate of shrinks as a tool to use in relationships, so I'd sent your partner to one - or maybe see one together?
posted by forallmankind at 3:41 PM on May 24, 2005

IshmaelGraves, I find your comment not only unhelpful and callous, but insulting as well.

Please refer to the question that is being asked, not the question you are posing in your head. The question was, for those with short attention spans:

Please tell me your experiences with passive agressiveness [sic] in your relationships.

I did precisely that. I did not, you will note, attempt to define "passive-aggressive behavior" as a societal phenomenon. I neither stated nor implied that my experiences with accusations of passive-aggressive behavior were representative. I disclosed those experiences, naked and unadorned, as per the question being posed. I meant nothing further by it. Nor was my response accompanied by any guaranty of "helpfulness." Whatever callous and insulting meaning you read into it is entirely your own.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 9:39 PM on May 24, 2005

Well put IshmaelGraves.

Specklet: from my experiences most people posting here are simply trying to help - is it really necessary to shoot them down in flames, particularly when their comments are open to interpretation?
posted by forallmankind at 10:19 PM on May 24, 2005

Anyway, I guess to me it means someone who bottles up their negative emotions until they reach a point where they explode

I've never understood it to mean alternating between passive behavior and agressive behavior, but rather being both at the same time.

For example: Bob and Harry are roommates, and the sound of Bob's alarm clock bothers Harry. Rather than confront Bob about the problem, Harry disables the alarm while Bob is out of the room. That seems like the definition of passive agressive behavior to me.
posted by ludwig_van at 11:56 PM on May 24, 2005

Fascinating. By one description I read in the link from MLIS, I am a prime candidate for being passive-aggresive. But careful consideration reveals I am certainly not. I use it sometimes, but it feels ugly.

However, I now understand my 2nd partner certainly was! And oh, it provokes me to rage! That relationship was not very good for us. Funny enough, we're good friends, and like eachother lots better that way.

My ex hated confrontation. He especially couldn't deal with loud confrontation. (I learned the loud part especially well from my first partner, a NYC Italian.) But when I need to hash something out, that need gets seriously strong. Any attempts at this PA crap only makes me behave like a near-total asshole, trying to provoke that passive out of his stupor. AND THEN he'd accuse ME of depending on the conflict!
posted by Goofyy at 1:32 AM on May 25, 2005

Thank you everyone for your responses.. I see that I need to do further research on this.

Thanks again.
posted by eas98 at 6:35 AM on May 25, 2005

My personal example of passive aggressive behavior, as carried out by me: I'm busy and tired and the house is dirty but rather than ask my SO for help, I just get angry and resentful that he isn't helping without my having to ask until I have a SHIT FIT and totally freak out about the "filthy shit hole" that we live in and then we have a nice big fight and both feel miserably horrible and sometimes clean but other times go off to sulk.

The problem: Insecurity on my part that asking for help will be interpreted as nagging and drive my SO away.

The solution: Recognition, honesty, and understanding and lots of positive reinforcement when I express what I want in the form of recognition and having a generally cleaner house. And the slowly dawning realization that I've been asking for help straight up for months now and I've yet to be accused of being a nag nor have I been dumped for being a harpy.

All that said just to point out that passive-aggressive behavior isn't always a death knell for a relationship if both parties are willing to work on the problem.
posted by jennyb at 8:13 AM on May 25, 2005

Here's a classic PA situation, for those who are still unclear on the concept. I gave an online acquaintance a ride to a meetup in a town three hours away. On the trip she mentioned that she had hearing problems and found it difficult to follow a conversation with music playing. She didn't actually ask me to turn the car radio down, but the hint was plain enough. This is mildly passive-aggressive but it was easy to accommodate her. I did wish she had told me in advance that the trip would be made excruciating by lack of music, but whatever, I can deal.

Later I gave her and two other folks a ride somewhere else. I had turned up the radio to where I like it while in the car with another group of people (we were going to dinner as a group and she wasn't in the car on the way over but was on the way back). She could have simply reminded me of it, but instead she chose to start a conversation in the back seat with another woman about how she'd told me about her problem with the radio and she didn't know why I had turned it back up, just as if I wasn't sitting right in front of her.

She was quite damn lucky I didn't make her get out of the car and walk back.

Which would of course have been cruel. See, it had transpired that whatever we as a group wanted to do, she always had some previously unmentioned medical problem that required us to accommodate her. There was never one situation in which we could just pick up and do something like normal people, always we had to consider her first. I have a sneaking suspicion that she was making up at least half of the six maladies she claimed to suffer from, as she simply didn't look like she was in that poor health. But of course you can't say "oh no, I really doubt you have asthma on top of everything else," because after all, you can't tell by looking -- none of the things she claimed to suffer from were things you could actually see. But she apparently had a trick knee (precluding any kind of strenuous walking or stair-climbing), was allergic to several different kinds of foods (which dictated our dinner plans), a bad back (so she had to have her pick of sleeping location), the aforementioned asthma (which required the pets be locked in a bedroom), etc. Even if she did have legitimate medical problems, the way she often brought it up was definitely passive-aggressive: she'd wait until the plans were almost firm and then mention that she'd just stay behind because she couldn't do what we'd planned. After all, she didn't want us to change her plans just for her, but of course we felt so bad about it we always did what she wanted.

And that, friends, is what passive-aggressiveness is all about. Using others' guilt or embarrassment to manipulate others into doing what you want them to do. Did she do it intentionally? Possibly not. Was it annoying as hell anyway? Yes, of course. I have not seen this person since and never want to again.
posted by kindall at 9:15 AM on May 25, 2005 [2 favorites]

Whatever callous and insulting meaning you read into it is entirely your own.

Point taken. Apologies, IshmaelGraves.
posted by Specklet at 9:51 AM on May 25, 2005