Is running a lamp cable under a pile of sleeping bags dangerous?
August 23, 2008 2:19 PM Subscribe
Greetings, Hive Mind. I need to know if I'm going to start a house fire.
I have a lamp whose power cable currently goes underneath a pile of sleeping bags before hitting the wall outlet. Is this dangerous y/n?
I checked a couple other lamp cables in the house and all of them seem pretty cool to the touch, so I figure I'm probably not creating a fire hazard. (By comparison to, say, laptop cables, which get super warm).
Weigh in. Time to buy fire insurance y/n?
I have a lamp whose power cable currently goes underneath a pile of sleeping bags before hitting the wall outlet. Is this dangerous y/n?
I checked a couple other lamp cables in the house and all of them seem pretty cool to the touch, so I figure I'm probably not creating a fire hazard. (By comparison to, say, laptop cables, which get super warm).
Weigh in. Time to buy fire insurance y/n?
Um, is moving the sleeping bags not an option?
Is the cord frayed? If not, I wouldn't worry about it. If so, I'd unplug it and wrap some electrical tape around the frayed portion and then not worry about it.
Of course, I used to play with aerosol cans and a lighter when I was a kid, so what do I know.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 2:27 PM on August 23, 2008
Is the cord frayed? If not, I wouldn't worry about it. If so, I'd unplug it and wrap some electrical tape around the frayed portion and then not worry about it.
Of course, I used to play with aerosol cans and a lighter when I was a kid, so what do I know.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 2:27 PM on August 23, 2008
I don't see any problem here as long as you inspect the cord and make sure it's well maintained and free of abrasions and kinks. It should remain cool with a normal electrical load.
posted by crapmatic at 2:29 PM on August 23, 2008
posted by crapmatic at 2:29 PM on August 23, 2008
The problem with cables under something is not that they get hot per se [though the little bricks you get on laptops sometimes do] but that they will fray, you will not see the fraying and they will spark and start a house fire by setting whatever is on top of them on fire, possibly in a smoldering way that you will not notice.
Generally speaking, it's not a super bright thing to do but if no one is walking on them, the risk is lower than it would otherwise be. If it goes along the floor, you might want to get one of those rubber runner things that go on top of them (name?) so that they would be less likely to get damaged. I don't quite get why you have a stationary "pile of sleeping bags" someplace you need to run an electrical cord. Is this a rearrangeable setup?
Fire insurance, as I'm pretty sure you know, is no replacement for not burning your house down to begin with. On a scale of one to ten where one is "totally safe!" and ten is "is on fire right now" my estimation is that this is a six or so.
posted by jessamyn at 2:30 PM on August 23, 2008
Generally speaking, it's not a super bright thing to do but if no one is walking on them, the risk is lower than it would otherwise be. If it goes along the floor, you might want to get one of those rubber runner things that go on top of them (name?) so that they would be less likely to get damaged. I don't quite get why you have a stationary "pile of sleeping bags" someplace you need to run an electrical cord. Is this a rearrangeable setup?
Fire insurance, as I'm pretty sure you know, is no replacement for not burning your house down to begin with. On a scale of one to ten where one is "totally safe!" and ten is "is on fire right now" my estimation is that this is a six or so.
posted by jessamyn at 2:30 PM on August 23, 2008
If this is something that's going to be hidden under these sleeping bags for years, I'd sleep better with some sort of flexible floor conduit housing these wires. Don't know if the ones in the link are appropriate for electrical cables, but you get the idea.
Can I piggyback on this question? I have a mattress that I store propped up against the wall. On said wall, behind the mattress, there's an electric plug. There's nothing plugged on it but everytime I think of a mattress touching a wall outlet the words "fire hazard" come to my mind. Is it safe?
posted by falameufilho at 2:42 PM on August 23, 2008
Can I piggyback on this question? I have a mattress that I store propped up against the wall. On said wall, behind the mattress, there's an electric plug. There's nothing plugged on it but everytime I think of a mattress touching a wall outlet the words "fire hazard" come to my mind. Is it safe?
posted by falameufilho at 2:42 PM on August 23, 2008
Response by poster: I know it seems like an odd setup.
But picture this: The corner of the room has two pieces of furniture, neither of which actually touches the wall. This creates a little corner that's completely out of sight. Since we have next to no storage space in our house, we've used this as a hiding space for our camping gear. It's hard to get things in and out of, but at least it's out of sight and keeps things tidy.
So anyways, the lamp cord travels underneath this corner on its way to the outlet. The outlet itself is entirely free and clear, and there's no foot traffic over any of this setup, obviously. Oh, and I inspected the cable. It is insulated and in tip-top shape. No nicks, frays, abrasion, etc.
This is the tidiest way of getting the lamp cord from the lamp to the outlet. The alternative would involve the cord being and running in *front* of some of the furniture.
Oh, and the lamp is rarely on, only on when I'm in the room, and is rarely on for more than a few hours at a time.
It seems that my chance of being burninated by this setup is low. But on a scale of 1 (struck by lightning) and 10 (heart disease) how likely would you say this setup is to kill me?
posted by optimuscrime at 2:50 PM on August 23, 2008
But picture this: The corner of the room has two pieces of furniture, neither of which actually touches the wall. This creates a little corner that's completely out of sight. Since we have next to no storage space in our house, we've used this as a hiding space for our camping gear. It's hard to get things in and out of, but at least it's out of sight and keeps things tidy.
So anyways, the lamp cord travels underneath this corner on its way to the outlet. The outlet itself is entirely free and clear, and there's no foot traffic over any of this setup, obviously. Oh, and I inspected the cable. It is insulated and in tip-top shape. No nicks, frays, abrasion, etc.
This is the tidiest way of getting the lamp cord from the lamp to the outlet. The alternative would involve the cord being and running in *front* of some of the furniture.
Oh, and the lamp is rarely on, only on when I'm in the room, and is rarely on for more than a few hours at a time.
It seems that my chance of being burninated by this setup is low. But on a scale of 1 (struck by lightning) and 10 (heart disease) how likely would you say this setup is to kill me?
posted by optimuscrime at 2:50 PM on August 23, 2008
Response by poster: @falameufilho:
"I'd sleep better with some sort of flexible floor conduit housing these wires"
That's a great idea! What does the hive mind think of these:
http://www.microcenter.com/image.phtml?id=0217903&sku=579557
I use something like this to keep cables at my desk neat. Good idea in this context?
posted by optimuscrime at 2:58 PM on August 23, 2008
"I'd sleep better with some sort of flexible floor conduit housing these wires"
That's a great idea! What does the hive mind think of these:
http://www.microcenter.com/image.phtml?id=0217903&sku=579557
I use something like this to keep cables at my desk neat. Good idea in this context?
posted by optimuscrime at 2:58 PM on August 23, 2008
Response by poster: also @falameufilho:
I think you can get little rubber things that plug into unused outlets as a safety measure. I think they're mostly meant to keep little kids from sticking things into outlets and learning valuable life lessons.... but they'd probably do the trick for your mattress situation.
posted by optimuscrime at 2:59 PM on August 23, 2008
I think you can get little rubber things that plug into unused outlets as a safety measure. I think they're mostly meant to keep little kids from sticking things into outlets and learning valuable life lessons.... but they'd probably do the trick for your mattress situation.
posted by optimuscrime at 2:59 PM on August 23, 2008
What about building something to keep the gear up off of the floor? I'm envisioning something simple like a couple bricks and one of those shelving unit type things, could probably be done for under $10. Now comes the fancy diagram:
_____________________ <> []_____<>_____ []
[] are the bricks
posted by bowmaniac at 3:32 PM on August 23, 2008
_____________________ <> []_____<>_____ []
[] are the bricks
posted by bowmaniac at 3:32 PM on August 23, 2008
well that didn't work. seems it thought my arrows were html code. I even made sure it lined up on preview. Bah. Oh well, hopefully you get the idea.
________________________
[]______________________[]
posted by bowmaniac at 3:34 PM on August 23, 2008
________________________
[]______________________[]
posted by bowmaniac at 3:34 PM on August 23, 2008
I'm going to agree with the above who say that as long as the cables are currently sound and are not subject to friction, you should be fine.
But I also think you should look in insurance anyway. Renter's insurance in the U.S. is pretty cheap, I've never paid more than $150 a year for it. And that covers fire and theft.
posted by saffry at 4:18 PM on August 23, 2008
But I also think you should look in insurance anyway. Renter's insurance in the U.S. is pretty cheap, I've never paid more than $150 a year for it. And that covers fire and theft.
posted by saffry at 4:18 PM on August 23, 2008
I like bowmaniac's idea and here's why: having your sleeping bags etc in a corner like that means they're likely to get damp and/or musty over time. Raising them up a little will get the air flowing underneath, keep your camping gear in better condition, and solve your lamp issue along the way.
posted by shelleycat at 4:20 PM on August 23, 2008
posted by shelleycat at 4:20 PM on August 23, 2008
Any reason you can't just lay the wire on top of the sleeping bags?
That would work.
posted by Dorri732 at 4:32 PM on August 23, 2008
That would work.
posted by Dorri732 at 4:32 PM on August 23, 2008
Probably not. Definitely does raise the question about storage of camping gear... Use a CFL bulb if it's not using one already? Less wattage should equal less current, which should equal less likely to burninate.
/college degree in electronics technology, and have done my share of camping
posted by hungrysquirrels at 4:38 PM on August 23, 2008
/college degree in electronics technology, and have done my share of camping
posted by hungrysquirrels at 4:38 PM on August 23, 2008
Response by poster: @bowmaniac: that is a top notch idea. i may build something like that.
@saffry: the insurance thing was more of a joke. my house is insured. i'm too paranoid to be uninsured. see: this thread.
@shelleycat: the bags are in their own little nylon sleeves, a la http://osa.studentaffairs.duke.edu/images/sleeping_bag.jpg. i hadn't thought about giving them more air. i suppose they would get musty crammed into those bags over the course of the year. hmm.
@dorri: the cord would be a little too short to go over them instead of under, and i'm hoping to avoid extension cords here. :)
@hungrysquirrels: yep CFL bulb. and yes: how people with small homes or apartments are avid campers is beyond me. where do they put their gear?!
posted by optimuscrime at 4:58 PM on August 23, 2008
@saffry: the insurance thing was more of a joke. my house is insured. i'm too paranoid to be uninsured. see: this thread.
@shelleycat: the bags are in their own little nylon sleeves, a la http://osa.studentaffairs.duke.edu/images/sleeping_bag.jpg. i hadn't thought about giving them more air. i suppose they would get musty crammed into those bags over the course of the year. hmm.
@dorri: the cord would be a little too short to go over them instead of under, and i'm hoping to avoid extension cords here. :)
@hungrysquirrels: yep CFL bulb. and yes: how people with small homes or apartments are avid campers is beyond me. where do they put their gear?!
posted by optimuscrime at 4:58 PM on August 23, 2008
I have no visions of fires at your house based on this data, optimuscrime. Take that for what it's worth.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:25 PM on August 23, 2008
posted by Meatbomb at 5:25 PM on August 23, 2008
Yeah, this seems safe to me too (FWIW), for the reasons everyone else has said. If you were drawing a lot of current (vacuum cleaners, microwaves, halogen torchieres) then maybe it'd be more of a worry. I'd put this at a 3 or even a 2 on jessamyn's danger scale.
posted by hattifattener at 5:57 PM on August 23, 2008
posted by hattifattener at 5:57 PM on August 23, 2008
If it's just loose storage of the sleeping bags, I don't see a particular problem, although it may be safer in principle to use a medium-duty extension cord rather than simple lamp cord.
posted by dhartung at 6:34 PM on August 23, 2008
posted by dhartung at 6:34 PM on August 23, 2008
I may be projecting because I live somewhere reasonably humid, but my bags definitely get musty even living in a cupboard year round. Also, I was always told not to keep them in the bags for storage. Being crushed and squashed is hard on the filling material and will damage it over time so they should just be folded and laid flat. Takes up more room but again has the side effect of making them less musty or damp and it's easier to keep them aired. Dust etc shouldn't be a worry because you can easily cover them with a sheet or something, even just by laying their bags over the top of them. The downside is that they'd cover your power cord even more if unwrapped, acting more like a blanket than the current solid lumps.
Even if you don't want to put them up on a shelf it should be possible to find some kind of plastic pipe or wrapping to put the cord through that is a bit bigger than the actual power cord. That will also leave a small air gap helping with overall air flow.
And if nothing else a monthly lift of the sleeping bags to check for the cord fraying or warming etc mentioned above will also move the air around and let you know if your bags are getting musty. You'd need to remember to do it but it wouldn't cost anything.
posted by shelleycat at 6:34 PM on August 23, 2008
Even if you don't want to put them up on a shelf it should be possible to find some kind of plastic pipe or wrapping to put the cord through that is a bit bigger than the actual power cord. That will also leave a small air gap helping with overall air flow.
And if nothing else a monthly lift of the sleeping bags to check for the cord fraying or warming etc mentioned above will also move the air around and let you know if your bags are getting musty. You'd need to remember to do it but it wouldn't cost anything.
posted by shelleycat at 6:34 PM on August 23, 2008
I wouldn't. Namely because of the electromagnetic fields that it creates and the sleeper above gets zapped non-stop. Other than that, there's always the chance that something catches on the wire, exposes a live one and due to the heat generated by the enclosed, covered area a house fire ensues. Surely you can find a different place for either the sleeping bags or the lamp. Lamps can be attached to a wall you know - and with a few clips so can their wires.
posted by watercarrier at 7:03 PM on August 23, 2008
posted by watercarrier at 7:03 PM on August 23, 2008
How about a 1-2 foot length of 2" or 3" PVC pipe? Use it as a little tunnel through Sleeping Bag Land. Allows air around the cord, keeps the cord from direct contact with the soft gear, costs a buck or two.
posted by chazlarson at 7:39 PM on August 23, 2008
posted by chazlarson at 7:39 PM on August 23, 2008
Hmm... Here's something interesting that happened to me.
We lost our AC in mid summer and had to run a small portable unit 24/7. The unit was rated for 500 square feet. I don't know what that translates into for wattage or amp draw.
The first day we had the heavy gauge extension cord covered by a blanket. When I came home that evening I noticed the blanket was warm in spots. So I uncovered the cord and it was hot to the touch.
Would the cord have gotten got enough to catch fire? I don't know. Is this anything more than anecdotal non-evidence of anything? Nope. But it's good to point out that extension cords can and do (even if they're heavy gauge) get pretty darn hot.
posted by krisak at 8:05 PM on August 23, 2008
We lost our AC in mid summer and had to run a small portable unit 24/7. The unit was rated for 500 square feet. I don't know what that translates into for wattage or amp draw.
The first day we had the heavy gauge extension cord covered by a blanket. When I came home that evening I noticed the blanket was warm in spots. So I uncovered the cord and it was hot to the touch.
Would the cord have gotten got enough to catch fire? I don't know. Is this anything more than anecdotal non-evidence of anything? Nope. But it's good to point out that extension cords can and do (even if they're heavy gauge) get pretty darn hot.
posted by krisak at 8:05 PM on August 23, 2008
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. I now have a Sunday project to get a little bit of a conduit built for the cable. And a new paranoia about the state of my sleeping bags! Haha.
posted by optimuscrime at 8:15 PM on August 23, 2008
posted by optimuscrime at 8:15 PM on August 23, 2008
I am an electrician. Cords on lamps are heavily insulated and are supposed to be able to with stand so fairly serious abuse. One safety issue here is what type of breaker is the receptacle plug on. If the home is new construction, and it is in a bedroom, then the breaker is likely to be an arc fault breaker. With such a breaker, which trips very easily, the chance of fire is very low, almost nil.
If it is an older home, with older breakers, the danger is higher.
Either way, it is not the safest thing to be doing. But, there are some things you can do to lessen the danger.
Rather than build something, you are better off getting electrical conduit, which is specifically designed to resist electrical fire. PVC is the cheapest option - but make sure you get electrical PVC (gray color), and not plumbing PVC (white color).
Also, if you plug the lamp into a surge protector power strip, that will help too. The surge protector will act as a mini breaker in case of over-heating or fire.
And, another thing that you should do is keep that wattage use of the lamp as low as possible. You should get a compact fluorescent bulb for the lamp (one of those new squiggly light bulbs). The risk of fire is much less when you use a 13 watt fluorescent bulb as opposed to a 100 watt incandesent bulb.
posted by Flood at 8:16 PM on August 23, 2008
If it is an older home, with older breakers, the danger is higher.
Either way, it is not the safest thing to be doing. But, there are some things you can do to lessen the danger.
Rather than build something, you are better off getting electrical conduit, which is specifically designed to resist electrical fire. PVC is the cheapest option - but make sure you get electrical PVC (gray color), and not plumbing PVC (white color).
Also, if you plug the lamp into a surge protector power strip, that will help too. The surge protector will act as a mini breaker in case of over-heating or fire.
And, another thing that you should do is keep that wattage use of the lamp as low as possible. You should get a compact fluorescent bulb for the lamp (one of those new squiggly light bulbs). The risk of fire is much less when you use a 13 watt fluorescent bulb as opposed to a 100 watt incandesent bulb.
posted by Flood at 8:16 PM on August 23, 2008
No need to build anything. What you need is a cord cover. Cheaper and easier.
posted by underwater at 9:23 PM on August 23, 2008
posted by underwater at 9:23 PM on August 23, 2008
jessamyn's answer is great. Except.. I'm not exactly sure what a 6 means, but it sounds a little high for a single-bulb lamp :) Now if it was an AC, maybe a 7 or 8..
If there is absolutely no foot traffic near this cord, I don't see what the cord cover or conduit is doing to help the situation... Well, it helps a little I guess. Suppose you had a mouse that liked the taste of lamp cord, or something - the covering would stop him. It is the unexpected stuff that is the real risk here. A mouse, a human house guest, etc.. It certainly helps that you are around to smell smells and notice flickers and such. Leaving electrical devices unattended adds a lot of risk.
In terms of actually evaluating the risk though, forget it. It can't be done. I mean, it can be done, but it would be a massive scientific undertaking, beyond the scope of most electrical safety codes (which are often written based on field experience, rather than prediction), and certainly beyond the scope of this question.
Here is an old question about running an AC on an extension cord (coupled with a lot of talk about grounding), and it has lots of quality answers and discussion:
The surge protector will act as a mini breaker in case of over-heating or fire.
How can it do anything about over-heating? I suppose some surge suppressors might have arc fault breakers, though it can't be very common.. And anyway, arcs aren't the only source of heat, not even the most significant source in this scenario - I expect a warn cord would develop a hot spot before there was any arching..
posted by Chuckles at 1:55 AM on August 27, 2008
If there is absolutely no foot traffic near this cord, I don't see what the cord cover or conduit is doing to help the situation... Well, it helps a little I guess. Suppose you had a mouse that liked the taste of lamp cord, or something - the covering would stop him. It is the unexpected stuff that is the real risk here. A mouse, a human house guest, etc.. It certainly helps that you are around to smell smells and notice flickers and such. Leaving electrical devices unattended adds a lot of risk.
In terms of actually evaluating the risk though, forget it. It can't be done. I mean, it can be done, but it would be a massive scientific undertaking, beyond the scope of most electrical safety codes (which are often written based on field experience, rather than prediction), and certainly beyond the scope of this question.
Here is an old question about running an AC on an extension cord (coupled with a lot of talk about grounding), and it has lots of quality answers and discussion:
The surge protector will act as a mini breaker in case of over-heating or fire.
How can it do anything about over-heating? I suppose some surge suppressors might have arc fault breakers, though it can't be very common.. And anyway, arcs aren't the only source of heat, not even the most significant source in this scenario - I expect a warn cord would develop a hot spot before there was any arching..
posted by Chuckles at 1:55 AM on August 27, 2008
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posted by you're a kitty! at 2:26 PM on August 23, 2008