small appetite, big city. and hold the shrimp!
August 12, 2008 2:22 PM Subscribe
Fine Dining question: (asked especially for upcoming trip to Las Vegas but applicable most anywhere) How have you handled your food allergies and/or petite appetite issues at posh places?
Soon, I and a friend are heading to Vegas and we're thinking about some places to enjoy some great food. Many of the places we'd like to try have exquisite sounding tasting menus, but I have a shellfish allergy. Some foodies have recommended that when we call for the reservations, ask if they can do a tasting menu that is shellfish-free. Is this something anyone has done? Is it commonly done? Is it considered rude?
On a related note, is there an acceptable practice for going to a restaurant and having a small plate, or something less than a full meal? I might like to try some appetizers or a cheese plate somewhere - I don't always want a full meal at dinner but it doesn't seem right to take up a table, especially at peak times. Has anyone here ever done this? Did you sit at the bar? Go early or late? Are some restaurants better for this than others?
General info and anecdotes are very welcome as are specific Vegas recommendations.
Soon, I and a friend are heading to Vegas and we're thinking about some places to enjoy some great food. Many of the places we'd like to try have exquisite sounding tasting menus, but I have a shellfish allergy. Some foodies have recommended that when we call for the reservations, ask if they can do a tasting menu that is shellfish-free. Is this something anyone has done? Is it commonly done? Is it considered rude?
On a related note, is there an acceptable practice for going to a restaurant and having a small plate, or something less than a full meal? I might like to try some appetizers or a cheese plate somewhere - I don't always want a full meal at dinner but it doesn't seem right to take up a table, especially at peak times. Has anyone here ever done this? Did you sit at the bar? Go early or late? Are some restaurants better for this than others?
General info and anecdotes are very welcome as are specific Vegas recommendations.
In my experience (mother is a serious foodie + allergic to mollusks), the vast majority of restaurants with tasting menus are happy to accomodate a relatively non-restrictive allergy. They'll make something else to replace a course featuring shellfish, and/or just omit them from dishes where they're a smaller part. No problem.
posted by Perplexity at 2:27 PM on August 12, 2008
posted by Perplexity at 2:27 PM on August 12, 2008
My boyfriend is a picky eater and we have been to 2 kaiseki meals in Japan. Both times we called ahead (at least 2 days) and explained the situation and they were happy to accommodate. There's a cute irony that while my family and I dined on multiple courses of exquisite regional dishes, my boyfriend was served a large portion of something akin to crispy honey chicken at a ryokan.
posted by spec80 at 2:37 PM on August 12, 2008
posted by spec80 at 2:37 PM on August 12, 2008
I don't eat much in one meal and have been to a variety of restaurants in the last year (since my dietary restriction started). I have never had a problem ordering a starter as a main course. I've never had anyone give me a hassle about it. If you're with someone who is also eating, then the check is slightly less than it would have been otherwise but not so much that they are going to be giving you the stinkeye from the kitchen or anything.
Tasting menus rock for this because the portions are small and you don't even have to finish them if you are getting full.
If you want to order a full meal anyway, and don't finish it...I've found that different places handle that differently. Some servers will ask if the food was okay, and I usually assure them that it was wonderful but that I am full, and that seems to satisfy them. I've also had food taken off the bill without even knowing it until the check came. You can deal with that however you want, but I usually tip very generously in that case. I've had to eat out alot for work in the last year and have gotten used to eating as much I want and not feeling guilty for leaving food behind. I know it can be difficult but on a vacation, especially, you should enjoy yourself.
posted by cabingirl at 2:47 PM on August 12, 2008
Tasting menus rock for this because the portions are small and you don't even have to finish them if you are getting full.
If you want to order a full meal anyway, and don't finish it...I've found that different places handle that differently. Some servers will ask if the food was okay, and I usually assure them that it was wonderful but that I am full, and that seems to satisfy them. I've also had food taken off the bill without even knowing it until the check came. You can deal with that however you want, but I usually tip very generously in that case. I've had to eat out alot for work in the last year and have gotten used to eating as much I want and not feeling guilty for leaving food behind. I know it can be difficult but on a vacation, especially, you should enjoy yourself.
posted by cabingirl at 2:47 PM on August 12, 2008
Best answer: Whether it is due to personal preference or personal safety issues, always communicate with your server. When ordering omakase or a tasting menu, the server should always ask if their is anything you can't eat. If they do not, step up and tell them. If you are ordering off a set menu and you are unsure of whether a dish or side contains something bad, ask. If the waiter seems unsure or doesn't know, smile and kindly ask them to check with the chef.
The chef wants you to not die in their establishment. Really.
I have to do this on many occasions due to a tragic allergy to eggplant. Of all the things to which I would not want to be allergic, eggplant is in the top ten. So it pains me when I have to tell a server to avoid anything with eggplant. I have had increasingly severe anaphylactic reactions from it so I try to stress that I need to avoid foods that even touch eggplant somewhere in the kitchen.
I've never had an issue with a server taking offense, but my leverage against that is my tip.
As for the small meal issue. Never worry about under ordering. Do however remember to tip very well AND not overstay your welcome. Spending two hours eating an 8 dollar salad will really screw the waitstaff.
As for Vegas...
The only thing there I would go back for is Lotus of Siam, north of the strip. Generally considered one of the best Thai places in the US. They actually have some spectacular appetizers that would make a great small entree. Also, their wine list is spectacular. Wine and food are reasonably priced. Very reasonably priced.
posted by Seamus at 3:03 PM on August 12, 2008
The chef wants you to not die in their establishment. Really.
I have to do this on many occasions due to a tragic allergy to eggplant. Of all the things to which I would not want to be allergic, eggplant is in the top ten. So it pains me when I have to tell a server to avoid anything with eggplant. I have had increasingly severe anaphylactic reactions from it so I try to stress that I need to avoid foods that even touch eggplant somewhere in the kitchen.
I've never had an issue with a server taking offense, but my leverage against that is my tip.
As for the small meal issue. Never worry about under ordering. Do however remember to tip very well AND not overstay your welcome. Spending two hours eating an 8 dollar salad will really screw the waitstaff.
As for Vegas...
The only thing there I would go back for is Lotus of Siam, north of the strip. Generally considered one of the best Thai places in the US. They actually have some spectacular appetizers that would make a great small entree. Also, their wine list is spectacular. Wine and food are reasonably priced. Very reasonably priced.
posted by Seamus at 3:03 PM on August 12, 2008
Best answer: Former server of several years here. Shellfish is one of the more common allergies servers hear about, and all restaurants are extremely keen on ensuring that allergic individuals are well accommodated. Reasons: 1) People with allergies eat out and are more likely to come back to/tell their friends about a place where they got great accommodation and service; and 2) They have a huge liability if you get exposed to an allergen and wind up sick/dead because of it.
One restaurant I worked at had pink "allergen tickets" we had to use if a guest told us they had an allergy. Most tickets of course went through the computer and printed a chit for the cooks- if you had an allergy at your table you had to ring in the food with the ALLERGY modifier and then fill out the allergen ticket, which listed the type of allergy and the modifications necessary for the dish. Even if there were no modifications they wanted to be sure that the dish doesn't ever come in contact with an allergen, such as through a cutting board or ladle or some such. That's an example of how conscientious nice places are towards guests with allergies.
You're actually going to find that going to nice, posh places is way better for your dietary needs than lower-quality "food assembly" style-restaurants. The reason for this is that while your food assembly joint's prep process may mostly involve reheating, the nicer places are actually cooking all of the food: they make their own sauces, pasta noodles, condiments, and what-have-you. Therefore, they're in a much better position to tailor the dish to your needs since they have more influence over what actually winds up on your plate.
Regarding small plates and small bills, the bottom line is you're a paying customer and you can order whatever you please. Believe me, your server has seen it ALL- from people sitting down at dinner rush and ordering water and splitting a bowl of soup to people just ordering water. If you're truly concerned about not being a hassle, just don't camp the table and you'll be set. You could optionally decide to sit at the bar- bartenders will be much more used to serving people a pair of cocktails and a pair of small plates, which may be what you're looking for.
posted by baphomet at 3:07 PM on August 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
One restaurant I worked at had pink "allergen tickets" we had to use if a guest told us they had an allergy. Most tickets of course went through the computer and printed a chit for the cooks- if you had an allergy at your table you had to ring in the food with the ALLERGY modifier and then fill out the allergen ticket, which listed the type of allergy and the modifications necessary for the dish. Even if there were no modifications they wanted to be sure that the dish doesn't ever come in contact with an allergen, such as through a cutting board or ladle or some such. That's an example of how conscientious nice places are towards guests with allergies.
You're actually going to find that going to nice, posh places is way better for your dietary needs than lower-quality "food assembly" style-restaurants. The reason for this is that while your food assembly joint's prep process may mostly involve reheating, the nicer places are actually cooking all of the food: they make their own sauces, pasta noodles, condiments, and what-have-you. Therefore, they're in a much better position to tailor the dish to your needs since they have more influence over what actually winds up on your plate.
Regarding small plates and small bills, the bottom line is you're a paying customer and you can order whatever you please. Believe me, your server has seen it ALL- from people sitting down at dinner rush and ordering water and splitting a bowl of soup to people just ordering water. If you're truly concerned about not being a hassle, just don't camp the table and you'll be set. You could optionally decide to sit at the bar- bartenders will be much more used to serving people a pair of cocktails and a pair of small plates, which may be what you're looking for.
posted by baphomet at 3:07 PM on August 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
In most cases they can accommodate you if they don't know until you're seated, but calling ahead often means you get more interesting substitutions. I would let them know when you make the reservations - it is absolutely not considered rude.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:25 PM on August 12, 2008
posted by Lyn Never at 3:25 PM on August 12, 2008
I routinely order an appetizer as my meal (both because that's just what looks best and because I'm not all that hungry), and order things knowing that I'll end up taking half of it home with me. I just ask for a box so they know I want to bring it with me. If someone didn't like their meal they might eat it there because it's already in front of them. But they'll be less likely to bring it home.
Also, try to plan your meal times so that you'll have time to actually get the food home. You probably don't want to leave certain dishes sitting in the car all day while you're out. Even if the food doesn't go bad, you've got a car that smells like food.
posted by theichibun at 3:58 PM on August 12, 2008
Also, try to plan your meal times so that you'll have time to actually get the food home. You probably don't want to leave certain dishes sitting in the car all day while you're out. Even if the food doesn't go bad, you've got a car that smells like food.
posted by theichibun at 3:58 PM on August 12, 2008
Response by poster: Mngo, I had not thought of the concierge as we are in a nice hotel. What a great idea!
theichibun, I once left a doggie bag of Mexican food in my car for most of a weekend. It was thankfully winter so nothing went rancid but boy howdy, did my car smell like a fiesta for a while. also, i love your name
posted by pointystick at 6:35 PM on August 12, 2008
theichibun, I once left a doggie bag of Mexican food in my car for most of a weekend. It was thankfully winter so nothing went rancid but boy howdy, did my car smell like a fiesta for a while. also, i love your name
posted by pointystick at 6:35 PM on August 12, 2008
Response by poster: Not that I *ate* the Mexican food. Although, that has probably been an Ask question...
posted by pointystick at 6:36 PM on August 12, 2008
posted by pointystick at 6:36 PM on August 12, 2008
Best answer: Calling ahead, as Lyn Never said, is the absolute best strategy for this. Call anytime from a week before to the afternoon of your dinner. Avoid calling during the dinner rush (anytime after six, mostly). Just share your concern: I have an allergy to shellfish, and was hoping to try the tasting menu. Can the chef make any adjustments to that menu? What else might you suggest?"
Fine dining restaurants are happy to take the trouble to customize your experience, and knowing your concerns ahead creates a far higher likelihood that someone will have thought about a good-quality substitution for you ahead of time, rather than making you the Last-Minute Generic Risotto or Polenta Queen all night just because they haven't had time to set something up in advance.
As to eating small plates in a fine dining place: in really nice places, it's unusual. There is a lot of care put into ordering the courses, and single-plating seems strange or cheap. The basic expectation of a fine-dining restaurant is that you're there for soup to nuts - or at least, salad to coffee. In those places I would suggest sitting at the bar if you want to nosh and sample many different dishes. If the restaurant is just upscale but not really "fine" exactly then you are probably very welcome to order any combination of plates in any order you want.
posted by Miko at 7:08 PM on August 12, 2008
Fine dining restaurants are happy to take the trouble to customize your experience, and knowing your concerns ahead creates a far higher likelihood that someone will have thought about a good-quality substitution for you ahead of time, rather than making you the Last-Minute Generic Risotto or Polenta Queen all night just because they haven't had time to set something up in advance.
As to eating small plates in a fine dining place: in really nice places, it's unusual. There is a lot of care put into ordering the courses, and single-plating seems strange or cheap. The basic expectation of a fine-dining restaurant is that you're there for soup to nuts - or at least, salad to coffee. In those places I would suggest sitting at the bar if you want to nosh and sample many different dishes. If the restaurant is just upscale but not really "fine" exactly then you are probably very welcome to order any combination of plates in any order you want.
posted by Miko at 7:08 PM on August 12, 2008
I went to Alinea (arguably the nicest/fanciest restaurant in the country) a few years back and made a reservation for three: one vegetarian, one "anything except pork and shellfish", and one omnivore. Once we were seated, our main waitperson came to the table and said "So I understand we're doing a tasting menu for one vegetarian, one "anything except pork and shellfish" and one with no restrictions. The omnivore said "Oh, did I not mention that I don't eat red food?" The waitperson blinked, smiled, and said "Certainly!" at which point the omnivore had to concede he was just joking. But I bet they'd have done it.
posted by judith at 8:43 PM on August 12, 2008
posted by judith at 8:43 PM on August 12, 2008
As someone who works in fine dining kitchens, I would emphasize the "call ahead" suggestion made by others. Give the chef ample time to create good substitutions for you, instead of having to do something off-the-cuff with what he has sitting around. Any chef worth his salt will welcome allergies as an opportunity to do something creative and to impress a guest.
To follow up on what judith said about Alinea, I was just in their kitchen for a week and was astounded by the amount of diners with allergies or aversions, but for them, it was no problem. They always knew ahead of time and always had something good prepared as a substitution. My last day there, I saw a hand-written menu Grant had made for 2 vegans coming in for dinner that night. He made up 17 courses (the standard tasting is 12 courses) for them. How cool is that? Plus they're getting Alinea dishes that no one else gets...
posted by BradNelson at 9:32 PM on August 12, 2008
To follow up on what judith said about Alinea, I was just in their kitchen for a week and was astounded by the amount of diners with allergies or aversions, but for them, it was no problem. They always knew ahead of time and always had something good prepared as a substitution. My last day there, I saw a hand-written menu Grant had made for 2 vegans coming in for dinner that night. He made up 17 courses (the standard tasting is 12 courses) for them. How cool is that? Plus they're getting Alinea dishes that no one else gets...
posted by BradNelson at 9:32 PM on August 12, 2008
Best answer: The better a restaurant is, the more accomodating they will be to your particular needs. At some really good restaurants, I've had the chef come out to my table and chat with me about how he or she intends to get around the fact I can't eat gluten, by doing some crazily creative and enjoyable thing with rice or corn or whatever. This is more common at the really expensive restaurants, but I've had it happen at good places that are not totally luxe.
I used to be really embarrassed about mentioning my gluten intolerance but after all these good experiences I don't mind any more. When I do occasionally get an uncomprehending or unaccomodating response, I just think to myself, "Well, this restaurant doesn't take as good care of me as all those other places I've been."
If you're going anywhere in the Venetian, by the way, I can personally attest that any of those restaurants will handle a dietary intolerance with style and grace and without batting an eye. Also, B+B served me one of the finest meals I've ever had anywhere on Earth, and I am probably what you would call a dedicated foodie, so that's pretty high praise.
posted by ikkyu2 at 10:02 PM on August 12, 2008
I used to be really embarrassed about mentioning my gluten intolerance but after all these good experiences I don't mind any more. When I do occasionally get an uncomprehending or unaccomodating response, I just think to myself, "Well, this restaurant doesn't take as good care of me as all those other places I've been."
If you're going anywhere in the Venetian, by the way, I can personally attest that any of those restaurants will handle a dietary intolerance with style and grace and without batting an eye. Also, B+B served me one of the finest meals I've ever had anywhere on Earth, and I am probably what you would call a dedicated foodie, so that's pretty high praise.
posted by ikkyu2 at 10:02 PM on August 12, 2008
The allergen thing has been covered quite nicely, speak up and they'll work with you...gives the kitchen a chance to do something a little different too.
As far as ordering small plates, no worries, just don't stint the tip. Please don't forget to tip as if you were ordering a full meal....takes the same amount of time for the server and they will appreciate it. Same thing if something is comp'ed, tip on the full amount of the bill, not the lower total (unless of course stuff was comp'ed because your server was a moron :)
posted by legotech at 4:32 PM on August 13, 2008
As far as ordering small plates, no worries, just don't stint the tip. Please don't forget to tip as if you were ordering a full meal....takes the same amount of time for the server and they will appreciate it. Same thing if something is comp'ed, tip on the full amount of the bill, not the lower total (unless of course stuff was comp'ed because your server was a moron :)
posted by legotech at 4:32 PM on August 13, 2008
Please don't forget to tip as if you were ordering a full meal...
This confuses me; just tip a decent percentage on the bill you did run up. You don't need to tip as if you ate/drank more than you did - just don't shortchange the amount. Use the bill as a guideline and tip the normal percentage you would use for a place of that type and service level.
posted by Miko at 7:02 AM on August 14, 2008
This confuses me; just tip a decent percentage on the bill you did run up. You don't need to tip as if you ate/drank more than you did - just don't shortchange the amount. Use the bill as a guideline and tip the normal percentage you would use for a place of that type and service level.
posted by Miko at 7:02 AM on August 14, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
Dining in Vegas, even at the high end, always feels a bit more industrialized to me, so maybe the front staff / reservations people or even the chefs won't be as flexible, but you're right to expect it.
If you're paying good money for your hotel, you might also talk to a concierge.
posted by Mngo at 2:25 PM on August 12, 2008