How does this usually work?

July 9, 2008 5:37 AM

So, how does one usually go from their first job to their second one?

**A bit long - skip to the 3rd paragraph for the real question **

I'm at my first Real Job (TM) in a small group that does a very specific, somewhat repetitive task in a big corporation - we basically tackle the same kind of problem over and over again every couple of months. Unfortunately, there's pretty much no room for me to grow and keep learning new things unless I go elsewhere in the company (I was too naive to realize this when coming right out of school), and for the past few months I've been feeling rather unchallenged and stagnant.

When I brought this up with my managers, they agreed that in my current role my gaining more technical or managerial skills was unlikely given the limited scope of the group's mission and the tiny size of my group. Subsequently, we all said we'd all do our part in helping me find an internal transfer. But despite my managers and me speaking with other groups left and right, things have been coming up empty; the corporation as a whole is actually downsizing considerably. Since I'm rather bored and the corporation is shrinking with no turnaround in sight anyway, I'm thinking it might be time to start looking at other companies entirely. I don't plan on looking intensely ASAP, but I could see this becoming necessary in a few months.

** real question here **
But assuming my managers don't lay me off before I start looking (a possibility I can accept), wouldn't I presumably need references from my first job to get a second one, since I've got no other prior relevant experience? I've been out of school for a couple of years and don't feel like I could use my professors as references, and feel it's gauche to ask my current bosses under the circumstances. I'm in a technical field, so volunteer work-type references would probably be insufficient as well. So, do I find a trusted coworker to ask as a reference? Someone else at the company who's not in my group, but is familiar with my reputation and soft skills? A professor from long ago? Or do I wait it out for a few months, and have a frank discussion with my managers and simultaneously ask for references and then resign (this does not appeal to me at all)? How does this usually work?

Suggestions appreciated, thanks!

posted by anonymous to work & money (8 comments total)

You can use coworkers. In fact, using your boss as a reference while you're still working for him is pretty uncommon, I think. Any company worth working for understands discretion, and they'll generally not inquire with your boss (or your current HR department) until you accept their offer.

Find someone at your company that you have worked with, that can attest to your skills and work ethic. Someone with years of experience would be good. Since you will basically be admitting to this person that you're looking for another job, make sure it's someone you can trust and be discreet about it.
posted by backseatpilot at 5:44 AM on July 9

You already said that the managers agree there are no possibilities for gaining new skills. They have worked with you to find an internal transfer. Obviously they are expecting you to look elsewhere. Personally I don't find it gauche to have a frank conversation with your current boss about the outlook of your position at the company and throw out the fact that you'd like to start looking for employment elsewhere and if he/she would be willing to be a reference. I've done it in the past for a boss that I was very close with that was not able to do anything for me in my current position. In the best of all worlds a company should always expect that their workers will be seeking greater things and moving on and up, if they can't keep you there by offering you anything the least they could do is provide feedback on your performance should someone call and ask. Then again I realize that we don't live in the best of all possible worlds and YourMileageDefinitelyWillVary.

Coworkers, especially ones that worked directly with you on tasks are not uncommon so I think that's definitely an outlet. If this is your first Real Job I wouldn't think it's been long since you've been in school so I don't think professors are out of the realm of possibility either. Have you volunteered or helped out in any other organizations or capacities where someone could vouch for your work ethic? Doesn't have to be a paid position somewhere.
posted by genial at 5:59 AM on July 9

This may be country specific, but in the UK the sequence always seems to be:
- get job offer from new company (subject to references)
- get reference from old company (usually these now just come from HR and say "x worked here from t1 to t2")

Unless you're seriously worried about references being bad (eg disciplinary problems) I don't think you should worry about this. People move jobs all the time, and companies know you are working for someone else while looking and don't try to embarrass you by calling your boss early in the process.

(other countries than UK: YMMV)
posted by crocomancer at 6:01 AM on July 9

Your new employer won't generally check references at your current employer until they've got a firm offer subject to references for you. Don't stress this too much. It's great if you can offer a trusted co-worker to act as a reference for you (especially since your boss probably won't/can't based on corporate regulations) but it's usually not necessary. The people you're interviewing with know this is a normal issue.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:49 AM on July 9

A lot of companies don't even bother with references anymore. Many employers, fearful of liability issues, won't say anything beyond confirming that you worked there. Likewise, the new employer knows that personal references that you are providing are pre-screened by you and not likely to provide any real insight, so they don't bother.

So look for a new job and don't sweat the reference issue.
posted by COD at 6:49 AM on July 9

When presented with a reference that is clearly a coworker and not a manager, I have always interpreted this as code for "some problem with actual management", so be careful with that.

It sounds like your managers understand the lack of challenge, so I doubt they would give you a bad review anyway. Start looking, do not include any current employment references until and unless asked.

And if at that point it causes friction back at your current job, I think you're well covered with "Well, we've been looking for another job for me here for (x) months, I'm starting to lose hope."
posted by rokusan at 7:44 AM on July 9

Just apply and explain your situation. Most job applications actually ask if a reference should be contacted, and or if your current employer knows you are looking. Don't sweat the reference issue.
posted by xammerboy at 9:00 AM on July 9

I know it's nerve-wracking to talk to your current boss about this, but it may be the best bet. They've already shown that they are willing to help you find something new, and they know how poor the internal prospects are. I can't imagine they would be surprised you're looking outside.

And as someone who has done some hiring, it's always really impressive when a candidate's able to offer their current supervisor as a reference.
posted by lunasol at 11:11 AM on July 9