Mrs. Robinson Filter: Is it always a bad idea?
July 4, 2008 9:39 AM Subscribe
Mrs. Robinson Filter: Is it always a bad idea? I was recently introduced to a woman through a mutual friend. In the course of our initial conversation I discover that we are neighbors (she lives one flat down from me), we talk for some time and agree that we have a really nice rapport with one another, she explains that she is in her mid forties (I'm in my late twenties), married and doesn't really have a lot of friends she gets along well with.
Seeing as I work from home and she is currently between freelance jobs at the moment, we agree to hang out the following day at my place. The next day she comes by around lunch-time with a bottle of wine and we plant ourselves on the back porch to talk. The conversation flows effortlessly. We talk about our favorite bands, and I listen with rapture to her crazy stories about the heyday of rock and punk music. Like a humble student I marvel at her command of literature and popular culture. We've only known one another for a matter of hours, but it feels like we've been friends for ages. More and more I find myself feeling attracted to her, but I say nothing given the circumstances. As the afternoon turns to evening and our bottle of wine turns into several, she coyly tells me I'm cute and I laugh nervously while burying my eyes somewhere in the floorboards. I glance back up at her and she's looking at me, the moment is there and she bends closer to me and gives me a brief yet sensuous kiss. At this point I don't really know what to say, so I just state the obvious and manage to get out "you're married." At this point, for the sake of brevity, I'll paraphrase what happened next:
She proceeds to tell me (in a strangely serene and matter-of-fact manner) that while she and her husband have no plans on leaving each other, their marriage is far from being a real relationship. She explains that they have settled into a kind of formal relationship with each other, meaning specifically that they pretty much live together and support one another, but all of the sexual aspects of a real relationship are lacking. Evidently his sex drive is low and what drive he has is satiated with his extensive pornography collection, which he makes no effort to hide from her.
She explains that she is not looking for a relationship, she is purely looking for sexual release, something she says she has not had for over 10 years. She says she feels comfortable with me and feels that if I agreed to her proposal we could have a very discreet relationship with each other that would be mutually beneficial, given that I have no desire for a relationship at the moment.
I understand that this is basically a bad idea given the fact that she IS married, but I also understand that marriage isn't just a word it's a relationship that you share with someone. For instance my own parents were married for six years after they had agreed to see other people.
I think I'm just really conflicted. I've never been close to being in a situation like this before. I do like her a lot and, in reality, it's the closest thing to a perfect relationship for me right now, given that I have no desire for a girlfriend and never feel fulfilled by having random one night stands. She seems to fully understand what she is doing and has already been quite clear about her intentions.
So... Any advise out there?
Seeing as I work from home and she is currently between freelance jobs at the moment, we agree to hang out the following day at my place. The next day she comes by around lunch-time with a bottle of wine and we plant ourselves on the back porch to talk. The conversation flows effortlessly. We talk about our favorite bands, and I listen with rapture to her crazy stories about the heyday of rock and punk music. Like a humble student I marvel at her command of literature and popular culture. We've only known one another for a matter of hours, but it feels like we've been friends for ages. More and more I find myself feeling attracted to her, but I say nothing given the circumstances. As the afternoon turns to evening and our bottle of wine turns into several, she coyly tells me I'm cute and I laugh nervously while burying my eyes somewhere in the floorboards. I glance back up at her and she's looking at me, the moment is there and she bends closer to me and gives me a brief yet sensuous kiss. At this point I don't really know what to say, so I just state the obvious and manage to get out "you're married." At this point, for the sake of brevity, I'll paraphrase what happened next:
She proceeds to tell me (in a strangely serene and matter-of-fact manner) that while she and her husband have no plans on leaving each other, their marriage is far from being a real relationship. She explains that they have settled into a kind of formal relationship with each other, meaning specifically that they pretty much live together and support one another, but all of the sexual aspects of a real relationship are lacking. Evidently his sex drive is low and what drive he has is satiated with his extensive pornography collection, which he makes no effort to hide from her.
She explains that she is not looking for a relationship, she is purely looking for sexual release, something she says she has not had for over 10 years. She says she feels comfortable with me and feels that if I agreed to her proposal we could have a very discreet relationship with each other that would be mutually beneficial, given that I have no desire for a relationship at the moment.
I understand that this is basically a bad idea given the fact that she IS married, but I also understand that marriage isn't just a word it's a relationship that you share with someone. For instance my own parents were married for six years after they had agreed to see other people.
I think I'm just really conflicted. I've never been close to being in a situation like this before. I do like her a lot and, in reality, it's the closest thing to a perfect relationship for me right now, given that I have no desire for a girlfriend and never feel fulfilled by having random one night stands. She seems to fully understand what she is doing and has already been quite clear about her intentions.
So... Any advise out there?
This post was deleted for the following reason: poster's request - no way to anonymize replies, sorry! -- jessamyn
You say that you have no desire for a girlfriend, and that this is the closest thing to a perfect relationship for you. At the risk of sounding pessimistic, I think that getting involved with this woman is a lot more likely to result in a girlfriend than it is in a perfect relationship.
posted by box at 9:50 AM on July 4, 2008
posted by box at 9:50 AM on July 4, 2008
Are you okay with being "that guy"? Are you okay with this possibly blowing up and becoming a huge deal? Are you okay with her husband chasing you with a hammer? Are you really okay with not having feelings for her (because you've already fallen for her and you want her more than as a fuck buddy) and are you willing to shit not only where you eat but where you live?
If yes to all of those questions, then go for it. It's your funeral.
posted by Stynxno at 9:50 AM on July 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
If yes to all of those questions, then go for it. It's your funeral.
posted by Stynxno at 9:50 AM on July 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
she feels comfortable with me and feels that if I agreed to her proposal we could have a very discreet relationship with each other
How discreet could it be? You two are next door neighbors! I find it very hard to believe her husband wouldn't find out. And then when he does find out, he knows where you live. If a clause of the relationship is that her husband can't know about it, I don't think you should do it.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:51 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
How discreet could it be? You two are next door neighbors! I find it very hard to believe her husband wouldn't find out. And then when he does find out, he knows where you live. If a clause of the relationship is that her husband can't know about it, I don't think you should do it.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:51 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
This is a very bad idea. It will get complicated, it will get messy, there is no good ending to this.
posted by HuronBob at 9:54 AM on July 4, 2008
posted by HuronBob at 9:54 AM on July 4, 2008
Seems to me its her mistake to make.. not yours. Tell her that.. and if she is still keen and you want to do it.. do it. You're young, get some scars, get laid.
If its too much of a headfuck for you (as it seems to be).. then don't. you want to enjoy it, not be depressed by the experience.
posted by TheOtherGuy at 9:56 AM on July 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
If its too much of a headfuck for you (as it seems to be).. then don't. you want to enjoy it, not be depressed by the experience.
posted by TheOtherGuy at 9:56 AM on July 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
If you want to do it and she wants to do it, do it. Otherwise, don't.
posted by Lleyam at 10:03 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Lleyam at 10:03 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Sounds fun to me, but I'm not much of a romantic/idealist. Plus I agree with TheOtherGuy re the marriage issues are her deal, not yours.
Just be aware that this may be her first step (whether it's completely self-aware or not) toward breaking up with her husband. That's how people do it sometimes. So don't be shocked if that happens -- she won't be "leaving him for you," she'll just be leaving him.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 10:04 AM on July 4, 2008
Just be aware that this may be her first step (whether it's completely self-aware or not) toward breaking up with her husband. That's how people do it sometimes. So don't be shocked if that happens -- she won't be "leaving him for you," she'll just be leaving him.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 10:04 AM on July 4, 2008
If a clause of the relationship is that her husband can't know about it, I don't think you should do it.
Bingo. She's married, which means hands off period unless there is a clear understanding--verified by both parties--that this sort of thing is allowed.
This is a really, really spectacularly bad idea that can only end poorly. If you're into older women, there are plenty of hot, fun, horny older women out there who are single.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:04 AM on July 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
Bingo. She's married, which means hands off period unless there is a clear understanding--verified by both parties--that this sort of thing is allowed.
This is a really, really spectacularly bad idea that can only end poorly. If you're into older women, there are plenty of hot, fun, horny older women out there who are single.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:04 AM on July 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
This could make your living arrangements very uncomfortable in a number of ways.
posted by loiseau at 10:14 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by loiseau at 10:14 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Integrity: not sleeping with a married person.
She has found you, a handsome, young person that she is attracted to. It's very convenient for her. It may appear convenient for you. It won't be. Don't sleep with married people no matter how perfect or harmless it seems. It's never a good idea, especially with a neighbor. It's a Maury Povich show. It's tacky.
Besides, you hardly know her. How do you know she is telling you the truth? Even if she is telling the truth, it's irrelevant. Be true to yourself. What is your moral code? Do you want to be somebody that sleeps with married women?
posted by LoriFLA at 10:16 AM on July 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
She has found you, a handsome, young person that she is attracted to. It's very convenient for her. It may appear convenient for you. It won't be. Don't sleep with married people no matter how perfect or harmless it seems. It's never a good idea, especially with a neighbor. It's a Maury Povich show. It's tacky.
Besides, you hardly know her. How do you know she is telling you the truth? Even if she is telling the truth, it's irrelevant. Be true to yourself. What is your moral code? Do you want to be somebody that sleeps with married women?
posted by LoriFLA at 10:16 AM on July 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
I am completely with Stynxno. It's her decision to cheat on her husband, yeah, but that doesn't mean he won't try to kill you if he finds out. And I mean literally, try to kill you. He could even succeed. His reaction might not be violent, but the point is you can't know that. I would really not fuck around with that. Especially since you live next door.
I feel badly for the woman's situation, sure. But if his wife needs sexual release she should try to get her husband's permission to have sex with you first. If he won't give permission, she should get a divorce. If someone says, "I will be with you, but only under the condition of monogamy," you make a decision. You weigh what you're getting versus what you're giving up. You don't lie to them and violate their conditions to make up for anything. If she can't be happy under the conditions of their relationship -- monogamy -- it doesn't matter if he "ought" to be having more sex with her, or however else she wants to blame him. Maybe things would be better if he had more sex with her, or looked at less porn, but it's irrelevant. She has no right whatsoever to lie to him instead of ending the relationship before fucking other people. Screwing around on him is immature, not to mention she's using her husband -- for all the non-sexual perks he offers -- instead of respecting him a person. He agreed to provide those perks for her if she was monogamous to him. They can either reach a new agreement or move on. That she isn't planning to be honest with him is both selfish and cowardly. Personally, I would have trouble fucking a person like that, just because I would have little respect for them.
I realize it's easy to forget those things, and people make mistakes. I feel like people should be held to a higher standard when it comes needlessly hurting those they love and using people, though. A great deal of pain would be avoided if she were more mature. It's much better that she tell him she can't be in a sexless relationship and end it, than cheat on him. Break-ups suck no matter what, but at least he won't have horrible trust issues to overcome in later relationships. Plus, at least if she was upfront about it, he might make a final effort to fix their sex life. It might be successful, even. And if it isn't, well, nothing lost, relationship would end as planned.
Furthermore, you sound way too attached to her to have only a sexual relationship. I'm concerned that you're only going to end up hurt anyway.
In other words, it seems like a terrible idea all around.
posted by Nattie at 10:29 AM on July 4, 2008 [7 favorites]
I feel badly for the woman's situation, sure. But if his wife needs sexual release she should try to get her husband's permission to have sex with you first. If he won't give permission, she should get a divorce. If someone says, "I will be with you, but only under the condition of monogamy," you make a decision. You weigh what you're getting versus what you're giving up. You don't lie to them and violate their conditions to make up for anything. If she can't be happy under the conditions of their relationship -- monogamy -- it doesn't matter if he "ought" to be having more sex with her, or however else she wants to blame him. Maybe things would be better if he had more sex with her, or looked at less porn, but it's irrelevant. She has no right whatsoever to lie to him instead of ending the relationship before fucking other people. Screwing around on him is immature, not to mention she's using her husband -- for all the non-sexual perks he offers -- instead of respecting him a person. He agreed to provide those perks for her if she was monogamous to him. They can either reach a new agreement or move on. That she isn't planning to be honest with him is both selfish and cowardly. Personally, I would have trouble fucking a person like that, just because I would have little respect for them.
I realize it's easy to forget those things, and people make mistakes. I feel like people should be held to a higher standard when it comes needlessly hurting those they love and using people, though. A great deal of pain would be avoided if she were more mature. It's much better that she tell him she can't be in a sexless relationship and end it, than cheat on him. Break-ups suck no matter what, but at least he won't have horrible trust issues to overcome in later relationships. Plus, at least if she was upfront about it, he might make a final effort to fix their sex life. It might be successful, even. And if it isn't, well, nothing lost, relationship would end as planned.
Furthermore, you sound way too attached to her to have only a sexual relationship. I'm concerned that you're only going to end up hurt anyway.
In other words, it seems like a terrible idea all around.
posted by Nattie at 10:29 AM on July 4, 2008 [7 favorites]
I understand that this is basically a bad idea given the fact that she IS married
There's your answer.
Do you want to be somebody that sleeps with married women?
Not only that, but do you want to be someone who sleeps with a married woman for years on end? Pseudo relationships like this have a way of lasting for years. You might both be getting enough out of it to just keep drifting with the tide instead of her facing up to the problems in her marriage and you finding someone you can have a life with, rather than just the occasional shag. Do you like the idea of spending all your Christmasses, New Years, Valentine's Day, birthdays and most weekends and evenings alone as long as this lasts?
I'd advise against it, but at the very least don't do it until you've got proof of some kind that the husband accepts the situation.
posted by orange swan at 10:31 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
There's your answer.
Do you want to be somebody that sleeps with married women?
Not only that, but do you want to be someone who sleeps with a married woman for years on end? Pseudo relationships like this have a way of lasting for years. You might both be getting enough out of it to just keep drifting with the tide instead of her facing up to the problems in her marriage and you finding someone you can have a life with, rather than just the occasional shag. Do you like the idea of spending all your Christmasses, New Years, Valentine's Day, birthdays and most weekends and evenings alone as long as this lasts?
I'd advise against it, but at the very least don't do it until you've got proof of some kind that the husband accepts the situation.
posted by orange swan at 10:31 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
People go outside of a relationship to satisfy unmet needs all the time, especially when sex drives are mismatched. Ironically, sometimes it is this infidelity that prevents the relationship from collapsing. You're both interested, you have great chemistry, and you both don't want a committed relationship, so it sounds like a perfect arrangement.
Regardless of whether she's being completely honest about her husband signing off on this, it's her decision to lie to her husband or not. If he finds out, and if it does destroy the marriage, maybe it's even for the best --- I've never understood the idea of keeping a relationship together at all costs, at the expense of the happiness and sanity of those in it.
My one concern, though-- does she have kids still living at home? If so, I'd advise against it; they would be collateral damage in the breakup.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:33 AM on July 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
Regardless of whether she's being completely honest about her husband signing off on this, it's her decision to lie to her husband or not. If he finds out, and if it does destroy the marriage, maybe it's even for the best --- I've never understood the idea of keeping a relationship together at all costs, at the expense of the happiness and sanity of those in it.
My one concern, though-- does she have kids still living at home? If so, I'd advise against it; they would be collateral damage in the breakup.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:33 AM on July 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
What if you suddenly want to take someone to the Fourth of July parade? Would it bother you that you could probably never go out and have fun together in public? And that meanwhile, you also wouldn't really be interested in meeting someone whom you could take to dinner parties?
What if you just hooked up, and you're feeling really sleepy and cozy, or maybe you want to confess that your feelings for her have really started to turn a bit serious, but she jumps up and says "Oh no, Joe is almost home! I have to run!" Does it bother you that you are something she fits in on the side? What if you realize the relationship has started to feel "real" to you and is something "fun and light" to her?
What if you break your leg and you suddenly start wishing you had someone who would hover over you, get your prescription filled, and make you dinner? Would it bother you that this is a situation where you cannot expect much support, if any, since her allegiance is elsewhere? Can you then continue the hook-ups, or do you start to get bitter about what you can and cannot expect from the situation?
What if (god forbid) your family member dies, and you call her for some comfort, but all she says on the phone (her husband must be there) is "2 pm you'll drop off the hose? great, thanks, see you then" and hangs up?
What if she calls you late at night and says that her husband found out and is kicking her out, and can she come stay at your place, and then you hear her sobbing all night and her desperate phone calls begging him to reconsider and him shouting on the other end?
There are some real drawbacks to being in a relationship with someone who is in a relationship with someone else, even when that other party knows and says okay. If you don't think those will bother you, and you're prepared for them to happen, then you might be fine. Be prepared to be ready to end it when you do start wanting a real relationship so this one won't hold you back from finding one (rather than hoping this will turn into one).
posted by salvia at 10:39 AM on July 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
What if you just hooked up, and you're feeling really sleepy and cozy, or maybe you want to confess that your feelings for her have really started to turn a bit serious, but she jumps up and says "Oh no, Joe is almost home! I have to run!" Does it bother you that you are something she fits in on the side? What if you realize the relationship has started to feel "real" to you and is something "fun and light" to her?
What if you break your leg and you suddenly start wishing you had someone who would hover over you, get your prescription filled, and make you dinner? Would it bother you that this is a situation where you cannot expect much support, if any, since her allegiance is elsewhere? Can you then continue the hook-ups, or do you start to get bitter about what you can and cannot expect from the situation?
What if (god forbid) your family member dies, and you call her for some comfort, but all she says on the phone (her husband must be there) is "2 pm you'll drop off the hose? great, thanks, see you then" and hangs up?
What if she calls you late at night and says that her husband found out and is kicking her out, and can she come stay at your place, and then you hear her sobbing all night and her desperate phone calls begging him to reconsider and him shouting on the other end?
There are some real drawbacks to being in a relationship with someone who is in a relationship with someone else, even when that other party knows and says okay. If you don't think those will bother you, and you're prepared for them to happen, then you might be fine. Be prepared to be ready to end it when you do start wanting a real relationship so this one won't hold you back from finding one (rather than hoping this will turn into one).
posted by salvia at 10:39 AM on July 4, 2008 [5 favorites]
Regardless of whether she's being completely honest about her husband signing off on this, it's her decision to lie to her husband or not.
Yup, and it's the OP's decision whether or not to be complicit in the lying, dishonesty, breaking of marriage vows, etc. Shuffling off all responsibility by saying "well it's her decision" is kind of self-serving. It does, in fact, take two to tango.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:44 AM on July 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
Yup, and it's the OP's decision whether or not to be complicit in the lying, dishonesty, breaking of marriage vows, etc. Shuffling off all responsibility by saying "well it's her decision" is kind of self-serving. It does, in fact, take two to tango.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:44 AM on July 4, 2008 [3 favorites]
I'd say the fact that she's a neighbor is a bigger problem than her being married. Her husband could assent (explicitly or implicitly), but the neighbor thing won't change unless you move.
posted by rhizome at 10:44 AM on July 4, 2008
posted by rhizome at 10:44 AM on July 4, 2008
to echo:
More likely than not, it would be a lot of fun.
There is extremely little to no chance that it will end smoothly and without drama, perhaps a near overwhelming amount of drama.
Plus, in the future you have met a girl and you two are getting along great. One night you launch into a story of when you were sleeping with the married chick in your building. This will not be viewed as a good reflection of your character. She may end up not caring, but it will inspire the raised eyebrow and a request for more details at the start.
posted by spartacusroosevelt at 10:47 AM on July 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
More likely than not, it would be a lot of fun.
There is extremely little to no chance that it will end smoothly and without drama, perhaps a near overwhelming amount of drama.
Plus, in the future you have met a girl and you two are getting along great. One night you launch into a story of when you were sleeping with the married chick in your building. This will not be viewed as a good reflection of your character. She may end up not caring, but it will inspire the raised eyebrow and a request for more details at the start.
posted by spartacusroosevelt at 10:47 AM on July 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
She came over to your place by herself with a bottle of wine. She was looking to get laid. This was not the alcohol talking. She's the married one, you are not. If it weren't you, it would probably be someone else.
Here's the caveat, though: you live next to her. When that relationship ends, and it will, you will not want to have any chance of running into her. Or her husband. You did yourself a pretty big favor by not sleeping with her, see if you can't get your mind onto another girl or something equally distracting before you wind up doing something you regret for as long as you live in that building.
posted by GooseOnTheLoose at 10:48 AM on July 4, 2008
Here's the caveat, though: you live next to her. When that relationship ends, and it will, you will not want to have any chance of running into her. Or her husband. You did yourself a pretty big favor by not sleeping with her, see if you can't get your mind onto another girl or something equally distracting before you wind up doing something you regret for as long as you live in that building.
posted by GooseOnTheLoose at 10:48 AM on July 4, 2008
She proceeds to tell me (in a strangely serene and matter-of-fact manner) that while she and her husband have no plans on leaving each other, their marriage is far from being a real relationship. She explains that they have settled into a kind of formal relationship with each other, meaning specifically that they pretty much live together and support one another, but all of the sexual aspects of a real relationship are lacking. Evidently his sex drive is low and what drive he has is satiated with his extensive pornography collection, which he makes no effort to hide from her.
I've heard this a million times before—this is what people I know who've insisted on sleeping with married people have told me those married people told them. This is such a cliché it's not even funny—'cause the really sad part is that she probably actually believes this. But here's the thing: It's serene and matter-of-fact because it's just a rehashing of the line she's told herself a million times to justify what she wants to do. It's serene and matter-of-fact because it's a story, even if she isn't self-aware enough (or won't allow herself enough self-awareness right now) to realize that.
Their relationship may not seem "real" to her, and it may in fact be every bit as dysfunctional as she says it is ... but legally, monetarily and residentially, it's a real fucking relationship. Her saying it's "not real" doesn't make it disappear, and the fact that she's saying something like that shows that she thinks she can just change the label attached to her very real, very existent relationship and somehow spirit it into nonexistence. It's a word game she's playing with herself—and now with you as well—to avoid dealing with her circumstances for what they are.
It's every bit as make-believe as "Let's pretend this apartment is a ship lost at sea, and we're the only two people in it, so we have to fuck to pass the time." You'll be called back to port real quick when that "not real" husband of hers figures out what's happening.
Another line not to believe, if you choose to do this anyway: "Oh, he knows about us, but he doesn't care. It's fine." As Richard Pryor once wisely counseled, this kind of thing is how people end up dead (you and/or her) or in jail (her husband). A low libido != a low penchant for violence.
posted by limeonaire at 10:52 AM on July 4, 2008 [9 favorites]
I've heard this a million times before—this is what people I know who've insisted on sleeping with married people have told me those married people told them. This is such a cliché it's not even funny—'cause the really sad part is that she probably actually believes this. But here's the thing: It's serene and matter-of-fact because it's just a rehashing of the line she's told herself a million times to justify what she wants to do. It's serene and matter-of-fact because it's a story, even if she isn't self-aware enough (or won't allow herself enough self-awareness right now) to realize that.
Their relationship may not seem "real" to her, and it may in fact be every bit as dysfunctional as she says it is ... but legally, monetarily and residentially, it's a real fucking relationship. Her saying it's "not real" doesn't make it disappear, and the fact that she's saying something like that shows that she thinks she can just change the label attached to her very real, very existent relationship and somehow spirit it into nonexistence. It's a word game she's playing with herself—and now with you as well—to avoid dealing with her circumstances for what they are.
It's every bit as make-believe as "Let's pretend this apartment is a ship lost at sea, and we're the only two people in it, so we have to fuck to pass the time." You'll be called back to port real quick when that "not real" husband of hers figures out what's happening.
Another line not to believe, if you choose to do this anyway: "Oh, he knows about us, but he doesn't care. It's fine." As Richard Pryor once wisely counseled, this kind of thing is how people end up dead (you and/or her) or in jail (her husband). A low libido != a low penchant for violence.
posted by limeonaire at 10:52 AM on July 4, 2008 [9 favorites]
Seconding TheOtherGuy, if you keep the bondaries clearly defined, you can have a good friend with a few added bonuses.
It's a humanitarian mission with perks-- she's not getting a shag at all otherwise, how depressing is that.
Only you can judge your level of guilt, I don't see why you should feel any-- she doesn't seem to. If you're tempted, talk to her, address these concerns with her, as long as you know the boundaries then have as much fun as you can stand.
If either of you start getting dopy eyed for each other, end it. Unless, of course, you're both dopy eyed for each other... :)
posted by Static Vagabond at 10:53 AM on July 4, 2008
It's a humanitarian mission with perks-- she's not getting a shag at all otherwise, how depressing is that.
Only you can judge your level of guilt, I don't see why you should feel any-- she doesn't seem to. If you're tempted, talk to her, address these concerns with her, as long as you know the boundaries then have as much fun as you can stand.
If either of you start getting dopy eyed for each other, end it. Unless, of course, you're both dopy eyed for each other... :)
posted by Static Vagabond at 10:53 AM on July 4, 2008
This is a very bad idea. She has problems in her marriage, feels undesired and worthless. She needs to work on the marriage, or get a divorce. She doesn't have a lot of friends? An affair with a neighbor will not help her loneliness. Don't get in the middle. She may say she is only looking for sexual release, but that is not really true. She is looking to feel desired, and being desired by a younger man is a real bonus. She is actually a sea of conflicting emotions. Don't get caught up in that mess.
And you, Mr. anonymous. What is up with you? You say you work at home. You need to get out more, develop more interests and activities. You sound lonely as well and you seem to have issues about relationships that you might need to work on (maybe your parents' screwed up marriage has affected you more than you realize?)
My parents had a bad marriage, and my mother had affairs for a similar reason to this woman's. All of us involved - the parents, the other men, and us kids - would have been far better off if my parents had faced facts and gotten divorced and moved on with their lives.
posted by gudrun at 10:56 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
And you, Mr. anonymous. What is up with you? You say you work at home. You need to get out more, develop more interests and activities. You sound lonely as well and you seem to have issues about relationships that you might need to work on (maybe your parents' screwed up marriage has affected you more than you realize?)
My parents had a bad marriage, and my mother had affairs for a similar reason to this woman's. All of us involved - the parents, the other men, and us kids - would have been far better off if my parents had faced facts and gotten divorced and moved on with their lives.
posted by gudrun at 10:56 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
How do you think things would end if, in a fight with her husband, she gleefully told him that she was sleeping with you? Or, how complicated could she make your life if you wanted to end things and she didn't? (not rhetorical questions)
posted by underwater at 11:01 AM on July 4, 2008
posted by underwater at 11:01 AM on July 4, 2008
Oh, and actually, you could end up in jail, too, if they reconcile, he decides to press for a restraining order, and she goes along with it. This actually happened to someone I know, and that person ended up getting thrown in jail one night when they accidentally and completely nonconfrontationally ran into the couple in a public place. The couple pulled aside a cop and mentioned that they had a restraining order against this person, and a couple phone calls later, hello jail.
posted by limeonaire at 11:02 AM on July 4, 2008
posted by limeonaire at 11:02 AM on July 4, 2008
"Discreet" is a code word for "My husband will put a gun to your head if he finds out that I'm schtupping you."
If you're the kind of guy, like James McAvoy in Wanted, who can be cool under that kind of pressure, I guess you could go for it.
Also, anyone who comes over and liquors you up and then asks about having hot animal sex is kind of a dick, regardless of gender. If the older married guy next door did this to your hypothetical late twentysomething self, we'd all wave you off bigtime, and I think that's probably wise here too.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 11:06 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
If you're the kind of guy, like James McAvoy in Wanted, who can be cool under that kind of pressure, I guess you could go for it.
Also, anyone who comes over and liquors you up and then asks about having hot animal sex is kind of a dick, regardless of gender. If the older married guy next door did this to your hypothetical late twentysomething self, we'd all wave you off bigtime, and I think that's probably wise here too.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 11:06 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Dammit. Hypothetical late twentysomething female self. You get the idea.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 11:07 AM on July 4, 2008
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 11:07 AM on July 4, 2008
It's her decision to cheat on her husband, yeah...
I'm confused by people's ethics in this thread.
Let's say Fred goes over to Andy's house and says, "Here's a present for you. It's a TV I stole from my friend Dan." Do you think its okay for Andy to take the TV? After all, HE didn't steal it. It was Fred's decision to steal the TV.
If I was Andy, I couldn't take the TV without feeling like an accomplice. Doing so would feel like I don't give a shit about Dan or his feelings.
Do others disagree with this scenario. Or do they agree but feel like in marriages/relationships, the rules are different? If so, why?
I am not being judgmental. I might well take the TV (or have sex with Mrs. Robinson). I'm not saying I wouldn't do it. I often do things that I feel are wrong. I'm just saying I wouldn't be able to fool myself that "it was her decision."
posted by grumblebee at 11:22 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm confused by people's ethics in this thread.
Let's say Fred goes over to Andy's house and says, "Here's a present for you. It's a TV I stole from my friend Dan." Do you think its okay for Andy to take the TV? After all, HE didn't steal it. It was Fred's decision to steal the TV.
If I was Andy, I couldn't take the TV without feeling like an accomplice. Doing so would feel like I don't give a shit about Dan or his feelings.
Do others disagree with this scenario. Or do they agree but feel like in marriages/relationships, the rules are different? If so, why?
I am not being judgmental. I might well take the TV (or have sex with Mrs. Robinson). I'm not saying I wouldn't do it. I often do things that I feel are wrong. I'm just saying I wouldn't be able to fool myself that "it was her decision."
posted by grumblebee at 11:22 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Reputation and integrity are fine china, easily broken and can't be fixed. They are a lot more important than sex. You are old enough to recognize right and wrong. You have a conscience and a heart. The price you will have to pay to go down this path is too high. Go find and invest in a real relationship instead. You deserve better.
posted by curiousZ at 11:22 AM on July 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by curiousZ at 11:22 AM on July 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
So, you were both drunk when she gave you a fairly convincing line. It's easy to parse and poke holes in her motivations after the fact, but the line did kinda give you plausible deniability at the moment. And, you were drunk. So, mistakes may have been made. If you did have sex with her, was it among the best sex you've ever had? If no, then don't bother even thinking about doing it again until you get some sort of confirmation from the husband. But, what if the sex was mind blowing? Best-sex-ever vs. really bad idea. But, that's a whole different question.
posted by spork at 11:28 AM on July 4, 2008
posted by spork at 11:28 AM on July 4, 2008
Do it. Life's too short to worry about murderous, homocidal husbands.
posted by chugg at 11:33 AM on July 4, 2008
posted by chugg at 11:33 AM on July 4, 2008
I'd tread VERY carefully. The Mrs. Robinsons of the world are experts at manipulation and this one has obviously done a number on you.
Setting aside your moral hesitations, she (or her husband) could seriously fuck you up in any number of ways.
Just for the sake of self-preservation, I would steer clear. But do it VERY diplomatically, because she might seriously fuck you up for rejecting her.
posted by randomstriker at 11:41 AM on July 4, 2008
Setting aside your moral hesitations, she (or her husband) could seriously fuck you up in any number of ways.
Just for the sake of self-preservation, I would steer clear. But do it VERY diplomatically, because she might seriously fuck you up for rejecting her.
posted by randomstriker at 11:41 AM on July 4, 2008
She explains that they have settled into a kind of formal relationship with each other, meaning specifically that they pretty much live together and support one another, but all of the sexual aspects of a real relationship are lacking.
It is possible they have a relationship which is marriage without the sex; and an agreement with each other that they can sleep with anyone they want. If this is in fact a real and mutual agreement, you should have no trouble getting the husband to confirm it.
Otherwise, eh, an affair's an affair. Decide for yourself if you're into that sort of thing; I'm not personally.
posted by Mike1024 at 11:56 AM on July 4, 2008
It is possible they have a relationship which is marriage without the sex; and an agreement with each other that they can sleep with anyone they want. If this is in fact a real and mutual agreement, you should have no trouble getting the husband to confirm it.
Otherwise, eh, an affair's an affair. Decide for yourself if you're into that sort of thing; I'm not personally.
posted by Mike1024 at 11:56 AM on July 4, 2008
If you feel that marital infidelity is morally wrong, then you will be participating in committing a moral wrong. So it all depends on your view of the sanctity of the marriage vow, and has nothing to do with her view of the sanctity of the marriage vow. If she wanted you to help her commit a murder (just to choose something that I think we can all agree is morally wrong), it wouldn't make it okay for you to help her just because she thought it was okay. You have to decide for yourself what you believe, and act accordingly.
posted by HotToddy at 12:10 PM on July 4, 2008
posted by HotToddy at 12:10 PM on July 4, 2008
I do not envy you. You are in a lose/lose situation, emotionally.
If you say no, you will be tormented by thoughts of "what if"
If you "do it", you are a hooked fish.
Believe me, any woman like that can destroy you, beyond your wildest dreams.
Trust me!
posted by cvoixjames at 12:15 PM on July 4, 2008
If you say no, you will be tormented by thoughts of "what if"
If you "do it", you are a hooked fish.
Believe me, any woman like that can destroy you, beyond your wildest dreams.
Trust me!
posted by cvoixjames at 12:15 PM on July 4, 2008
"Getting him to confirm it" might actually amount to "rubbing his face in it", which might in itself amount to both a rejection from you, and an embarrassment to her. I would advise against this, and against even discussing it as an idea with her, let alone with him. Human pride is a complex thing.
There are reasonable arguments both ways on this, but in the absence of knowing anything about the specific people involved, chances are the husband is unlikely to ever find out about it, let alone try to kill you. If you don't do it, refrain because you believe it's wrong for you to do it, not out of fear of the husband; that's about as bad for you as going along with it would be, if not worse. If you do go along with it, "take her shopping" and rent a motel room, use STD control, and don't expect a repeat session. She may just want to feel like an attractive woman again, especially if her story's fully true. If she's in the habit of having affairs, she may tire of you soon enough anyhow.
If you do decide not to get involved, let her down gently, emphasise that it's marital status not age or looks that are the problem, and I'd advise you to find a girlfriend (or unattached friend with benefits who won't mind visibly spending the night); even if a girlfriend may seem inconvenient at the moment, it's likely to turn out better than this affair.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 12:19 PM on July 4, 2008
There are reasonable arguments both ways on this, but in the absence of knowing anything about the specific people involved, chances are the husband is unlikely to ever find out about it, let alone try to kill you. If you don't do it, refrain because you believe it's wrong for you to do it, not out of fear of the husband; that's about as bad for you as going along with it would be, if not worse. If you do go along with it, "take her shopping" and rent a motel room, use STD control, and don't expect a repeat session. She may just want to feel like an attractive woman again, especially if her story's fully true. If she's in the habit of having affairs, she may tire of you soon enough anyhow.
If you do decide not to get involved, let her down gently, emphasise that it's marital status not age or looks that are the problem, and I'd advise you to find a girlfriend (or unattached friend with benefits who won't mind visibly spending the night); even if a girlfriend may seem inconvenient at the moment, it's likely to turn out better than this affair.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 12:19 PM on July 4, 2008
Mrs. Robinson Filter: Is it always a bad idea?
My opinion as someone who has been on many sides of this sort of situation is that while it's not always a bad idea, it is often a bad idea for many of the reasons people have brought up
- maybe she's lying
- maybe she's insane
- maybe you'll get attached
- maybe she will get attached
- maybe her husband will kill you
- you're neighbors, this might cause awkwardness
- kids involvement
- views on marriage: yours hers, her husbands, society's
- long-term planning with this sort of stuff
- what if someone changes their mind
THAT SAID a lot of this has to do with how you feel about getting into something potentially complicated. Are you someone who can manage situations well? Do you think you'd be able to deal with the outcomes of many of the possible scenarios? Would it be worth it to you to have roll in the hay given that some of these scenarios might come to fruition? Would you only want this sort of onvolvement if you thought it could be hassle-free (I suspect it will be many things but hassle free is not one of them, a hassle that is worth it is not totally out of the question however)
Some people are just better at rolling with this sort of thing, and if you think you're one of those people and you like her and think you'd like to have fun with her, take aeschenkarnos' quite sensible advice and go for it with your eyes open. Good luck in any case. You're right that it's not simple.
posted by jessamyn at 12:28 PM on July 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
My opinion as someone who has been on many sides of this sort of situation is that while it's not always a bad idea, it is often a bad idea for many of the reasons people have brought up
- maybe she's lying
- maybe she's insane
- maybe you'll get attached
- maybe she will get attached
- maybe her husband will kill you
- you're neighbors, this might cause awkwardness
- kids involvement
- views on marriage: yours hers, her husbands, society's
- long-term planning with this sort of stuff
- what if someone changes their mind
THAT SAID a lot of this has to do with how you feel about getting into something potentially complicated. Are you someone who can manage situations well? Do you think you'd be able to deal with the outcomes of many of the possible scenarios? Would it be worth it to you to have roll in the hay given that some of these scenarios might come to fruition? Would you only want this sort of onvolvement if you thought it could be hassle-free (I suspect it will be many things but hassle free is not one of them, a hassle that is worth it is not totally out of the question however)
Some people are just better at rolling with this sort of thing, and if you think you're one of those people and you like her and think you'd like to have fun with her, take aeschenkarnos' quite sensible advice and go for it with your eyes open. Good luck in any case. You're right that it's not simple.
posted by jessamyn at 12:28 PM on July 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
If I were you, I'd insist on talking to the husband himself about this and flat-out asking if he's cool with you schtupping his wife. If he says fine, then well, it's up to you (though I do think the neighbor thing never works well for dating, period). But it'd be pretty easy for her to BS you about it if you don't have any confirmation from her on this situation.
Why doesn't she want to leave the husband? I can't help but wonder what compels her to stay in the situation she claims is happening.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:47 PM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Why doesn't she want to leave the husband? I can't help but wonder what compels her to stay in the situation she claims is happening.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:47 PM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Wheresoever thou sleep, shit not.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 12:49 PM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 12:49 PM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
She proceeds to tell me (in a strangely serene and matter-of-fact manner) that while she and her husband have no plans on leaving each other, their marriage is far from being a real relationship. She explains that they have settled into a kind of formal relationship with each other, meaning specifically that they pretty much live together and support one another, but all of the sexual aspects of a real relationship are lacking.
I'm a married guy. If I were trying to get into the pants of some cute young thing, this is exactly what I would tell her. Now, maybe it would be true, and I am really a long-suffering nice guy stuck in a sexless marriage, and hey look! you could be the one to repair my wounded soul. Or I could be a lying scumbag who tells someone that story at least once a month.
Why? That's the story that has worked on each of my friends in college who dated an older married person; it's the story that older married people I know who cheat use on prospective partners. It's a story that works -- just like "three" is a number for "how many people have you had sex with?" that works, and "he just hasn't met the right girl yet" is a fiction that works for some parents of gay kids. It's a story that preemptively responds to a whole set of potential concerns, and sets up the liaison as a positive and healing endeavor, rather than that nasty "cheating" and "betrayal" that other (bad) people take part in.
And after all that, her story may even be true -- certainly, many long-term marriages aren't all that great. Even so, my gut reaction is to say "hell no!" for all the practical reasons of complications -- what if he finds out? are you still cool with this if she is doing the same thing with four other guys this week? what if you meet a new girl but Mrs Robinson turns into a creepy stalker (I think this one has been made into several movies)? what if your friends find out? are you entirely comfortable with sex with her if you were to find out later that she'd been having sex with her husband half an hour before?
It's not the May/December thing that is the problem -- it is the schtupping a married woman who lives almost next door, which is like two or three big no-no's rolled into one. So my reaction is "no," but I had plenty of friends in college (mostly female or gay men) who did this and had it work out mostly ok. One or two picked up an STD (but that can happen anyway, though I think it is really tempting to think "old and married" = "safe" which isn't always the case); one or two got into the middle of big awful incidents when the wife found out and made threats and called the police; but mostly it was a fine interlude before going on with their lives, and I don't think they really regretted it at all.
posted by Forktine at 12:49 PM on July 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
I'm a married guy. If I were trying to get into the pants of some cute young thing, this is exactly what I would tell her. Now, maybe it would be true, and I am really a long-suffering nice guy stuck in a sexless marriage, and hey look! you could be the one to repair my wounded soul. Or I could be a lying scumbag who tells someone that story at least once a month.
Why? That's the story that has worked on each of my friends in college who dated an older married person; it's the story that older married people I know who cheat use on prospective partners. It's a story that works -- just like "three" is a number for "how many people have you had sex with?" that works, and "he just hasn't met the right girl yet" is a fiction that works for some parents of gay kids. It's a story that preemptively responds to a whole set of potential concerns, and sets up the liaison as a positive and healing endeavor, rather than that nasty "cheating" and "betrayal" that other (bad) people take part in.
And after all that, her story may even be true -- certainly, many long-term marriages aren't all that great. Even so, my gut reaction is to say "hell no!" for all the practical reasons of complications -- what if he finds out? are you still cool with this if she is doing the same thing with four other guys this week? what if you meet a new girl but Mrs Robinson turns into a creepy stalker (I think this one has been made into several movies)? what if your friends find out? are you entirely comfortable with sex with her if you were to find out later that she'd been having sex with her husband half an hour before?
It's not the May/December thing that is the problem -- it is the schtupping a married woman who lives almost next door, which is like two or three big no-no's rolled into one. So my reaction is "no," but I had plenty of friends in college (mostly female or gay men) who did this and had it work out mostly ok. One or two picked up an STD (but that can happen anyway, though I think it is really tempting to think "old and married" = "safe" which isn't always the case); one or two got into the middle of big awful incidents when the wife found out and made threats and called the police; but mostly it was a fine interlude before going on with their lives, and I don't think they really regretted it at all.
posted by Forktine at 12:49 PM on July 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
doesn't really have a lot of friends she gets along well with.
On the basis of this, and that she lives downstairs, I'd avoid her, let alone have sex. Now I"m not opposed to introverts, but what person says this on the first meeting to someone? IAlso, don't shit in your own nest. If you're going to schtupp Mrs Robinson, make sure she lives somewhere else.
posted by b33j at 1:01 PM on July 4, 2008
On the basis of this, and that she lives downstairs, I'd avoid her, let alone have sex. Now I"m not opposed to introverts, but what person says this on the first meeting to someone? IAlso, don't shit in your own nest. If you're going to schtupp Mrs Robinson, make sure she lives somewhere else.
posted by b33j at 1:01 PM on July 4, 2008
Mod note: a few comments removed - please concentrate on helping answer the OPs question, not calling each other names, thanks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:39 PM on July 4, 2008
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:39 PM on July 4, 2008
For instance my own parents were married for six years after they had agreed to see other people.
I'm a little surprised nobody has commented on this yet. This may be more important than you think. The fact that your parents had an open relationship and then got divorced (I assume) is not necessarily an endorsement of this kind of behavior. You might want to think about how this has affected your view of relationships and whether you have an attraction to this kind of drama as a result. Not that you're tragically damaged or something. It's just that people tend to re-enact their parents mistakes, and it's good to be aware of that tendency and try to avoid it.
posted by dosterm at 1:55 PM on July 4, 2008
I'm a little surprised nobody has commented on this yet. This may be more important than you think. The fact that your parents had an open relationship and then got divorced (I assume) is not necessarily an endorsement of this kind of behavior. You might want to think about how this has affected your view of relationships and whether you have an attraction to this kind of drama as a result. Not that you're tragically damaged or something. It's just that people tend to re-enact their parents mistakes, and it's good to be aware of that tendency and try to avoid it.
posted by dosterm at 1:55 PM on July 4, 2008
"Getting him to confirm it" might actually amount to "rubbing his face in it", which might in itself amount to both a rejection from you, and an embarrassment to her. I would advise against this, and against even discussing it as an idea with her, let alone with him. Human pride is a complex thing.
Obviously you'd want to ask her if you can ask him first. And then if she tells you that he's ok with it but doesn't want his face rubbed in it, she's probably lying, so run.
posted by squidlarkin at 1:56 PM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Obviously you'd want to ask her if you can ask him first. And then if she tells you that he's ok with it but doesn't want his face rubbed in it, she's probably lying, so run.
posted by squidlarkin at 1:56 PM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Hmmm, as someone who has also been on many sides of this kind of polyhedron (shit happens. One can have what one thinks is an unwavering moral code that suddenly wavers in the right circumstances. Be careful when you say I would Never, Ever. Infidelity is far from uncommon. Not everyone is strong. Not everyone is perfect.) my guess is it's too late and you're there. You like her. It's sexy. Y'all are drinking wine together and kissing. You'll be in bed soon, if you're not already. When the train has left the station, you got to ride. Oh, and as an older woman, I wholeheartedly applaud the age difference and I'm here to tell you that that is way way by far the least of your problems.
Therefore, assuming you're going for it, as damage control, I would suggest not getting attached to this apartment for all the reasons everyone has already eloquently put to you, above. In fact, maybe start looking for a new place, like, now. It is very likely that her husband would not feel at all happy about her sleeping around and the story she gave you about how he's all on board (did she say it was don't ask, don't tell? Yeah.) is probably a crock. You don't want to be living next door when the storm breaks, if it does. And no, it doesn't always break and the spouse doesn't always find out. However, the proximity scares me. You may need a bolthole in a hurry for any number of reasons and if you're living there, you don't have one.
Could this end badly? Very likely. Could it end well? Much less likely. These things are much easier to get into than they are to get out of. They're a roller coaster and the sex is always incredible. But salvia is speaking very wisely and truthfully about the drawbacks of an affair and you need to think carefully about that. Because what you're getting here is a girlfriend, but not a girlfriend with whom you can do any of the normal girlfriend things. That gets really old.
Oh, and move. That's priority number one.
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:59 PM on July 4, 2008
Therefore, assuming you're going for it, as damage control, I would suggest not getting attached to this apartment for all the reasons everyone has already eloquently put to you, above. In fact, maybe start looking for a new place, like, now. It is very likely that her husband would not feel at all happy about her sleeping around and the story she gave you about how he's all on board (did she say it was don't ask, don't tell? Yeah.) is probably a crock. You don't want to be living next door when the storm breaks, if it does. And no, it doesn't always break and the spouse doesn't always find out. However, the proximity scares me. You may need a bolthole in a hurry for any number of reasons and if you're living there, you don't have one.
Could this end badly? Very likely. Could it end well? Much less likely. These things are much easier to get into than they are to get out of. They're a roller coaster and the sex is always incredible. But salvia is speaking very wisely and truthfully about the drawbacks of an affair and you need to think carefully about that. Because what you're getting here is a girlfriend, but not a girlfriend with whom you can do any of the normal girlfriend things. That gets really old.
Oh, and move. That's priority number one.
posted by mygothlaundry at 1:59 PM on July 4, 2008
Such a situation can work. If you and she can sit down with her husband and have a polite and mannered discussion about your banging her - and he gives his consent without anger or conditions you find unworkable (for example: he gets to watch) then you have a shot at a pleasant affair. Otherwise what you're doing carries a fair amount of risk, well sorted above.
posted by jet_silver at 2:24 PM on July 4, 2008
posted by jet_silver at 2:24 PM on July 4, 2008
I think it's important that whatever you choose to do, you act with integrity. When you mention this being "discrete," isn't that an another way of saying that her husband would not know she is having sex with other guys, or having sex with you? If so, bad idea. He, too, is your neighbor, and you'll likely have to deal with him sooner or later. He certainly deserves as much consideration and respect in this situation as anyone else.
On the other hand, if they did, in fact, have an open relationship, then the situation would be different. I doubt this is the case, since you also say she claims she has not had "sexual release" in over ten years!
posted by Robert Angelo at 2:27 PM on July 4, 2008
On the other hand, if they did, in fact, have an open relationship, then the situation would be different. I doubt this is the case, since you also say she claims she has not had "sexual release" in over ten years!
posted by Robert Angelo at 2:27 PM on July 4, 2008
salvia has given really good advice. You'd do well to read that.
posted by the_ancient_mariner at 2:47 PM on July 4, 2008
posted by the_ancient_mariner at 2:47 PM on July 4, 2008
Wow. I'm floored by the amount and variety of responses this post has elicited.
Let me start by stating that I have not yet agreed to her proposal.
Many people have questioned my view on relationships in relation to my parents. Let me say this, I am a very hopeful and optimistic person. I believe that love exists in this world and I believe that marriage is still a very valid and spiritual way of sanctifying this love. I think many people my age have grown cynical about the idea of marriage because we have grown up amidst high divorce rates and a certain cultural dichotomy that in one turn holds marriage as a sacred tradition of love and in the same breath denies this privilege to those who are gay. Not to mention the fact that in this day and age it is not uncommon for people to stay married for a matter of days or months rather than years. My parents made their own decisions just as I will make mine. I have had many fulfilling relationships in my short life, and If I meet the right girl I plan on loving her with all of my heart.
It surprises me the number of people who have condemned this affair on the basis of marriage alone, aside from all the grey areas regarding the actual relationship that this term symbolizes.
I mentioned that my parents were separated before they were officially divorced for one reason: it illustrates that marriage is a legal and spiritual term applied to a relationship between two people, but does not always reflect the reality of that relationship down the line. One does not have to look far to see that in many circumstances marriage exists in nothing more than name alone. I'm referring to couples who are living in quiet resentment of each other, couples who are actively practicing adultery, couples who share a home and a bank account but have given up on passion and romance long ago.
Now I would never be so presumptuous as to tell someone that if they are unhappy in their marriage they should absolve it. It is simply not my place to say such a thing. In my case, it is evident to me that this woman feels her husband wants to bother little with pursuing her romantically at this stage. I do believe that she is sincere in saying these things. As I stated in the beginning of my post, we have mutual friends. The girl who introduced me to her is a very close friend of mine and has since confirmed her feelings (In case anyone wonders, I did not tell my friend she had made sexual advances toward me).
At any rate, this seems like a case of a woman who is generally happy with her life with the exception of her sexual needs.
Thank you for all the responses.
posted by ISeemToBeAVerb at 3:38 PM on July 4, 2008
Let me start by stating that I have not yet agreed to her proposal.
Many people have questioned my view on relationships in relation to my parents. Let me say this, I am a very hopeful and optimistic person. I believe that love exists in this world and I believe that marriage is still a very valid and spiritual way of sanctifying this love. I think many people my age have grown cynical about the idea of marriage because we have grown up amidst high divorce rates and a certain cultural dichotomy that in one turn holds marriage as a sacred tradition of love and in the same breath denies this privilege to those who are gay. Not to mention the fact that in this day and age it is not uncommon for people to stay married for a matter of days or months rather than years. My parents made their own decisions just as I will make mine. I have had many fulfilling relationships in my short life, and If I meet the right girl I plan on loving her with all of my heart.
It surprises me the number of people who have condemned this affair on the basis of marriage alone, aside from all the grey areas regarding the actual relationship that this term symbolizes.
I mentioned that my parents were separated before they were officially divorced for one reason: it illustrates that marriage is a legal and spiritual term applied to a relationship between two people, but does not always reflect the reality of that relationship down the line. One does not have to look far to see that in many circumstances marriage exists in nothing more than name alone. I'm referring to couples who are living in quiet resentment of each other, couples who are actively practicing adultery, couples who share a home and a bank account but have given up on passion and romance long ago.
Now I would never be so presumptuous as to tell someone that if they are unhappy in their marriage they should absolve it. It is simply not my place to say such a thing. In my case, it is evident to me that this woman feels her husband wants to bother little with pursuing her romantically at this stage. I do believe that she is sincere in saying these things. As I stated in the beginning of my post, we have mutual friends. The girl who introduced me to her is a very close friend of mine and has since confirmed her feelings (In case anyone wonders, I did not tell my friend she had made sexual advances toward me).
At any rate, this seems like a case of a woman who is generally happy with her life with the exception of her sexual needs.
Thank you for all the responses.
posted by ISeemToBeAVerb at 3:38 PM on July 4, 2008
Ha! Guess my cover is blown. No biggie, just a formality anyhow. Thanks folks.
posted by ISeemToBeAVerb at 3:41 PM on July 4, 2008
posted by ISeemToBeAVerb at 3:41 PM on July 4, 2008
So you basically already knew what you were going to do and just wasted our time.
At any rate, this seems like a case of a woman who is generally happy with her life with the exception of her sexual needs.
Or she is a complete liar. It seems strange that if you really do believe the bullshit you just spouted out (and you really don't or else you would never have posted this to ask.me anonymously) that you would be able to take her word at face value. You want to get laid. You want a relationship. You want sex. But you are too dense and too full of yourself to admit that. All of us who think this is a bad idea were trying to get you to think, for just a moment, beyond what's in your pants and beyond yourself. The thing is, you don't want to. And your over the top faux intellectual screen won't cover your mere base motives which is that she is around and she made herself available to you and you want to take it.
And like I said earlier - it's your funeral. Enjoy it while you can.
posted by Stynxno at 3:52 PM on July 4, 2008
At any rate, this seems like a case of a woman who is generally happy with her life with the exception of her sexual needs.
Or she is a complete liar. It seems strange that if you really do believe the bullshit you just spouted out (and you really don't or else you would never have posted this to ask.me anonymously) that you would be able to take her word at face value. You want to get laid. You want a relationship. You want sex. But you are too dense and too full of yourself to admit that. All of us who think this is a bad idea were trying to get you to think, for just a moment, beyond what's in your pants and beyond yourself. The thing is, you don't want to. And your over the top faux intellectual screen won't cover your mere base motives which is that she is around and she made herself available to you and you want to take it.
And like I said earlier - it's your funeral. Enjoy it while you can.
posted by Stynxno at 3:52 PM on July 4, 2008
And like I said earlier - it's your funeral. Enjoy it while you can.
Thing is, it could quite literally be so. Newspapers are littered with "...the body was discovered this morning, after the husband found his wife in bed with another man."
You're playing with fire here, Verb. Or, more accurately, you're juggling fire while standing in a huge pool of gasoline.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:58 PM on July 4, 2008
Thing is, it could quite literally be so. Newspapers are littered with "...the body was discovered this morning, after the husband found his wife in bed with another man."
You're playing with fire here, Verb. Or, more accurately, you're juggling fire while standing in a huge pool of gasoline.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:58 PM on July 4, 2008
Stynxno,
I have not, contrary to what you say, made up my mind. Why would I spend my free time posting this if I just wanted to jump into sex? Wouldn't I just have taken her into my bedroom right then and there? Personally, I think you're making a lot of assumptions about me that have no validation had you actually read what I wrote. I am not trying to shroud this in an intellectual smoke screen, I simply think that the varying opinions on relationships and marriage are interesting in and of themselves. Obviously the base motive is sex. That IS what this whole post essentially boils down to- my choice to have sex with this woman or not.
posted by ISeemToBeAVerb at 4:17 PM on July 4, 2008
I have not, contrary to what you say, made up my mind. Why would I spend my free time posting this if I just wanted to jump into sex? Wouldn't I just have taken her into my bedroom right then and there? Personally, I think you're making a lot of assumptions about me that have no validation had you actually read what I wrote. I am not trying to shroud this in an intellectual smoke screen, I simply think that the varying opinions on relationships and marriage are interesting in and of themselves. Obviously the base motive is sex. That IS what this whole post essentially boils down to- my choice to have sex with this woman or not.
posted by ISeemToBeAVerb at 4:17 PM on July 4, 2008
Ha! Guess my cover is blown.
Especially since you have disclosed your full name, location and profession in your profile. Better remove it quick or you could be in for a world of hurt.
I'm constantly surprised how many people around me read MeFi / AskMeFi. In fact a co-worker once referred me to an AskMeFi post, with him not realizing that I had made the post because he was no help when I asked him the same question earlier. Luckily it was a pretty innocuous question.
posted by randomstriker at 4:31 PM on July 4, 2008
Especially since you have disclosed your full name, location and profession in your profile. Better remove it quick or you could be in for a world of hurt.
I'm constantly surprised how many people around me read MeFi / AskMeFi. In fact a co-worker once referred me to an AskMeFi post, with him not realizing that I had made the post because he was no help when I asked him the same question earlier. Luckily it was a pretty innocuous question.
posted by randomstriker at 4:31 PM on July 4, 2008
She lives in the same building as you do. If she lived in another neighborhood, you might be able to have an affair with her and not have a big awkward mess after it ended. If anyone's going to move out because of awkwardness, it's going to be you. Even if she IS telling the truth about her marriage; even if her husband told you himself that they've agreed to see other people -- it would be a bad idea.
By the way -- even if she says okay, we'll just be friends, she'll keep getting you liquored up in hopes that you'll weaken.
posted by wryly at 4:36 PM on July 4, 2008
By the way -- even if she says okay, we'll just be friends, she'll keep getting you liquored up in hopes that you'll weaken.
posted by wryly at 4:36 PM on July 4, 2008
Randomstriker,
I have taken certain liberties to prevent this, I appreciate your concern though. Thanks.
posted by ISeemToBeAVerb at 4:38 PM on July 4, 2008
I have taken certain liberties to prevent this, I appreciate your concern though. Thanks.
posted by ISeemToBeAVerb at 4:38 PM on July 4, 2008
I'm a little surprised nobody has commented on this yet. This may be more important than you think. The fact that your parents had an open relationship and then got divorced (I assume) is not necessarily an endorsement of this kind of behavior.
Nor does it bode ill, considering how many marriages never reach the six year mark at all. It's just one set of circumstances. In this case, the poster knows next to nothing about the circumstances of Mrs. Robinson's marriage except what she told him in her monologue.
Tell her you're attracted to her but you don't want to rush in, and that you'd like to hear more about her marriage. Take as long as you need to make up your mind. If she gets frustrated or impatient, then she's not as interested in you as a person as either of you thought.
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 5:12 PM on July 4, 2008
Nor does it bode ill, considering how many marriages never reach the six year mark at all. It's just one set of circumstances. In this case, the poster knows next to nothing about the circumstances of Mrs. Robinson's marriage except what she told him in her monologue.
Tell her you're attracted to her but you don't want to rush in, and that you'd like to hear more about her marriage. Take as long as you need to make up your mind. If she gets frustrated or impatient, then she's not as interested in you as a person as either of you thought.
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 5:12 PM on July 4, 2008
Go for it.
posted by strangelove at 5:48 PM on July 4, 2008
posted by strangelove at 5:48 PM on July 4, 2008
An admin should probably amend this thread, even if the OP is okay with accidental disclosure.
We'd all regret it if something bad happened.
posted by rokusan at 5:57 PM on July 4, 2008
We'd all regret it if something bad happened.
posted by rokusan at 5:57 PM on July 4, 2008
She proceeds to tell me (in a strangely serene and matter-of-fact manner) that while she and her husband have no plans on leaving each other, their marriage is far from being a real relationship. She explains that they have settled into a kind of formal relationship with each other, meaning specifically that they pretty much live together and support one another, but all of the sexual aspects of a real relationship are lacking.
The only time I've known someone who represented their marriage this way, she was very convincing, and very much full of shit. Which is not to say, of course, that your neighbour is full of shit; people certainly reach such arrangements. But in your place I'd probably want to be quite sure that I wasn't going to find out the hard way that she was lying.
Also consider the fact that if she's in the same building as you and it turns sour, you could be looking at an awfully uncomfortable situation. What if she has a bunch of other young men on the side trundling through the door? What if she is full of shit and you're stuck in the building with that drama? What if she turns out to attach to you, big time? You can't exactly lock her out of the building...
posted by rodgerd at 6:01 PM on July 4, 2008
The only time I've known someone who represented their marriage this way, she was very convincing, and very much full of shit. Which is not to say, of course, that your neighbour is full of shit; people certainly reach such arrangements. But in your place I'd probably want to be quite sure that I wasn't going to find out the hard way that she was lying.
Also consider the fact that if she's in the same building as you and it turns sour, you could be looking at an awfully uncomfortable situation. What if she has a bunch of other young men on the side trundling through the door? What if she is full of shit and you're stuck in the building with that drama? What if she turns out to attach to you, big time? You can't exactly lock her out of the building...
posted by rodgerd at 6:01 PM on July 4, 2008
Mod note: comment removed - want to call the OP names, do it over email/metatalk
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:11 PM on July 4, 2008
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:11 PM on July 4, 2008
Here are a few from the archives:
Should I wait for a married guy?
Am I naive to think I'm the only one for Demi?
posted by salvia at 6:48 PM on July 4, 2008
Should I wait for a married guy?
Am I naive to think I'm the only one for Demi?
posted by salvia at 6:48 PM on July 4, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 9:48 AM on July 4, 2008 [1 favorite]