Order of the Culture novels?
May 20, 2008 10:50 AM
Is there a best order to read the Culture novels by Iain M Banks?
The Culture novels have sounded intriguing to me for a while now, so I was hoping to get into them sometime in the near future, but I live in the US and they're hard to find outside Amazon, except for the newest one. Do they need to be read in the order they were written? Is there some other order they would work better in? Or can you read them in pretty much whatever order you want?
The Culture novels have sounded intriguing to me for a while now, so I was hoping to get into them sometime in the near future, but I live in the US and they're hard to find outside Amazon, except for the newest one. Do they need to be read in the order they were written? Is there some other order they would work better in? Or can you read them in pretty much whatever order you want?
I haven't read them all, but the ones I have read have been in random order. I've had no problems.
posted by iwhitney at 11:12 AM on May 20, 2008
posted by iwhitney at 11:12 AM on May 20, 2008
I read them as they came out and didn't notice any discontinuity. It was fun to see previous ideas or allusions get fleshed out as the next books arrived.
For those who don't know, these are the BEST BOOKS EVER! Every time Iain Banks releases another non-culture novel, I die a little inside. Even though they're good, too.
posted by Aquaman at 11:14 AM on May 20, 2008
For those who don't know, these are the BEST BOOKS EVER! Every time Iain Banks releases another non-culture novel, I die a little inside. Even though they're good, too.
posted by Aquaman at 11:14 AM on May 20, 2008
I feel like I would have gotten the most out of them if I'd read them in the order in which they were published.
Results may vary. Consult your medical drone.
posted by infinitewindow at 11:20 AM on May 20, 2008
Results may vary. Consult your medical drone.
posted by infinitewindow at 11:20 AM on May 20, 2008
In a thread here a few months back, someone told me you had to read Consider Phlebas first because there's a wonderful moment partway through the book when you finally Get It.
Then again, he was responding to the fact that I'd started with Consider Phlebas and Hadn't Gotten It at all. One's mileage, apparently, varies.
Anyway, if you read them in order, you'll either be treated to a wonderful feeling of dawning realization or be confused, disillusioned and pissed off by the end of the first book. My take is that if you need a book to grab you right away, you should start with another book in the series, but if you're willing to have some patience, you should go ahead and start with the first.
posted by nebulawindphone at 11:22 AM on May 20, 2008
Then again, he was responding to the fact that I'd started with Consider Phlebas and Hadn't Gotten It at all. One's mileage, apparently, varies.
Anyway, if you read them in order, you'll either be treated to a wonderful feeling of dawning realization or be confused, disillusioned and pissed off by the end of the first book. My take is that if you need a book to grab you right away, you should start with another book in the series, but if you're willing to have some patience, you should go ahead and start with the first.
posted by nebulawindphone at 11:22 AM on May 20, 2008
FYI 'Look to Windward' is a semi-sequel to the first novel, so you might want to read that one later.
I thought the earlier novels were more depressing, but better written, and there's a degree of recycling of themes that takes place. I would read them in order written to get the most out of the experience.
posted by selfnoise at 11:32 AM on May 20, 2008
I thought the earlier novels were more depressing, but better written, and there's a degree of recycling of themes that takes place. I would read them in order written to get the most out of the experience.
posted by selfnoise at 11:32 AM on May 20, 2008
More or less any order should be okay, except that, yes, Look to Windward follows Consider Phlebas.
I'd recommend starting with The Player of Games, honestly; I think it's the most accessible of the bunch.
I think the touted reason to read CP first doesn't really matter -- the fact that there's a whole bunch of books, and that they're called the Culture books, is a pretty strong hint that gur Phygher ner gur tbbq thlf.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:45 AM on May 20, 2008
I'd recommend starting with The Player of Games, honestly; I think it's the most accessible of the bunch.
I think the touted reason to read CP first doesn't really matter -- the fact that there's a whole bunch of books, and that they're called the Culture books, is a pretty strong hint that gur Phygher ner gur tbbq thlf.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:45 AM on May 20, 2008
Read at least one of them before Inversions, read Consider Phlebas before Look to Windward and other than that just take them in any order. Some people suggest starting with Consider Phlebas, but IMHO it's got some draggy bits before the awesome becomes aparrent, and Player of Games or Use of Weapons would be a better start.
posted by Artw at 11:49 AM on May 20, 2008
posted by Artw at 11:49 AM on May 20, 2008
Some of the links and comments in the big Iain Banks post I did might be helpful, if you've not seen it before.
posted by Artw at 11:54 AM on May 20, 2008
posted by Artw at 11:54 AM on May 20, 2008
My touted reason for reading Consider Phlebas first is that it gives you a perspective on the Culture which you do not get from any of the other books, and that cannot be obtained after you have read any of the others and had your first view of the Culture from their perspective. Because of the viewpoint it approaches the Culture from, it gives you a broader and deeper understanding of the Culture when you start to learn more about it from the viewpoints of the later books. Also, CP is a load of fun, full of big space operatic drama and snark and well-realized worlds and Cool Stuff, and it's quite accessible compared to some of the others.
posted by biscotti at 11:56 AM on May 20, 2008
posted by biscotti at 11:56 AM on May 20, 2008
I also recommend Consider Phelbas as a start. I loved Excession and think you could start there as well.
posted by Argyle at 12:16 PM on May 20, 2008
posted by Argyle at 12:16 PM on May 20, 2008
I just recently embarked upon the Banksian quest, and I started with Player of Games, which hooked me right the fuck in.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:19 PM on May 20, 2008
posted by Rock Steady at 12:19 PM on May 20, 2008
biscotti nails it. The correct order is publication order. Period. That means starting with Consider Phlebas.
You can certainly read and enjoy them in a different order, but you'll never get that little frisson when you come to certain realizations during Consider Phlebas. Of course, the very fact that you know these are the "Culture Novels" means that you'll never get that feeling anyway, which is kind of sad.
The best way to come to these books is through Consider Phlebas without any knowledge of what the books are about. I guess that ship has sailed for most people, which is quite sad. It robs CP of much of its power.
...
What I consider much of the power of CP is .... and HERE THERE BE SPOILERS ... the slow realization that Bora Horza Gorbuchul is fighting on the wrong, and ultimately doomed, side. Knowing that these are "Culture Novels" kind of ruins that, since you know going in that he's fighting against the Culture.
Too bad. It's a much better book without that knowledge.
posted by Justinian at 12:53 PM on May 20, 2008
You can certainly read and enjoy them in a different order, but you'll never get that little frisson when you come to certain realizations during Consider Phlebas. Of course, the very fact that you know these are the "Culture Novels" means that you'll never get that feeling anyway, which is kind of sad.
The best way to come to these books is through Consider Phlebas without any knowledge of what the books are about. I guess that ship has sailed for most people, which is quite sad. It robs CP of much of its power.
...
What I consider much of the power of CP is .... and HERE THERE BE SPOILERS ... the slow realization that Bora Horza Gorbuchul is fighting on the wrong, and ultimately doomed, side. Knowing that these are "Culture Novels" kind of ruins that, since you know going in that he's fighting against the Culture.
Too bad. It's a much better book without that knowledge.
posted by Justinian at 12:53 PM on May 20, 2008
My main recommendation is not to read Inversions first. It's excellent, but the whole back story of the main characters is infinitely more interesting if you have a sense of the Culture and its context. It's very, very low-key about the fact that it's a Culture book.
posted by redfoxtail at 1:20 PM on May 20, 2008
posted by redfoxtail at 1:20 PM on May 20, 2008
I don't think you have to read them in order in order to "get it". There's all sorts of things to "get" in Banks' books anyway. Some things didn't entirely click for me until I read the books a second time, and that's one thing that I particularly like about the Culture books. I do agree that you should not start with Inversions. FWIW, the book that really made the Culture books come alive for me was Excession. At any rate, Artw's advice is spot on.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:39 PM on May 20, 2008
posted by oneirodynia at 1:39 PM on May 20, 2008
I read Excession first, which is not at all accessible, and I loved it. Just read them in whatever order you can get them in your grubby little hands.
posted by happyturtle at 2:00 PM on May 20, 2008
posted by happyturtle at 2:00 PM on May 20, 2008
You can read them in any order, but there's a definite building of knowledge and insights into the world of the Culture that you get from reading them in rough order, which I'd imagine is a side-effect of Banks, well, making it up as he went along and building on what he'd written before. Top books though.
Can I recommend A Few Notes on the Culture, by the man himself?
posted by Happy Dave at 2:35 PM on May 20, 2008
Can I recommend A Few Notes on the Culture, by the man himself?
posted by Happy Dave at 2:35 PM on May 20, 2008
If you want to go into them starting with a good overview, and sense of what the Culture is all about, you could try the short story "State of the Art".
Culture visits Earth - a lot of exposition regarding the philosophy / sociology / economy of the Culture is there.
posted by Meatbomb at 3:00 PM on May 20, 2008
Culture visits Earth - a lot of exposition regarding the philosophy / sociology / economy of the Culture is there.
posted by Meatbomb at 3:00 PM on May 20, 2008
I'd recommend starting with The Player of Games (the second published). If you like it, go back to Consider Phlebas (the first), then go in order.
However, order isn't that important: if it's easier to borrow them out of order then do that. They do follow a rough chronology, but the storylines don't continue. He kind of explores different ideas as he goes along though.
Consider Phlebas is a bit clunky and rough round the edges, so I don't think it's necessarily the best one to start with.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 3:01 PM on May 20, 2008
However, order isn't that important: if it's easier to borrow them out of order then do that. They do follow a rough chronology, but the storylines don't continue. He kind of explores different ideas as he goes along though.
Consider Phlebas is a bit clunky and rough round the edges, so I don't think it's necessarily the best one to start with.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 3:01 PM on May 20, 2008
yea for the Culture and Iain M. Banks!
i've read them all. i first read Use of Weapons on a beach in Thailand and was immediately hooked.
Consider Phlebas is a good one, but it's a rough start and I'm not sure starting with it will make any difference to your understanding. in fact, reading it LATER may make it more potent as you have a framework for the realizations it contains.
actually, his latest book, Matter, is an excellent place to start. not only is it one of his best IMHO, but it does a great job of introducing the Culture and its place with the Universe.
i only wish i could read them all again for the first time!
posted by xz at 7:08 PM on May 20, 2008
i've read them all. i first read Use of Weapons on a beach in Thailand and was immediately hooked.
Consider Phlebas is a good one, but it's a rough start and I'm not sure starting with it will make any difference to your understanding. in fact, reading it LATER may make it more potent as you have a framework for the realizations it contains.
actually, his latest book, Matter, is an excellent place to start. not only is it one of his best IMHO, but it does a great job of introducing the Culture and its place with the Universe.
i only wish i could read them all again for the first time!
posted by xz at 7:08 PM on May 20, 2008
damn you xz, I'd been planning on holding out on Matter until it came in something other than uber-expensive large-print.
posted by polyglot at 11:41 PM on May 20, 2008
posted by polyglot at 11:41 PM on May 20, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by jbickers at 11:05 AM on May 20, 2008