How to contact my estranged father for documents required for Irish Citizenshp?
May 15, 2008 1:37 PM
I recently learned I am eligible for Irish citizenship because my grandparents were born in Ireland. I need to obviously prove my relation to them, which is where things get sticky. I am related to them by way of my somewhat estranged father.
I need a long form birth certificate for him and other forms of ID (such as a drivers license).. I haven't seen him for almost 11 years or spoken to him for more than 7 years. He doesn't pay child support, so it is garnished from his wages. We know where he works and lives, though. I'm still trying to figure out what I should do. I'd really like to be an Irish citizen because of the benefits of being a EU citizen. I just don't even know how to contact him and ask for what I need. He made the divorce hell for my mom.
I have a throwaway gmail acct here: divorcecitizenship@gmail.com
I need a long form birth certificate for him and other forms of ID (such as a drivers license).. I haven't seen him for almost 11 years or spoken to him for more than 7 years. He doesn't pay child support, so it is garnished from his wages. We know where he works and lives, though. I'm still trying to figure out what I should do. I'd really like to be an Irish citizen because of the benefits of being a EU citizen. I just don't even know how to contact him and ask for what I need. He made the divorce hell for my mom.
I have a throwaway gmail acct here: divorcecitizenship@gmail.com
AFAIK, in the U.S., birth certificates are public records and any member of the public can simply request it from the county of birth.
If you need something else from him, the most businesslike and least confrontational way to go about it might be to have your mom's divorce lawyer contact his divorce lawyer. Presumably the divorce documents provide that he will cooperate and provide and needed paperwork concerning yourself.
posted by JimN2TAW at 2:14 PM on May 15, 2008
If you need something else from him, the most businesslike and least confrontational way to go about it might be to have your mom's divorce lawyer contact his divorce lawyer. Presumably the divorce documents provide that he will cooperate and provide and needed paperwork concerning yourself.
posted by JimN2TAW at 2:14 PM on May 15, 2008
No, it really depends on which state he was born in. In New York, for example, only the person named on the certificate or their parents can get a birth certificate without a court order. In many, if not most, places, you have to have some kind of relationship to the person named on the certificate.
It would be helpful if we knew which state he was born in and which state he lives in now, as that materially affects the availability of these records to you if you don't want to ask him directly.
posted by katemonster at 2:31 PM on May 15, 2008
It would be helpful if we knew which state he was born in and which state he lives in now, as that materially affects the availability of these records to you if you don't want to ask him directly.
posted by katemonster at 2:31 PM on May 15, 2008
Why do you think you need a driver's license? You don't.
For your grandparents, you need to provide birth, death and marriage certificates. For your dad, you need birth and marriage certificates. The DFA website is mis-leading; the parental ID requirement is only if you are claiming citizenship through a parent. You are not; you are claiming through a grandparent. It is also outdated because it doesn't mention the register of foreign births, which you need to get on to make this happen. Be warned: that bit apparently takes approximately forever.
Your best bet is to pop down to your local Irish consulate, and they'll sort you out. It sounds confusing but once you understand all the steps clearly, you just move from A to B to C and you get there in the end.
I do think it is a good idea, as an EU passport is very useful indeed, and Ireland's wide-embracing diaspora citizenship requirements are by far the most lax in Europe. This may change, however, so if you want to do it, you're right to do it now.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:32 PM on May 15, 2008
For your grandparents, you need to provide birth, death and marriage certificates. For your dad, you need birth and marriage certificates. The DFA website is mis-leading; the parental ID requirement is only if you are claiming citizenship through a parent. You are not; you are claiming through a grandparent. It is also outdated because it doesn't mention the register of foreign births, which you need to get on to make this happen. Be warned: that bit apparently takes approximately forever.
Your best bet is to pop down to your local Irish consulate, and they'll sort you out. It sounds confusing but once you understand all the steps clearly, you just move from A to B to C and you get there in the end.
I do think it is a good idea, as an EU passport is very useful indeed, and Ireland's wide-embracing diaspora citizenship requirements are by far the most lax in Europe. This may change, however, so if you want to do it, you're right to do it now.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:32 PM on May 15, 2008
On a related note, I want to say that the Irish rules of citizenship have changed lately. If you're not living inside .ie for a few years, you may have to send their department of state a letter every year or so saying "yes, I still want to be a citizen".
(I was moving US -> Galway this last year, so I researched such things, but my recollection is notoriously faulty.)
posted by cmiller at 2:35 PM on May 15, 2008
(I was moving US -> Galway this last year, so I researched such things, but my recollection is notoriously faulty.)
posted by cmiller at 2:35 PM on May 15, 2008
It must depend on the state, because in Illinois you can only get your own birth certificate. I was trying the same thing and was told I couldn't get my dad's birth certificate, even though he is dead. I was told my mom would have to request it. After a certain number of years (50 maybe , I don't know) you can request a dead person's birth certificate.
Marriage records, however, can be requested by anyone. Look up your state's (or county's) clerk's office online and see what the requirements are. You might have to contact your father to get it.
posted by Bunglegirl at 3:13 PM on May 15, 2008
Marriage records, however, can be requested by anyone. Look up your state's (or county's) clerk's office online and see what the requirements are. You might have to contact your father to get it.
posted by Bunglegirl at 3:13 PM on May 15, 2008
I've also been researching irish citizenship through descent and every website says that you need the parent's drivers license, birth certificate and more, and then the stuff for the grandparents.. I'm probably going to end up calling my local consulate and see what they say..
posted by majikstreet at 3:59 PM on May 15, 2008
posted by majikstreet at 3:59 PM on May 15, 2008
If your father had been born in Ireland of Irish parents, you'd *be* an Irish citizen already, whether you'd ever applied for a passport or not.
Since he's not (and is not an Irish citizen), your claim is that you have grandparents who are. While you need to show a paper trail through your father to you, which would require a long-form birth certificate (one naming the parents) for both him and you, the still-more onerous paperwork would be your grandparents'.
That matrix on the Citizen's Info site (run by the Irish government) actually just omits your particular situation entirely; whoever wrote the page didn't seem to consider the possibility that you'd have an estranged parent. Fret not - there are guidelines and the embassy in DC will be plenty helpful.
posted by genghis at 8:30 PM on May 15, 2008
Since he's not (and is not an Irish citizen), your claim is that you have grandparents who are. While you need to show a paper trail through your father to you, which would require a long-form birth certificate (one naming the parents) for both him and you, the still-more onerous paperwork would be your grandparents'.
That matrix on the Citizen's Info site (run by the Irish government) actually just omits your particular situation entirely; whoever wrote the page didn't seem to consider the possibility that you'd have an estranged parent. Fret not - there are guidelines and the embassy in DC will be plenty helpful.
posted by genghis at 8:30 PM on May 15, 2008
not that anyone is going to read this, other than maybe the anonymous poster, but I called my embassy and they wouldn't let me ask anything until they sent me the forms.. They said that the forms would explain how to get the documents, and what to do if you can't get them.
posted by majikstreet at 11:55 AM on May 16, 2008
posted by majikstreet at 11:55 AM on May 16, 2008
That's funny; in Illinois I was able to get my father's birth certificate simply by asking and paying a small fee. So it varies by state and by time.
Re-emphasizing what I said above, although your ability to get your father's data may be limited, I expect he is legally required by the divorce decree to provide reasonable documents or information when needed for your benefit. So you may get what you need simply by asking, and I'd suggest going through the lawyers. If he were my client I'd say, "Hey, just send me a copy of your driver's license and birth certificate, it'll be easy and that'll be the end of it."
Good luck.
posted by JimN2TAW at 12:19 PM on May 16, 2008
Re-emphasizing what I said above, although your ability to get your father's data may be limited, I expect he is legally required by the divorce decree to provide reasonable documents or information when needed for your benefit. So you may get what you need simply by asking, and I'd suggest going through the lawyers. If he were my client I'd say, "Hey, just send me a copy of your driver's license and birth certificate, it'll be easy and that'll be the end of it."
Good luck.
posted by JimN2TAW at 12:19 PM on May 16, 2008
Interesting, JimN2TAW. I asked for it about one month ago and was told no. The fees are now $15. When my father was first getting all of the documents for his Irish citizenship in 2002 the fees were more like $8. This is specifically Cook County. I've asked at the Rolling Meadows courthouse and City Hall in The Loop. I couldn't get my own long form birth certificate in Rolling Meadows and had to go downtown.
posted by Bunglegirl at 2:25 PM on May 16, 2008
posted by Bunglegirl at 2:25 PM on May 16, 2008
Actually it was many years ago that I got my father's birth cert. in Chicago . I would speculate that recent privacy and identity theft laws have changed things.
posted by JimN2TAW at 4:13 PM on May 16, 2008
posted by JimN2TAW at 4:13 PM on May 16, 2008
Update from my end of it: you can't ask the embassy (at least in DC) anything. From reading the application it seems as if you could get a notorized statement saying you can't get a document, but when calling them they say you must have EVERYTHING.
posted by majikstreet at 11:46 AM on May 19, 2008
posted by majikstreet at 11:46 AM on May 19, 2008
« Older What is the name of the short story about a... | How to become a DB Admin in two weeks? Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by brujita at 1:45 PM on May 15, 2008