delicious or deadly snack?
May 12, 2008 7:33 PM Subscribe
BotulismFilter: Should I eat this?
I put some sun dried tomatoes in a jar and covered them with olive oil (the theory being that it would make them like the ones at the store. this was before I learned that I could just boil them). They've been sitting unopened in my pantry since October.
My friends suggested that it might be a bad idea to eat them because they've been sitting in a jar in my pantry for six months. I think that the olive oil makes them safe. Somehow.
Are they safe to eat?
I put some sun dried tomatoes in a jar and covered them with olive oil (the theory being that it would make them like the ones at the store. this was before I learned that I could just boil them). They've been sitting unopened in my pantry since October.
My friends suggested that it might be a bad idea to eat them because they've been sitting in a jar in my pantry for six months. I think that the olive oil makes them safe. Somehow.
Are they safe to eat?
is the jar like reeeeally sealed?
Botulism is anaerobic, so with any kind of home-saving-this-for-later sort of laziness, you might not have botulism [in specific] to worry about.
unless - maybe I read this wrong. Are they drowning in oil?
It doesn't matter; I think you should eat them.
Prove your friends wrong!
posted by Acari at 7:48 PM on May 12, 2008
Botulism is anaerobic, so with any kind of home-saving-this-for-later sort of laziness, you might not have botulism [in specific] to worry about.
unless - maybe I read this wrong. Are they drowning in oil?
It doesn't matter; I think you should eat them.
Prove your friends wrong!
posted by Acari at 7:48 PM on May 12, 2008
Why take a chance? Unless you properly canned them (you don't say if you made sure the container was sterile, then vacuum-sealed it) they just might kill you. It's fair to say that's not ideal.
posted by heathergirl at 7:49 PM on May 12, 2008
posted by heathergirl at 7:49 PM on May 12, 2008
I think that the olive oil makes them safe. Somehow
I have no idea why you would think that. The oil is probably the riskiest ingredient in that jar. If they were brined or cured in salt or vinegar, that might help. Also is the jar properly sealed? As in you used proper canning methods? If not, I would definitely not eat them.
posted by boomchicka at 7:50 PM on May 12, 2008
I have no idea why you would think that. The oil is probably the riskiest ingredient in that jar. If they were brined or cured in salt or vinegar, that might help. Also is the jar properly sealed? As in you used proper canning methods? If not, I would definitely not eat them.
posted by boomchicka at 7:50 PM on May 12, 2008
I used to agonize over this kind of thing, but I eventually realized that sampling a bit of culinary delight is never worth risking an ordeal from food poisoning. If you can't assure yourself that it's safe or you get conflicting info, then that should be your prime directive.
That said, the kind of canning you did is certainly conducive to botulism, and though tomatoes aren't really a culprit, they aren't immune to it either.
posted by crapmatic at 7:52 PM on May 12, 2008
That said, the kind of canning you did is certainly conducive to botulism, and though tomatoes aren't really a culprit, they aren't immune to it either.
posted by crapmatic at 7:52 PM on May 12, 2008
I'm usually happily pro-eat it in these threads. And even I'm saying, "Duuude. Do Not eat."
posted by desuetude at 8:05 PM on May 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by desuetude at 8:05 PM on May 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
There where only 23 cases of foodborn botulism in the USA (1999)* so I wouldn't over worry it too much... open the jar, smell it...if it doesn't make you sick, try one, if you're fine the next day, eat the rest.
posted by furtive at 8:15 PM on May 12, 2008
posted by furtive at 8:15 PM on May 12, 2008
You can't smell botulism. Also, it is not going to make you puke like regular food poisoning. You may miss the mild signs. I mean, what's the upside here?
posted by unSane at 8:25 PM on May 12, 2008
posted by unSane at 8:25 PM on May 12, 2008
If they were completely dry, I wouldn't worry about it. If there was moisture in them, then they probably turned moldy. And you'd see it.
posted by O9scar at 8:25 PM on May 12, 2008
posted by O9scar at 8:25 PM on May 12, 2008
I'm sure you can read wikipedia on your own, but let me extract the fun parts for you:
Botulinic toxin is one of the most powerful known toxins: about one microgram is lethal to humans. It acts by blocking nerve function and leads to respiratory and musculoskeletal paralysis.
...
The respiratory failure and paralysis that occur with severe botulism may require a patient to be on a breathing machine for weeks, plus intensive medical and nursing care. After several weeks, the paralysis slowly improves.
...
Botulism can result in death due to respiratory failure....A patient with severe botulism may require a breathing machine as well as intensive medical and nursing care for several months. Patients who survive an episode of botulism poisoning may have fatigue and shortness of breath for years and long-term therapy may be needed to aid their recovery.
I think a new jar of store-bought sun-dried tomatoes is in order. We're not just talking about a couple days of diarrhea or something (though that would be bad enough). Dying from respiratory paralysis is not something you get over.
posted by vytae at 8:39 PM on May 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Botulinic toxin is one of the most powerful known toxins: about one microgram is lethal to humans. It acts by blocking nerve function and leads to respiratory and musculoskeletal paralysis.
...
The respiratory failure and paralysis that occur with severe botulism may require a patient to be on a breathing machine for weeks, plus intensive medical and nursing care. After several weeks, the paralysis slowly improves.
...
Botulism can result in death due to respiratory failure....A patient with severe botulism may require a breathing machine as well as intensive medical and nursing care for several months. Patients who survive an episode of botulism poisoning may have fatigue and shortness of breath for years and long-term therapy may be needed to aid their recovery.
I think a new jar of store-bought sun-dried tomatoes is in order. We're not just talking about a couple days of diarrhea or something (though that would be bad enough). Dying from respiratory paralysis is not something you get over.
posted by vytae at 8:39 PM on May 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Wow. This is absolutely a text book case of how people get botulism. Home preserving in oil is a perfect environment for it. Sure, there were only 23 cases in 1999, but 10 of them probably had a back story like this!
posted by crabintheocean at 9:11 PM on May 12, 2008
posted by crabintheocean at 9:11 PM on May 12, 2008
There's a lot of misinformation in this thread.
Botulism thrives in an anoxic environment like the one you helpfully provided by immersing the tomatoes in olive oil.
The oil is probably the riskiest ingredient in that jar.
Wow. This is absolutely a text book case of how people get botulism. Home preserving in oil is a perfect environment for it.
Botulism requires ALL of the following conditions to grow:
temperature above 40F (possibly now 36F)
pH above 4.6
available water (not bound to high sugar or salt content)
anaerobic environment
Sun-dried tomatoes, provided they were properly dried, have too little water and too low of a pH to support botulism growth. Oil has a very low water content too, so it doesn't support bacterial growth. It goes rancid by contact with oxygen over time.
The "preserved-in-oil" botulism problem happens when you try to preserve high-moisture vegetables in oil. Garlic is the only proven culprit, but any other non-dried vegetable in oil is a possible source.
Provided your tomatoes were well-dried, and you didn't add any non-dried vegetables, and you didn't add any water-based liquid (other than vinegar), there's nothing in there to support botulism growth. Rancidity, on the other hand, is a possibility here. Not very tasty, but not going to kill you either.
posted by TungstenChef at 9:44 PM on May 12, 2008 [3 favorites]
Botulism thrives in an anoxic environment like the one you helpfully provided by immersing the tomatoes in olive oil.
The oil is probably the riskiest ingredient in that jar.
Wow. This is absolutely a text book case of how people get botulism. Home preserving in oil is a perfect environment for it.
Botulism requires ALL of the following conditions to grow:
temperature above 40F (possibly now 36F)
pH above 4.6
available water (not bound to high sugar or salt content)
anaerobic environment
Sun-dried tomatoes, provided they were properly dried, have too little water and too low of a pH to support botulism growth. Oil has a very low water content too, so it doesn't support bacterial growth. It goes rancid by contact with oxygen over time.
The "preserved-in-oil" botulism problem happens when you try to preserve high-moisture vegetables in oil. Garlic is the only proven culprit, but any other non-dried vegetable in oil is a possible source.
Provided your tomatoes were well-dried, and you didn't add any non-dried vegetables, and you didn't add any water-based liquid (other than vinegar), there's nothing in there to support botulism growth. Rancidity, on the other hand, is a possibility here. Not very tasty, but not going to kill you either.
posted by TungstenChef at 9:44 PM on May 12, 2008 [3 favorites]
See here and here towards the bottom about sun-dried tomatoes in oil.
posted by TungstenChef at 9:47 PM on May 12, 2008
posted by TungstenChef at 9:47 PM on May 12, 2008
I buy sundried tomatoes in oil. The websites of those companies say that you should consume opened, leftover *refrigerated* product within a month. Although they probably give themselves a wide margin, they're talking refrigerated product. You're talking about home prepared stuff sitting in your pantry. Chuck.
posted by acoutu at 10:42 PM on May 12, 2008
posted by acoutu at 10:42 PM on May 12, 2008
Well, if the oil has had much contact with air, it's possibly oxidized and become rancid. That alone would keep me from eating it, because rancid oil is disgusting.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:03 PM on May 12, 2008
posted by oneirodynia at 11:03 PM on May 12, 2008
Do not eat.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 11:07 PM on May 12, 2008
posted by The Light Fantastic at 11:07 PM on May 12, 2008
If you feel the need to ask, "Should I eat this?", I would say no, don't do it. No matter what the circumstances.
posted by wv kay in ga at 11:33 PM on May 12, 2008
posted by wv kay in ga at 11:33 PM on May 12, 2008
Having read TungstenChief's link, I'm going with "not going to kill you, but really yucky," and also, "please stop experimenting with home preserving until you do some research, because I would be somewhat sad in the abstract if you died."
posted by bettafish at 11:35 PM on May 12, 2008
posted by bettafish at 11:35 PM on May 12, 2008
No. Of course not. You could die.
And sun-dried tomatoes are awful anyway.
posted by electric_counterpoint at 12:16 AM on May 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
And sun-dried tomatoes are awful anyway.
posted by electric_counterpoint at 12:16 AM on May 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Although it is not that common, the government takes botulism pretty seriously. They shut down the entire plant implicated here for several months at a cost of tens of millions of dollars.
posted by TedW at 4:33 AM on May 13, 2008
posted by TedW at 4:33 AM on May 13, 2008
There's a lot of misinformation in this thread
Oil has a very low water content too, so it doesn't support bacterial growth. It goes rancid by contact with oxygen over time.
I never said the OP would get botulism. I said the oil was at the most risk of not being fresh, which is true, as the jar isn't properly sealed and probably does have some contact with air.
posted by boomchicka at 6:27 AM on May 13, 2008
Oil has a very low water content too, so it doesn't support bacterial growth. It goes rancid by contact with oxygen over time.
I never said the OP would get botulism. I said the oil was at the most risk of not being fresh, which is true, as the jar isn't properly sealed and probably does have some contact with air.
posted by boomchicka at 6:27 AM on May 13, 2008
Botulinum and Botulinum toxin do not survive thorough cooking. If you make sure that the tomatoes and oil are thoroughly cooked through and through, for a long time, you will live.
posted by Pollomacho at 6:30 AM on May 13, 2008
posted by Pollomacho at 6:30 AM on May 13, 2008
I don't really think that botulism is a big worry here. I think that rancid oil disgustingness is pretty safe bet, though.
posted by desuetude at 6:41 AM on May 13, 2008
posted by desuetude at 6:41 AM on May 13, 2008
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Google for 'botulism oil' will make your hair stand on end. Most of the results are about garlic-in-oil but I think tomatoes-in-oil are in the same ballpark.
posted by unSane at 7:46 PM on May 12, 2008