Ambition vs. Altruism

May 8, 2008 6:16 AM

Ambition vs. Altruism: How do you know if you are going "too far" in terms of self-interest or self-sacrifice?

Do you ever make long-term goals and plans for yourself (like wanting to make X amount of money, or writing a book, or traveling, etc.), and then end up questioning yourself, thinking "Aren't I just being overly selfish?" "Shouldn't I concentrate on helping others in some way instead?"

I find that when I make any type of "grand plan" or long-term ambitions for myself, I will hear this "accusatory voice" inside my head.

Has anybody else felt this type of conflict, between ambition and altruism? Have you managed to resolve it in your life? Is the internal conflict just something you live with? Or maybe my problem is that I'm just being too damned self-absorbed? And the voices are right? I would like to hear your perspective.

Some background: I'm not sure where the accusatory voice telling me to "help and serve others" is coming from, but I have a couple of guesses as to its origins. I grew up in an environment where self-sacrifice was praised, lauded, and encouraged. I am also female, so I also wonder if I've simply absorbed something that has traditionally been encouraged in women.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good thing to be both self-interested AND to help people. But this voice inside bothers me, because it seems like its telling me "you can't be both." And that I shouldn't just be helping people as a side activity, but making it MY MISSION IN LIFE.

I don't know to what extent I should heed this voice to be altruistic and abandon my person ambitions. I don't know whether it's a voice that comes from my own intuition, or has been conditioned in me by others.

I have a feeling this might be a cultural issue, and that other women, particularly American women, might know where I'm coming from. But I could very well be wrong. In any case, I welcome anyone's and everyone's perspective here.

Sorry if this is rambly and jumbled...I hope I have conveyed a sense of my problem here: not knowing whether the guilt I feel from having personal ambition is justified or not.

posted by uxo to human relations (22 comments total)

Anytime you start negatively affecting people that you love by following your ambitions...you have gone too far. Anytime the byproduct of your ambitions negatively affect people that are not aware of what you are doing then your ambitions have gone too far. If the only one being affected by your ambitions is you...then you shouldnt have an issue.
posted by The1andonly at 6:31 AM on May 8, 2008 [2 favorites]

Feeling guilt over choices you make that really affect only yourself and how you spend your time is a little bit extreme.

I suppose if your ambitious side is saying, "I want to make a lot of money as a war profiteer and drive a Hummer," then that's one thing. But how does writing a book seem selfish? Certainly it's a solitary process that takes a lot of time - time which you could spend scrubbing rocks after an oil spill - but the end result is something that could possibly bring enjoyment to others.... so... that type of example doesn't seem entirely selfish, certainly not something that should illicit feelings of guilt.

And there shouldn't a conflict between your ambitions and your larger sense of the world you share with other people (which you call, I think incorrectly, altruism.) Indeed, I think people who go through life without thinking in this fashion are missing some vital component of what it means to be human. It's good that you're thinking outside the confines of your own skull.

Sometimes I feel guilty for wasting time, for goofing around when I should be doing something more productive. But, I'm not sure that's the same level of grief that you're experiencing.

Perhaps moving forward you should focus on splitting the difference between these two internal and external goals. If you want to do something for yourself, like have a successful career, then perhaps tell yourself that's ok as long as your job ultimatly does something that makes the world a little better...
posted by wfrgms at 6:35 AM on May 8, 2008 [1 favorite]

Success in your own personal life can be translated to ability to help others. As you become more confident, known, wealthy you have more to share, and are more able to entice others to join you.
posted by netbros at 6:36 AM on May 8, 2008 [2 favorites]

How about this one? How much should I give? If I am earning enough that my family is comfortable, and I know there are people dying in the world from lack of food or water, shouldn't I be giving more? Do I base my response on how much my family give, how my church suggests I give, the national average, or do I give until it hurts, until I have barely enough to live? What is the good and moral thing to do?

Ethicists talk about this and sometimes I make sense of it, but I still don't give. Academics in the field of human psychology talk about this, and they say, people who contribute feel happier. And then I wonder, if I know that, and I give in order to be happier, then I am being altruistic after all?

Over time I've made some rules of thumb that I can be comfortable with. Things like, give a hand if you see someone needs one and you won't be damaged by it. That's really broad, but it means I'm quite helpful at work, but perhaps less kind late at night in dark alleys. It works out well enough that I am not racked by guilt.

I think you need to sit down and think about what your values are, and what you are prepared to do. Then, when that accusatory voice comes along, you can say, shut up, I'm doing my bit, the XYZ charity. As time goes on, I suspect that little voice will get quieter, that is, if you've correctly identified your values.
posted by b33j at 7:18 AM on May 8, 2008 [1 favorite]

Years ago someone told me that the best way to serve the world was to do exactly what makes you happy. If everyone followed their bliss, instead of doing what they believe they "should" do, the world would be a happier place.

Joseph Campbell said that every knight has to find his own path through the forest. Listen to the music inside of yourself and find your unique path. You give to the world when you are truly, authentically yourself.
posted by frumious bandersnatch at 7:29 AM on May 8, 2008 [2 favorites]

How do you know if you are going "too far" in terms of self-interest or self-sacrifice?

A useful thought experiment would be to imagine a child of yours being in the same situation. What would you want them to do?
posted by tomcooke at 7:29 AM on May 8, 2008 [1 favorite]

(If you don't have kids and find it difficult to imagine one, anyone else you love will do!)
posted by tomcooke at 7:31 AM on May 8, 2008

I know where you're coming from. I have this same internal debate. I remember as a knowitall teenager angrily chastising my parents for not selling their house and all of their things and giving all the money to poor people. I can still see it in my head. I was sitting at their table in their kitchen in their house eating their food with their money in my pocket. Literally. Ha! They countered that since they both worked in education, they were working towards long term betterment of society. Anyway that's just an aside.

I get the feelings of guilt and a sort of desperation to do something. There's too much stuff out there that needs fixing. Millions or billions of your fellow human beings are in dire situations. Starving, oppressed, sick, poor, exploited, neglected, harmed, abused, ruined, being burned to a crisp as "collateral damage" somewhere, and none of it their fault. Shouldn't each of us drop whatever we're doing right now and rush out as fast as we can and make this all stop? Shouldn't we do that before we do anything else? Don't we owe that to others who have just had the random misfortune to be born into it while we got off easy and landed in the suburbs? How can we just sit back and be comfortable? That's what I think about. What if it was me? What if it was my family? What if we had no way out? Think how that would feel. How could others just sit by and eat bonbons in front of their Tivos while we suffered and died on an unwatched channel? These thoughts roil inside me. They led me into the field of betterment in general. But I still want good things for myself, and I've found that I can neglect myself.

I can't solve the issue for you, but one piece of advice I can give you is to allow this argument to be unresolved and ongoing and continue to move ahead with your life, doing the best you can at any given moment and revisiting the issue along the way. Don't feel punished or guilty for living however you happen to be living at the time. You can't fix everything yourself. But do continue to think about it. The temptation is to Resolve This Once And For All so you can move forward in life unconflicted. But life is messier and has more shades of grey than we'd like, so that's not going to happen. There is a certain letting go that is required in order to live an untortured life. It's imperfect but necessary. You might counter, "but you're just rationalizing your own comfort and self-interest." Maybe. But I also know that I have to live and that I want and deserve to feel good. There has to be a balance of practicality and of self-interest vs. other interest. Maybe each of us should be Mother Theresa and give until it hurts and then give some more. Maybe that's what would finally lift the bulk of humanity out of unnecessary suffering. But what might also work is if each of us pursues a workable balance of self interest vs other interest.

Another angle to consider is that wealth means freedom and power to influence the world around you. Look at Bill Gates. Richest guy in the world at one point and still near the top. He pursued wealth and got it. And now his foundation has helped more people and done more good in the world than ten thousand of me could ever do. And his business interest has undeniably helped the world too even though it enriched him. So who's to say that if you make a lot of money you can't use it to help people or that whatever you pursue in self-interest can't also help people? You could write a book that helps people. Your travel could open other people's eyes to what happens elsewhere. Try to find a way to make what the things you like to do also make the world better in some way. And when it's time to enjoy yourself, let go and enjoy yourself.

Ultimately I think you need to accept that you deserve to enjoy life. That can feel selfish but I think it's essential to finding peace in your life. You only get one life as far as we know, so make the most of it. Make it shine. Everyone has a responsibility to manage his or her own fate. To the degree that you've been lucky, share part of what you have with those who got an unlucky draw, and encourage people around you to do the same. But you don't have to give it all. A happy and fulfilled you can do more good than a miserable martyr you in my opinion. Know that you will die a long time from now and that loads of people will still need help, but that others will be there to give it. Do your part - it's not a defeat or a crime if you don't solve it all.

But listen to the voice. Not everyone can hear it. So the world needs people like you. Balance balance balance.
posted by Askr at 7:54 AM on May 8, 2008 [6 favorites]

Guilt is not a good reason to help people. No matter how much you help, the guilt monster is never satisfied because you could always be doing more. Plus, no one wants to be pitied, and people can sense that you're just doing something out of a sense of obligation, which likely makes them feel worse. A good friend told me "don't should all over yourself." It's really only a gift if it's freely given. Compassion is the right reason to help people. What moves you?
posted by desjardins at 8:22 AM on May 8, 2008 [2 favorites]

Related Question

Helping others and helping yourself aren't mutually exclusive. Realize that this is a sticky question and that you should never feel guilty for asking it and that you're not alone.
posted by theiconoclast31 at 8:32 AM on May 8, 2008 [1 favorite]

I feel like a lot of people go into the helping professions because it alleviates their own guilt or boosts their self-esteem. But they constantly self-promote by saying things like, "I could be making more money" or "should be making more money" and stuff like that. They describe themselves as martyrs. In the end, though, they talk far more about themselves possessing an immaterial wealth, that it's hard to deny that they too are self-interested. Then they start talking about how they are helping people instead of making money and when you look at whether or not they are really helping people, or the programs they are a part of are really helpful to people, you might see that most people without real skills just think they're helping people with their counseling and social work and fundraising for programs that don't work. They're really just making an uneducated mess.

I don't believe that true altruism really exists and, also, having worked at a couple of nonprofits, I feel like they are dumping grounds for people who can't do anything else.

And, to be honest, being self-interested makes a lot of sense. You make a lot of self-interested decisions on a daily basis. You have to. You don't know what other people really need. You don't know anything or have a chance at knowing anything better than yourself.
posted by onepapertiger at 8:37 AM on May 8, 2008 [1 favorite]

immaterial? I meant, intangible...
posted by onepapertiger at 8:42 AM on May 8, 2008

I can so, totally, completely relate to your inner conflict. You're not the only one. I can't add much to the good advice above, but I do keep this quotation posted in a place where I see it daily. It helps me reframe the question from one of living selfishly vs. altruistically, into a question of whether I'm living a good life.

Don't ask yourself what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive.
- Harold Whitman
posted by vytae at 8:47 AM on May 8, 2008 [4 favorites]

Physically Human’s are week, slow, and fragile. If primitive people had not helped each other out, our species would have never advanced. I believe we evolved to be altruistic and ambitious in good balance with each other. From the time ‘person A’ who was good at making spears and ‘person B’ who was good at using spears teamed up we’ve been better off as a species.
I think greed is bad. It leads (me at least) to envious, jealous thinking. Only one person can acquire the most shit, everyone else in that game is left with someone above them.
I had this ethics debate with myself a lot over the years. My advice is to find something that you believe should be better and dedicate some amount of time and money to making that thing better. But It doesn’t have to be a full time job.
posted by French Fry at 9:05 AM on May 8, 2008 [1 favorite]

I'm a big believer in the principle that our lives should have meaning, and that meaning is most likely to come about by being of service to others, but that doesn't sound AT ALL like what you're talking about. I'd have a very different answer if you had popped in here to say, "I'm trying to decide between taking a high-paying job at Exxon-Mobil and a low-paying job in the social services," but you say that you feel guilty and selfish when planning for the future at all, and thinking about vague goals like wanting to make X amount of money, or writing a book, or traveling.

I think you're probably right that there's some cultural conditioning going on, particularly if you're a woman who grew up in an environment that really lionized self-sacrifice. Here's the thing, though: ambition and altruism are NOT opposites. Greed and altruism are, but not ambition and altruism. You think that Gandhi didn't have ambitions about changing the world? Do you think MLK Jr. was particularly self-effacing? (Do you think either of them would have been particularly effective if they had wanted to shrink from the limelight?) In the later part of your question you re-phrase it as being "self interested vs. helping other people," but I think it's really telling that the first word that popped into your head (and your title, and your question) to describe that was ambitious, and that these feelings pop up when you're trying to plan for your future.

Ambition is not a bad thing, although there's a lot of people out there that believe it's unbecoming for a woman to display it. I think your desire to go out and do good is an excellent character trait, but your fear of ambition might get in the way of doing the good that you could achieve. Re-read biographies of people that have done amazing and world-changing things, and think about whether being ambitious and going after your goals full-throttle is really such a selfish thing. I can guarantee you, none of the people who changed history just somehow stumbled into a position where they could do so by accident. Ambition can be used to either good or evil ends, but in and of itself is only a neutral trait that amplifies the goodness (or evilness) of what you're doing--so an ambitious do-gooder who pro-actively plans for the future will accomplish more good than a self-effacing do-gooder.

I think it's no accident that the same type of people who believe it's unladylike to show ambition are the same ones who think women should occupy themselves almost solely as wives and mothers. The particular types of messages that are sent to women about this are really effective at keeping women out of the public sphere. Look at what you wrote, above: you're having problems even PLANNING in a vague way for your future, to travel and write and go out and do things, because you feel guilty about whether it's okay. That seems like a recipe for burying your own needs and desires deep inside and ending up a resentful, angry doormat. Please don't do that. You deserve a lot better.

I think you need to spend some time disentangling the messages you've internalized about having a noble purpose in life from the messages you've received about how women are supposed to be self-sacrificing. They are really, really not in opposition.
posted by iminurmefi at 9:46 AM on May 8, 2008 [1 favorite]

This might be a way for you to be a bit avoidant. I am like this-there is always some reason why I shouldn't make long-term goals.

My favorite thing to say to myself is that something will be too expensive/won't make me enough money/most people who try to make a living that way fail/the opportunity cost is too high.

Of course, you can say that about almost anything! Quit my job to go to school? School is too expensive. Work? I would be making more if I had already gone to school. Learn the guitar? I could be learning Spanish to get a better job. Learn Spanish? I could be getting a second job instead. Etc.

It seems rational on its face, but once I examine it, it is obviously a convenient way for me to avoid identifying a long-term goal and, therefore, avoid failing to reach that goal.

I think you might have some of the same issues, because you have picked something that is not really possible--there is no way you can be helping people 100% of the time. Not only that, I suspect if you were to consider helping people 100% of the time, you would probably think "oh, I am not helping the right people." This leads you to you not even try.

I hope this helps!
posted by sondrialiac at 9:50 AM on May 8, 2008 [3 favorites]

I think you're right when you say that this feeling that you have to be altruistic and put helping others over being ambitious is something that you have internalized as a female in this society. To give you an example of how pervasive this attitude seems to be read this recent blogpost at Feministe. It's about a recent article about a female weightlifter who is preparing for the Olympics. The post pointed out the the article framed the issue in terms of her conflict between being the mother of an autistic child and a champion weightlifter. Further it framed her preparation for the Olympics as being a "selfish" pursuit, in fact quoting her coach as saying, "You need to be selfish now." While this an interesting angle for an article, I think the author of the blogpost is correct in pointing out that is also an angle that would never have been pursued when writing an article about a male weightlifter or athlete. I mean this is a woman who is competing at the highest level in her sport and could potentially bring back Olympic medals for this country, and this is seen as being a selfish thing?
So I think you need to fight back against this framing of having personal ambitions as being a selfish thing. Wanting a good job and wanting to make it big in your job or other pursuit is no more selfish for you, as a woman, than a man. I agree that helping others should be an ultimate goal for everyone, male or female, but there's more than one way to do that, and often much easier to do that once you are yourself in a position of personal power. To give you an example, my mother has always been ambitious and unashamed of it too. She also is a person who really really likes helping people. However I think that she would find it much harder to help people and really make a difference in people lives if she weren't in the highly respected, policy-making position she is in now. So give yourself the freedom to have your ambitions, but don't sacrifice your principles in service of those ambitions. Keep helping people and being altruistic at the back of your mind, so that whenever you get a chance, you can.
posted by peacheater at 9:55 AM on May 8, 2008 [1 favorite]

You might be inspired by the stories and advice in Overcoming Underearning by Barbara Stanny. It does a good job of exposing the messages that American women have been raised to believe and it points out that making money and doing good aren't mutually exclusive.
posted by PatoPata at 10:15 AM on May 8, 2008 [1 favorite]

I think many American women are indoctrinated into the idea that denying one's own desires helps others. It doesn't.

Say you want to write a book. You tell yourself this is selfish, you shouldn't be spending time by yourself writting a book, but spending time with your family, and spending time cooking, cleaning, ferrying the kids to sports, etc. Meanwhile you think about how you wish you could write this book, but can't do it because you have to do all these other things. You're not fully present and there for your family, and in some ways you resent that they don't appreciate your sacrifices, all that you have given up.

There is no prize for denying yourself. Your family won't love you more, or be more perfect, because you didn't write the book. Write the book, get the kids to help out around the house, set up carpooling, cook simpler meals, and you will probably be happier and more present with your family -- meanwhile, your kids benifit from being given more responsibility and having a mom who demonstrates what it means to follow your dreams.

Maybe your book will help people, or you will earn X amount of money and donate some to worthy causes, or you will retire early and do volunteer work, or you will be so busy with work that you hire a cleaning lady who really needs the job. Maybe travel will make you more sympathetic to the problems of others around the world, and you will be inspired to write grants and network with people working to improve medical care in that country. Maybe you will make more of a difference doing what you are inspired to do than doing what you "should" do.
posted by yohko at 12:08 PM on May 8, 2008 [2 favorites]

Two things that have been helpful for me:

1. Recognizing that I am not all-powerful and my responsibility has limits. I would like the world to be free of suffering - no hunger, no poverty, no cancer, no pollution. Am I, personally and individually, capable of achieving that? I am not. I can change the world, but I can't fix the world. Make a commitment to yourself to take some positive action, but at the same time recognize that even if you gave everything you have and ever will have, it won't fix everything. It's recognizing that whatever you do and whatever you give, it's never enough - so the impetus to give over everything to helping others is unrealistic. Realism is not a cop-out. Realism is recognizing that you are not all-powerful.

2. Recognizing that my desires may have more value than I'm giving them. What will I do this evening? I could play my guitar, or I could write a letter to my congressfolk. Which would help the world more? I have a tendency to assign zero or near-zero value to playing the guitar - I mean, it doesn't feed anybody or free any political prisoners or anything - and a tendency to overvalue altruistic actions that society has told me I should do. (Everybody's supposed to write their congressfolk every month, right?) If I really stop and think about it, though, I have to recognize two things: first, that there is value in simply making myself happy (as frumious bandersnatch pointed out), and second, that my assumptions about the value of an act are just assumptions. Will anyone even read my letter to my congressperson? On the other hand, what if I write a song that inspires someone to fight her way out of despair?

Let yourself value the actions that make you happy, and recognize that taking really good care of yourself increases the overall good in the world.
posted by kristi at 12:31 PM on May 8, 2008 [2 favorites]

Let me begin by saying I am immensely impressed by the thoughtfulness behind the answers here. I had to restrain myself from marking every one of them as "best answer."

I don't want to sound even more overly cliche, but thanks to those of you who also chimed in to say you could relate. It really helps to know I'm not alone.

I guess some of you have noted that my perspective sounds "excessive" or "extreme". Thank you for pointing this out. It seems at least part of my problem comes from my desire to do things wholeheartedly and be very focused, whatever it is, to the exclusion of other factors.

Thank you to those of you who are also saying, in effect, "hey, you're a person too, you know. You need to help yourself." And how that in itself brings good to others.

As some of you hinted, I guess maybe I'm also kinda mentally lazy, and want an "easy answer" for something that is more of an ongoing dance, or "balancing act" between two extremes.

And thanks for those of you who brought about how this relates with the question of being a female in this society. Because I really feel this is more than just a "personal problem" and am concerned with how it relates to cultural expectations with being female.

Anyways, I am taking to heart every answer that has been posted here.

I know I am going to keep coming back to this page to review every single response. Thank you so much. I appreciate your answers more than you know.
posted by uxo at 2:04 PM on May 8, 2008

Maybe you shouldn't assume that altruism is even possible.

Not that I necessarily endorse this view, but there are many arguments in support. I think that what you describe as an inner "accusatory voice" is even present is evidence enough to say that you want to help other people (i.e. it would make you happy, serve your self-interest, be of some benefit to you). Besides it's not hard to make a pretty good case that helping other people in some way will benefit you in turn.

I think all of us know or have encountered people who go about their lives with their own self interest in mind, and hasn't there always been some point in our lives and think that people always act selfishly - even if just as a passing thought(?)

A personal example, if you'll bear with me: I tutor low-income inner city kids under the No Child Left Behind Act (they don't pay anything, my company receives government funding under contract). My pay is neither bad or great, but it makes me happy to do my job - so much so, that I''m planning on tutoring these kids for free after the NCLB Requirements have been met. Even without pay, this job would be satisfying. To be honest, the smiles are probably enough to keep me going back.
posted by s01110011 at 3:01 PM on May 8, 2008