Create opening for kiss or wait it out?

May 7, 2008 8:14 AM

I fancy this girl. We've been on 8 dates now. We haven't kissed. Should I make a move, or wait for the 'moment' to arise, or have I been relegated to the 'friend zone'? [long]

I met her in a club, and she later told me that she liked how I wasn't 'touchy' the way other guys are. So whilst I've been dying to kiss her, I've also been trying my best to respect her personal space, and to watch for body language that might indicate that she is ready or keen to be kissed.

The last time we went out to a club, she ended up spending half the time wrapped in my arms with her head resting on my chest as people jostled their way on and off a rather crowded dance floor. That's the most amount of mutually-initiated physical contact we've had.

Otherwise, we talk a fair amount when we meet up, eat lots of ice cream and cakes, but her body language seems rather closed up and conservative. We don't text or otherwise communicate much when we're not meeting up or trying to figure out when is the next time we're both free to meet up, though she has said that she finds it easy to talk to me and that that was another reason why she agreed to go out with me in the first place.

There are factors that might suggest that she is not ready for a relationship or anything close to it just yet: she has just started a rather hectic new job, and she broke up with her previous boyfriend a few months ago. The first time we went out she told me that she wanted to focus on her work, and that she wasn't ready for a relationship.

Yet we've been going out once, occasionally twice a week for the last month or so. I blame the relatively low frequency of our dates on her hectic work schedule that sometimes saddles her with back-to-back night and day shifts. The last time I sent her back, she asked me flat out (because she's that kind of down to earth, direct sort of person) what I thought of her so far, and I basically said that I liked her, liked talking and spending time with her, and that the only thing I didn't like about her was her hectic work schedule that prevented us from meeting up more often (said in a joking manner of course). I'm not the only one asking her out on these dates; she pulls her own weight in that department as well, and also suggests alternative times/days if she can't make the times/days that I suggest.

My question is: should I take it that she's waiting for me to create an opening, or should I wait till I receive stronger and more positive signals from her, or should I begin to reconcile myself to the possibility that this is as far as things might go?

This is my first relationshipfilter question, so please be gentle. :)

posted by anonymous to human relations (54 comments total)

Make a move. Make a move. Make a move. Make a move. I am banging my head on my desk right now over every guy in my life who waited because he was overthinking things or because he was intimidated or because he wanted me to make the first move. If you like her, make a move. If you want to kiss her, make a move.

If you want her as a friend more than you want her as a romantic partner, don't make a move. Otherwise, make a move.
posted by prefpara at 8:24 AM on May 7, 2008 [6 favorites]

And: no one on MetaFilter can read her mind or her body language. Some people are shy. Some people are serious about their personal space. Some people send mixed messages. She knows what's going on in her head, and we don't. So if you want to find out if she's into you, make a move. Or ask her (not really, go for the kiss).

Anyway, obviously, this is all just one person's opinion, take w/ salt.
posted by prefpara at 8:26 AM on May 7, 2008

She had to ask you what you thought of her because, generally, when someone has romantic interest in someone else, they kiss that person. 8 dates without a kiss? Goodness gracious, man. KISS HER ALREADY.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:28 AM on May 7, 2008 [1 favorite]

KISS HER YOU FOOL
posted by klangklangston at 8:29 AM on May 7, 2008 [17 favorites]

Definitely kiss her. Her body language probably seems closed-off and conservative because she's self-conscious due to the fact that you haven't kissed her yet.
posted by arianell at 8:31 AM on May 7, 2008

The friend zone is a pernicious, and I think especially useless, myth. I've slept with nearly all of my female friends.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:34 AM on May 7, 2008

Kiss the girl!
posted by Ostara at 8:35 AM on May 7, 2008 [3 favorites]

she ended up spending half the time wrapped in my arms with her head resting on my chest

I think with that she's clearly let you know it's okay!
posted by brujita at 8:43 AM on May 7, 2008

Dude. Kiss her. If she's asking you what you think of her, it's because she's not sure, because you haven't SHOWN her. Kiss her. :) And have fun!
posted by twiki at 8:43 AM on May 7, 2008

If you're the type that likes rules and specific directions about this type of thing, mine is, kiss them by the second date or don't kiss them at all. Even if they aren't "ready" or "expecting it" or "wanting it" or whatever stupid crap, if they're into you they'll be pleasantly surprised at least. This has never failed me over quite a few dates. I was dropping my current girlfriend off after our second date, and she made what I thought was a show of fishing for her keys in her purse. So I thought, "Heh heh, she wants me to kiss her," and I did. It was great. Then I teased her about it sometime later and she said, "Uh no, I really WAS just fishing for my keys. I thought, 'Whoa, that's a bit forward!' But I liked it!"
posted by autojack at 8:54 AM on May 7, 2008

Yes, like everyone is saying, kiss her.

But also, realize that you are in the pilot's seat at the moment. The fact that you haven't kissed her after 8 dates and yet she's still making time for you means that you have your finger on the trigger, my friend, and you need only to pull it. In other words, you can not miss. You are money.

For this reason I would suggest a short (longer than a few seconds, but not a full-on make-out) kiss. Enough so that she knows she's been kissed, and good, but then stop, smile, and move on to the next item. Then: wait. Don't go for another kiss again too soon. See what she does instead. This stand-offish thing has worked for you so far, so keep using it for all its worth.

The restraint is key and a girl who's willing to wait it out is more than worth the effort. Take things slow but deliberately. And let us know how it goes.
posted by allkindsoftime at 8:56 AM on May 7, 2008 [1 favorite]

The last time we went out to a club, she ended up spending half the time wrapped in my arms with her head resting on my chest as people jostled their way on and off a rather crowded dance floor.

I would like you to picture, if you will, the following:

The Girl is standing under a billboard. The billboard has flashing neon lights and sparkles and gltter. And possibly fireworks shooting out of it. She is looking directly at you, with one hand pointing up towards the billboard, upon which is written in 20-foot high letters that are both made of flashing strobe lights and on fire the words:

JESUS CHRIST WOULD YOU BLOODY WELL KISS ME ALREADY?

I mean, seriously man.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:59 AM on May 7, 2008 [6 favorites]

My question is: should I take it that she's waiting for me to create an opening, or should I wait till I receive stronger and more positive signals from her, or should I begin to reconcile myself to the possibility that this is as far as things might go?

Don't give up before you even try.
posted by 23skidoo at 9:14 AM on May 7, 2008

kiss her you fool

watch hitch. 90/10. you go 90, she comes 10.



just dont end up kissing kevin james and youre golden.
posted by phritosan at 9:17 AM on May 7, 2008

I haven't tried it, but you might find you like the idea on this page - "How to tell if she's ready to be kissed"
(It's really a sort of advertising to get you to buy more of the same, but maybe you'll find it useful in and of itself, without the credit card.)
posted by -harlequin- at 9:25 AM on May 7, 2008

Easy way to find out and quit wondering about it? Make a move.

Once or twice a week for 2 months with the same person is NOT a low frequency of dates. After 8 dates and no kiss, she either REALLY likes you and is waiting for you to make a move, or she likes using you to keep herself from being bored.

Making that first step and risking rejection isn't the woman's "job", that's all your repsonsibility. This is a harsh but true reality of dating for men. She making herself available to you so often should be a good indicator of how she feels about you, though.

Anyway, GO FOR WHAT YOU WANT. Do not ask for permission, do not hesitate. Do not apologize for being a man and wanting what a man wants with a woman he finds attractive. Reach down, grab 'em like you've got a pair and TAKE what you want.
(To a certain degree, anyway - please know the difference between being assertive/confident and overly aggressive first!)

If she digs you, she'll gladly go along. If not, at least you know where you stand.
posted by juicedigital at 9:28 AM on May 7, 2008 [1 favorite]

Eight dates?!

Kiss her, you turkey.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 9:33 AM on May 7, 2008

Adding to the chorus of "make a move". If you're really concerned about seeming pushy, look her straight in the eyes and say "I'd really like to kiss you" and then lean in for the 90/10 thing mentioned above.

You don't want some other guy to come along and kiss her first, do you? Sooner or later she's going to figure you're just not that interested in her (hence her question about what you thought of her - she's feeling you out - I'd never ask "just a friend" that question). Then she's going to give up on you and start looking for someone who makes her feel desired. Don't get to that point.
posted by desjardins at 9:36 AM on May 7, 2008

It seems clear that she likes you, but lots of girls are really shy about initiating phyiscal contact. However, most girls also like to be kissed. Go for it!
posted by SoftRain at 9:37 AM on May 7, 2008

Kiss her. And please follow up and let us know if she slaps your face or kisses back.
posted by Roger Dodger at 9:51 AM on May 7, 2008

As a shy female who appreciates when guys show some respect upfront... kiss her already!
posted by katillathehun at 10:00 AM on May 7, 2008

I am the most myopic, over-thinking, excessively respectful guy in the world, and even I know that you should just go ahead and make a move.
posted by idiomatika at 10:05 AM on May 7, 2008

Go for it....next time you hug find the best way to look into her eyes...and just do it......
posted by The1andonly at 10:07 AM on May 7, 2008

Sure, go ahead and kiss her. Just be prepared for her not reacting quite the way you'd like. After 8 dates she may have decided you're not romantic material and this could just seem strange.
posted by tommasz at 10:08 AM on May 7, 2008

Just another two cents.

KISS HER, for crying out loud!!!!
posted by cachondeo45 at 10:34 AM on May 7, 2008

You know, I'm going to go against the grain a little bit here.

From everything you've said, it sounds as though this girl has some issues. Her "busy" life, her preference against "touchiness". I don't know, maybe those aren't exactly red flags, but she 4 aew g34q9erYPA0Q3UGQ3984Y&$(_ PH=Á•®YES!! KISS HER!! OF COURSE KISS HER! ! 8 DATES?! SHE LIKES YOU!! KISS HER!!

Sorry about that. In all seriousness, though, it sounds as though even if she rejects your kiss (which she won't) you have some solid friend material here. What's to lose?
posted by 2or3whiskeysodas at 10:45 AM on May 7, 2008 [3 favorites]

Just to provide consistency with the number of similar questions over the past week where the genders were the other way around, WAIT AND LET HER MAKE THE NEXT MOVE.
posted by rhizome at 11:30 AM on May 7, 2008

The last time we went out to a club, she ended up spending half the time wrapped in my arms with her head resting on my chest as people jostled their way on and off a rather crowded dance floor.

And then a load of anvils, each labeled "KISS ME!!" fell from the sky onto your head. (Seriously, if she's comfortable getting that close, she wants you to make a move.)
posted by sarcasticah at 11:45 AM on May 7, 2008

Kiss her... but don't expect her to want a relationship. She did say she doesn't want one right now, so she might just want a kissin' buddy. If that's not cool with you then don't kiss her because you'll get more emotionally attached once you start getting physical.

(Man, she's probably kicking herself for giving you that "I like how un-touchy you are" line on your first date...)
posted by np312 at 11:55 AM on May 7, 2008

And please don't ask her for her permission. Eeew. Women love to feel irresistible! Just take her in your arms and plant one. Enjoy!
posted by thinkpiece at 12:04 PM on May 7, 2008

A devil's advocate: Don't kiss her.

But what I really mean is: KISS HER.
posted by jabberjaw at 12:25 PM on May 7, 2008 [1 favorite]

K.I.S.S. H.E.R.
posted by dmd at 12:30 PM on May 7, 2008

You're probably not kissing her because, deep down, you're afraid she'll reject you. Here's the thing: if she's going to reject you, you should figure that out NOW so that you can stop wasting your time with her and move on to someone else. Kiss her, hoping for the best but expecting the worst.

Time to man up. KISS HER.
posted by randomstriker at 12:56 PM on May 7, 2008 [1 favorite]

In sum:

KISS HER: 30 votes
DON'T: 1 vote (possibly joking)
posted by dondiego87 at 1:07 PM on May 7, 2008

I was the girl in a relationship like this when I was 20. This guy and I hung out for a couple of months. I met his mother. We stayed up all night talking. We would hug, he would kiss my hand, there was lots of physical contact...except kissing. Finally I asked him what the deal was. (Never mind why I didn't just kiss him). He said he wasn't ready to get involved in a romantic relationship. There was my answer: any guy who was content to hang out with me but didn't want to kiss me was my friend. He was not, and never became, my boyfriend.

So I cast my vote in the "kiss her" camp: Whether she's into it or not, at least you'll find out how she feels about you.
posted by serialcomma at 1:41 PM on May 7, 2008

It's great that you're respecting her personal space, although the physical contact you've described does sound rather intimate. If you are serious about her - pursue her, chase her as a gentleman. :) It's great that you're actually waiting for the first kiss - that you're actually thinking this through, and being considerate of her feelings wrt this.

Maybe contrary to what some other MeFites here would say or are saying... I suggest:
Don't worry about being relegated to the 'friend' zone. Gain her respect and trust first. If you intend to pursue her, express that to her verbally, and set about winning her over through interaction that isn't physical, but more emotional, more based upon character - and more grounded in solid actions and unbroken promises, as well as honesty and transparency (in other words, virtue). I personally believe a good relationship (incl. a good physical relationship) has some of its foundations in the trust and respect that you build up before you engage in physicality. And imo, physical contact means so much more when you have already invested the effort and love in building up a solid non-physical relationship.

You don't need to demonstrate your seriousness, or rather the seriousness of your intent to pursue her, by kissing her. You can do the same by expressing this verbally, and then by following up that promise and intent to chase/pursue her through getting to know her better, giving her more exclusive access to your time (without requesting she do the same), showing your commitment to her as unconditionally as you can without expecting the same in return. And the usual little things that men do to court women they value: dinner and movie dates on you, finding out her interests and responding to them, really getting to know her heart and responding to it with actions words thoughts, getting to know her family and establishing a good relationship with them... oh the list goes on. :) (And you can find plenty of cool advice on AskMeFi as to how to chase and win over someone you're interested in ;) )
Basically, giving of yourself to her without expectations or demands of her.

I know different people have different values about these things, so I guess - take what you think will work for you. :) But I'm the type that believes in courtship, in dreaming of my first kiss with my future husband as one upon engagement or the altar (old-fashioned, maybe, but one can hope and believe), in taking the time to build a strong non-physical relationship before engaging in physicality (and this can take months and years...). I also believe in stuff like giving a relationship to God, in the man taking the lead and initiative to court the woman, in honouring a woman (that isn't your spouse) by not having intimate physical contact with her... and maybe you may not hold the same values, and so maybe what I'm saying won't be directly useful to you.

Personally, I regret my first kisses with my ex-es because they were so ill-thought-out, and in a sense, so insecure. I wish my ex-es had taken the time to really get to know me more, spend more time with me, pursued me more... before just making the move to kiss me impulsively. To be honest, I think my recent relationship that just ended really suffered and had a very insecure and shaky start because of that aspect. (I'm also the sort that really, really appreciates non-touchy guys, for what it's worth.) My ex-bf kissed me the second time he met up with me - it threw me into confusion; I really wasn't ready and I wish so much that he had valued and respected me enough to wait, and to be more considerate... to take the time to chase and pursue me... instead of sort of just kissing me and then saying "what next?" I wound up becoming very insecure during the relationship because of the hasty way it started, and I was never very sure how much he valued me or wanted me... and in turn, I think I wound up giving him a lot of grief and misery through my insecurity. :(

So if you are serious about her, and if you believe some of the things I believe - wait. Don't kiss her. Tell her clearly what you feel for her, and what you intend to do. Spend time chasing her, courting her, building a real, secure relationship with her, winning her heart and respecting her body - before you kiss her. That way, you are maintaining honesty and transparency in your interaction with her (i.e. you're telling her how you feel about her, that you're serious about her, that you want to chase her and are, mm, submitting yourself for consideration as a potential significant other (or spouse, if you believe what I believe, heh)) while still respecting her physically. (Personally, I believe that respecting her physically is so important in showing her that you really value her and want her; I believe it does incredible things for gaining her trust in you, and for the relationship in the long-term.)

Sorry if I'm sounding a bit repetitive. I know I'm obviously coming from a perspective that maybe not many people have, with maybe-probably a different value system. (heh, that and maybe a lot of grief and regret about the way my ex-r/s turned out... I wish so much he had started it differently, among other things... and I wish I had handled that initial insecurity differently and curbed it somehow, instead of hurting him with it.) Like I said - take what you think will work for you, and her. I love that you value her enough to want your first kiss to be special, and that you're really putting her interests first here. She is lucky to have someone who's being so considerate about the first kiss, and her physical boundaries. :)
posted by aielen at 2:04 PM on May 7, 2008

Is this a kissing thread?

Seriously, this woman has been there. I wasn't quite sure of the signals I was getting from the guy, but enough looked positive that I went for it, and it worked out very, very nicely.

You can feel pretty vulnerable making the first move, but it sounds like there's a damn good chance she wants to be kissed. Yes, she has been seriously cuddly on only one occasion, but for all you know, she may have felt she was flinging herself at you, but when you didn't try anything, she may have gone home feeling foolish. At the end of your next date, just move in sweetly and kiss her.

And for God's sake, come back and tell us what happened.
posted by rosebuddy at 2:48 PM on May 7, 2008

Do it sexy and romantic-like, and then come back and tell us about it.
posted by crunch buttsteak at 3:51 PM on May 7, 2008

MAKE MOVE
MAKE MOVE
MAKE MOVEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

For point of comparison: I have a female friend who never stops bitching about this guy who she's been on N dates with, but who hasn't made a move.

MAKE THE MOOOVVVVVVEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is all.
posted by paultopia at 4:04 PM on May 7, 2008

Christ, nobody should have to put up with that kind of treatment. DTMFA, then run, run far & fast, and never look back. Trust me, you'll reflect on this one day & laugh yourself stupid that you could ever have been with such a heartless emotional vampire.

Oh wait, wrong thread.

KISS HER!!!
posted by UbuRoivas at 6:47 PM on May 7, 2008 [1 favorite]

Otherwise, we talk a fair amount when we meet up, eat lots of ice cream and cakes, but her body language seems rather closed up and conservative.

Oh, man, you are soooo in the friend zone right now. Eight dates and no kiss? Ice cream and cakes and talking? Seriously? I have that kind of "date" with my aunt.

Realize that some (not all!) women use "nice guys" for emotional and friendship support, but when they want to fuck someone, they often turn to the "bad guys". Why? Who knows, doesn't matter. Sounds like you're feeding her emotional and kinda-sorta romantic needs without all the complications that sex introduces. BTW, it's likely that she finds you attractive, but it's also likely that you're simply too much of a..."nice guy". And when she finds a guy who fulfills both the emotional and sexual needs, guess what happens to you? You'll find you get her voicemail when you try to call, and never get a call back. Full disclosure, yes, I've been in this kind of situation, and I was pissed, yes. ....but I'm feeling much better now!

The last time I sent her back, she asked me flat out (because she's that kind of down to earth, direct sort of person) what I thought of her so far, and I basically said that I liked her, liked talking and spending time with her...

How did she respond to this? You opened up to her, but did you ask her the same? What did she say? If there's no quid pro quo in this, then that's pretty damn unfair of her to ask.

So I'll nth the KISS HER, YOU FOOL! suggestion. Man up. Stop wondering when the right moment will happen and make it happen. But know what you want out of the relationship, and if she can't reciprocate, then walk away. Other fish in the sea, etc.
posted by zardoz at 9:47 PM on May 7, 2008

KISS HER!
posted by Xianny at 9:52 PM on May 7, 2008

KISS HER.

(Dude, I'm surprised there was 8 dates without kissing. Most girls I know would think you were "just not into them" if there was no kiss after 2 dates...)
posted by crossoverman at 10:31 PM on May 7, 2008

follow-up from the OP

Dear MeFites, thank you for one of the weirdest dates i've ever been on.

Short answer: No, there was no kissing. But I still have a sneaking suspicion that she is into me.

Long answer, with a tedious level of detail and many irrelevant asides:

I pick her up from work and we head to a movie theatre. I park the car head first into a lot as we continue to make idle chatter about the last time either of us went to see a movie. When a lull occurs in the conversation I reach over and run/entwine my fingers in her hair and gently pull her towards me as I ask: "hey, would you mind if I kissed you now?"

(Note: it's the same thing I normally do when we're in a noisy club and I need to tell her something, i.e. it's not some strange novel means of intrusion into her personal space.)

Her reaction: "HUH? WHY?"

My response (now operating in complete autopilot/cruise control/fight-or-flight): "hey, why not?"

Her response: "SO WEIRD!!!!"

With the autopilot firmly in control of my actions, I laugh it off, say "nevermind" and then as we get out of the car and walk towards the movie theatre I try to laugh it off even more by remarking that it must have been a pretty weird experience for her.

You'd think after that episode we'd just quickly finish the movie and find hasty excuses to segue out of each other's immediate vicinity. But we proceed to pretend the awkwardness doesn't exist, banter in whispers during the movie and she prodded me awake every now and then when the movie sent me to sleep.

Then I keep her company whilst she shops for a few items of clothing, and she takes pictures of herself in the changing room (fully clothed in the articles of clothing she's considering purchasing) to get my opinion, and then moves to asking me to wait outside the changing room so that she can come out and get my opinion.

Then we go for dinner, it's Japanese, and she initiates feeding me bits of her salmon sashimi salad. Having completely given up on trying to interpret the weird and wonderful world of female signal-sending, I dutifully reciprocate.

Then on the way home she asks me why I asked her the can-i-kiss-you question, to which I said that it was (a) because I wanted to, and (b) because the last time I kissed a girl I didn't ask her and she was quite unhappy about the fact that I didn't ask her (true story). She tells me that it was pretty weird because that question just came so randomly, out of the blue.

(I thought it prudent to refrain from correcting her on that point. The question came out of the green. I should know, I put it there.)

Then she asks me WHY I want to kiss her... and after being rather perplexed by that question for about a minute I tell her that I don't quite know how to answer that, and that maybe she should just accept that in this world there will be some guys who want to kiss her and others who don't. (Yes, I was sort of too weirded-out and still reeling from the earlier "SO WEIRD" encounter to give a better answer, and I also wasn't sure if there was any point to giving a more flirtatious response, if I was squarely relegated to the friendzone).

Then we change the subject, I drop her off, and then she texts me to ask me for my MSN contact, so that we can chat some more.

I have no fucking idea what is going on anymore. But I don't really regret following your advice (and thanks for 'em!) because at least now I'm in the deep end and I know I'm in the deep end. The deep end of complete confusion and absolute renunciation of any attempt to make sense of what's happening here.

posted by jessamyn at 7:52 AM on May 8, 2008

1. GOOD FOR YOU FOR GOING FOR IT

2. Thanks for following up and letting us know what happened!

3. :(
posted by prefpara at 8:31 AM on May 8, 2008

Why you want to kiss her:

You would like to be dating her.
It feels good.

That's pretty much it. Sometimes just being kinda open about what you want is good.
posted by klangklangston at 8:48 AM on May 8, 2008

Her response: "SO WEIRD!!!!"

she initiates feeding me bits of her salmon sashimi salad

She tells me that it was pretty weird because that question just came so randomly, out of the blue.

Then she asks me WHY I want to kiss her.

Then we change the subject, I drop her off, and then she texts me to ask me for my MSN contact, so that we can chat some more.

Right, at this point, I'm thinking she's either playing hard-to-get in a very incompetent way, or she's just a cynical bitch, thriving off the attention.

Either way, I might revert to the previous (joking, but not now) advice:

Christ, nobody should have to put up with that kind of treatment. DTMFA, then run, run far & fast, and never look back. Trust me, you'll reflect on this one day & laugh yourself stupid that you could ever have been with such a heartless emotional vampire.

(there's a huge & visceral difference between somebody who wants to be with you, and somebody playing games, or else fucked up for whatever reason. this girl doesn't sound much like the "wants to be with you" version)
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:04 AM on May 8, 2008

Then she asks me WHY I want to kiss her

Okay, now that you've tried to kiss her, you really need to ask her what is going on and what she wants. It seems to me that there is a chance that she might not be as into you as you think. She could either be incredibly unbelievably shy, or she might be totally weirded out by a kiss coming from someone who she never ever would have expected it from. Next time you talk/chat/communicate you need to address this. Don't let it go on for like 8 more dates where each of you has their own ideas about the nature of your relationship.
posted by 23skidoo at 9:11 AM on May 8, 2008 [1 favorite]

After your followup, I'm glad I prefer men.

You definitely need to tell her that you wanted to kiss her because you're attracted to her and you want to date her. Get your cards on the table and be as direct as you can. When I met my fiance, I told him "I wasn't ready for a relationship." What that sometimes means is "I haven't made up my mind about you." But after 8 dates, she's had enough time to make up her mind. So be clear about your intentions and desires, and put the ball in her court. If she is wishy washy back, DTMFA.
posted by desjardins at 10:29 AM on May 8, 2008 [1 favorite]

Hang in there. Give it another try. But if she turns you down again, I think she may have some unresolved issues that might not be worth your time to deal with.
posted by Roger Dodger at 3:19 PM on May 8, 2008

Then she asks me WHY I want to kiss her...

She asked that? I can see her rebuffing the kiss (oh, memories), but why would anyone ask this question? Unless she was looking for a compliment or has self-esteem issues...

But as others have said, talk to her about what she wants - which is so much easier over MSN! And tell her why you wanted to kiss her. Which should make it easier to lead into a kiss next time...
posted by crossoverman at 8:10 PM on May 8, 2008

Please, for the love of Pete, next time, don't ASK her to kiss her, just f*&ing KISS HER! Then you'll avoid all this playing around after the date next time.
posted by SeanMac at 11:02 PM on May 8, 2008 [1 favorite]

It sucks to watch you stumble over your feelings of hesitation, and then cop out by saying that "the last time you kissed a girl without asking, she didn't like it, blah blah blah".

Well, clearly, if the girl didn't want you to kiss her.. and you're not with her now.. what was there to lose when you tried it then? What do you have to lose now? Your dignity? No. You still had it then, and if this one doesn't work out, you'll still have it. Don't let rejection be a personal loss to you. What point is there in mourning something you never had in the first place?

So with that said, maybe this isn't meant to be. I mean, I'm just judging by how manipulative and deliberately ambiguous this chick seems. But honestly, for your own peace of mind, just kiss her. Kiss her right in her damn face, and be done with it already. Whatever happens, happens. It seems like this girl may have some self esteem issues and is feeding off your constant affection and attraction to her... or maybe she's just sort of shy herself and doesn't know what to do. But either way, people kiss each other every day, for their 1st time or their 1,000,000th time, and you need to spend a LOT less time thinking about it and MUCH more time actually doing it! Do this, and damn it, feel confident in yourself and what you feel! Quit psyching yourself out already!
posted by crunch buttsteak at 2:28 PM on May 9, 2008

welcome to the world of women who dont really know what they want. Im quite surprised after all that, that you didnt get a kiss out of it. verbalising it was definitely the right thing although you could have gone for asking what she thought of you first, out of the blue is kind of unexpected. You went into that looking for answers and ended up trying to explain yourself to her. still you've got that conversation in hand which isnt a bad thing. and msn is great for conversations that are uncomfortable in person. what you really want is for her to explain why she doesnt want to kiss you. She did a great job of redirecting you last time so you dont want to end up there again. you could take a "can i ask you something?" approach and maybe a "you'll probably think this is wierd but.." dont let her turn it around on you. have some why you want to know reasons. like "you're not sure where you stand". that are fairly black and white. any vagueness gives her the opening.
you've got to have these conversations where everyone understands whats happening otherwise resentment sets in or you fall in love for all the wrong reasons. confused relationships dont go well. If you can deal with this now and get past it thats a good sign. the best relationships i've had/am having are where open communication is established early on. anyways good luck with it.
posted by browolf at 8:49 AM on May 11, 2008