How much should I pay for coding?

May 5, 2008 5:42 PM

How much does web development cost if the design work is already done? I am new to the world of website-making and am lost and confused.

I'm making an educational website, a text archive with six articles about geopolitics. I got a $1500 grant from my university to make it.

Ideally it'll be spare and easy to read -- kind of like mcsweeneys.net if that site had illustrations. I'm writing the text, drawing the graphics, and doing the graphic design. In total it'll be seven pages long plus an intro page (maybe a Flash page); it'll be translated into three languages so I need three mirror sites.

So here are my questions:
1) What is the term for what I need -- do I need a "web developer"? A "coder"?

2) How much should I expect to pay for a project like this?

3) Failing that, can you recommend a non-horrible template I could use to do it myself? (I'd like it to look pretty -- I've been reading Edward Tufte -- but I'm ready to lower my my expectations.)

Thanks, AskMeFi.

posted by hungrytiger to computers & internet (18 comments total)

My first piece of advice -- remove any thoughts of an 'intro page' from your mind.

1. Jobs.metafilter.com - post for a web developer.

2. Your budget dictates that. You could have it done for a pizza and a 32 rack of beer if you found the right local college student.

3. Install wordpress, find a theme for it. If you need help setting up Wordpress as a content management system (CMS) ask another question here (tons of us are doing it). Find a theme that resembles what your vision ins. Make css tweaks to make it match.. or use #2.

Commercial web people tend to charge $75-$100/hr. I have done smaller sites than this, I assure you, for more than $1500.
posted by SirStan at 5:57 PM on May 5

1. Yes, you need a web developer a.k.a. coder: they will turn your design into a working website by using HTML and CSS
2. How long is a piece of string? It depends to some extent on your design, but it sounds like it should only take a few hours of a web developer's time. You could get that very cheaply, but you should really engage a professional who will build it properly. Properly in the case of web development means using correct modern HTML and web standards, which will make your site accessible to people not using regular graphic browsers, and to search engines.
3. You can download open-source HTML templates from a variety of sources, but it sounds as if you should use a coder for this project rather than do it yourself

I will not be the first or the last person to say this, but, you really don't want a Flash intro page. This is an outmoded idea, and is bad for technical reasons, search engine optimisation reasons, maintenance reasons, accessibility reasons, and ... because it's an outmoded idea.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 6:06 PM on May 5

Thanks for the tips about jobs.metafilter.com and wordpress! I'll look into both of them.

If you've done smaller sites than this -- not graphic design, just code -- for more than $1500, does that mean that it could take more than fifteen hours to code a project like this?

I know there are too many variables for us to talk about this in any concrete way, but for instance, AskMeFi -- how many hours do you think someone spent coding this page?
posted by hungrytiger at 6:07 PM on May 5

AskMeFi is a very different proposition to your pages because your pages are, as far as we can tell, 'static'. That is, they don't change in any automated way, and they don't require a database, logins, usernames, passwords, security, etc.

How long would it take to code a simple-looking static page like the front page of McSweeneys? Let's say three or four hours because of all the browser-checking one has to do nowadays. Then it would be used as a template and all the data copied into it.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 6:18 PM on May 5

Nthing the recommendation to get good-quality, standards-compliant code. This is especially important since you're doing a site for a university and are using grant money--the university or the grant could require that the site be readable by people with disabilities. The level of compliance required could be minimal, but it's a good idea to check before you look for a coder or buy a template.
posted by PatoPata at 6:19 PM on May 5

I cannot even imagine someone doing a smaller site than you describe and charging more than $1,500 for it. That's highway robbery. There's nobody in the world worth that much for such a simple HTML job.

Seven static pages, when the graphic design is already done and text is already written is a trivial amount of work and even at $100 an hour, shouldn't be more than half of your budget (unless your graphic design is ridiculous and complicated). There's quite literally nothing left to do but slice up the design, write the HTML/CSS, and do some browser checking. This is half a day's work, max, unless the person doing it has no idea what they're doing.
posted by toomuchpete at 6:31 PM on May 5

Seven static pages, when the graphic design is already done and text is already written is a trivial amount of work...

Not seven static pages, twenty one pages (three different languages). Those alternate language pages will also need proper meta language tags so they are interpreted properly. Plus, one assumes that the website will not always be just those seven pages translated three ways. Somewhere down the road, pages will need to be added, removed, and modified, which means a responsible web developer would be providing a holistic solution to meet the ongoing needs of the website, preferably one that will allow the customer to update the content without undue difficulty.

That being said, I should think this could be done well within your budget.
posted by Lokheed at 7:12 PM on May 5

Keep in mind, hungrytiger, that just because you think the graphic design is done, doesn't mean it actually is, at least not to the point where it can become a website. So figure an hour or two to tighten that up, at least.
Some sort of content admin is a good idea, as well. Do you already have hosting?
I could give you a quote if you'd like. Email's in profile.
posted by signal at 7:34 PM on May 5

@ Lokheed:

Thanks for your input.

And it's actually 28 pages -- English plus three other languages. However, I do want those pages to look pretty much identical (the only differences being the text, illustrations, and the little marker which indicates which page in the site you're on). Wouldn't the code be fairly similar from one page to the next?

What's a meta language tag?

@signal:

I don't have hosting. Does content administration mean, like, PR or "messaging"?

I agree that my designs would benefit from the loving touch of a professional graphic designer. What do you mean about design reaching the point where it "can become a website", though?
posted by hungrytiger at 7:54 PM on May 5

Not to put words in signal's mouth, but content administration (or content management) is a system that lets you go in and make content additions/removals/edits. The relative usefulness of this to you (versus your budget) depends on how often you plan to make updates, and whether you can find someone to hook you up this way without skimping on the security aspect to save a few bucks.

Also, a still photo does not a movie make, and the same goes for designs and web sites; there needs to be a means of navigating around, the design has to scale to accommodate text length changes and users who want to zoom text in because their eyes are bad or need to use a screen reader, and there are things you simply cannot (or at least should not) do on the web even though they might look nice on paper. So a design needs a review and likely editing/expansion before you can build a website out of it.
posted by davejay at 8:51 PM on May 5

Wouldn't the code be fairly similar from one page to the next?

That's exactly why you want a template driven site using some kind of content management system (CMS) instead of static pages. With static pages, if decide to change the navigation or add a new page, you need to go back and re-edit every single existing page. It's a maintenance nightmare, and extremely brittle. With a CMS, you make the change in one place and it flows through the entire website.

What's a meta language tag?

It's a tag that tells the web browser what character set is being used. Think about the special characters used in french or spanish, all of the accent marks and diacritics. (I'm not really that smart, I had to look up the word I was reaching for.) It's not necessarily a huge deal, but then again if you are doing internationalization it is better to get it right from the start.

Again, I am not trying to make this more difficult than it needs to be. I am just pointing out that it is also not necessarily as simple as you might think. It's the iceberg principal: you only see the tiny bit that's poking above the surface of the water, and don't realize how much more is lurking below. You could get it done very quickly and cheaply, and then later regret that you didn't spend a little more up front to save yourself the maintenance headaches down the road.
posted by Lokheed at 8:53 PM on May 5

>With static pages, if decide to change the navigation or add a new page, you need to go back and re-edit every single existing page.

There are such things as server-side includes, you know! Not every site needs a CMS.

Only hungrytiger really knows how often the content will need to change, if at all. But Murphy's law says it will, even if you think it probably won't.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 9:21 PM on May 5

This is just a general comment about web development, in case people don't know, but it might be useful in context.

Say, theoretically, you hired out the same job to two different people, one a proper web developer and one an amateur: you would get back two sites based on your design, and looking at them in your web browser, they might be completely indistinguishable.

The differences would be under the hood:

• what a search engine sees when it hits your site for indexing
• what a text-reader reads out when a visually handicapped user tries to access your site
• how the site behaves when that visually-handicapped person tries to navigate it
• what the site looks like when viewed on a iPhone or Blackberry or Palm
• what it looks like in much older browsers like IE4 and Netscape 4
• how slow it is to download
• how fragile the site is when you need to update it, as previously discussed.

posted by AmbroseChapel at 9:46 PM on May 5 [1 favorite]

Does content administration mean, like, PR or "messaging"?

I agree that my designs would benefit from the loving touch of a professional graphic designer. What do you mean about design reaching the point where it "can become a website", though?

Content administration (or 'management') in this context means a system that lets you change the content without affecting the presentation. So the design is locked in and you can move around the actual words and pictures to your heart's content knowing you won't break anything. There are many ways to accomplish this, including full-blown CMSs (Content Management Systems) , blog software like Wordpress, frameworks like RubyOnRails or Django, etc. Which, if any, is right for you depends on what kind of content you have, how often if at all it will change, where you're going to host it and many other factors.

Davejay put the right words in my mouth, a bit back, about design.
posted by signal at 5:08 AM on May 6

As others have said, having a site mocked up in photoshop or whatever doesn't mean the design is done. Translating your design into good, cross browser CSS/HTML is not a trivial step.
posted by jjb at 8:53 AM on May 6

Wow, I know us web developers are an insecure bunch but I think we are making this much more complex than hungrytiger is looking for.

HT, you work for a University right? They have those bulletin board things everywhere, right?

Post this (without the parenthesis content):

Looking for a student web developer for a single project. $500.
Skills required:
- XHTML/CSS standards-based coding (to build the website)
- Understanding of accessibility (to make it so people with disabilities can use it)
- Understanding of Photoshop or other design software (to be able to take your design and slice it up in order to code it)
- Understanding of file management on Unix/Windows-based machines (to deal with how to put it up on a server somewhere)
- Preferred understanding of localization issues. (to deal with the language issue)
- No ongoing maintenance post-launch (you can figure that out later but keep some money in the budget for this possibility)
- No complex database or web application required. (Keep it cheap)

Seriously, leverage the cheap labor that is the college student. They have skills and need money, you have money and need a website.

Now, don't mention that it is _only_ a few pages....or that you _only_ need a simple website. Us web developer types know that it is _always_ more complex than that. Just simply say you need a website built from a design you've already created - show them the design so they can make that judgment call. However, if they do ask for more money be willing to pony up but I wouldn't expect to have to pay more than $700 for college-level work - however be flexible (especially if they grasp the localization issues quickly - this is a skill normally deficient in web devs these days)

Also, as far as hosting goes I bet there is a good chance you can get it hosted on your University's servers. Now, this means that you probably won't have www.hungrytigersawesomeproject.com but you'll have something more like, www.university.edu/dept/hungrytiger/ or something. If you do need to host it somewhere there are several cheap solutions for bothing hosting and domain name registration but honestly I think that is a topic for another AskMe.

Also, several Universities have resources to educate you on the process for projects such as producing an educational video or producing a website, etc. In many institutions this is called something like "Teaching with Technology" or the "Faculty Media Lab" or "Faculty Technology Lab". Search for this around your University website and you may be able to find some in-person resources to assist you with explaining the process, finding the developer, or even doing the development themselves for a fee.

Good luck!
posted by rlef98 at 9:00 AM on May 6

I agree with rlef98 that there ought to be some university or college resources you can leverage for some of your development and hosting needs. AmbroseChapel is also spot on about the differences in a site you might find between a more pro developer vs. amateur developer and the cautionary note I would sound with student workers is that it seems like we're suggesting you're in the position to evaluate your candidates for the job and student workers do sometimes need more guidance and strong project leadership from the person doing the hiring. I think this underscores the need to research what your school might offer in the way of development services in addition to the hosting. That said you may also find folks through mefijobs or rentacoder.com. You get what you pay for in many cases, but (and I know this kind of contradicts what I've said above) placing a similar ad online with what you've put out for student work is only going to give you more options. If folks price out hourly you could probably go as low as 25 an hour and still get decent work depending on your locale, though I'd suggest closer to 50 if your budget can bear it (you may possibly want to cap the hours to preserve some money for other expenditures). I know many folks on the other end of the line who are great at what they do and would quote lower if they are sympathetic to your goals but just don't want to work for a flat fee because it so often is an iceberg as Lokheed notes.
posted by machinic at 3:06 PM on May 6

Let us not overthink a box of rocks.

WordPress is perfect for this. It covers all of rlef's list, is free, and is fast to roll out. The templating will take a coder a very short amount of time to make it look like your design. You can then enter the text in your three languages yourself, and easily upload and insert the illustrations in each.

WordPress navigation will easily manage your mutli-language requirement in a clear and easily managed and understood way.

Just hire a WordPress coder. Really. We're a dime a dozen.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:45 PM on May 6